Suzanne Danielle and Her Career Objective

[00:34]

Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to 500 year diary, the only Doctor Who podcast whose ex husband has fallen head over heels in love with Anthropic's third most recent AI model.

I'm Nathan.

I'm Peter.

I'm Todd, and I'm the curious notion that windspit quarry doubles as an exciting disco mosh pit for this one.

Well, it's the 1st of September, 1979.

It's been nearly 4 years since anyone has seen Terry Nation's name in the opening credits of Doctor Who, and nearly 4.5 years since Davros found cause to regret skimping on the Thesaurus upgrade to the Dalek's vocabulary banks.

But it turns out that there definitely is such a thing as pent up demand, as tonight's an astonishing 13000000 people tune in for one more classic end of part one Dalek reveal.

It's time for us to talk about Terry Nation's final script for the program, Destiny of the Daleks.

[01:49]

All right, before we get on to the terry nationness of this story, I think we need to talk about 2 things.

We're going to talk about the regeneration scene, this is the 2nd Dalek-based regeneration story in Doctor Who's history, and of course, the production itself.

Are we still angry about the regeneration?

Well, I was never angry about this generation.

What do you mean, are we still angry?

I loved it at the time.

I thought, oh, she's trying on different bodies.

It's great.

And the fact that it was, Prince says Astra straight up the bat.

I was just there going, I loved her in the previous story and although obviously Mary's not back.

As a child, I thought, oh, no, she's better than Mary.

Now, now I don't necessarily agree with that opinion, but I really loved it.

And I'm waiting for the big Finnish box set with no thinking, not today.

And her counterparts.

I think it's a good thing that Armageddon factor was the previous story, not Power of Krogs.

We could have ended up with Romana looking out Hag for like the rest of season 7, season 18.

[02:54]

Or Thrawn, genius of technology. fallen into that one as well.

Like, you know, with the we've got all the new regenerations that everybody has the light and then suddenly boom, it's just them.

And I can't remember when, I'm probably read it in something where it was sort of like, like, she's just got regeneration control and she starts with this body and then she flicks through and then her final version is there at the end.

So she hasn't used all those regenerations still just the one.

No, didn't you think at the time, how old were we, Nathan?

I was 12.

Yeah. 1980 this was shown only a few months after the UK one.

I just assumed she was doing a choji.

No, seriously, at 12, I thought you were just projecting possibilities.

And I like that Douglas Adams, who, correct me if I'm wrong, wrote most of this. bit of conjecture at the time between Douglas and Terry.

You know, remember, Douglas said, I only got a one page synopsis and wrote the rest myself.

That is such a slur.

Everyone says that about Terry.

But no, from what fan reception anyway, at the time in the journals was that this was one of the Douglas Adams scenes.

[03:57]

Yes, I think so.

Yeah, definitely. just feels it.

It's the trying on clothes thing.

You know, the arms are a bit long, something that's sensible that will wear well, something that's warm.

Like, it's all being spoken.

Style.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

It's terribly funny to have the doctor call his own costume. silly.

The costume that we end up with it at the end is absolutely spectacular.

That pink version of Tom's outfit is magnificent.

Totally.

Yeah.

For me, one of the things about regeneration is that it is the point of the program where it doesn't really work in the context of creating an imaginary world, it is part of the show that's absolutely dictated just by the real world and the exigencies of production.

It doesn't really make sense.

The more seriously, they take regeneration in the show, the stupider, I think it is.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because, well, just as an idea.

So you prefer time in the Rani's regeneration over the caves of Andrasani's.

I'm, you know, this is why I'm not angry about Billy Piper, suddenly popping up at the end of the reality war, because this is the part of Doctor Who, where the fiction is paper thin, and what's happening is stuff about the production.

[05:10]

And I guess the David Tennant regeneration at the end of the stolen earth as well, for the same reason.

You know, that's much more about how it's going to play out at home.

It's much more about actors, contracts ending, all of that sort of thing.

And here, where Williams has somehow been unable to secure the services of either of the 2 other main cast members for this year in what was baffling to me at the time.

That's why we're getting a regeneration.

So I don't mind that it's played a bit for laugh.

We might want to just reappraise that for the listener who isn't aware of the history just here.

So we know that Mary had to leave because she was pregnant.

But you're saying Tom wasn't signed?

But did she, because she said in interviews, like she said that had she known that they were going to Paris and doing the dialect, she would have reconsidered?

Yeah, so she could have done it.

But it's John Leeson who's not who's not bad.

Cough, Cough.

But he isn't even Tom not contracted.

It's contract roulette. doesn't he sign a contract very late in the day for this season?

[06:13]

Yes, the end of season 16 was the time where it all blew up between Tom Baker and Graham Williams and all had to go to, I think, Graham McDonald's to get sorted out or Graham McDonald's predecessor.

And yes, Tom did sign very late in the day.

So it was all very kind of ropey, and I think I remember feeling at the time because this is, this is 1980.

I'm in year 6.

I am aware that this is a new season.

I'm excited to see it.

But there are all sorts of disappointments, I think, in this for me, even at the time.

And when I look at the story now, I think it's massively enjoyable.

And partly because I'm super basic and like long black and white Doctor Who stories are something that are a bit more of a duty than, you know, a joy.

This, I think, is the story that I enjoy the most of all of Terry Nation's Dalek stories, even though I'm prepared to acknowledge that it is by no means the best.

By no means the best, but Peter and I, we were only eight.

[07:16]

So, like, for me, as a young child, I just remember having, like, wow, it's the new Romana, and then it's the Daleks, and then it's Davros, and, but I did have the revelation in my head that, oh, Davros isn't quite the same, so I knew that it was a recast.

I think it was the 1st time I really sort of hit upon that in a television show, you know?

But I enjoyed it at the time immensely.

I love the Mobellins and how they moved and all that.

I thought that was great.

I think there's a couple of production lapses. absolutely.

But as a template for the show going forward, I think.

People point to the leisure hive.

There's like the quantum leap in production quality between the 70s and the 80s, and it is, but it's not definitive.

You know, we get sorry productions like Megloss and Time Flight following the Leisure Hive.

I think Destiny actually prefigures a lot of that.

It's a very modern production in Doctor Who terms.

You know, obviously there's the steady cam, which is a camera which is mounted on somebody and is on a rig that keeps it literally steady, which means that they can do those fluid kind of moving shots on location, which they use a lot of.

[08:22]

But there's also a lot of very forward looking touches, like having the redheads, lights in shot in the studio.

