WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-08-30 at 19:34:29 1 00:00:34.020 --> 00:00:42.299 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to 500 Year Diary, the only Doctor Who podcast thinking of making this an annual event. 2 00:00:43.020 --> 00:00:43.799 I'm Nathan. 3 00:00:44.039 --> 00:00:44.820 I'm Brendan. 4 00:00:44.939 --> 00:00:45.600 I'm James. 5 00:00:46.200 --> 00:00:54.539 And I'm Mr. Rumbold's 1st speaking part doing battle with a 9 foot slithering latex, pussy thing for this episode. 6 00:00:56.039 --> 00:00:58.740 It's the 21st of November, 1964. 7 00:00:59.520 --> 00:01:05.700 It's been a bit less than 10 months since the Daleks all stopped working for no particularly urgent reason. 8 00:01:05.939 --> 00:01:09.780 And since October, the show has been back on the air for its 2nd season. 9 00:01:10.319 --> 00:01:16.859 A season made possible in no small part because of Terry Nation's 13 scripts for season one. 10 00:01:17.939 --> 00:01:25.980 Tonight, 11.40000 people have tuned in on the promise of the return of the bug eyed monsters that Terry created for them last year. 11 00:01:26.939 --> 00:01:28.980 What has he got ready for them this time round? 12 00:01:29.099 --> 00:01:33.359 Let's find out as we discuss the Dalek invasion of Earth. 13 00:01:52.319 --> 00:02:15.719 So, last time we were here on 500 year diary, We were talking about this as the second coming of the Daleks to Doctor Who, but obviously today we're really here to talk about Terry Nation, but I don't think a podcast episode about the Dalek invasion of Earth can really possibly be said to have taken place unless we've given Richard Martin a jolly good smacked bottom. 14 00:02:16.919 --> 00:02:18.180 Which was an ad lib. 15 00:02:19.139 --> 00:02:20.879 And I didn't realise that until this. 16 00:02:20.939 --> 00:02:22.620 How many times have we done this now, Jones? 17 00:02:23.639 --> 00:02:28.259 watched this and the look on Carol Anne's face and thought, there's no time to retake, isn't there? 18 00:02:30.960 --> 00:02:32.699 There is a lot of ad living in this one. 19 00:02:33.360 --> 00:02:37.560 Yeah, I think considering it's the tightness of Terry's script is delivered. 20 00:02:40.020 --> 00:02:45.240 Next week, things don't go quite so well for Bill, I think, and there are quite a lot of fluffs. 21 00:02:45.300 --> 00:02:48.180 He's actually generally in better form here. 22 00:02:49.620 --> 00:03:08.580 But again, we just have these sort of terrible problems that we identified in the Daleks a couple of weeks ago where we've got these big fight sequences and things that take place and no one seems to know what to do with a camera and just everything is a little bit slapdash and unimpressive. 23 00:03:09.360 --> 00:03:15.900 Not in Josh Snare's wonderful movie length reedit of this story, which makes it quite pacy. 24 00:03:15.960 --> 00:03:17.699 And I switched that, didn't you? 25 00:03:17.759 --> 00:03:20.159 Yeah, it was I thoroughly enjoyed it. 26 00:03:21.300 --> 00:03:22.139 Nice touch. 27 00:03:22.199 --> 00:03:24.719 He used the soundtrack from the movies. 28 00:03:25.439 --> 00:03:26.099 Oh, okay. 29 00:03:26.340 --> 00:03:27.120 Very great. 30 00:03:27.539 --> 00:03:30.900 I mean, the music is one aspect of the production that goes incredibly well. 31 00:03:30.960 --> 00:03:31.379 I think. 32 00:03:31.919 --> 00:03:34.500 And we never hear from Francis Chagrin again. 33 00:03:34.560 --> 00:03:35.099 Yeah. 34 00:03:35.340 --> 00:03:36.840 He was born in Romania, actually. 35 00:03:37.259 --> 00:03:37.680 Okay. 36 00:03:37.740 --> 00:03:38.039 Yeah. 37 00:03:38.280 --> 00:03:41.099 Hence all the romantic chord progressions. 38 00:03:42.599 --> 00:03:43.500 It's a good score. 39 00:03:43.560 --> 00:03:43.919 It is. 40 00:03:44.039 --> 00:03:44.939 Kunky clunked. 41 00:03:45.479 --> 00:03:47.219 It's still library music, isn't it? 42 00:03:47.639 --> 00:03:50.639 No, no, he's, he does specially compose it. 43 00:03:50.699 --> 00:03:54.539 This is when we pretend to not know things so that we get audience inclusivity. 44 00:03:54.719 --> 00:04:02.280 Yeah, so they actually died in the wheelie bin bumper skirts of knowledge of this thing. aren't we? 45 00:04:02.340 --> 00:04:05.819 We can actually tell you what time of the morning they trundled over the bridge. 