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NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-09-06 at 15:38:50

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to 500 year diary, the only Doctor Who podcast that thinks that flying around Spain would make for quite a relaxing holiday.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm James.

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I'm Adam.

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And I'm Kevin.

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It's the 22nd of May 1965.

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It's been nearly 5 months since we locked Susan out of the TARDIS and fled post-apocalyptic earth, and now as the Doctor Who's 2nd season nears its end, it looks like a rematch is on the cards.

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And after last week's surprise Dalek Cliffhanger, tonight, 10000000 people have tuned in to watch that rematch take place.

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So what new ideas does Terry Nation bring to the table for his 3rd dialect outing?

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Let's find out.

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It's the chase, you know.

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I want to talk a little bit about the fact that this story comes out on the HS in 1993 and it came out in a tin box with Remembrance of the Daleks, I think.

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Is that right?

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Yes.

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Yes, yeah.

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I remember the tin.

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I remember what was in it.

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And it was Gary's tin.

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It was Gary Russell's idea.

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And I wasn't buying all the VHS tapes, which is impossible to imagine, was it?

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I just, you know, that's insane.

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I had a handful.

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I had that TARDIS 10 such an enduring format.

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Yeah, that's right.

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They're all landfill now, aren't they?

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They go for lots of money on eBay, apparently, the VHSs.

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People love them.

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Oh, I shouldn't need to move away.

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Let's just stop and say it's a truly terrible format.

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Abs shockingly bad.

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Not even as good as Beta Max.

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No, no.

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Yeah, well, Beta Max was better, but it lost.

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And it was still bad.

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I think Beena Max has kind of past se now.

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Everyone now is alpha maxing.

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There we go.

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So I wasn't buying the black and white ones because I actually was only buying the ones that I really, really cared about and, you know, we I'd never watched the black and white ones as a kid apart from the crotons and that other one.

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What was the other one?

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The Mind Robber, which used to be shown on ABC TV.

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So the chase was kind of like the only black and white Doctor Who story that I had.

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And I really had no idea that Doctor Who in the 60s got any better than this.

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Like, I thought it was all...

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Or less directed like this.

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And I watched it over and over again.

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Like, I absolutely watch the hell out of it.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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I kind of love it, I have to say.

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I have a massive soft spot for it.

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I used to.

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And like this was one of those ones that, you know, when you read about the ones that we've never seen because they, you know, never showed them on television, that were all off in the ether.

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This one seemed exciting.

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Like, you know, it had departing companions.

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It was, you know, the Daleks chasing the doctor through time and space. like, how could this possibly work?

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And you're like, oh, it doesn't.

57
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It was funny watching this through because I haven't in a number of years, and I always had very fuzzy memories of it from just the warm and fuzzy nature of just one of the best companion departures in the classic series that actually cares about characters.

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What a concept.

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And I let that really bias my memory of the entire cereal because most of the cereal is not good.

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I know, I was excited because remember when Doctor Who was on Twitch for a while and everyone went crazy for London, 1965.

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Okay, yeah.

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And I was like, oh, I don't remember that being as much fun as this.

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And then you watched only that bit, just the photos of them kicking pigeons. in Trafalgar Square.

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You're like, oh, this is great.

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This is wonderful.

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And I'm like, oh, I forgot about the 6 episodes that preceded this best.

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All those shots make me do is itch.

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Those pictures are all over Jackie Hill's fair and faith.

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Yeah.

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Really, really triggering.

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They do.

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Have you been there?

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Honestly, that's the least goopy monster that's attacked her.

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That's true.

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She does get molested by a big rubber octopus in episode two.

76
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Yeah, she avoids the slither.

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She also gets, you know, manhandled by a sailor.

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Well, yeah, by Ian, Ian nearly takes her trousers off earlier in that episode.

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Yeah, yes, I mean, we'll get to the ending, and I do think that the ending is absolutely magnificent, like really properly good and maybe much better than I thought it was in the past.

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I think it's really great.

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And obviously directed by someone else.

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Yeah, yeah, and possibly written by someone else.

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Actually.

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I do think it is really extremely good.

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So we obviously did the Keys of Marinace a couple of weeks ago.

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And I love the keys of Marinace.

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Like I just think the keys of marinace is awesome.

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And it's got Fiona Walker in it, obviously, and she's magnificent.

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The whole thing is just really fun.

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Everything gets out of your way in 25 minutes so you don't have the chance to kind of get super bored by any offer.

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So this is kind of him going back and doing the same butt with Daleks.

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But I have to say that I think it is just less successful, though, despite the Daleks.

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I mean, watching Richard Martin talk about it in the special feature, bit of business, and he basically said, uh, Terry turned up with a handful of scenarios, and Dennis Spooner went and wrote the scripts, and you're like, it doesn't even feel like they put that much effort in.

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Also, this, I mean, I don't want to malign any production decisions, but the metres of Hessian with a bit of sand thrown on them are not convincing anyone that they're dunes.

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No, no.

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I mean, they're very, very close up against kind of the painted backdrop, which is just painfully visible.

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You know, in a way that we probably won't see again until Lagopolis.

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Yeah, it's really it's really quite bad, I think.

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And, you know, we go on location and the location staff is good, but there isn't really that much of it.

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But we do go to some sand dunes in Kent, apparently, for the beginning there.

101
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Should we go for a swim?

102
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No wonder the Dalek was convinced that by the cardigan in the coat over some stinks, the sand dunes were so unconvincing.

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The ultimate ignominy of this.

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I mean, everyone else is convinced by a man who is very clearly not William Hartnall.

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Miming badly to a record.

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Accepting close-ups.

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But sometimes not even then.

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I mean, sometimes not even in close eyes.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, so that's like a terribly weird production decision.

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And there's times where you sort of think, Bill could have just popped around behind the cameras and then turned up on the other side of the thing.

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And, you know, that wouldn't have required a special effect and we could have given Edmund, you know, the week off or something.

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Because, I mean, there's one particular scene in the big fight scene in episode 5 where it's Edmund Warwick, isn't it?

115
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And he's standing between Jackie and and Maureen and uttering dialogue and it's just like ridiculous.

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He looks like Odo from Deep Space Nine.

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It's really like it's really quite bad.

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I think I did an episode of all of time and space on the chase.

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And because it was sort of famously one of my favourite stories.

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And it was that really, I think, that spoiled it for me because since I had really grown to love the chase, I had seen those surviving episodes or the then surviving episodes of the Daleks master plan, you know, directed by someone who can direct in the set where we'd put some effort into making it look like a jungle.

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And they're really good those scenes.

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Like the Planet Campbell's amazing as we're going to discover next week.

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Whereas this is really dismal, isn't it?

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Like just the sets are really poor, you know, you've got some transparent fabric that we've painted things on and the studio floors are really apparent everywhere.

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When we arrive and we start talking about the corridor of lights.

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It's maybe 3 or 4 scenes before you actually see them, even though we've been talking about them, like you, you know, the miniature doesn't sell it.

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Like there's just all of these production decisions that are bad.

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And I think, you know, there's the big climactic battle at the end of episode 2 on Aridius where, again, he's just pointed the camera at the action and just let the action happen in front of it.

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And again, the big one at the end of episode four, is it?

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like in the haunted house where everyone sort of seems to be standing around waiting for their queue and stuff and like it's just very hard to know what's going on.

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He can't cover it.

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He clearly wants to do something, but it's the same as the Dalek battle in Sloane Square or the battle at the end of episode 7 of the Daleks, where he just cannot do it and doesn't seem to be learning.

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There's a couple of really odd shots as well.

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There's one, like a really high one.

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I think it's on the boat where you can see the Cyclorama and the rings that it's hanging from.

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I probably shouldn't have watched the Blu-ray version.

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It was a little bit chilled.

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And you've seen how big my television was.

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There's just some really strange choices as well.

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Like, I noticed in one point in the haunted house.

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A Dalek shoots one of the creatures and we don't hear the sound effect of the Dalek gun.

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You just see the screen get inverted.

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He doesn't feel it tuned to even the comedy in the script.

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Like, I know the Dalek Cliffhanger episode one is sneezing.

145
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But you wouldn't know it from listening.

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It sounds like it's reaching a very different kind of climax in the episode.

147
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Well, it is working its way out.

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What?

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Like, it's a very strange sound. upsetting.

150
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It is trying to be comedy.

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Is that Dennis Spooner?

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Like, it doesn't seem...

153
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I think so.

154
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I mean, Terry Nation's a comedy writer.

155
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. one of Hancock's comedy writers.

156
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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No, I was thinking that too, because, I mean, there is that the Morton Dill bit as well, which is all kind of...

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Yeah, it's being played for copies.

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Just again, very strangely done, paced, acted, like directed the whole thing.

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And, you know, it had the potential possibly to be funny.

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I think there are definite gags there.

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And Spooner is funny.

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You know, the Romans is a funny script.

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But this was obviously done in a hurry, though.

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Like it's anyone who's been through a couple of drafts can write the Romans well. anyone who's been given a collection of notes from Terry Nation has gone, oh my god, we need to film this next Thursday.

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He's probably not going to do the best job because apparently a script had fallen over. when this was rushed up.

169
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This was kind of like pushed up in the schedule.

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And I mean, this is according to Richard Martin.

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He could be lying and trying to cover his tracks.

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I mean, I think that the plan was for this to end the season.

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So we would, you know, have the Daleks near the beginning of the season and then the Daleks at the end and then the departure at the end.

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And so I think it does get brought forward.

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And there was some thought of making it 7 episodes as well to make up for the lost episode of Planet of Giants.

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You don't want to spend even longer on the Marie Celeste?

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No, maybe even longer in the mushroom jungle. incomprehensible mushroom jungle.

178
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I think I've been in one or 2 of those, but they looked a little different.

179
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Yeah.

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Let's talk about the terry nationness of it.

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For me over the last few weeks, the thing that I've learned that Terry Nation does basically better than anyone else is splitting the party up.

182
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And there is quite a lot of that.

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There's, you know, in Keys of Mariners, there's one really, just let's go this way and I'll go that way for like no other reason than to give the cameras time to reposition or something.

184
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Here, we split the party up like we do in the Keys of Marinace, where the doctor jumps ahead to episode 5 at some point.

185
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No, no, that's Barbara on the scene, right?

186
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And here we leave Vicki behind and don't notice in this way that just seems so outrageous, unless you've already seen Siklo K, destroy from season one or series A of Blake 7, where they do the same thing to Calli, where no one notices that Calli hasn't been beamed up. person who can speak to us in our brains.

187
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Why isn't she here?

188
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Speaking of waiting for your cue, she's literally just standing there in the middle go, oh, what's my cue?

189
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What's my cue?

190
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Oh, oh.

191
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Oh, I didn't give him the charters.

192
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I mean, I actually don't think that's a bad thing.

193
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And I do think that given the premise at the time, which is that we can't control the TARDIS and suddenly the TARDIS can't go back to the same place twice, which seems to be new, but that is actually sort of not too bad.

194
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And I imagine that it happens so that Vicky can have their heads up about the Dalek, the robot replica of the doctor, I guess.

195
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Also, it's, you know, hit some jeopardy.

196
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

197
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I think the story is also very good at giving us every sort of permutation of this cast on the way out.

198
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Like there is a stretch where it's the Dr. and Barbara, Vicky and Ian.