And that passes, you know, you can absolutely believe that that's something that, you know, the Dalek slaves have set up to sort of light the way or whatever.

And the cameras in the studio are also very mobile.

There's lots of tracking and moving and reframing the characters.

I think it's actually a very assured production, which makes the fact that there is one or 2 lapses, all the more regrettable.

I agree with you, Peter.

Like I was watching parts of it this morning.

And the camera movement, on location around the Nova device or whatever it's called, and just all of that, and all the location work.

I was just there going, this is, you know, there's some money at this or the production values.

I mean, I guess you're comparing it to, you know, inbound studio perhaps from the previous story, but you just feel that there's a lightness to this that I really love.

I think generally speaking, the action is not well shot, but the direction apart from that, I think is really, really quite good.

[09:24]

I think the Daleks look shoddy, like the props are really kind of a bit beaten up and we've talked about that before.

I think Davros's mask is lamentably bad and the performance of David Gooderson, who is the barman in episode one of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

I think they'll do a valiant term.

Oh, no, absolutely.

I think there's a lot to be said for it.

But I want to say the other wrecker is Roy Skelton, whose Dalek voices are Peter Messaline standard terrible.

Like they are really shockingly bad.

And they're boring in monotone.

Wisher is so much better, and obviously the 2 originals are so much better.

But like he just kills the Dalek dialogue absolutely dead, I think.

Do you think, because he seems to be shouting it all the time, doesn't he?

And there's these long pauses, even, like, do not move.

Yeah, he delivers too slowly move.

Like it's it's like, come on, come on.

[10:24]

We need to get on with the type thing.

But back to Goodison, you're right. top of the mask is okay.

And I remember seeing it as a kid when he starts to move his hand and the look and he looked sort of like it.

Like I thought it was the same actor.

And then when he speaks slowly, he's okay.

But as it goes on, it's, I thought he was a voice artist per se.

I think that's the thing, but that's what was on his CV, voice artist per se.

He doesn't say very true, Peter.

He doesn't sound enough like Michael Wisher at certain points and that sort of takes me out of the reality of it.

That's a minor thing to me.

To be fair, he's been in the garage for how many years.

Well, it's the get out of Drow Free card, isn't it?

We exterminate him 4.5 years ago, but you know, oh, there's backup systems.

I'm not what I was for.

There is no excuse for the Davros Mask and the Daleks to be in that state.

It's one of those things which Graham Williams, he gets his reputation for shoddiness because little things like that slip through.

You know, there's no excuse for the Daleks to look so bad and have bits chipped off them.

[11:26]

But I will say, this is my favourite garlic colour scheme.

That kind of that very light gray looks amazing on them, I think, and I'm sad that it doesn't come back.

It might be the best colour scheme of all.

Maybe the victory of the Daleks Ironsides, but yeah, I really like it.

Isn't it funny how Graham Williams during his time in the show, there's not many things that come back.

There's this, and then there's 2 episodes slash 2 episodes of the invasion of time where you've got the Santarans, and they look a bit shoddy compared to the original.

And there's been real no continuity for some time, like we had the master back in season 14, and then you've got to go back again to Tom's 1st season, really.

I mean, the timelines have always been in the background, but it's interesting like over since the 1st year of Philip Hinchcliffe, like with then unit going.

Like there's been less and less Doctor Who continuity, it's here, obviously, the Time Lords and that.

But in the Graham Williams time, there's not a lot of it.

And it's funny, the continuity here too, and we'll get onto it a little bit later, but it is kind of strange.

[12:28]

They don't get it right or they don't get it any more right than they feel that they need to.

One of the things that you taught me about what makes a good production, Peter, is that because the sets are in view all the time and they really make a difference to just how the show looks, the sets here are like the sets in Blake 7.

They are more detailed and more complicated, and maybe a bit more interesting even than Genesis of Daleks.

Like Genesis of Daleks is a very assured production and it just generally much better executed than this, you know, it's in control of its tone.

It kind of knows what it's doing.

But the sets are vastly, vastly more detailed and interesting.

And you've got heaps, more location stuff, you've got the mines, I think, are really amazingly good.

So there's a lot going for it visually.

There's attempts to make the Daleks interesting by shooting them from below, which we've said always works.

[13:29]

The Daleks move around very quickly in studio, the choreography is sort of quite good.

I don't know.

Like there are some problems with the production, but there's so much to like about it as well. think it's a very handsome story.

Apart from those regrettable lapses that we've talked about.

It looks good.

The location filming is all there on screen and I think is choreographed quite well too.

Like you have Daleks moving at different levels, like up on sand dunes and then down in the foreground.

It's things that we haven't necessarily seen with the Daleks before.

I don't get why people have a go at this story about not looking good.

There's one or 2 things that don't look good, but in totality it's very nice.

We must mention that the Daleks have their, what do we call their guns?

There must be a special word for them in the Dalek book.

Their egg whisks set to lower yourself gently to the ground.

Aren't they the fluid neutralisers?

[14:30]

It's interesting what you said, Nathan, about the comparison with Genesis, because I think destiny suffers by obviously it's dealt a bad hand by being a sequel to Genesis, because in that it has to bear comparison to one of the greatest Doctor Who stories of all time.

So it's always going to be a bit patchy.

It does come off wanting in some ways, you know, David Gooderson's performance, obviously.

But I think Terry has supplied all of the elements and the visuals for it to succeed.

And I think it would have succeeded beautifully if a couple more of those things had been realised properly.

See, the other thing too, Peter, is like, you've got the joke of the Daleks unable to get up that shaft, you know, like, they can't fly yet, or the doctor's hat over the eye stalk, and then, and then, and it's those little things that I think that undermine the dark.

They undermine them because they're pinpointing obvious flaws that you try not to pinpoint.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, hanging a hat on it actually is to speak.

Well, it's a thing that you could do.

[15:31]

Yeah.

I don't know.

It is a thing that you can do, but sometimes it's just better to fix the problem rather than hanging a hat on it, hanging a hat on it, is funny and it's knowing and meta and stuff, and that's what the show is doing this season, and this era, but this season in particular.

But in a way all you are highlighting is the big problems with the Daleks.

And part of the repair job that Russell has to do in series one in 2005 is to kind of neutralise all of those flaws that have been introduced over the years that have made the Daleks slightly, not a laughingstock, but like a little bit less terrifying than they were originally meant to be.

And it's also interesting, I think, that episode one is clearly the best of the four.

It's very atmospheric.