46 00:04:05.879 --> 00:04:10.259 Which of the Dalek operators was a bit hung over and lost control of the tricyclet. 47 00:04:11.039 --> 00:04:12.419 I hope so after... 48 00:04:12.419 --> 00:04:15.840 Three, 300? 49 00:04:17.459 --> 00:04:18.600 It was a very long time. 50 00:04:18.839 --> 00:04:19.740 It was a very long time. 51 00:04:19.980 --> 00:04:21.180 The music is beautiful. 52 00:04:21.240 --> 00:04:24.120 I want also the problem with Richard. 53 00:04:24.180 --> 00:04:34.139 We did discuss the problem with Susan in the 1st recording of this, which, of course, is also referencing C.S. Lewis, which we shall never do again, because we've done plenty of that, and he's had enough attention. 54 00:04:34.439 --> 00:04:34.980 Thank you. 55 00:04:35.759 --> 00:04:36.839 Still on my enemies list. 56 00:04:37.259 --> 00:04:45.660 Yeah, but speaking of that, Richard Martin's use of really horrible big clunky cameras bigger than Daleks is actually pretty good. 57 00:04:46.019 --> 00:04:55.439 And I'm thinking about the shots of the external set of the Dalek saucer with the plywood ramp of doom. rattling. 58 00:04:55.439 --> 00:05:03.060 I'm actually feeling captivated by this and I've got to say, it wasn't too excited watching it again because it has its flaws. 59 00:05:03.480 --> 00:05:06.360 This has got pace and drama unexpectedly. 60 00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:07.740 No, I agree. 61 00:05:07.800 --> 00:05:08.220 I agree. 62 00:05:08.579 --> 00:05:11.459 But I do think that is kind of down to Terry in lots of ways. 63 00:05:11.939 --> 00:05:23.699 We talked last year about the location work because our 1st time round, which is, you know, was 2014 or something we 1st podcasted on this a long time ago. 64 00:05:24.180 --> 00:05:28.319 I remember just being hugely impressed by the amount of location work. 65 00:05:28.379 --> 00:05:29.639 It's incredible, isn't it? 66 00:05:29.699 --> 00:05:36.360 And right at the front in episode one, we get nothing sort of particularly thrilling or exciting. 67 00:05:36.420 --> 00:05:41.879 They're just going through a broken down warehouse or whatever, but just immediately it seems so much better. 68 00:05:42.300 --> 00:05:51.180 And I do think that while Richard Martin's work on location isn't perfect. best location work we've ever had. 69 00:05:51.360 --> 00:05:52.740 Well, at that point, yeah. 70 00:05:53.160 --> 00:05:53.879 That's right. 71 00:05:53.939 --> 00:05:57.240 But it is also pretty good, and it is better than his studio work, I think. 72 00:05:57.839 --> 00:06:01.259 I would say the location work is probably the best until we get to the war machines. 73 00:06:01.500 --> 00:06:02.160 Yeah, okay. 74 00:06:02.160 --> 00:06:04.439 And, you know, the war machines is London as itself. 75 00:06:04.620 --> 00:06:07.019 Here they've got to do London 200 years in the future. 76 00:06:07.560 --> 00:06:11.279 And aside from a lorry and a pleasure cruise, it's not too bad. 77 00:06:11.579 --> 00:06:12.899 And a museum of dead things. 78 00:06:13.139 --> 00:06:21.959 I mean, luckily, a lot of London is a bombed out... like post-war landscape in the early 19th. 79 00:06:22.019 --> 00:06:23.819 So we've started on K Starmer already. 80 00:06:26.339 --> 00:06:33.360 I do think part of the problem with the studio work is there's several parts which are just long in terms of duration wide shots. 81 00:06:33.420 --> 00:06:36.720 So, for instance, when Ian realised that Craddock has been robotised. 82 00:06:36.779 --> 00:06:39.420 And sorry, Terry, when exactly does that happen? 83 00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:40.920 Because the doctor's been laid on the table. 84 00:06:41.399 --> 00:06:46.980 And then Bernard K comes in 2 minutes later and then 2 minutes after that, there's explosions or whatnot. 85 00:06:47.040 --> 00:06:48.120 So when does Credit get repetized? 86 00:06:48.180 --> 00:06:52.439 But anyway, it's like, Craddock comes around the corner and Ian says, Craddock, and we just stay in wide shot. 87 00:06:52.620 --> 00:06:56.639 And I kind of look at Richard Martin's other work and Richard Martin loves cutting to a camera before it's ready. 88 00:07:00.180 --> 00:07:05.519 I have a feeling there's meant to be a close-up there and the camera's not in position and Richard's just gone, okay, I'm like for once. 89 00:07:07.439 --> 00:07:09.720 And you know, that's not a huge indictment. 