199
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There's a stretch where it's Ian and Barbara.

200
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There's a stretch where it's Vicky and Barbara.

201
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They sort of, you get to enjoy every little mashup.

202
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It's one of those times where you can almost, almost buy the postmodern interpretation of things.

203
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Yeah, yeah.

204
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I think Sandifa has a very clear sort of redemptive reading of this where it's all deliberate, which is pretty great.

205
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It's her, you know, it's her thesis that it's better to enjoy something than not to enjoy it.

206
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And so she finds a way of rescuing this which I find not compelling exactly, but I've got a fair amount of sympathy for it.

207
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And certainly this crew, this Tartar's crew, is great.

208
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I think, you know, one of the all time great Tartar Cruise.

209
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We get Vicky being a bit of a panicky idiot a couple of times, but vastly less frequently than Carol Anne would have been forced to do, I think.

210
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I think that's just Terry writing.

211
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Yes. as Susan going, oh, it's not her.

212
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I'm just writer as her anyway.

213
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

214
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Because she even has like a, like instead of breaking her ankle, there's something wrong with her shoe and it's like, it's almost like Maureen's gone, I don't do the ankle.

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I mean, her panicking as she's being lowered down from the city is pretty kind of grim to watch, I think.

216
00:16:16.139 --> 00:16:25.559
There's a lot of grim underage people going off of things in this because there is a woman with a baby. in one scene that is so much.

217
00:16:25.620 --> 00:16:28.379
I'm like, what is happening here all of a sudden?

218
00:16:28.500 --> 00:16:31.620
Like the 2nd unit have just gone off on their own and go, ah, we'll kill a baby.

219
00:16:31.679 --> 00:16:32.340
This will be fun.

220
00:16:32.940 --> 00:16:33.960
What's a baby on the ship?

221
00:16:34.139 --> 00:16:36.120
Yeah, I know, maybe in dialogue.

222
00:16:37.139 --> 00:16:37.740
No, no.

223
00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:40.320
I know historically there was a baby.

224
00:16:41.639 --> 00:16:42.659
We don't need to see it.

225
00:16:46.019 --> 00:16:50.519
I'm pretty sure Queen Elizabeth didn't also tell Shakespeare to write 200 plays.

226
00:16:51.720 --> 00:16:52.440
She did.

227
00:16:52.500 --> 00:16:53.399
It was her idea.

228
00:16:53.399 --> 00:16:55.080
She did know the Falstaff in love.

229
00:16:55.080 --> 00:16:55.679
It was.

230
00:16:56.399 --> 00:17:00.299
But then we got the completely fabricated Hamlet thing.

231
00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:01.860
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

232
00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:02.220
Yeah.

233
00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:05.220
Almost as historically accurate as the new ham nap.

234
00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:09.240
I mean, that kid did die, but that's about it.

235
00:17:16.200 --> 00:17:29.339
I mean, we start with the time television episode, and I actually think that this is incredibly charming, and I think it is what you say, Kevin, that because this isn't a proper Doctor Who story in any kind of sense of the word.

236
00:17:29.700 --> 00:17:36.119
What it is is an opportunity for us to hang out with this crew and see sort of what their life is like.

237
00:17:36.359 --> 00:17:39.480
And when I was a kid, I always love those scenes in the TARDIS.

238
00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:41.579
And here I think they're really great.

239
00:17:41.700 --> 00:17:46.380
You know, and you've got Maureen acting oddly and being a useless person and stuff.

240
00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:48.180
That's so super strange.

241
00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:49.680
But she's kind of fun.

242
00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:50.759
She's being a teenager.

243
00:17:50.819 --> 00:17:52.079
They get disaffected easily.

244
00:17:52.680 --> 00:17:57.119
It does have the very good gag though of her saying, oh, if you told me what this was, I could have fixed it for you.

245
00:17:57.180 --> 00:17:58.319
That's awesome, isn't it?

246
00:17:58.380 --> 00:17:59.099
It's pretty good.

247
00:17:59.220 --> 00:18:00.180
That is pretty good.

248
00:18:00.660 --> 00:18:10.920
And, you know, the fact that she thinks the Beatles play classical music as well, because she is so much cooler and more modern and hip than the Beatles are, which is pretty great.

249
00:18:11.460 --> 00:18:12.900
That was cut from what I watched.

250
00:18:13.079 --> 00:18:13.920
I was destroyed.

251
00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:15.599
Oh no.

252
00:18:15.779 --> 00:18:16.740
It's on the bus.

253
00:18:16.799 --> 00:18:18.480
They've taken that scene off of streaming.

254
00:18:19.079 --> 00:18:19.740
Oh yeah.

255
00:18:19.859 --> 00:18:21.000
Yeah, they would do.

256
00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:30.720
Somehow, just by accident, it made its way onto the DVD and onto the Blu-ray, even though there were obviously rights issues with it.

257
00:18:31.079 --> 00:18:42.119
What you did miss is the much anthologised clip of Ian dancing, like with his hand up, like a science teacher.

258
00:18:43.559 --> 00:18:45.000
We should have screen grabbed that.

259
00:18:47.220 --> 00:18:54.779
He's hilarious You know what I did find interesting was because this was contemporary with the Beatles. and Vicky talking about them.

260
00:18:54.839 --> 00:18:57.119
Of course, I know the Beatles.

261
00:18:57.180 --> 00:19:01.740
I've been to their museum and they're all kind of like, as if that's going to happen.

262
00:19:01.799 --> 00:19:04.380
I'm like, no, no, no, you need to be here now.

263
00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:06.000
That is absolutely a thing.

264
00:19:07.319 --> 00:19:12.240
They are revered in a way that no one else is revered in music since Mozart, probably.

265
00:19:12.539 --> 00:19:17.400
It's just surprised that Dan wasn't working in the Beatles Museum in it all.

266
00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:19.259
Oh, God.

267
00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:22.140
It is pretty incredible though, isn't it?

268
00:19:22.200 --> 00:19:31.440
Because they're not, I mean, they're big, but they're not, and obviously, you know, Dalek Mania takes its name from Beetle Mania and stuff.

269
00:19:31.500 --> 00:19:33.240
Yeah, big, but no one has any idea.

270
00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:42.839
And I guess it's part of that just because they're a thing that boomers like that it became just so massively kind of such a massive cultural thing.

271
00:19:43.319 --> 00:19:50.579
But it is really strange because it's like, it'd be like a joke for us going, oh, it's one direction, as if they're going to have a museum in the future.

272
00:19:50.700 --> 00:20:02.759
Like, it feels very much like a, it's meant to be a joke about the museum, and we're like, now in this day and age, we're like, no, that would absolutely, when the other 2 go, there's, they'll have statues.

273
00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:06.539
They're currently making 4 movies about each one of them.

274
00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:08.759
It's ridiculous.

275
00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:11.759
All of that stuff is really great, isn't it?

276
00:20:11.819 --> 00:20:27.480
And the thing is that we're watching them watch TV and yeah, it's like a little goggle box moment where they're just sort of flicking from channel to channel, watching television in a way that hadn't been invented yet because TVs didn't have remote controls.

277
00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:38.160
And back in the day, of course, in the UK, you would put on one channel and you would be on that channel for the whole evening, essentially, or possibly your whole life.

278
00:20:38.220 --> 00:20:39.420
Yeah, like...

279
00:20:39.539 --> 00:20:44.400
It also sets up that beautiful ending where they're all watching Ian and Barber leave on TV.

280
00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:45.359
It's so good.

281
00:20:45.480 --> 00:20:46.740
Just so perfect.

282
00:20:47.099 --> 00:20:54.660
So does somebody need to get in touch with Terry Nations estate and let him know that they ripped him off for gold?

283
00:20:55.740 --> 00:20:56.460
Yeah, yeah.

284
00:20:56.519 --> 00:20:58.380
It's quite terrific, isn't it?

285
00:20:58.680 --> 00:21:03.420
But it is kind of not necessarily what we were expecting last week.

286
00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:12.539
And so then the Daleks sort of come along, but as usual, we're just faffing around, aren't we, for a whole episode before they arrive so that we can do that cliffhanger again.

287
00:21:13.380 --> 00:21:15.240
We should have gotten the Daleks watching TV too.

288
00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:17.279
Yeah, they love the television.

289
00:21:19.079 --> 00:21:20.819
Get their running commentary as well.

290
00:21:21.539 --> 00:21:27.539
Do you think there was a subtextual meaning to the Gettysburg address and that particular section of it?

291
00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:38.039
Because it was, it felt kind of pointed in a way that I don't have any context for now, but I'm wondering if it was meant to mean something then?

292
00:21:38.099 --> 00:21:42.180
Was there some kind of racism thing going on in the UK?

293
00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:46.859
Was there some kind of, it just feels like an odd thing for Ian to choose to watch?

294
00:21:47.400 --> 00:21:54.599
I wonder though, like these seem to be the sort of things and the Mary Celeste seem to be the sort of history things that you learn about at school.

295
00:21:55.980 --> 00:22:03.539
And I think because people read the speech, like the speech would have been read in schools just sort of regularly in the UK.

296
00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:18.720
You know, like it is obviously the time of the sort of civil rights movement, but I don't know that the Brits were kind of looking over at the US thinking about that, but they certainly weren't when they were writing the dialogue, the civil toymaker, or doing the makeup for the savages.

297
00:22:19.019 --> 00:22:19.680
That's right.

298
00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:20.519
That's right.

299
00:22:20.819 --> 00:22:22.920
I mean, Enoch Powell is a few years off as well.

300
00:22:23.099 --> 00:22:24.119
Yeah, yeah.

301
00:22:24.180 --> 00:22:26.279
So, so I do think it's a school thing.

302
00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:49.680
I think that, you know, the idea that the Merry Wives of Windsor was something that was based off a character from Henry IV, part one and that it was the Queen's idea, that's something that you would learn at school then, and the Mary Celeste, like, we have that sort of closing shot on the slate where he's written the thing about the Azores and stuff, and that's clearly a detail that you're supposed to know as well as the woman with the baby too, I guess.

303
00:22:50.579 --> 00:22:52.380
I think that that's that's what's happening.

304
00:22:52.440 --> 00:23:02.099
And it is very much the parents and a grandfather and a child, so it's a family unit all sitting around watching TV and commenting on it.

305
00:23:02.099 --> 00:23:05.339
So there is something sort of contemporary about it.

306
00:23:05.819 --> 00:23:06.359
I think.

307
00:23:06.599 --> 00:23:08.339
So it's like they're watching Doctor Who.

308
00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:11.460
Oh, Doctor Who's a little bit educational. and also entertaining.

309
00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:12.359
Look, there's the Beatles.

310
00:23:13.259 --> 00:23:15.180
There's no sofa, so they can't hide behind that.

311
00:23:16.140 --> 00:23:17.640
So you can't have the Daleks on it.

312
00:23:17.700 --> 00:23:19.619
I mean, you do eventually, but yeah.

313
00:23:20.099 --> 00:23:21.119
And that's great as well.

314
00:23:21.180 --> 00:23:29.339
Like, I do love how they rope that in, you know, that somehow it decides to show them the daleks of coming to get them, which is pretty awesome as well.

315
00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:31.259
Well, that's the Tartars, isn't it?

316
00:23:31.740 --> 00:23:33.480
Well, I guess so. yeah.