I mean, Terry always does great episode ones.

He has that formula where the doctrine co arrive.

[16:33]

They sort of look around and they kind of gather information and deduce where they are.

They get separated from tartars. a dead body that gives them clues.

Absolutely.

A magnodon or whatever.

They have to take tablets for radiation.

That's right.

They get separated from the TARDIS.

They get separated from each other.

There's usually something stalking the companion, which turns out to be a friend.

And then at the end of the 1st episode, you get the big reveal of whoever the monster is, generally the Daleks.

This episode one, like Death to the Daleks episode one, is particularly atmospheric.

It's very effective scene setter.

It was meant to be shot at night.

Obviously, they couldn't afford that, but that would have made more of kind of the talk of zombies and the burial party with kind of, you know, flame and fire and things like that.

And I think Tyson's appearance, which sort of the chalky whiteness to make him look like a zombie.

There's a reason that this story succeeds very well when the Daleks aren't on screen.

But you're right, Peter.

[17:35]

Like episode one, which I watched today, is great.

Like, I just love them walking around and just all the little touches and the camera movements and the chalk on all of the extras, like that dust is really effective.

And I don't think it suffers because it's not at night.

I just think it looks great and holding that the dalek reveal and the scaro reveal to the last few minutes is a good thing and of course we also get our boney M robots coming in.

Well, I mean, I think what's great.

I think what's really incredible about this and what he gets absolutely right is that every all 3 cliffhangers are amazingly good and they all introduce a new element.

So it's 1st we have the Daleks, who have been promised by the opening credits, the show title.

Then we get Davros.

And then the 3rd one is not the moment we discover that the Mofelons are evil, but where we actually see the Mofelons do something evil, where Roman is under threat because of something that the Mofelons did.

And so it's now the Mofelons are on their evil stuff.

[18:38]

Well, when we say Mavelins, we mean Susan, Danielle and her career objectives.

But I definitely, I do find, thank you, Richard.

I do find that one hilarious because like the countdown is like at 34 or something like that.

Like normally it's like 10 seconds to go, but it's quite a, it's quite relaxed.

But actually, that's a good point, the insouciance of the leads.

It's almost avengers like.

And I doubt the time I thought, this is the most Diana Rig and Pat McNee season we've ever had on.

They don't, it's just that edge of being bored.

Yes, correct.

Except Layla does a good screen.

Yeah, Lala does a good scream when she falls down the shaft, then she does some crying when she's being threatened by the Daleks, but it would have said doesn't work, but it does work.

It does.

But it is that rig style impunity where she's kind of aware that she can just walk off, stroll off the set whenever she likes.

And so it's it's not peril.

[19:38]

Like there's a fair amount of stuff where the companion subplot is being stalked by someone horrible who scares the hell out of them and then turns out to be a friend.

We've talked about that.

You talked about that mere moments ago, Peter, but Romana isn't a peril monkey, like Romana isn't really there just to be threatened.

She is an agent in this and she's smart and like a much more chill about things than her predecessors.

I'm going to disagree with you about her acting in the scene where she's interrogated by the Daleks.

I don't buy it now.

I think it's too much.

Did you buy it at 8 though, because that's who she said she was pitching it for?

I might have bought it back then. less so now.

Her screams are much better than Mary's screams.

It does remind me of poor Barbara back in the sync plunger at her.

That really worked.

Wow, incredible.

But I love the different touches with Romana in this.

Like, you know, when we had playing paper scissor rocks. like that was just brilliant as an eight-year-old, like because we could play that.

[20:39]

And she was great.

And I love the fact that Tom runs down the sandbank, but she just strolls in from off camera to the left or whatever.

Like, you know, and then she's so clever enough that she can stop both of her hearts, like, and I thought, oh, no, they can't kill her off.

And then that was so great.

I mean, that's what's so wonderful about her in this story, all those things and her wonderful outfit.

Todd, that mention of rock, paper, scissors.

I think we talked on our Terence Dix season, in state of decay, about Terence highlighting things like continental shift, which, as a schoolboy, I didn't know anything about.

And I was fascinated by it because that was presented to me in Doctor Who.

When I watched this as an 8 year old, rock, paper, scissors, fascinated me because I'd never really come across it before.

And I think Terry, like Terence Dix, has his finger on the pulse of what will thrill a child audience.

And that's a very simple visual way of presenting the dilemma at the heart of the story.

Oddly, also, it kind of Venn diagrams with several interests in my life because I watch a lot of K-pop extra content.

[21:42]

And when K-pop groups are doing their extra content.

They do a version of rock, paper, scissors to kind of decide who's going to be on what team and that.

And, of course, rock paper says is Chinese.

So it's very popular in Korea.

And they call it Guy Bible.

And so when they do the rock paper scissors, they say go Bible, and they do it so quickly that they have already eliminated 5 people and decided their teams while I'm still trying to keep up with who won which round.

So it sort of then diagrams with a lot of my life.

It's really interesting, rock, paper, scissors.

And I think, you know, it's the charm of Doctor Who, that it can present something like that to show children what the stakes are of the story.

In fact, it's been pointed out, I think, by people that it doesn't make any sense.

Like there's no logical next decision and you can't sort of 2nd guess the person based on what they chose before.

Like it just, it doesn't work. showing an algorithm of some kind.

Exactly right.

What's clever about it is that it makes it clear what the problem is, not because that's how rock, paper, scissors works.

[22:47]

But here's the issue.

And I think that what he's doing is last story, it was Nazis versus Nazis.

It was a group of evil, bad people fighting another group of evil, bad people and they'd been fighting forever and they were at an ampas and how are we going to break the stalemate?

Here we have the same thing, but in the meantime, the Khalids have turned themselves into robots, and I don't think that Terry has forgotten what the Daleks are, but they have been turned into robots.

They were programmed by Davros.

So they're not literally robots, but they don't think imaginatively anymore.

They're slaves to their program.

Yeah, because I get hung up on the fact that it's robots versus robots and, oh, they're not robots really.

And then the Movillans, who created those robots?

Like, was there one created and they just decided to create more, like when you start to sort of lord, like that?

And, you know, where are the files of it all as well?

But no, I think that's a good point, actually, that we've made about that.

[23:47]

Unfortunately, what we learned from this story is that a war between 2 groups of robots is actually really a bit boring.

Not as good as a war between 2 groups of horrible Nazis.

And in fact, he again hangs a hat on that.

There's that moment where Commander Cheryl, who is amazing, by the way, pick a striker.