90 00:07:09.779 --> 00:07:14.879 That is someone being as ambitious as Verity Lambert or Warris Hussein or David Whittaker. 91 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:19.740 And you see it in with interviews with him now and he's 90 something. 92 00:07:19.800 --> 00:07:23.879 He has incredible energy and you can imagine him up in the booth going, yeah. 93 00:07:23.879 --> 00:07:26.879 One, two, two, one, two, come. 94 00:07:27.060 --> 00:07:27.600 Move. 95 00:07:27.660 --> 00:07:28.379 Number four, move. 96 00:07:28.620 --> 00:07:30.300 Worst bingo game. 97 00:07:36.779 --> 00:07:38.639 Brendan pricks up on a very good point. 98 00:07:38.759 --> 00:07:43.259 Richard Martin's energy and nation's energy are one and the same. 99 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:45.899 And I was looking at this, you probably all discussed this. 100 00:07:45.959 --> 00:07:47.519 How many times have we recorded this trip? 101 00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:49.379 Well, this is the third. 102 00:07:49.439 --> 00:07:50.040 Thank you. 103 00:07:53.639 --> 00:07:57.420 There is that same enthusiasm in the face of reality. 104 00:07:58.199 --> 00:08:03.360 But why do they give him stories like, sorry, Richard Martin stories like the web planet? 105 00:08:03.660 --> 00:08:04.199 This one. 106 00:08:04.560 --> 00:08:07.199 These are the big mythic dramas. 107 00:08:07.259 --> 00:08:09.420 These are the big over the top, the circus performance. 108 00:08:09.480 --> 00:08:11.339 This is octopus without Roger. 109 00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:21.899 It's because of the ebb and flow, and the Joyce enthusiasm, and the fact that maybe he just does do the holy fool leap of faith thing and jump in and go, it's going to be great, guys. 110 00:08:21.959 --> 00:08:25.259 I'm very just sitting there going, I have no damn idea where's the Quait Ludes. 111 00:08:25.319 --> 00:08:26.100 Go ahead, Richard. 112 00:08:26.220 --> 00:08:27.360 Let's give it to Richard. 113 00:08:27.420 --> 00:08:33.840 He makes the studio happy in the brings everyone together in spite of everything that can possibly go wrong. 114 00:08:34.799 --> 00:08:39.179 And especially, I think also the cast really respond to Terry's script. 115 00:08:40.019 --> 00:08:41.820 They do up the game, don't they? 116 00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:47.820 Because even from its earliest conception, it was seen as a way to write out Carol Anne Ford. 117 00:08:47.940 --> 00:08:53.820 So Terry does put in moments of character and reflection for her. ankle bending. ankle bending. 118 00:08:54.000 --> 00:08:54.779 And fish cooking? 119 00:08:54.899 --> 00:08:55.620 Fish cooking. 120 00:08:55.679 --> 00:09:01.139 Well, the fish cooking was actually Carol Anne and Peter Fraser came up with that in rehearsal. 121 00:09:01.200 --> 00:09:03.779 It was just meant to be, they're sitting by a campfire cooking something. 122 00:09:03.899 --> 00:09:07.620 And they're like, every other episode so far, we've had a Frisson. 123 00:09:07.679 --> 00:09:09.600 We don't really have a free song in this episode. 124 00:09:09.779 --> 00:09:12.899 Why don't we build up to a kiss and then Bill comes in and breaks it up. 125 00:09:13.379 --> 00:09:14.279 Cock blocks. 126 00:09:14.340 --> 00:09:14.639 Yeah. 127 00:09:15.299 --> 00:09:16.139 Dock blocks. 128 00:09:17.220 --> 00:09:18.240 But dog blocks. 129 00:09:19.019 --> 00:09:21.899 Just looking at the cast's energy in this. 130 00:09:22.200 --> 00:09:25.559 This is the end of a 54 week production block. 131 00:09:25.980 --> 00:09:26.460 Wow. 132 00:09:26.940 --> 00:09:33.720 Now, I say 54 because we have the rejected pilot recording and we also have a recording of the dead planet where the soundtrack was unuseable. 133 00:09:33.840 --> 00:09:34.440 Oh okay. 134 00:09:34.500 --> 00:09:37.740 And so that had to be remounted between episodes 3 and 4 of the Daleks. 135 00:09:38.100 --> 00:09:43.019 And then we shoot an extra episode of Planet of Giants, which gets edited together. 136 00:09:43.500 --> 00:09:43.860 Yeah. 137 00:09:43.860 --> 00:09:46.559 So there is an extra 2 weeks added on. 138 00:09:46.620 --> 00:09:54.840 And yet, at the very end of this, the cast, our responding exactly the way they did 50 weeks ago. 139 00:09:54.840 --> 00:10:04.679 And I know they've had holidays here and there and whatnot, but I think they're responding to Terry's words and characterisations because he brings in a lot of supporting cast in this one. 140 00:10:04.919 --> 00:10:13.320 There's sort of a revolving door of, you've got Craddock, you've got Larry, you've got Baker, Jenny. 