317
00:23:35.700 --> 00:23:44.579
I do really hate that they spent all of their external filming money on doing Queen Elizabeth and Abraham Lincoln.

318
00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:48.839
I like, why didn't you do them in studio and then go outside to a sand tune?

319
00:23:50.039 --> 00:23:51.420
Well, I mean, they do a bit.

320
00:23:51.660 --> 00:23:52.859
I mean, they do a bit.

321
00:23:52.980 --> 00:23:56.700
So a radius is another one of these sort of low effort terry nation planet names.

322
00:23:56.940 --> 00:23:57.480
Oh, yeah.

323
00:23:57.480 --> 00:23:58.920
And of course...

324
00:23:58.920 --> 00:24:00.180
It's nominative determinism.

325
00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:04.559
Well, it is because you know what the best part about that is, it used to be an ocean player.

326
00:24:05.099 --> 00:24:05.880
Yeah, that's right.

327
00:24:06.299 --> 00:24:08.940
Everyone's called go to the ocean planet of Aradius.

328
00:24:10.380 --> 00:24:11.700
No idea determinism.

329
00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:13.859
And it became Arab.

330
00:24:14.160 --> 00:24:14.579
Yes.

331
00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:15.779
Yeah.

332
00:24:16.380 --> 00:24:19.079
But all of that stuff is just incredibly limp, isn't it?

333
00:24:19.140 --> 00:24:27.299
So Terry does like monsters, like big sort of slimy monsters and he, we had the slither, God help us.

334
00:24:28.200 --> 00:24:29.339
I love the Maya Beast.

335
00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:31.740
My Beast is spectacular.

336
00:24:31.799 --> 00:24:33.720
It has all the things that you want to be scared of.

337
00:24:33.779 --> 00:24:38.279
The bug eyes, the big tentacle, and it's large and can swallow a whole person.

338
00:24:39.359 --> 00:24:40.380
The long inside.

339
00:24:40.500 --> 00:24:42.059
In other words, Vicky would adopt it as a pad.

340
00:24:43.319 --> 00:24:44.220
Vicky would love it.

341
00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:49.559
It's just constantly lolling sideways because they can't keep the head straight.

342
00:24:50.460 --> 00:24:50.880
Yeah.

343
00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:52.140
Yeah.

344
00:24:52.140 --> 00:24:59.220
Like that one sea devil in Warriors of the D. They fix that in the special edition.

345
00:24:59.220 --> 00:24:59.640
I did.

346
00:25:01.380 --> 00:25:02.099
Yeah, yeah.

347
00:25:02.160 --> 00:25:02.940
Oh that's sad.

348
00:25:03.059 --> 00:25:04.619
I like when they leave that stuff in.

349
00:25:05.700 --> 00:25:09.059
I like that my Zigon dolly has a microphone in one of his little suckers.

350
00:25:12.420 --> 00:25:21.779
So, I mean, again, because this is so unlike a Doctor Who story, because we're just escaping and essentially that's all we're doing.

351
00:25:21.839 --> 00:25:31.140
And so there is some kind of sense in which maybe the Daleks just leave, but maybe they massacre all the Oridians.

352
00:25:31.200 --> 00:25:41.339
Maybe they massacre Hewell Bennett, just for, you know, letting the doctor and that escape because that looks like where we're heading, but we just leave and we're gone.

353
00:25:41.940 --> 00:25:49.259
There's some kind of attempt at a bit of a story by having, you know, we talk about the elders we talk about, the Daleks negotiating with these people.

354
00:25:49.319 --> 00:25:55.259
I mean, it is sort of a thing, and it does, I guess, sell why the Daleks are bad people.

355
00:25:55.319 --> 00:25:56.759
We need that kind of introduced.

356
00:25:56.819 --> 00:25:59.759
They need to be able to kill someone, you know, early on.

357
00:26:00.119 --> 00:26:02.279
Yeah, but I feel like the direction is so bad.

358
00:26:02.339 --> 00:26:04.680
We don't, there's no tension.

359
00:26:04.740 --> 00:26:05.940
There's no menace.

360
00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:08.279
There's no idea of that.

361
00:26:08.339 --> 00:26:11.700
And there's constantly people standing in front of other people who are speaking.

362
00:26:13.319 --> 00:26:16.440
It's always a hat or a head in front of the person who's speaking.

363
00:26:16.500 --> 00:26:18.000
It's like, are you going to move the cat?

364
00:26:18.119 --> 00:26:26.339
No, just leave it there. that's fine I feel like there's a it's lacking that that threat.

365
00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:33.539
Also, I don't know what Dudley Simpson is doing, but he's having a whale of a time making some sort of madcap comedy.

366
00:26:33.720 --> 00:26:34.740
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

367
00:26:35.220 --> 00:26:36.359
Oh, music is wild.

368
00:26:37.619 --> 00:26:40.079
I mean, there's no tone meeting is the problem, isn't it?

369
00:26:40.140 --> 00:26:41.519
Everyone's on a different page.

370
00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:47.759
And like Dennis Spooner's idea to have comedy daleks is probably a bad idea.

371
00:26:48.299 --> 00:26:51.900
Yeah, sneezing Daleks, but aren't clearly sneezing.

372
00:26:52.380 --> 00:26:57.000
There's also the comedy dumb Dalek where it's not very clear that that's what's going on.

373
00:26:57.059 --> 00:26:58.680
So you're just like, why is this stuff?

374
00:26:59.400 --> 00:27:00.660
Oh, you're trying to be funny.

375
00:27:01.859 --> 00:27:05.640
Well, he's got a kind of, he's got some kind of non-RP accent as well.

376
00:27:05.700 --> 00:27:12.059
Like he seems to have some weird regional accent or something or like a working-class accent of some kind.

377
00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:14.460
And he's having difficulty with the addition, isn't he?

378
00:27:14.519 --> 00:27:18.299
He's kind of going 45, carry the one. you know, like that sort of stuff.

379
00:27:18.539 --> 00:27:21.180
There's also the one that gets ordered to go somewhere and doesn't leave.

380
00:27:22.740 --> 00:27:24.359
Well, do it then to it.

381
00:27:24.900 --> 00:27:25.680
Get on with it.

382
00:27:27.119 --> 00:27:28.500
See, that that's kind of gold.

383
00:27:29.640 --> 00:27:30.900
I think they can be funny.

384
00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:33.420
And I do think, you know, in Daleks, in Manhattan.

385
00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:34.559
There are a couple of scenes.

386
00:27:34.619 --> 00:27:37.980
There's that wonderful scene where the 2 Daleks are bitching about Dalek Sec.

387
00:27:38.039 --> 00:27:38.460
Remember that?

388
00:27:39.420 --> 00:27:43.680
one of the looks around to just see that no one's listening and then they start gossiping.

389
00:27:43.799 --> 00:27:45.180
Like, I think you can do it.

390
00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:46.079
It is possible.

391
00:27:46.200 --> 00:27:47.400
I don't think it ruins it.

392
00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:51.000
And the Daleks with the T in Power of the Daleks. is very funny.

393
00:27:52.019 --> 00:27:53.519
And also the little baby daleks.

394
00:27:54.660 --> 00:27:55.680
Evil of the Daleks.

395
00:27:55.740 --> 00:27:56.460
Like, they can be funny.

396
00:27:57.240 --> 00:27:58.319
Without ruining them.

397
00:27:58.380 --> 00:28:04.500
And that's the thing that Doctor Who can do, it can make its monsters funny without making them less menacing, I think.

398
00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:06.960
So it wasn't necessarily a bad idea.

399
00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:09.660
I think the problem here is it just feels half-hearted.

400
00:28:09.720 --> 00:28:12.539
It feels unmotivated and it doesn't really commit to the joke.

401
00:28:12.599 --> 00:28:15.779
It's just like, oh, we're kind of doing a joke here.

402
00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:16.740
Yeah, kind of.

403
00:28:16.920 --> 00:28:17.759
I think that's it.

404
00:28:17.819 --> 00:28:18.420
I think that's it.

405
00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:31.980
And so, you know, like later on when you've got sort of Ian kind of, he gets hit on the head by Vicky and we even get told that's a joke, you know, like in the scene afterwards and stuff and it's not really particularly funny.

406
00:28:32.039 --> 00:28:33.720
I mean, you know, Ian's right.

407
00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:35.339
So I think you're right.

408
00:28:35.579 --> 00:28:41.039
It is intended to be a comedy, but no one has told Richard Martin, perhaps.

409
00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:41.519
No.

410
00:28:41.519 --> 00:28:45.059
I mean, look, I think it's also partly Dennis Spooner being in a hurry.

411
00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:53.700
I don't know if you, like, you'll probably find this when you do dalek master plan, but the Feast of Stephen is hard work, because, because it doesn't exist.

412
00:28:53.759 --> 00:29:00.359
But obviously there's a lot of kind of something kind of coronation street regional going on in the 1st half.

413
00:29:00.599 --> 00:29:05.579
Then there's a lot of unseen slapstick in the 2nd half, which I'm not convinced was even any good at the time.

414
00:29:06.359 --> 00:29:11.160
Because all this slapstick is, you know, slapstick requires rehearsal and precision.

415
00:29:11.339 --> 00:29:12.000
Yeah, yeah.

416
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:19.740
And all the slapstick in this, like with hitting Ian on the head as a prime example, is not funny because it doesn't, it's not framed well.

417
00:29:19.799 --> 00:29:24.839
It's slow. sound effect isn't even in time with the action.

418
00:29:25.380 --> 00:29:25.859
Yes.

419
00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:33.240
It's, it's, you know, that kind of stuff needs, you know, clowning is difficult and annoying.

420
00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:34.500
But it's difficult.

421
00:29:35.160 --> 00:29:36.480
I don't know what you're talking about.

422
00:29:36.539 --> 00:29:39.059
I see Doctor Who fans clowning on social media every day.

423
00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:51.119
And so we get these middle episodes again.

424
00:29:51.180 --> 00:29:55.140
So, uh, nothing really sort of seems to properly land there.

425
00:29:55.140 --> 00:30:03.660
And it is making me think fondly of the velvet web and the screaming jungle and even old vase or wacky old vase or.

426
00:30:03.839 --> 00:30:07.200
Um, you know, those were fun and interesting and light.

427
00:30:07.259 --> 00:30:13.680
They were 25 minutes and then we were off, you know, there was even a sort of reasonable high concept one, I think, in the in the velvet web.

428
00:30:13.980 --> 00:30:15.480
There was fun stuff going on.

429
00:30:15.539 --> 00:30:21.660
Whereas here, like the thing on the Empire State building is fun or funny.

430
00:30:21.720 --> 00:30:23.039
Like it just doesn't work.

431
00:30:23.099 --> 00:30:24.119
It could have been funny.

432
00:30:24.299 --> 00:30:29.460
It's also not fully thought through because it's 1966, they outright say.

433
00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:33.779
And at no point, Ian and Barb, but turn to each other and go, what if we just took the elevator down?

434
00:30:34.200 --> 00:30:35.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

435
00:30:35.279 --> 00:30:35.700
Yeah.

436
00:30:35.880 --> 00:30:42.599
I think there's a thing where Barbara says I never thought of this before, but we could get home now.