Unbelievable.

Well, get on to him.

Yeah, I think he's one of the best we've ever had.

Yeah, yeah, quite extraordinary.

Cheekbones.

Yes.

It can heal slaves by looking at him.

So he orders Tony a sober to go and sacrifice his life, which is a standard thing like Dortmund or Gary.

Tutonia sober, it generally happens to be.

Yeah, yeah.

And so he has to go and sacrifice his life and he just says, yes, and there's no heroism in it.

There's nothing to admire in it because it's just robots following orders.

So that humanity that's lacking, that everything that makes a conflict noble or interesting or that gives it some kind of moral ways is absent here because it's just 2 big computers fighting one another.

[24:50]

That logical stalemate idea is um, a standard in sci-fi.

I think the original must have been an Asimov story or one of those.

I think it's a nice application in Doctor Who.

I think the question is whether the Daleks are the right fit for that story.

It seems like it should have been the cybermen or something like that. genuinely a genuinely robotic foe.

But I also think that an evolution of the Daleks into machine only creatures who go back to their creator to kind of get some of their organic history back would have been an interesting story, maybe a blind alley in some way.

But I just, I don't think that's the story that we're getting here.

It would have been more interesting if we had.

But I mean, symbolically, and just from the look of things, they have turned themselves into machines.

Like the Daleks don't think like people, they don't have, you know, hunches, they don't take wild risks, they don't feel anything.

They narrow their eye stalks at people anymore.

Yeah, I liked when they used to do that.

I miss when they glint.

[25:51]

And so it is that.

There's that human creativity.

And I like as well that it parallels the doctor and Davros, which is present, you know, a theme present in Genesis of the Dialects, and it does even attempt to give the doctor and Davros some chat time.

But I have to say that it is really just going over stuff that was done in Genesis.

The conversation is almost identical.

It's definitely a reprise to please the audience.

It works for that.

Yeah.

And, you know, there's...

I mean, there's a reason why Moffat stages the doctor and Davros to have chat time during his run because that works so well in Genesis.

It doesn't work quite so well here, and I think it's because goodison is not very good, because the content is not as interesting, but because I think Tom is larking about too much for it.

He does do some serious stuff here.

He does take some of it seriously, but he's doing business during this conversation.

[26:57]

The moment of the moment of sheer aggression and bile when Tom stares at them and stares them down with the darkeners, you know, threatens to kill them all off and says, I'm only having fun because this is disastrous and you are all disastrous and it's not going to end well for anybody.

You can see the rage.

There's a lot of rage in Tom in this one and it's probably because of reasons that have nothing to do with the script, but it really, really works.

I do want to get back to the script.

I know the nub of this is it's a Terry Nation story, but maybe this is a question for Peter.

I remember reading Greaves.

What's his name?

Ken Greve?

Ken Greve.

Yeah, Ken Greaves notes on what was the standard of the script that they got, Williams.

When you say reading his notes, Do you mean in the only interview he gave, which was with me in 1996?

That's the one...

Thinking back and he said, you know, nation had buggered off to do MacGyver, so to speak, and there was episode one and just notes for the other ones.

[27:57]

What do recall from that?

I mean, I think that was probably true that when he joined, there might have been an episode one and notes for the others.

But that doesn't mean that there was only ever notes for the others.

It just meant that Terry was in the middle of moving to the US.

Destiny was the 2nd last piece of work he ever did for British television, the last being fittingly, the Blake 7 episode terminal, which is up amongst his very best work ever.

Yes.

And so I think, you know, Terry, as ever, he wrote quickly, he gave them what they needed and he bugged off.

And so, you know, it's it's highly likely that there was a script and then a storyline for the other three, when Ken Greve joined the production.

I'm glad that you talked about that because I was saying to Nathan beforehand.

Like, it's funny that this is the end of Terry Nation on the show in 1979.

He doesn't give us any 80s scripts, although there's obviously approval for the Daleks and Sabre takes it in a certain direction, which picks up from, you know, the end of this with Daros been frozen.

I was just surprised that Terry never actually did come back or try to do another script, but you've just answered my question there.

[29:05]

And it certainly then accounts for the amount of humour that's in this is obviously coming from Douglas Adams, like, was Douglas the one that put in rock, paper, scissors, or did Terry suggest it, you know?

Or enhance it.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, there's things where Tom is very serious, and then other times where he's very jovial.

I mean, watching when he takes out his book to read when he's underneath the polystyrene boulder and then does that double take when the Mavellans turn up, like, you know.

No, he checks his page.

He checks and remembers the page number and then puts the book down.

So he sees them.

Then he checks what page is on so he can pick up later and then he puts the book down.

I just thought that, I just laugh.

I just laugh.

I think that rock, paper, scissors, almost certainly, Terry, don't you, Peter?

I think so.

Like I said before, I think he was attuned to the kind of thing that would be fun and interesting for a child audience.

[30:06]

I think it probably came out of discussions with Douglas Adams and Graham Williams because they have said that in discussing it, they talked about the theory of 2 opposing fleets that were matched very well.

And then Terry basically came back with exactly the idea that they had talked about rather than some kind of variation or development of it, which is fine.

I mean, it's a great choice.

I think it is good.

I do think it is very good.

And I think it's unsurprising that Sayward takes it up in the next Stalek story, which is, you know, many, many years later.

It would have been less surprising if he hadn't because the 80s were so continuity obsessed that I think they couldn't have just told another garlic story.

They had to continue the same Dalek story that we were watching.

It's a Nathan question.

Which one is the most fun?

Yeah.

This is really properly fun.

And I think it's fun despite, even at the time, me being aware that they were throwing the continuity away a bit.

And like there was no reason in the 1980s that you would expect that they would recreate the sets.

[31:12]

That's just not how things work, that all you have a different design up and they're going to do the sets.

It's not like Moffatt in the magician's apprentice going back and ensuring that the Dalek city looked like the original Daleks.

Although he would.

He did.

Oh, so you're talking about where they find Dabros and all that in terms of continuity to Genesis.

Yeah, so it's almost as if this is a completely different time that Frost got buried on Scaro because it really shares nothing in common.

Suddenly he's on level three and the doctor's aware of this shaft that goes down to the ground.

We're in the car-led city, we're going to talk about... skeleton right next to it.

No, we don't talk about the bunker.

We talk about the Khaled city because it's been 5 years and let's not be picky about things.

And so this isn't in any real sense, a sequel to Genesis of the Daleks because none of the concerns of Genesis of the Daleks are present at all in this.