437
00:30:43.559 --> 00:30:54.779
And I wonder whether that's a line of dialogue that's supposed to paper over it because I think they have actually thought about using the Dalek time machine to go back and get Vicky.

438
00:30:54.839 --> 00:30:55.980
They've already thought of that.

439
00:30:56.160 --> 00:30:58.079
So, yes, why don't they go home?

440
00:30:58.140 --> 00:30:59.940
So that doesn't make any sense.

441
00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:07.259
And I guess they're in a sort of terrible hurry or something or they don't want to abandon the doctor and Vicky, but no one even mentions it.

442
00:31:07.319 --> 00:31:08.339
Like no one says anything.

443
00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:16.140
I just wonder with the Empire State building scene, who saw that and thought, oh, yes, he could be a good companion.

444
00:31:16.380 --> 00:31:18.660
Like, I mean, hip hop is a great actor.

445
00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:19.619
He is.

446
00:31:19.740 --> 00:31:21.359
He is actually a really good actor.

447
00:31:21.660 --> 00:31:23.039
He's not good at being American.

448
00:31:24.660 --> 00:31:27.839
Maybe they did that scene and like, damn, this man is a really good sport.

449
00:31:27.900 --> 00:31:30.960
We can put him through all sorts of glory production schedules.

450
00:31:31.380 --> 00:31:34.200
If we'll put up with that, He can deal with Billy Hartman.

451
00:31:34.859 --> 00:31:37.140
I mean, maybe that was it.

452
00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:37.920
Maybe he was.

453
00:31:37.980 --> 00:31:43.619
He was like really good with William Hartner on the day and they've gone, oh, this is what I mean.

454
00:31:44.039 --> 00:31:45.000
That was part of it.

455
00:31:45.059 --> 00:31:46.259
He got really well with Bill.

456
00:31:46.740 --> 00:31:47.519
Right, right.

457
00:31:47.579 --> 00:31:48.180
I didn't know.

458
00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:48.900
I didn't know.

459
00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:54.180
So he was, like, he was really cast and then they said, can you come back in 2 weeks and be Stephen?

460
00:31:54.240 --> 00:31:55.799
Is that, is that what happened?

461
00:31:55.859 --> 00:32:00.359
Yeah, no, no, like they hadn't found someone to replace Jackie and William.

462
00:32:00.779 --> 00:32:08.700
And so they were fishing around for an actor and they saw him and went, oh, he gets on with the both of them, especially Bill Harnell.

463
00:32:08.759 --> 00:32:10.440
And why don't we ask him back?

464
00:32:11.339 --> 00:32:12.660
Kevin, can I ask you a question?

465
00:32:12.720 --> 00:32:15.660
Do you know anyone from Alabama and do they sound like that?

466
00:32:17.940 --> 00:32:20.220
I have met several people from Alabama.

467
00:32:20.640 --> 00:32:23.279
I was interacting with one just the other week.

468
00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:25.440
They do have very strong accents.

469
00:32:26.339 --> 00:32:31.319
In some ways, stronger than that, but nothing like it.

470
00:32:33.480 --> 00:32:38.640
It felt like a strange, like, this is someone from 4 bits of America all at once.

471
00:32:38.759 --> 00:32:39.180
Yeah.

472
00:32:39.180 --> 00:32:39.779
Yeah.

473
00:32:39.839 --> 00:32:44.039
And just the kind of them was trying to be taxan, I think. was something about that.

474
00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:46.559
He sounded like Valeen from not slanting.

475
00:32:46.920 --> 00:32:52.200
And then the guy, the guy doing the New York accent as well at the beginning is pretty terrible.

476
00:32:52.440 --> 00:32:56.220
And again, he's delivering lines that are kind of meant to be funny.

477
00:32:56.279 --> 00:32:58.980
The, you know, the quick way down and all of that.

478
00:32:59.519 --> 00:33:03.539
Like that's not a funny joke, particularly, but it is a joke of some kind.

479
00:33:04.259 --> 00:33:13.980
Yeah, it's, it's, it's your typical uh, joke that tour guy would tell. a very disaffected manner, but he's neither disaffected nor funny.

480
00:33:15.119 --> 00:33:16.920
It's also a joke in need of payoff.

481
00:33:16.980 --> 00:33:20.880
In order for that to be funny, you need to see somebody go over the edge by the end of it.

482
00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:23.819
We should have seen a Dalek takeout Morton Dill.

483
00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:27.420
It is funny that Morton Dill isn't killed as well.

484
00:33:27.480 --> 00:33:36.240
And I guess because it is comedy, they don't want to do that, but it is sort of odd that they just leave and don't kill him.

485
00:33:36.660 --> 00:33:38.160
It would have been funnier if they did.

486
00:33:39.359 --> 00:33:40.920
Also would have given it some emotion.

487
00:33:41.339 --> 00:33:42.180
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

488
00:33:45.180 --> 00:33:46.859
So that's kind of terrible.

489
00:33:46.920 --> 00:33:53.940
I think they're Mary Celeste stuff, again, like is why, you know, like I don't get that either.

490
00:33:54.359 --> 00:33:59.759
You can see Doctor Who in real time for decades after kick itself for blowing the Mary Celeste that early in that bad week.

491
00:34:00.660 --> 00:34:04.200
You can just see Carnival of Monsters going, god damn it, we already did it.

492
00:34:04.980 --> 00:34:06.240
It wouldn't have stopped them, though.

493
00:34:06.420 --> 00:34:06.779
Really?

494
00:34:07.500 --> 00:34:12.239
Oh, curse the back of curse of the black spot going, damn it, we can't do the Mary Celeste.

495
00:34:12.900 --> 00:34:23.400
It is actually funny that some spinoff media has done it according to TARDIS Wikia, because it makes the point that the chase has since been contradicted at some point.

496
00:34:23.699 --> 00:34:25.139
But it also, it's not the Mary Celest.

497
00:34:25.199 --> 00:34:25.679
Mary.

498
00:34:25.739 --> 00:34:27.300
It is a Mary, Mary.

499
00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:35.460
Okay, so the other the only thing is the wiki actually notes that, and the wiki says, it's often misspelled as Mari.

500
00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:37.079
Yeah, but it's actually M-AR.

501
00:34:37.619 --> 00:34:39.659
So it says Mary Celeste on the thing.

502
00:34:39.900 --> 00:34:45.000
Ian calls it the Mary Celeste, and then Barbara calls it the Mary Celeste.

503
00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:47.280
Celeste, because she's her history picture.

504
00:34:48.300 --> 00:34:50.579
So she actually does pronounce it wrongly.

505
00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:55.679
And the subtitles on the on the DVD, at least, have her misspelling it as well.

506
00:34:58.739 --> 00:35:05.699
And then we get the just the bafflingly odd journey into Terror episode.

507
00:35:06.480 --> 00:35:11.820
And I think I remarked at the time what was interesting about it is the doctor's theory.

508
00:35:12.119 --> 00:35:15.059
So this is another kind of idea that this is a comedy, isn't it?

509
00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:20.579
Because the doctor comes up with the theory that they're in the human subconscious and he will not let that go.

510
00:35:21.119 --> 00:35:23.579
No, and he's definitely...

511
00:35:23.579 --> 00:35:24.539
Ian's just like, no.

512
00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:25.619
Yeah, yeah.

513
00:35:25.679 --> 00:35:36.059
But then we can't, and we see that it's the Festival of Ghana from 1996. by Peking, which is now called Beijing, and certainly at the point in future that it is, it would be Beijing.

514
00:35:36.119 --> 00:35:36.539
Yeah.

515
00:35:36.659 --> 00:35:37.079
Yeah.

516
00:35:37.139 --> 00:35:38.219
It's 1996.

517
00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:39.599
So it's the distant past.

518
00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:43.440
It's the year I was born.

519
00:35:46.739 --> 00:35:47.219
Wow.

520
00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:50.159
I think I've got shirts, that old Kevin.

521
00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:52.199
You may have a VHS that old.

522
00:35:52.739 --> 00:35:55.019
You're a fishman for the human imagination.

523
00:35:55.500 --> 00:35:58.920
I won a prize for best short story, but I write a under 25 that year.

524
00:36:00.659 --> 00:36:01.559
I was 25.

525
00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:06.360
It's bad in all sorts of ways.

526
00:36:06.420 --> 00:36:10.260
But what is interesting, of course, is at this moment in the program.

527
00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:13.920
It could be that the Tarness can land in the human subconscious.

528
00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:15.119
You know what I mean?

529
00:36:15.179 --> 00:36:22.800
And I think celestial toy maker, obviously, kind of makes it canonical that the doctor can land in weird spaces.

530
00:36:23.699 --> 00:36:26.340
The mind robber, feel like. somewhere very strange.

531
00:36:27.360 --> 00:36:29.280
Yeah, the land fiction for goodness sake.

532
00:36:29.340 --> 00:36:30.119
I mean, what's that?

533
00:36:30.179 --> 00:36:35.340
But a representation of a thing that is an important part of the human mind.

534
00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:36.780
A liminal space.

535
00:36:36.900 --> 00:36:37.739
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

536
00:36:37.800 --> 00:36:39.539
So, like, I like that idea.

537
00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:45.960
Like, I think that idea is charming and it doesn't seem very terry nation-ish because he does tend to be sort of quite literal, I think.

538
00:36:46.139 --> 00:36:47.099
He's so literal.

539
00:36:47.219 --> 00:36:47.699
Yeah.

540
00:36:49.920 --> 00:36:58.860
And here, I think the last time I podcasted about this, I explained that the doctor and the Daleks are attacked by a Dracula and a...

541
00:36:58.860 --> 00:36:59.760
Frankenstein.

542
00:37:00.059 --> 00:37:02.519
Like that's literally what we have here.

543
00:37:02.579 --> 00:37:07.440
We don't have Dracula from the book and we don't have Frankenstein from the book.

544
00:37:07.500 --> 00:37:11.340
We literally have them from like Hammer horror films or whatever.

545
00:37:11.760 --> 00:37:12.119
Yeah.

546
00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:15.840
And also, I don't understand why Dracula's voice has to be pre-recorded.

547
00:37:17.159 --> 00:37:18.599
Because he's got a...

548
00:37:18.599 --> 00:37:20.519
Because he can't get his mouth around the teeth.

549
00:37:21.059 --> 00:37:21.960
It's so weird.

550
00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:32.039
It's a statement on meta fiction and it's post-modern because Dracula just keeps reciting catchphrases. just like the Doctor Who companions have been reduced to it at this point.

551
00:37:32.280 --> 00:37:34.440
I don't know something like that. love that.

552
00:37:35.400 --> 00:37:37.079
There's supposed to be robots, aren't they?

553
00:37:37.139 --> 00:37:45.119
Yeah, so like, I always read that as the reason, like, it's pre-recorded because they're robots and it's on a tape.

554
00:37:45.719 --> 00:37:46.199
Right.

555
00:37:46.619 --> 00:37:49.980
And so now is the doctor, a robotic amusement park attraction.

556
00:37:50.579 --> 00:37:51.480
That's next week.

557
00:37:52.679 --> 00:37:55.019
Dalek saw them and thought, this is a great idea.

558
00:37:55.559 --> 00:37:58.860
They're like, oh, why couldn't we kill mostly convincing Doctor Who?