It has some loose things in common.

We pick up on Davros.

[32:12]

And what it also does is it kind of makes previous dialect history impossible, I think.

It is very strange to imagine that somehow we get from Genesis of the Daleks to here to the Daleks 1000000s of years in the future, in their city, you know, on an irradiated petrified jungle planner.

It's not the sort of thing that Terry is in any way interested in and he's right not to be, I think.

No, and I think the only reason that we get this story is that Terry loved the character of Davros.

Yes.

Familiarity with the Daleks has kind of dulled us to their brilliant, you know, top 5 monster in all of fiction.

But I think it also familiarity with them dulled Terry to their brilliants a little bit.

And so Daleks can function very well without Davros.

David Whittaker proved it.

Terry's proved it many times in the past.

And Davros is an attractive character, but he's counterproductive for what the Daleks are because he turns them into henchmen and underlings.

[33:13]

Yes, they're cool.

And they become, that's right.

They become cyphers rather than schemers.

And I think that won't be remedied until remembrance of the Daleks or possibly Dalek in 2005.

And I think there's something meta going on there with the fact that the Daleks had now become robotic and aren't individual characters in themselves.

There's something which is influencing the storytelling.

Such a good point, Peter.

You've said that before in your articles.

I'm thinking back now too, when you're writing for the magazine, that they stop being centred to the narrative and simply become a cypher for whatever the text is.

Now, I'm just thinking, actually, Peter's just made me think.

In modern notes, are they Odysseus's crewmen and Davros's Penelope weaving his cobwebs for the last.

But yeah, they don't have presents other than actually looking quite terrific and doing cute things.

But yeah, it's a memory of how good they are in this one.

At one point, the Daleks say that it would be illogical for the doctor to sacrifice himself by blowing up the bomb while he's holding Davros hostage.

[34:22]

And what is a pretty great scene, except that Davros absolutely pulls rank on them and is ordering them to kill themselves.

Do you know what I mean?

Like he's, you know, the next episode, he's ordering them to go kill themselves and they just go off and do that, but he seems to enjoy being in charge.

Yeah, the scene after they take the bomb and go off down the end of the corridor and destroy themselves.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I don't think, I actually, I'm not sure that that's just a bug, you know, like an error in the script that Terry wasn't thinking carefully enough, that, that, that is their default position that self-sacrifice is illogical, but he's Davros and he's going to make them do it because they defeated him before and now he's going to get it.

We have seen them auto-destruct.

Yeah, yeah.

At the slightest pretext.

Had a bit of blue tack on the IP or something, you know?

It's all over.

Can we talk a little bit about the ratings for this story as well?

[35:23]

Yeah.

Just before we get on to Terry and sort of, you know, his remarkable, wonderful legacy for the series.

It makes me happy that Destiny the Daleks is the 2nd most watched Doctor Who story of all time.

Is it really?

Yeah.

So obviously the most watched is City of Death, which comes next.

But we do know that it's all artificially inflated because of the strikes on the other channel, but you're right.

You know, so many people are watching it.

But at the same time, so many people, other people may see flaws in things.

I don't know if we all took stock of what was going on on television as much as what we do in terms of analysis these days, but have you got those figures in front of you at all?

Well, Daleks average 13.5 million.

City of Death averaged 14.5 million.

The next contender in Doctor Who terms, whose Voyage of the Damned, which is 13.31.

So it doesn't reach, it doesn't scale the heights of Daleks.

And I think, you know, it's common to talk about the viewing figures were inflated.

[36:26]

I mean, yes, there were more people available to watch because there was a strike on ITV and so there was literally dead air if you turned to ITV.

But also we think about what a different world it was when it came to television.

We talked these days about the fragmentation of the audience and how there's just not an available, you know, a big enough pool of people to watch one thing at one time.

Back then there were only 3 channels.

There was BBC One, BBC 2 and ITV.

And one of those, BBC 2, was considered an arts channel along the lines of radio 3.

So the other side was literally the only place for viewers to go.

If there's no ITV.

If you wanted to watch TV, you were watching Destiny of the Daleks.

And by the way, I think, as well, in thinking about this, that there are 2 precipitous drops in ratings in the original landscape of Doctor Who, and it's not highlighted enough why.

So there is an odd 2000000 viewer drop between the Keys of Mariners episodes four, and episodes five.

[37:31]

Wow.

And people have not sort of, you know, it goes from 10.4 to 8.one and then down into the 7s and the 6s.

And people are like, well, that's mysterious.

And the same things happens after season 19.

Season 19 gets an average of like 9500000 viewers.

Season 20 comes back and it's got 7.5 .

And people go, well, why?

The reason is that there's a new channel introduced.

BBC 2 comes on the air during keys of Mariners.

Channel 4 comes on the air between seasons 19 and 20.

And that's the reason.

That's why Doctor Who, in the 1980s, can't hope to get the same ratings that it was in the 60s and the 70s.

It doesn't have that available audience pool.

And I think the fact that destiny has such high ratings just points to the fact that the opposition, you know, what's on at the same time means everything.

I think too, that it's inherent to Doctor Who that a lot of people watch it.

Like, I think that the thing about it, the thing that makes it great is that over the years, so many 1000000s of people watched it, that it wasn't just watched by dedicated coteries of extreme nerds.

[38:37]

I'm right here.

Yeah, podcasts.

But it was actually just watched by your mum and like basically everyone.

And, you know, not all at the same time, not watched regularly by everyone, but at some point watched by everyone.

And I think that that's the position that it comes back into when it comes back into the world in 2005, it's taking that role again.

And I think that towards the end of both the classic series and the new series runs, it struggles because it's no longer, you know, it makes news, it makes headlines.

Do you know what I mean?

Like it is important in some way, but when it's only being watched by a small number of people, which is inevitably what happens as the audience fragments over time.

I just think it struggles to kind of justify itself, I think.

Can we talk about the Movellans?

[39:37]

Absolutely.

I always talk about the Movellans.

I think that is it Peter Straker?

Yes.

He's beautiful.

He is extraordinary.

It's the steady gaze.

Tom recognises an actor of...

And indeed.

And they don't break eye contact. the tension in the room.

It's very sexy.

I'm reminded of the original casino, right?

Actually, with Peter Sellers and Ursula Andrus and the chemistry on screen.

I'm sure they we really need to do that.

There is that level of, it's coquettish game.

It's kind of like a scorpion and a snake eyeing each other off, isn't it?