559
00:38:00.300 --> 00:38:05.880
Maybe they were just like, hey, that robot absolutely just rocked our world and nearly broke us into little bits.

560
00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:07.380
I bet we can do that to the humans.

561
00:38:09.719 --> 00:38:16.860
And of course, the ghost, the gray lady is the famous Rosalind de Winter of insect movement by...

562
00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:17.880
Yeah, yeah, pretty awesome.

563
00:38:18.239 --> 00:38:18.780
Amazing.

564
00:38:19.380 --> 00:38:22.559
The one who sort of gets exterminated without a sound effect.

565
00:38:23.159 --> 00:38:23.639
Yes.

566
00:38:23.940 --> 00:38:24.900
Does it actually take?

567
00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:28.199
I can't tell if she's actually taken out by it or not. she keeps screaming.

568
00:38:30.360 --> 00:38:32.760
Like a like a teenage girl at the shops.

569
00:38:38.820 --> 00:38:49.199
But again, like that, none of that's really fun or menacing, and it doesn't work in any way, and there are some really bad kind of production errors in there with people just standing around waiting to start acting.

570
00:38:49.260 --> 00:38:53.099
Is that the episode where Barbara's just standing with her back to everyone and doesn't think she's on camera?

571
00:38:55.619 --> 00:38:56.460
Very odd.

572
00:38:57.239 --> 00:38:59.159
Yeah, it's very odd.

573
00:38:59.280 --> 00:39:01.260
And so I think what is fun.

574
00:39:01.320 --> 00:39:13.980
I think it's Kevin who has kind of nailed what's fun about this, is that you're just hanging around with these guys while they don't have a proper Doctor Who story, but you get to see them in action together and there's a pleasure in that.

575
00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:23.639
And, you know, again, we split the party up, so we get the girls and the boys separate and interacting and, you know, like nothing particularly thrilling is happening.

576
00:39:23.820 --> 00:39:26.760
But we like them and we like hanging out with them.

577
00:39:27.300 --> 00:39:38.820
I think my favourite part of, I think, episode five, maybe, is when they're talking about, oh, shouldn't the doctor pretend to be the robot and go outside and trick the Daleks?

578
00:39:38.940 --> 00:39:40.980
They're like, oh no, that's a stupid idea.

579
00:39:41.099 --> 00:39:44.400
And the doctor's like, and then just wanders off to do it.

580
00:39:44.460 --> 00:39:45.360
It's tremendous.

581
00:39:45.539 --> 00:39:47.940
I think that's great And it doesn't work.

582
00:39:49.079 --> 00:40:00.480
There's a sense of graduation to the characters at some points here, just in general, of being able to know each other like that, or even, like in episode one, there's a moment where they're walking through in the desert and Vicky's just like, well, at least it is an acid pool, you know?

583
00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:03.659
Like, this is all old after them, and that's kind of charming.

584
00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:07.260
Like speaking of Richard Martin's terrible direction.

585
00:40:07.980 --> 00:40:19.619
The throwaway of the line that reveals to them that it's the the robot is a robot is the robot is that he calls Vicky Susan.

586
00:40:19.860 --> 00:40:20.280
Yes.

587
00:40:20.280 --> 00:40:22.019
And that gets lost.

588
00:40:22.619 --> 00:40:28.320
I, in fact, I noticed it this time, but I think I've failed to notice it for many years.

589
00:40:28.559 --> 00:40:30.900
I don't think I was aware that that was what it was.

590
00:40:30.960 --> 00:40:32.280
I thought it was because...

591
00:40:32.579 --> 00:40:34.199
This was the time I realised that too.

592
00:40:34.260 --> 00:40:36.360
Yeah, because it looked like someone else entirely.

593
00:40:37.800 --> 00:40:38.940
Well, there was that as well.

594
00:40:39.300 --> 00:40:50.219
But I thought at the time, because at that moment, I think that you're supposed to think that Barbara and Vicky, with our doctor, even though it looks nothing like him, that Bill Hartnell's playing the robot over here.

595
00:40:50.519 --> 00:40:51.780
It wasn't a postage stamp.

596
00:40:51.780 --> 00:40:52.619
Yeah.

597
00:40:52.679 --> 00:40:53.940
Well, yeah, yeah, no, no, I know.

598
00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:55.559
But I was watching it on my phone, to be fair.

599
00:40:56.099 --> 00:40:56.579
Oh, yeah.

600
00:40:56.579 --> 00:40:57.840
So you're like old school now.

601
00:40:57.960 --> 00:41:00.539
Yeah, that's right. much higher reservation.

602
00:41:00.539 --> 00:41:03.599
Yeah, that's right. 6251 screen.

603
00:41:03.659 --> 00:41:04.019
Exactly.

604
00:41:05.699 --> 00:41:09.420
So the structure here is very different from Keys of Mariners.

605
00:41:09.480 --> 00:41:23.039
And Keys of Marinace basically has a one part story at the beginning, the sort of framing story, and then it has, you know, episodes two, three, and 4 are all individual stories, episode 5 spills over into episode six.

606
00:41:23.099 --> 00:41:28.860
You get sort of one. 5 episodes on millennials, or in millennials, it's a town.

607
00:41:29.340 --> 00:41:33.300
And then we go back to the Yardec leader of the alien Vord.

608
00:41:33.840 --> 00:41:43.800
Here, though, it's like 2 kind of rather dismal episodes on a radius, then those 3 things, the flights are entirety, and then the Jody and Terra episode.

609
00:41:44.099 --> 00:41:53.460
And then, you know, we have 2 episodes on the planet Mechanus, and that's probably the closest to actually having a Doctor Who story that we have.

610
00:41:54.719 --> 00:41:59.519
But even then all we do is escape and let someone else kill the Daleks.

611
00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:05.340
Maybe Terry Nation was out of ideas because he used so many of her keys and mariners.

612
00:42:05.639 --> 00:42:12.420
You could only write a couple of, you know, post-it notes and a synopsis for episode one.

613
00:42:12.599 --> 00:42:14.460
It's execution though.

614
00:42:14.519 --> 00:42:18.480
Like the 1st half of Dalek Master plan is basically this again.

615
00:42:19.800 --> 00:42:20.820
Yeah, no, it is.

616
00:42:21.059 --> 00:42:21.480
No.

617
00:42:21.900 --> 00:42:24.119
We go there, we'll go there, we'll go there, we'll go there.

618
00:42:24.179 --> 00:42:26.760
And it's, but it's got a thrust and excitement.

619
00:42:26.760 --> 00:42:29.820
And I think because it was ready more in time.

620
00:42:30.539 --> 00:42:31.920
Because there is something going on.

621
00:42:32.219 --> 00:42:37.500
I mean, the great thing about that is that that's like 3 months where Doctor Who just does this.

622
00:42:37.739 --> 00:42:38.460
You know what I mean?

623
00:42:38.519 --> 00:42:43.260
Where Doctor Who is about the time destructor and the Daleks wanting to kind of take over the solar system and stuff like that.

624
00:42:43.619 --> 00:42:46.019
And like that's really compelling and interesting.

625
00:42:46.260 --> 00:42:49.019
Whereas this is just 6 weeks of larking about.

626
00:42:49.619 --> 00:42:52.139
And I guess the chase is a good idea.

627
00:42:52.199 --> 00:42:55.260
I mean, if you're thinking about what to do with the Daleks next.

628
00:42:55.920 --> 00:43:10.320
Like the one thing that Terry does manage to do very well, I think, which he doesn't do in the Pertuy era, is to get the dialects to do something really significantly different each time or get them in a significantly different kind of environment each time.

629
00:43:10.920 --> 00:43:22.619
And so, you know, it's their home planet and they're set up and then it's, they invade Earth, which is incredibly striking and interesting and, and, you know, gives some great visuals even though Richard Martin's directing them.

630
00:43:22.980 --> 00:43:29.519
And then you get the chase, which again, you know, like he, he, the Daleks are now the doctor's opposite.

631
00:43:29.579 --> 00:43:34.440
You know, they've graduated to becoming his greatest enemy and they can do what he does.

632
00:43:34.679 --> 00:43:38.460
And so they actually fundamentally change the structure of the program.

633
00:43:38.519 --> 00:43:41.099
You know, the idea that there's someone else travelling in space.

634
00:43:41.159 --> 00:43:49.500
It's like Carolyn Seymour is the evil leaper or even, you know, in the next story where we get another person from the doctor's planet.

635
00:43:49.559 --> 00:43:56.699
We see another TARDIS, which is slightly spoiled by this, the sort of dumber Tardis. this story.

636
00:43:57.360 --> 00:44:04.500
And then the dialects master plan. like those all those kick things up a notch and and do do something new and interesting.

637
00:44:04.679 --> 00:44:11.880
Whereas Planet of the Daleks is just kind of the Daleks warmed over and Death of the Daleks is Planet of the Daleks kind of warmed over as well.

638
00:44:12.059 --> 00:44:23.940
And both of them have charms, like I'm a big fan of both of those stories, but they're not super new or inventive in the way that these 60s Dalek cereals are that Terry does.

639
00:44:24.059 --> 00:44:32.400
But I mean, the problem is that the chase is the brilliant idea and we're kind of out of ideas after that, basically.

640
00:44:32.400 --> 00:44:35.159
I feel like, so I don't know about you guys.

641
00:44:35.219 --> 00:44:39.360
I used to read a lot of the books, like the Terrence Dick's books.

642
00:44:39.420 --> 00:44:45.059
So shows that I'd never seen were really lurid in my imagination.

643
00:44:45.599 --> 00:44:48.420
And then I would see them, things like...

644
00:44:48.420 --> 00:44:51.360
The Taylor Convasion of Earth, which is a great book.

645
00:44:51.420 --> 00:44:52.559
It's really exciting.

646
00:44:52.920 --> 00:45:00.960
And then it's like a bit of a slog. with Belaclava Jenny pushing tortmund around from days on end.

647
00:45:02.099 --> 00:45:05.639
But the same happens in reverse.

648
00:45:05.699 --> 00:45:11.699
Like when I see something like this, I watch it and I go, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's limitations.

649
00:45:11.760 --> 00:45:13.860
It's you know, the 60s are difficult.

650
00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:15.179
The direction is terrible.

651
00:45:15.239 --> 00:45:17.099
There's people standing in front of the speakers all the time.

652
00:45:17.460 --> 00:45:20.820
But my brain goes to novel land.

653
00:45:21.179 --> 00:45:25.920
So in a way, I remember this in a really exciting way.

654
00:45:25.980 --> 00:45:29.219
Like this is a really exciting story where heaps of stuff happens.

655
00:45:29.280 --> 00:45:38.519
Like that Frankenstein's monster picking up a Dalek and throwing it is amazing in my head, even though it's quite prosaic on screen.

656
00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:43.440
And it should be incredible because it's it's a dalek having the better gotten of it.

657
00:45:43.500 --> 00:45:44.940
Like it's, it's happening.

658
00:45:45.360 --> 00:45:47.280
We've never seen a dialect picked up and thrown.

659
00:45:48.420 --> 00:45:49.139
Actually, have.

660
00:45:49.800 --> 00:45:50.760
In the evasion of Earth.

661
00:45:50.820 --> 00:45:51.300
Oh, yes.

662
00:45:51.360 --> 00:45:52.559
Which is very funny there too.