I mean, it's quite extraordinary.

He's really pretty and he looks a bit effeminate, like he looks a little bit androgynous, don't you think?

I think the actor is gay. in that week.

We need to talk about costume choices in how they actually work against the narrative, but I think ultimately make it much better and more fun.

So everyone else is wearing space clothes like a Blake 7 episode.

[40:41]

You know, like all the prisoners.

Yeah, yeah.

All the prisoners, like they're wearing sort of cast off Doctor Who.

David Yip looks amazing though.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so this weird disco tight thing, which is also very Blake 70.

It's like what the altars wear or whatever in redemption.

And it's very...

Betan should have showed up in this stage, you think?

But it's so, it's white on white on white.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because that was one of June's signatures.

It's just mono block.

Did you at the time think?

It was a bit later when it was repeated as a child, I thought, oh, they were built as pleasure robots.

That's why they look like that.

That's why they were so pretty.

Well, it was quite a dark moment that when you stop and think, what kind of existence did these have?

Can I just say, Richard, I've never thought of that.

Ever think that?

Yeah, but why would their creators?

It's kind of like poor old SV7?

What has he seen?

I'm sorry.

I'm the age I am now.

That's the 1st time it's ever...

Why would you design something to be so pretty?

[41:42]

We go back to robots of death, but then these are ergonomically perfect.

Tony is sober.

So...

I just love their little power pack thing.

That's what I'm talking about.

On the side, and you take them off, and you could go and play in the playground and pretend to be a Mavell and die.

I don't think over all sides.

But, I mean, they are, look, the Mevellans are the Dravins, in a way, aren't they?

Yes, they are.

So what we have here, as well as a kind of robot version of the conflict from Genesis of the Daleks, is, so we had, in Genesis of the Daleks, we had the surprise reveal that the thals are evil, right?

That they're as bad as the as the as the carlades are.

They push Sarah Jane off things and say, now, come on back down here.

That's right. terrible people Here we get the, you know, the robot sort of matched against one another and so we get a robot version of that conflict.

[42:44]

But what we also get is something that you couldn't have done with the thars was they stand in for the thars.

They're the beautiful humanoid people that stand over against the Daleks.

And so we think that we're recreating the dynamic from the original Dalek story, but then it turns out that the Movellans are just as evil, and they actually are planning to do one of the Dalek signature moves, which is to render an entire planet's biosphere uninhabitable, which is what they were going to do, say, in Planet of the Daleks, and in death to the Daleks.

So they are super evil.

Also, what they did in the Dalek master plan with their flamethrowers, et cetera, et cetera.

Yeah, or what they had already done by the time of Dalek Invasion of Earth.

So they are just as evil.

I think is really great.

And I do think, you know, the cheat, the cheat, the way they cheat their way out of the part 3 cliffhanger, which is, um, is it Lan or a Geller?

One of them just says, oh, I didn't think Agella says.

I think I didn't need to prime it or whatever.

[43:46]

So we didn't actually need to kill her, so she was never actually in any danger and it's all fine.

But that is because they're robots and, you know, they, it's not their operating out of malice, they're operating out of just sheer kind of a desire to survive.

It's so funny talking about them because in my mind's eye, I always see them when they die, you know, when their hand is just over the, so stiff over the top of the, the, um, pillar or what it happens to be.

I always see that.

I always see them falling down and how they and that noise that goes with it.

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And from the old series, and then from the new series where they're not even front and centre, I just see in my head, I can just see that sequence where they get flung up against the wall in the background.

Well, it's amazing that they do work when they come back and you have to shoot around them a little bit.

So when they come back in the pilot in the 1st story of season 10.

You know, it's the same design because it's absolutely iconic, but the director does kind of shoot around them a little bit and doesn't foreground them and I think that's a deliberate choice by both Moffatt and the director there.

[44:55]

I mean, Richard mentioned the pleasure robot D84 there.

And I think it is very difficult to get right a robotic performance.

And the scenes with Justin Mavellans, like, you know, after the end of part three, where Commander Sherrill is talking to Agella and Land, they're not boring scenes.

They're not like cybermen talking to each other.

And I think like D84, to give a robotic performance character, an interest is a very finely tuned skill, and we see it with someone like Brent Spiner in Star Trek, where data could have been a terrible character, but he's given all of those nuances, which are really interesting.

I think the Mavellans en masse has been rehearsed very well into giving those performances.

And Peter, I agree with you.

I think they are just brilliant.

And, you know, could you imagine, Eric, say, would bringing them back, like, you know, in the mid 80s?

I think it could have been an absolute, like, disaster, like, excellent with the cyberman.

[45:56]

You know what I mean?

I mean, I just think it's rather wonderful how kind of period they are, how perfectly kind of 1979, 1980 they are.

They are from Blake 7.

They are 1979.

Yeah, yeah, Disco. are that.

Yeah, absolutely.

They're from both Blake 7 and top of the pops.

And one thing that I don't think is remarked upon very much is how diverse the cast is.

Like really quite surprisingly, not only them, but also in the slaves that remark.

Yes, as well.

Yes, exactly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

I think that is super interesting.

And this seems to take place in a world that we haven't quite seen before.

This is not the galaxy of Dalek Masterplan, but it is like a strange space future where people come from different planets and there's cargo ships and battle cruises and all of that sort of thing, which is not where we had the Daleks the last time we saw them.

Do you think, Nathan, it's because the old stock equalisation act was enforced?

[46:57]

I think it must have been that.

Little Blake 7 reference there for you.

I really like the fact that David Yip is amongst the sleeves on the planet because we so rarely get an Asian face in Docksu, even at this period, and he gives a really great performance in quite a minor role.

And so that really elevates things, I think.

He sells it well because if him and his offsider, I don't know her name.

If they were really bad, like you'd lump them in with everybody else who just sort of, you know, put themselves down when they get exterminated. see star quality even in that scene.

Yeah, they're both very good.

I think they are really both very good.

I actually think too, it's one of Terry Nation's nastiest moments, I think, which is where Romana dies, and I don't think it lands as nasty. probably the 1st time where I've realised quite how awful it is.

And they say we can't just leave her there.

And the Daleks say, no, she has to stay there.

You finish the work period and then you dispose of her.

[47:59]

And so all of the slaves are working alongside someone who has died of exhaustion and that person just has to lie there, there's a dead body here that we're mining around and then the work period ends and then we're permitted to go for a burial party.

And I think that's a particular Terry Nation type of bleakness that you get, for instance, in the Dalek invasion of Earth.

But it's also very blank because they can't actually bury the body.

They just put rocks on it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I think that's very good too.

I wouldn't be buried.

Look, I always approached Terry Dation from the perspective of a huge Blake 7 fan, and I know that his work for Blake 7 is absolutely incredible.

He gets bollocked a little bit for the fact that he does 13 episodes in the 1st season and lets the side down once or twice.

[49:01]

But in the 2nd and 3rd series of Blake 7, he contributes 3 episodes season, and they are all incredible.

And, you know, I also think that after Terry moved to the US, He must have pined for the days when he could sit down in a meeting with Roddy Marsh and emerged with a series commission and 13 episodes to write because that never happened again.

I always knew he could deliver greatness because of that because I'd seen it in Blake 7.

And he doesn't aspire to greatness, Terry.

The art, I think, of what he does is intuiting a great format for the series, which he delivers in the Daleks, and then pitching it to its best advantage.

So he single-handedly, as we've talked about, gave us the Doctor Who that we knew.

And the thing is that everyone else knew that he was great as well.

So you had David Whittaker there in the early days, considering Terry as the lead writer and saying, oh, you know, he should write every other story or every 3rd story.

That was wish fulfilment, but they had faith in him.

They knew what he could deliver.

And all of these brilliant figures who we know, you know, Barry Letts, people like Philip Hinchcliffe and Robert Holmes.

[50:07]

They didn't have to go to Terry for the Android invasion because they weren't contractually obliged to offer him a story unless it was the Daleks, but they did go to him and say to him, can you give us another story, which isn't the Daleks, because they rated working with him.

And so not just the critics, but his peers agreed that he was a tremendous writer.

I think the evidence is there on screen.

The reason that I think he doesn't get his due from a lot of people is that he's not the kind of brilliant writer that we have been led to believe doctor who deserves.

So if you get someone like Robert Holmes.

People point to Robert Holmes, kind of, you know, he was a jobbing writer.

He just wrote efficient scripts to water, but they get their bouquets because what they're good at.

So what homes have that kind of that world building and that richness of dialogue and the comedy double axe and all that kind of thing.

Russell, with his kind of, his emotion and his big arcs and his audaciousness, because of what Terry did was just nuts and bolts storytelling, strong ideas, his willingness to go big, his focus on just moving the plot onwards, because they are his strengths.

[51:14]

And they are the strengths of good Doctor Who.

He never quite gets appreciated for them.

Can I just say that that was an absolutely brilliant summary.

And if there's one thing that I've gotten out of starting this journey in the 1st 2 episodes, and then obviously listening to what's happened and where we are now, is that I have a new appreciation for termination, from what you've said in particular, Peter and Nathan, and everyone else, because I used to just lumping in with, oh, it's a terry nation hack.

You know, it's just Terry Nation.

I have a new appreciation for what he actually gave to the show and his skill at what he delivered.

So thank you, Peter, and thanks Simon and Nathan, because that's who I worked with on this one.

I think one of the things that he gets dragged for is having a box of tricks.

A formula.

Yeah, a formula.

But, I mean, that's one of the things that we drag Stephen Moffat for.

And I think Stephen Moffat is one of the most accomplished writers that the program's ever had, but he goes back and has things that he does all the time as well.

[52:21]

And they're very different writers.

You know, Terry is much more straightforward, Moffatt's much more knowing.

They're writing in different eras, so different things are expected of them and demanded of them.

So they're not particularly similar, but I don't think that, you know, the fact that he writes about particular things that he's interested in, things like, for instance, the collapse of a civilisation or war or, you know, that sort of staff.

Great moral oppositions.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Things like courage, things like self-sacrifice, like all of those things, cynicism, the way that people become hardbitten and cynical, the way that people have to make just kind of difficult moral choices.

Like all of that stuff is what drama is about and also what melodrama is about, what action shows are about, what shows like Doctor Who are about.

And so they're less sexy than the sort of things that Morford does with his time, travel, and his narrative tricks and stuff like that, but they are very central to what makes a show like Doctor Who work.

[53:27]

And I think that he reliably keeps things moving.

I don't think he writes a boring story.

You know, I don't think any of them are boring.

No, and I'll even say point of the Daleks isn't because there's always something new happening in every episode of that, which is probably one of my least favourite of his.

But what you were saying there, Nathan, about the box of tricks.

Like, you know, sometimes because he's not flashbang like Stephen with words or Bob Holmes with characters.

You don't necessarily see their tropes, right?

Until later on when they start to write towards the end of their time, then you suddenly pick it up because you've seen it so many times. you pick it up a lot earlier with Terry because it doesn't have all those whistles and that, but that doesn't mean to say that he is not an expert and not creative and not investigating things that are interesting to him and moving Doctor Who forward.

And also, I think mediocre reviewers.

Lazy critics.

There's been a lot of that over the years, hasn't there?

A lot of the out of fines.

Not more so when it comes to Terry.

[54:28]

Yeah, exactly.

I think they harp on the fact that his formula, so to speak, is a bad thing.

No, this is the formula for good Doctor Who.

It's a formula for a base Doctor Who story.

Terry himself described himself as having the lucky thing of a common touch.

And I think that is absolutely right.

He knows what sells stories.

He knows what hooks will get an audience.

Every good comic writer knows this.

Yes.

You must have structure.

You must have expectation.

Hitchcock said it.

That's all suspense is you must build up to the punchline.

And it's only a brilliant comic writer who really understands the structure of drama.

Well, better than most, I would say.

That's right.

And of course, we know from Terry's background that he was a comedy writer.

He did a lot of comedy and he himself...

It's the hardest to write, yeah.

Absolutely.

He himself didn't rate that highly.

He doesn't think he was a good writer, but that goes, I think, to the heart of why he was such an interesting person and why he never quite gets the incredible praise that he deserves.

[55:32]

I got my hands on a copy of the Doctor Who magazine, Legends, um, entry, which the 1st one is about Terry Nation, and it's really fascinating for the insights into him as a man, really, because in the editorial, Marcus says that one of the reasons that Terry was never served very well is he was a very self-effacing man, like he never capitalised on the brilliance of what he did.

He never he never proclaimed his own genius.

He just described himself as a jobbing writer, and he kind of deflected praise onto people like Barry Letts, or Verity Lambert, or David Maloney, and he always, in every interview, mentioned Raymond Cusick, and said, a lot of the impact of garlics is down to a brilliant BBC designer called Raymond Cusick.