663
00:45:53.159 --> 00:45:54.900
Yeah, yeah, it falls in half there too.

664
00:45:55.019 --> 00:45:55.619
Yeah, yeah.

665
00:45:55.980 --> 00:46:00.179
The dalek that falls off the Mary Celeste also falls in half, doesn't it?

666
00:46:00.239 --> 00:46:01.260
Like it is just a feed.

667
00:46:01.380 --> 00:46:03.599
Yes, it hits the water and just...

668
00:46:03.599 --> 00:46:09.000
This one that almost falls in half as it comes onto the screen in this...

669
00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:12.599
On a radio, I think it's like...

670
00:46:12.840 --> 00:46:13.500
Wobbling.

671
00:46:14.159 --> 00:46:19.559
One of the Dalek operators, at one point, lifts up the casing and walks.

672
00:46:19.559 --> 00:46:24.420
Like, and walks to get over, like, a camera cable or something.

673
00:46:25.860 --> 00:46:28.440
But yeah, in my head, this is incredible.

674
00:46:28.559 --> 00:46:31.860
And I think it has the bones of a fun story.

675
00:46:31.920 --> 00:46:34.380
It's just that it's, yeah.

676
00:46:34.440 --> 00:46:39.780
And like you were saying earlier, Kevin, about the, you know, spending time with the people.

677
00:46:39.900 --> 00:46:44.099
Like, watching Barbara make a dress for Vicky, like, oh, how often did this go on?

678
00:46:44.099 --> 00:46:45.000
All the time?

679
00:46:45.780 --> 00:46:46.559
Almost certainly.

680
00:46:46.980 --> 00:46:47.880
That awful noise.

681
00:46:48.420 --> 00:46:50.099
That's wonderful, isn't it?

682
00:46:50.159 --> 00:46:50.579
No, no.

683
00:46:50.699 --> 00:46:51.840
They are an awful noise.

684
00:46:52.019 --> 00:46:53.219
It's terrific.

685
00:46:53.519 --> 00:46:54.300
So much fun.

686
00:46:55.199 --> 00:46:59.639
Barbara couldn't make a dress for Susan because she couldn't trust her with the scissors.

687
00:46:59.820 --> 00:47:01.019
Yeah, I think that was it.

688
00:47:01.260 --> 00:47:03.780
That's why there were scissors, though, I think. isn't it?

689
00:47:03.900 --> 00:47:04.800
That's why there were scissors.

690
00:47:04.860 --> 00:47:06.000
There was some dressmaking going on.

691
00:47:06.300 --> 00:47:07.739
My mother used to make dresses.

692
00:47:07.800 --> 00:47:09.239
It just seems like an extraordinary thing.

693
00:47:09.300 --> 00:47:10.440
I never got to wear any of them.

694
00:47:10.800 --> 00:47:12.239
Oh my mum used to make them all the time.

695
00:47:13.800 --> 00:47:16.260
Get your simplicity and your butterick patterns.

696
00:47:17.579 --> 00:47:18.780
It's incredible, isn't it?

697
00:47:18.840 --> 00:47:19.619
It's very odd thing.

698
00:47:31.800 --> 00:47:36.420
I mean, I was excited to work on a TV show called The Chase because it was named after...

699
00:47:36.599 --> 00:47:43.440
I was so disappointed when it wasn't based on the chase. a game show.

700
00:47:43.500 --> 00:47:44.579
I was so disappointed.

701
00:47:44.639 --> 00:47:45.960
It did have a Doctor Who companion.

702
00:47:46.019 --> 00:47:48.119
Weren't they going to make this into a movie at one point too?

703
00:47:48.659 --> 00:47:50.400
like a 3rd Dalek movie, that was this.

704
00:47:50.519 --> 00:47:51.719
Yeah, so bizarrely.

705
00:47:51.780 --> 00:47:52.920
So we have the mechanism.

706
00:47:52.980 --> 00:47:53.820
After you were even.

707
00:47:54.119 --> 00:48:00.960
So we have the mechanoids and the mechanoids, I think, are actually kind of maybe the best thing about this.

708
00:48:01.860 --> 00:48:02.880
They make 3 of them.

709
00:48:02.940 --> 00:48:04.619
There seem to be 3 physical props.

710
00:48:05.699 --> 00:48:06.539
They're massive.

711
00:48:07.079 --> 00:48:07.920
You know what I mean?

712
00:48:08.219 --> 00:48:15.420
So, I mean, that scene where they're all in the lift with it, like, right up against it because they're in this sort of tiny set.

713
00:48:15.480 --> 00:48:17.579
It was kind of adorable.

714
00:48:18.719 --> 00:48:24.420
There's 2 of them, one trying to get past the other one. just keep reversing it, going forward, reversing people.

715
00:48:25.079 --> 00:48:26.699
In fact, they're actually some powers.

716
00:48:27.119 --> 00:48:33.239
But 3 of them caught fire because for actually Lambert kept trying to light her cigarette. gun.

717
00:48:33.599 --> 00:48:35.280
But I mean, they're great.

718
00:48:35.400 --> 00:48:37.800
And, you know, again, it's the usual thing.

719
00:48:37.860 --> 00:48:39.239
I mean, they're just robots.

720
00:48:39.539 --> 00:48:42.900
So apparently any kind of robot can really defeat the Daleks.

721
00:48:42.960 --> 00:48:50.280
It can be, you know, a fake Dracula in a haunted house for a festival or something like a scary haunted house.

722
00:48:50.340 --> 00:48:52.139
And these are just servants, aren't they?

723
00:48:52.559 --> 00:48:56.400
They're kind of designed to kind of build the city and look after the people.

724
00:48:57.000 --> 00:48:59.519
Oh, why couldn't we get the planet of the robot Dracula?

725
00:48:59.579 --> 00:49:00.900
Oh, yeah, that would have been great.

726
00:49:01.019 --> 00:49:07.139
Imagine if they sent a whole bunch of Draculas ahead to build the city. popping in to say something, not even swishing a cape.

727
00:49:07.860 --> 00:49:19.800
And so the idea, the way that they speak as well, that's a code, and so if you can understand the code, then they'll make you dinner and do everything that you tell them to do, but no one can understand the code.

728
00:49:20.400 --> 00:49:25.320
I'm just imagining Dracula doing that dialogue English.

729
00:49:28.139 --> 00:49:28.559
Stop.

730
00:49:29.820 --> 00:49:34.260
The code is impenetrable, like much many of our computers today.

731
00:49:34.320 --> 00:49:40.260
Like if we had to like work this computer and just type into the code, I'd be like, no, I've broken.

732
00:49:40.320 --> 00:49:40.980
I don't know how works.

733
00:49:42.719 --> 00:49:45.360
So I think that they're, I mean, I think that they are cool.

734
00:49:45.420 --> 00:49:47.579
I think that the city looks incredible.

735
00:49:47.639 --> 00:49:49.860
The city looks just absolutely amazing.

736
00:49:49.920 --> 00:49:51.000
That model is great.

737
00:49:51.420 --> 00:49:53.820
You know, every bit, I think, is good as the original...

738
00:49:53.820 --> 00:49:58.619
I love all the retrofuturism, but it was just futurism back then, obviously. exactly.

739
00:49:59.159 --> 00:50:01.199
I do think they feel a little undercooked though.

740
00:50:01.800 --> 00:50:08.280
It feels like an interesting visual design, an interesting concept, and we just don't spend any time with them to make them interesting.

741
00:50:08.340 --> 00:50:11.340
Yeah, to make the sets work as part of the model.

742
00:50:12.480 --> 00:50:19.800
Like there's a couple of little shots of tiny little, tiny little... adorable. one of those.

743
00:50:21.420 --> 00:50:24.960
Have you watched the Constring series where the Daleks and the Mechanoids?

744
00:50:25.019 --> 00:50:25.380
Yes.

745
00:50:25.380 --> 00:50:28.920
Hang on. don't remember a thing about that.

746
00:50:29.159 --> 00:50:32.219
Doesn't Ashley Mahindra play one of them?

747
00:50:32.340 --> 00:50:33.059
Yeah, she does.

748
00:50:33.360 --> 00:50:34.800
She plays a mechanoid or a darling?

749
00:50:34.860 --> 00:50:35.579
She plays a mechanoid.

750
00:50:35.639 --> 00:50:36.059
Does she really?

751
00:50:36.119 --> 00:50:36.599
That's awesome.

752
00:50:36.659 --> 00:50:38.099
It's part she was born to play.

753
00:50:40.139 --> 00:50:42.360
I do love the mechanoids.

754
00:50:42.420 --> 00:50:45.360
I especially love the way they hurt the Daleks by giving them a little hug.

755
00:50:45.900 --> 00:50:47.099
Yeah, yeah, that's right.

756
00:50:47.280 --> 00:50:51.000
Just get their little pincers out and going, oh, little.

757
00:50:51.239 --> 00:50:52.380
Maybe that's what's killing them.

758
00:50:52.440 --> 00:50:53.159
It's kindness.

759
00:50:53.340 --> 00:50:54.840
They are allergic to kindness.

760
00:50:55.380 --> 00:50:56.699
Stop it, stop it.

761
00:50:56.760 --> 00:50:59.219
I do not like being touched either figuratively.

762
00:50:59.280 --> 00:50:59.880
Oh, literally.

763
00:51:00.719 --> 00:51:05.579
Can I just say, though, that we're on film for those scenes at the end.

764
00:51:05.639 --> 00:51:10.559
Like the big climactic battle and it's actually pretty good, I think.

765
00:51:11.039 --> 00:51:13.920
I don't think Richard turned up to the filming days. you think?

766
00:51:14.280 --> 00:51:15.599
You think if that's possible.

767
00:51:15.960 --> 00:51:21.119
Yeah, because the boat scene is amazing where everyone's being thrown off, like that's all quite terrifying.

768
00:51:21.480 --> 00:51:31.559
Um, the, the stuff on a radio looks great when they're on a film, like all the stuff on film feels like they've sent the 2nd unit.

769
00:51:31.619 --> 00:51:32.340
Who is someone good?

770
00:51:33.719 --> 00:51:41.219
Because, I mean, sometimes film, you know, like we observed on flights through entirety that Colin Baker's performance is much better on film than it is in the studio.

771
00:51:41.760 --> 00:51:50.940
And I think just because there's a level of realism, you know, the believability around just kind of being on location that kind of helps the performers.

772
00:51:51.300 --> 00:51:55.559
And, you know, there's more space, like Martin has more space, he's got film cameras.

773
00:51:55.559 --> 00:51:59.699
Because, I mean, it's not a battle that makes any sense, really.

774
00:51:59.760 --> 00:52:02.579
It is more like a comic strip, isn't it?

775
00:52:02.639 --> 00:52:04.199
Like you see bits and pieces.

776
00:52:04.260 --> 00:52:06.599
It's very kind of pop art in a way.

777
00:52:06.840 --> 00:52:12.539
You know, the, you know, the recut version of the Daleks that Benjamin Quinn.

778
00:52:12.599 --> 00:52:17.579
Oh, the colourful... that makes it kind of pop artie in a way that the Daleks isn't at all.

779
00:52:17.880 --> 00:52:21.179
Like the Daleks is rather daggy and kind of early 60s.

780
00:52:21.719 --> 00:52:26.159
Yeah, yeah, yeah. sort of late 50s in a way. you know, the long 50s really, right?

781
00:52:26.159 --> 00:52:27.119
In the 1960s.

782
00:52:27.179 --> 00:52:34.440
But I do think that the Daleks versus the mechanoids at the end is very kind of pop art and...

783
00:52:34.500 --> 00:52:37.800
Like, that's the other thing. there's editing with film.

784
00:52:37.860 --> 00:52:43.260
Like, you know, we know that the videotape was almost impossible to edit.

785
00:52:43.440 --> 00:52:52.500
So everything had to be done as live. which is why there are so many when you're Martinell mess ups because it's like, just keep going. do this again.

786
00:52:52.860 --> 00:52:54.780
Because I've got to do the whole thing from the beginning.

787
00:52:55.679 --> 00:53:02.579
And and maybe Richard, if it is Richard Martin who's running the film set, maybe he's just no good at studio.

788
00:53:03.119 --> 00:53:05.159
Yeah, maybe this is a limitation.

789
00:53:05.579 --> 00:53:08.639
He's trying to get like big high angle shots and getting the curtains in.

790
00:53:09.599 --> 00:53:14.519
He's trying to do that weird thing where William Hartnell was operating the TARDIS, but it's the camera.

791
00:53:16.619 --> 00:53:21.119
Also, I think too, that like when he fails, he fails in a particularly studio way.

792
00:53:21.360 --> 00:53:32.760
Like he fails at doing the big fights in the studio because it all has to be done. as live and the cameras can't keep up with what he wants to do and he hasn't somehow learned that that's an ongoing problem.

793
00:53:33.300 --> 00:53:36.480
But I do think that that is really great.

794
00:53:37.199 --> 00:53:39.900
And I also think the stuff at the end is really great.

795
00:53:39.960 --> 00:53:43.559
I mean, let's talk about the big cast changes that happen at the end of this story.

796
00:53:44.519 --> 00:53:48.659
I think Peter Purvis is incredibly charming immediately.

797
00:53:49.380 --> 00:53:49.980
Immediately.

798
00:53:50.219 --> 00:53:51.599
Yeah, just so good.

799
00:53:52.079 --> 00:53:53.820
And he's going to carry the program.

800
00:53:54.239 --> 00:53:54.719
I know.

801
00:53:55.139 --> 00:53:55.679
I know.

802
00:53:56.400 --> 00:53:58.500
Which they never bring back, which is very upsetting.

803
00:53:58.860 --> 00:54:00.480
It did die in the fire, I'm afraid.

804
00:54:00.480 --> 00:54:02.219
I didn't want to break it to you, Kevin.

805
00:54:02.280 --> 00:54:06.599
It's upsetting No, it was carrying a chest he was running.

806
00:54:06.599 --> 00:54:07.199
TARDIS.

807
00:54:07.260 --> 00:54:07.920
All right, sorry.

808
00:54:08.159 --> 00:54:09.659
Okay, just drops it.

809
00:54:10.199 --> 00:54:12.360
It was a burnt syndrome.

810
00:54:12.360 --> 00:54:15.840
I'm sure Big Finnish have a box set about it to be coming out any day now.

811
00:54:16.739 --> 00:54:18.539
Isn't it Iris Wild Time's best friend?

812
00:54:19.619 --> 00:54:22.380
I'm going to say, hasn't Paul Mars wishing many books about him?

813
00:54:24.059 --> 00:54:28.440
So, so, I mean, I just think he's superb instantly.

814
00:54:28.500 --> 00:54:31.619
And the doctor's reaction to him is wonderful, isn't it?

815
00:54:31.679 --> 00:54:33.780
Like, I'm glad to meet you, Stephen Taylor.

816
00:54:33.840 --> 00:54:40.199
Like instead of being grumpy like you might expect or something like that, he's just absolutely charmed by him instantly.

817
00:54:40.500 --> 00:54:48.900
And it's Peter Purvis that we have to thank, I think, for, you know, the success of that run at the beginning of series three, I think.

818
00:54:48.960 --> 00:54:53.699
You know, he's just properly good and can hold up the show.

819
00:54:53.760 --> 00:54:54.719
He's the leading man.

820
00:54:54.780 --> 00:54:55.440
He's really great.

821
00:54:56.039 --> 00:54:56.400
Yeah.

822
00:54:56.400 --> 00:55:08.099
I mean, one of my favourite quotes ever about Doctor Who from Not we is in The Wife in Space where she says, why isn't this show called Ian?

823
00:55:10.019 --> 00:55:11.760
Yeah, Doctor Who does nothing?

824
00:55:13.920 --> 00:55:28.019
I have to say, the biggest ignominy of this entire 6 parts is the sacrilege that's committed against the barbarian. when Ian just uses it to trap a Dalek into a hole.

825
00:55:28.139 --> 00:55:38.519
It's I can't steal. 2nd story in a row because in the previous story, he unravels the cardigan in order to find the way through the museum.

826
00:55:38.940 --> 00:55:42.539
And so when he asks for her cardian, she says, oh, not again.

827
00:55:42.780 --> 00:55:43.260
Yes.

828
00:55:45.119 --> 00:55:48.000
And then she puts on a card, she can buy more now.

829
00:55:48.960 --> 00:55:54.179
But she does put on that thing and Ian calls it her battle dress, which I just think is absolutely great.

830
00:55:54.539 --> 00:55:56.340
And it's a superb outfit.

831
00:55:56.400 --> 00:55:59.699
I mean, those outfits with the slacks that Barbara wears are so good.

832
00:56:00.059 --> 00:56:01.380
It's a tactle neck.

833
00:56:01.559 --> 00:56:02.760
It is a tactle neck.

834
00:56:03.179 --> 00:56:04.679
She looks magnificent, you know.

835
00:56:04.739 --> 00:56:06.059
She's amazing in everything.

836
00:56:06.239 --> 00:56:10.800
She always like, Barbara is the best thing in the 1st 2 seasons of this show.

837
00:56:11.159 --> 00:56:12.360
Oh, yeah, I've heard so much.

838
00:56:12.960 --> 00:56:16.139
This entire show, to be honest. how much she wants to look at things.

839
00:56:16.199 --> 00:56:18.900
Like as soon as they're on the Maricelesse.

840
00:56:19.260 --> 00:56:20.340
I've got to look at a boat.

841
00:56:20.400 --> 00:56:21.300
I love a boat.

842
00:56:21.960 --> 00:56:22.679
It's wonderful.

843
00:56:23.099 --> 00:56:26.099
But I, and, and so I actually found.

844
00:56:26.219 --> 00:56:33.900
So my flight through entirety, which flight through entirety itself caught up with, was that I just wanted to watch the Barbara era all the way through.

845
00:56:34.019 --> 00:56:36.119
Like I just wanted to see all of her things.

846
00:56:36.179 --> 00:56:38.639
It was the 1st time that I ever watched a recon.

847
00:56:38.639 --> 00:56:42.360
I was watching Marco Polo in that in that run.

848
00:56:42.659 --> 00:56:49.500
And then I just ended up watching it all the way through because Flight Through Entirety happened and caught up with like caught up with the watch through.

849
00:56:50.340 --> 00:56:54.719
And it's the only time I've done the fly through entirety is for that.

850
00:56:55.380 --> 00:56:57.659
Like, those 2 are so great.

851
00:56:57.719 --> 00:57:00.300
And the way that that story ends.

852
00:57:00.780 --> 00:57:14.039
Like the way that they do the ending, and I had always thought that they didn't do the scene where Barbara and Ian and the doctor say goodbye, that we don't see that.

853
00:57:14.219 --> 00:57:17.219
So we see the fight and we see the doctor's reaction.

854
00:57:17.760 --> 00:57:20.820
We see Vicky persuading him to help them.

855
00:57:21.659 --> 00:57:25.800
Then we see them go into the Dardus, I guess.

856
00:57:26.579 --> 00:57:27.360
DARDIS.

857
00:57:29.519 --> 00:57:34.500
And then just Vicky and the doctor leave and we never actually see the scene where they say goodbye.

858
00:57:35.519 --> 00:57:38.579
And I thought that was a mistake, but I don't think that now.

859
00:57:38.699 --> 00:57:44.400
I think I think that that that would have been too hard to watch.

860
00:57:45.480 --> 00:57:54.300
And what I found really properly moving this time was how sad the doctor is when he leaves the when he leaves the dialect time capsule.

861
00:57:54.420 --> 00:58:01.320
He's really properly sad and you're very rarely asked to sympathise with the doctor.

862
00:58:01.440 --> 00:58:09.420
Do you remember the shock that you feel when Christopher Eccleston tears up in the end of the world and you sort of think, 0 my god, the doctor has feelings.

863
00:58:09.539 --> 00:58:10.440
I've forgotten.

864
00:58:10.800 --> 00:58:13.440
Same as at the end of the Green Death. like the...

865
00:58:13.500 --> 00:58:13.860
Yeah.

866
00:58:14.639 --> 00:58:19.019
John Pertwee's doctor just being like, I'm glad she's happy, but I'm not happy.

867
00:58:19.500 --> 00:58:19.920
Yeah.

868
00:58:20.219 --> 00:58:27.179
But I just found that really heartbreaking, particularly since the doctor, the doctor is very silly and grumpy.

869
00:58:27.300 --> 00:58:33.960
You know, like he can't express how much he loves them in any other way than just getting super cross with them.

870
00:58:34.559 --> 00:58:35.519
It's a tantrum.

871
00:58:35.579 --> 00:58:36.900
Yeah, throwing a tantrum.

872
00:58:37.440 --> 00:58:37.980
It is.

873
00:58:38.039 --> 00:58:38.699
He like a child.

874
00:58:38.760 --> 00:58:40.139
He's not in charge of his emotions.

875
00:58:40.199 --> 00:58:41.880
He's his granddaughter out.

876
00:58:42.719 --> 00:58:43.559
Then leaves her.

877
00:58:43.559 --> 00:58:45.780
With a little...

878
00:58:45.840 --> 00:58:49.559
I think this is so much better because Barbara is an adult and can hold her own to him.

879
00:58:49.619 --> 00:58:56.159
So we get the actual butting of heads of what they want rather than the doctor choosing for them.

880
00:58:56.159 --> 00:58:58.679
And for one last time, too.

881
00:58:58.739 --> 00:58:59.519
Do you know what I mean?

882
00:58:59.579 --> 00:59:02.699
Like she she gets to sum up the relationship as well.

883
00:59:03.059 --> 00:59:18.599
Like all of those things that we think are kind of new series things or, you know, like Dodo gets sent to live in a farm on the country or something like that, you know, like all of those terrible companion departures that we have for just contract roulette reasons throughout the run of the show.

884
00:59:19.019 --> 00:59:23.940
Whereas this is really properly considered, it's the 1st good companion departure.

885
00:59:23.940 --> 00:59:31.260
And, you know, like our 2nd good kind of replacement cast member arriving.

886
00:59:31.320 --> 00:59:32.880
Those are both done well, aren't they?

887
00:59:32.940 --> 00:59:33.659
The rescue's great.

888
00:59:33.900 --> 00:59:36.000
You know, Stephen arriving here is great.

889
00:59:36.360 --> 00:59:42.840
I mean, this companion departure is still, I think, one of the most affecting ones in the history of the show.

890
00:59:42.900 --> 00:59:44.039
It's really properly.