And so he was not grand about his gifts.

And we see that in his writings.

He's not a pretentious writer.

He's a mainstream populist and popular writer.

I think that really says something about his character that he mentions Raymond Cusack because he could have easily just not done that and taken all the glory for himself, so to speak.

[56:36]

In terms of his Doctor Who journey.

I think it's really great that we have a script really early on.

His 2nd script keeps of Marinus, which is not a Dalek story, so you can actually see his world building and how he goes about things.

And then his 2nd last script is the Android Invasion, which again shows you after so many Dalek scripts that he can build a different world with stories that are interesting outside of that.

Interesting that it is Androids.

Yes, like this.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He's working towards this.

But it's great that we have those 2 that are not dalek swips.

I've said before, I'm not on the Android invasion entry for this season of 500-year diary, but if I had been, I would have said, it's a great pity that we never got a raft of terry nation unit stories, because I suspect they would have been very good.

From this season and from our Terence Dick's season.

I think we have a few good reasons to try and reclaim the word hack because the idea that people writing to order or people writing for commercial purposes, people doing it as a job means that there's less art or artifice or skill or craft involved is absolute nonsense and that there is a real proper skill in producing drama to order because it needs to be made.

[57:56]

And so sitting alone in a garret with your typewriter, letting all of your creative juices run free and untrammelled with no particular demands on your time or deadlines or anything.

That's one thing, but that's not better or more artistic than what these writers are doing.

They're creating something to order and maybe their hacks, like whatever, but that doesn't seem to me to be a shameful thing to be.

You know, when you say that, I reflect on a lot of things that I've said on various podcasts, and you know, there's another 2 writers that I could throw in there, Pip and Jane Baker, who I may have slandered, produced, but they had to do things to order, and there's talent to do that.

You look at any of the great sort of, you know, writers who contributed 3 or 4 stories over the years, thinking of someone like David Fisher or Malcolm Hulk.

They were hacks, if you want to use that word.

[58:57]

They delivered to order.

They had a bit of a formula going on.

They were able to sit down and say, what do you need this week because Doctor Who was weekly drama?

Bob Baker and Dave Martin.

Yeah.

That's right.

Some people do it better than others.

The approach is the same.

Well, that's all the time we have for this week and for this season.

We'll be back, early next year, to watch the doctor get the politics wrong, in season 6 of 500 year diary, bad revolutions.

[59:59]

In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts and you can keep up with us on our website, 500yearDiary.com, where you'll find our social media links as well as links to all of our other podcasts, including the entirety of flights or entirety, which comprises every episode of our 4 Doctor Who podcasts.

Until next time, if you see Maga, can you tell her that Commander Cheryl has absolutely no intention of giving her any of her lipsticks back?

Thank you very much for listening and good night.

Good night.

See you soon.

Good then.

That was 500 Year Diary, starring Todd Bealby, Nathan Bottomley, Peter Griffiths, and Richard Stone.

The theme was composed by Cameron Lamb.

This episode, Suzanne Danielle, and her career objective was recorded on the 9th of August, 2026, and released on the 25th of October.

[1:01:03]

A special shout out this week to Jonathan Jack Kerr, who created a brilliantly funny music video for Peter and Simon's We Love Terry Nation song from way back in episode four.

Follow the link in the show notes and stay tuned to the end of this episode for more.

And like so many other things, don't we miss him in the 1980s?

All right, I think that's us.

I think that's us out. perfect.

Brilliant.

Thank you.

Let's kick the 1980s on the way out the door.

Interesting when you get to that.

Well, the next Dalek story is the one that I refer to as the worst story today.

When are you doing the same?

Should we do a Bob Baker and Dave Martin?

Oh, yeah, it's called a Briscoe.

Shipshape and Bristol fashion is what it's going to be called.

We've already got a title.

We will do Bob Baker and Dave Martin, which means we will do this on Taran experiment again.

[1:02:09]

And what's the other one?

I'll charge Bidmead appointment, obviously, is coming up at some point.

Oh, forbid meat.

I want to shame he's not here around anymore.

I should have mentioned Bidmead because Bidmead, you know, wrote to order.

It's like, what do you need?

You need a story to wrap up the area, you need a generation story. needs something that thematically wraps up the season.

I'll just jump and do it.

And that was incredible.

Like, I did that with Luke Sims Jenkins, because, you know, he's got the...

We're talking about Lagopolis.

Yeah, he's got the Maran Chess Club podcast, which does the 5th doctor stuff.

And because Pete's in it for like 10 seconds at the end.

He decided it was a Pete story and we would do it. it just struck me how incredibly good it is.

Like I bragged on it and I made fun of it on FTE and I think unfairly because it's really properly good.

What?

Do you know, when I was 16 years old.

When I was 16 years old at a Doctor Who day, I, um, I got one over on Tony Cook, who used to do the Doctor Who trivia and he sort of, he had all of these questions and he used to try and trick me into getting something wrong and I never would.

[1:03:12]

And one of them was one of his questions was how many times, how many how many doctors at that stage had been credited as Doctor Who.

And I said five, up to Peter Davidson.

He said, I've got you wrong.

It was only 4 up to Tom Baker.

And I said, and the audience groaned.

He's finally caught him out.

I said, sorry, Tony, you're wrong.

Peter Davison is credited as Doctor Who on Lucopolis, part four.

Of course.

In my imagination, I see tearing nation, right in the same script each time.

In his mind, a delegation will try to insulation.

As slaves are made to mine, with no imagination.

Here comes Terrenation.

[1:04:14]

Just radiation everywhere and space play.

By halfway through part four. cutting through the door There's so much you can do.

With bombs and doctors.

We love Terry Nation.

Mass extermination We love Terri Nation yeah We loved every nation incubation We love It's a crazy situation to think of terry nation adding space to everything.

There'll be Daleks, every story, tearing in my corey and slither slithering.

[1:05:19]

There's no imagination, little complication To my obese, my rap and magic chin.

The cause I'm desperate, we're bored.

I'm like enough But you can name the fouls Which is to syllabize.

We love every nation Old space communication We love Terry Nation. yeah We love every nation Sent in vegetation.

We love Terry Nation, yeah.

With no imagination Here comes tearing nation And now we realise that all His cliche Is our present in each script, which is mostly ripped off.

[1:06:33]

He's Terry, so he can.

We love every nation, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh We love our nation on rotation We love terry nation, yeah We love every nation Robert Holmes frustration We love, termination, We love, termination We love, terriation. yeah