891
00:59:44.460 --> 00:59:45.659
Also because it's joyous.

892
00:59:45.960 --> 00:59:50.280
Like so many times companions leave and it's like, oh, it's sad.

893
00:59:50.400 --> 00:59:51.960
I want to travel in time in Spain.

894
00:59:52.079 --> 00:59:53.039
I want to be in the show.

895
00:59:53.820 --> 00:59:55.380
I'm really sad.

896
00:59:55.920 --> 00:59:59.760
Yeah, I don't want to go and live with these weird people in the 60s, but here I am.

897
01:00:01.139 --> 01:00:02.940
Yeah, I'm from the Victorian era.

898
01:00:03.179 --> 01:00:06.239
Well, I try to play some seaweed, but for some reason, looks like soap.

899
01:00:06.840 --> 01:00:17.340
I think a lot of the like happy companions leaving on their own terms, departures don't really get what makes this work because the companions walk off a little too easily.

900
01:00:17.400 --> 01:00:23.820
There's been a lot of, you know, I remember a lot of people praising the departures under Jody Whitaker's tenure for being like, well, they were happy.

901
01:00:23.940 --> 01:00:25.260
They weren't the end of the world, all that.

902
01:00:25.320 --> 01:00:29.099
It's like, well, sure, but they didn't leave an emotional impact whatsoever.

903
01:00:29.519 --> 01:00:30.960
It wasn't even a drop in the puddle.

904
01:00:31.260 --> 01:00:35.760
Whereas this, you actually get to feel the sad feelings as well as the joy and it feels more complete.

905
01:01:01.920 --> 01:01:04.139
Well, that's all the time we have for this week.

906
01:01:04.199 --> 01:01:09.360
We'll be back next week for a completely doctor free episode in mission to the unknown.

907
01:01:10.260 --> 01:01:30.059
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us on our website, 500yearDiary.com, where you'll find our social media links as well as links to all of our other podcasts, including the entirety of flight through entirety, which comprises every episode of our 4 Doctor Who podcasts.

908
01:01:30.900 --> 01:01:36.480
Until next time, we'll be waiting for you here in the dark recesses of the human minds.

909
01:01:37.739 --> 01:01:39.480
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

910
01:01:39.960 --> 01:01:40.619
Good night.

911
01:01:41.039 --> 01:01:41.880
Ta-ta.

912
01:01:41.940 --> 01:01:42.300
Good night.

913
01:01:53.579 --> 01:01:59.400
That was 500 year diary starring Nathan Bottomley, Kevin Bernard, Adam Richard, and James Selwood.

914
01:01:59.519 --> 01:02:01.679
The theme was composed by Cameron Lamb.

915
01:02:01.980 --> 01:02:08.820
This episode, pushed up in the schedule, was recorded on the 6th of June 2026 and released on the 6th of August.

916
01:02:09.840 --> 01:02:18.360
If you've got time after the tag this week will be including a loving and affectionate musical tribute to the work of Terry Nation, brought to you by Peter and Simon.

917
01:02:18.539 --> 01:02:19.619
So stay tuned.

918
01:02:37.739 --> 01:02:38.820
What do you think?

919
01:02:39.119 --> 01:02:42.360
What are we, sort of, an hour and 21 minutes?

920
01:02:42.420 --> 01:02:42.840
Oh, really?

921
01:02:43.019 --> 01:02:44.340
I reckon we probably have it now.

922
01:02:44.400 --> 01:02:47.099
I reckon there's probably an out there, for sure.

923
01:02:47.219 --> 01:02:48.000
That was so much fun.

924
01:02:48.059 --> 01:02:51.960
I could have done that for another hour and a half . thought it was about 30 minutes.

925
01:02:52.980 --> 01:02:56.880
Yeah, no, it's like an hour and 22 We've got recording there, hour and 20.

926
01:02:57.119 --> 01:02:57.780
Yeah, yeah.

927
01:02:57.960 --> 01:02:58.320
Yeah.

928
01:02:58.380 --> 01:03:05.460
But yeah, unless anyone has any sort of closing statement, but I think we did end on the departure.

929
01:03:06.059 --> 01:03:06.420
Yeah.

930
01:03:06.480 --> 01:03:07.980
I think it's it's fun.

931
01:03:08.039 --> 01:03:10.860
Like it's it's badly handled.

932
01:03:10.920 --> 01:03:23.280
It's a mess behind the scenes, obviously, but everyone on screen is having a good time and that's kind of infectious. like you never buy into how the Daleks are clearly being lifted and pulled across things.

933
01:03:23.400 --> 01:03:24.900
There wheels on the bottom of the tartars.

934
01:03:26.400 --> 01:03:34.920
There's swathes of canvas, but everyone is selling it so much that you're like, oh, yeah, that's just what it looks like on that planet, maybe.

935
01:03:35.880 --> 01:03:38.699
I mean, I have never read the, I've never read the book.

936
01:03:38.820 --> 01:03:40.920
I've never...

937
01:03:41.579 --> 01:03:43.199
It's a John Peel, isn't it?

938
01:03:43.500 --> 01:03:44.099
Understood?

939
01:03:45.360 --> 01:03:46.260
Oh, I don't know.

940
01:03:46.920 --> 01:03:48.000
I think it's a later book.

941
01:03:48.059 --> 01:03:53.340
I don't think it's great. sort of ideas, you know.

942
01:03:54.659 --> 01:03:55.619
Yeah, okay.

943
01:03:55.679 --> 01:03:56.340
All right.

944
01:03:56.400 --> 01:03:57.960
Well, I think I think, what do you think?

945
01:03:58.019 --> 01:03:58.800
I think we might be done.

946
01:03:59.400 --> 01:03:59.880
You think?

947
01:03:59.940 --> 01:04:00.360
Yeah.

948
01:04:01.320 --> 01:04:02.519
All right, I don't have to do it.

949
01:04:02.519 --> 01:04:04.260
It is a John Peel.

950
01:04:04.320 --> 01:04:05.400
It is a John Peel.

951
01:04:06.059 --> 01:04:07.920
So it's not going to be funny.

952
01:04:08.760 --> 01:04:12.239
It's not going to be even slightly funny. might even be an actual rape in it.

953
01:04:13.079 --> 01:04:16.619
It might be funny without realising it, which would be the truest possible statement to this story.

954
01:04:17.699 --> 01:04:21.000
Doesn't he set the dialects in 1863 or something?

955
01:04:21.119 --> 01:04:24.179
Like, I think he thinks the Daleks are said in the 19th century.

956
01:04:24.719 --> 01:04:25.500
I once did.

957
01:04:25.800 --> 01:04:46.619
I once very briefly had a Twitter account called Doctor Who Facts, and I used to post facts, like, um, Toda Lemcoff is the only homosexual ever to work in the cast or crew of Doctor Who, or um, Jill, Jill Tarrant, that's the only actress that appears in any Terry Nation story.

958
01:04:49.739 --> 01:04:50.400
Stuff like that.

959
01:04:50.699 --> 01:04:53.579
Or, you know, 6 production eras in the Colin Baker era.

960
01:04:53.639 --> 01:04:58.860
The script for time lash 2 not sufficiently thick to ward off and assault from Gary Downey.

961
01:05:03.179 --> 01:05:04.619
I can't remember where I was going with that.

962
01:05:05.099 --> 01:05:06.239
I don't know but it was fun.

963
01:05:06.300 --> 01:05:08.219
It was John Teal and it was funny.

964
01:05:08.219 --> 01:05:09.000
John Teal.

965
01:05:09.059 --> 01:05:20.760
No, it was, it was, it was something like 6 Doctor Who stories said in 18, 1863, and it was like Ghostlight, Genesis of the Daleks, and I don't know the savages or something.

966
01:05:20.760 --> 01:05:21.960
I can't remember.

967
01:05:22.559 --> 01:05:26.099
But John Peel, I think, does said it in 1863.

968
01:05:32.280 --> 01:05:33.840
In my imagination.

969
01:05:35.340 --> 01:05:37.260
I see terry nation.

970
01:05:38.699 --> 01:05:43.739
Right in the same script each time.

971
01:05:44.280 --> 01:05:49.679
In his mind, a delegation With trance is insulation.

972
01:05:51.420 --> 01:05:59.159
And slaves are made to mine With no imagination.

973
01:06:00.000 --> 01:06:01.920
Here comes Terry Nation.

974
01:06:03.059 --> 01:06:07.980
There's radiation everywhere in space place.

975
01:06:09.239 --> 01:06:11.699
By halfway through part four.

976
01:06:12.480 --> 01:06:14.639
They're cutting through the door.

977
01:06:15.539 --> 01:06:20.940
There's so much you can do with bombs in Doctor Who.

978
01:06:22.980 --> 01:06:28.199
We love Terry Nation Mass extermination.

979
01:06:29.519 --> 01:06:32.579
We love Terry Nation, yeah.

980
01:06:35.699 --> 01:06:45.420
We love Terry Nation, Collin incubation We love Terry Nation, yeah.

981
01:06:46.679 --> 01:06:52.199
It's a crazy situation To think of terry nation.

982
01:06:53.579 --> 01:06:57.599
Adding space to everything.

983
01:06:59.159 --> 01:07:01.380
There'll be dollics, every story.

984
01:07:02.460 --> 01:07:04.920
Taryn and Mark Cory.

985
01:07:06.300 --> 01:07:13.739
And slithers, slithering There's no imagination.

986
01:07:14.940 --> 01:07:23.039
And little complication to my upbeasts, Mara and magic gem.

987
01:07:24.360 --> 01:07:26.699
The core's on desperate.

988
01:07:27.480 --> 01:07:30.059
We're born on Mechanus.

989
01:07:30.840 --> 01:07:36.059
But you can name the falls With just two syllables.

990
01:07:38.039 --> 01:07:40.079
We love Terry Nation.

991
01:07:41.099 --> 01:07:43.199
Space communication.

992
01:07:44.280 --> 01:07:46.440
We love Terry name.

993
01:07:46.559 --> 01:07:55.739
Nation, yeah We love Jerry Nation, sentient, vegetation.

994
01:07:56.820 --> 01:08:00.059
We love terry nation, yeah.

995
01:08:01.860 --> 01:08:04.019
With no imagination.

996
01:08:05.639 --> 01:08:07.860
Here comes Terry Nation.

997
01:08:08.519 --> 01:08:13.619
And now we realise that all his cliches.

998
01:08:14.639 --> 01:08:17.340
Our presence in each script.

999
01:08:18.119 --> 01:08:23.520
Which is mostly ripped off Dalek's master plan.

1000
01:08:24.060 --> 01:08:27.359
He's Terry, so he can.

1001
01:08:27.359 --> 01:08:30.420
We love Terry Nation.

1002
01:08:31.619 --> 01:08:33.479
Mining operation.

1003
01:08:34.680 --> 01:08:37.979
We love cherry nation.

1004
01:08:41.039 --> 01:08:46.020
We love cherry nation, same plot on rotation.

1005
01:08:47.159 --> 01:08:50.579
We love cherry nation.

1006
01:08:53.640 --> 01:09:11.279
We love cherry nation Rock home frustration But we love c Nation, yeah We love terry nation, but all Their creation.

1007
01:09:12.180 --> 01:09:18.060
We love cry Yeah