141 00:10:13.379 --> 00:10:18.720 Yeah, Dortmund as well, isn't there through the whole story and Tyler, and of course David. 142 00:10:18.779 --> 00:10:20.519 It's a big ensemble cast. 143 00:10:20.820 --> 00:10:27.000 But rather than go, oh, okay, I have to find something for all of them to do for 6 weeks, Craddock gets swapped out with Larry. 144 00:10:27.059 --> 00:10:33.899 Baker's only there for 2 episodes. then you've got Ashton and Wells in the back half of the story and Wells was only supposed to be in one episode. 145 00:10:33.960 --> 00:10:35.820 He only comes back because an extra didn't turn up. 146 00:10:36.539 --> 00:10:39.360 And Richard Martin enjoyed working with him and said, oh, why don't you come in again? 147 00:10:39.419 --> 00:10:42.360 And that's why Wells sort of has a really big character in his 1st appearance. 148 00:10:42.360 --> 00:10:49.080 And then in the last episode, he's just running around with a gun going, yeah, and then carrying a 2 by 4 because it was written for an extra that part. 149 00:10:49.620 --> 00:10:52.320 When we did the Daleks a couple of weeks ago here. 150 00:10:53.700 --> 00:11:00.360 There is something about the Daleks and the way it's directed and the way it's written, you know, it's very classic Golden Age science fiction. 151 00:11:00.419 --> 00:11:04.379 It's directed in this sort of sort of expressionist kind of way, I guess. 152 00:11:04.679 --> 00:11:06.480 We said probably the 1st time around. 153 00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:12.779 So it's very worthy, I think, but it does make some mistakes in pacing. 154 00:11:12.840 --> 00:11:14.759 I think episode 6 is really terrible. 155 00:11:14.820 --> 00:11:18.419 It keeps our main characters away from the Daleks for quite a long time. 156 00:11:18.419 --> 00:11:21.659 And it is very kind of lacking an incident. 157 00:11:21.720 --> 00:11:23.279 It's very stately. 158 00:11:23.639 --> 00:11:31.259 And then the madcap keys of marinace comes along, which is just lots of action and lots of changes of pace and lots of things happening. 159 00:11:31.620 --> 00:11:38.940 And here, I think, Darlic Invasion of Earth is, I think, his best script so far. 160 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:42.779 And I think it is because he actually manages. 161 00:11:43.019 --> 00:11:45.419 I mean, it's best of three, right, at this point. 162 00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:54.059 I think it's better than the Daleks because it is careful to be full of incident and give people things to do. 163 00:11:54.480 --> 00:11:58.200 Terry Nation's absolute superpower is splitting up the party. 164 00:11:58.440 --> 00:12:00.779 And so he splits the party into 3 groups. 165 00:12:00.840 --> 00:12:05.820 He gives us plot arcs that are happening over episodes that have different people involved. 166 00:12:05.940 --> 00:12:13.559 The whole thing has this sort of epic scale because it travels all the way around the UK and something has happened to the entire world. 167 00:12:13.799 --> 00:12:18.659 I just think it's really, really properly solid and enjoyable, I think. 168 00:12:19.919 --> 00:12:23.039 The Daleks, again, is worthy never to be repeated. 169 00:12:23.100 --> 00:12:36.840 We said last year that the Daleks in the Daleks were vastly better and more interesting than the Daleks in the Dalek invasion of Earth, but nevertheless, I just think this is the best story of the 3 that he's done so far. 170 00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:40.500 Does feel like a template for the entire future too. 171 00:12:41.460 --> 00:12:45.179 And it's our 1st invasion of earthy type story thing, isn't it? 172 00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:47.700 They're still getting right up until season 26. 173 00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:48.480 Yeah. 174 00:12:48.480 --> 00:12:59.940 I remember years ago, JR South All of the Strangers in Space Podcast and many others, had a series of books called You and Who, which was all about the sort of effect of Doctor Who on Us the Viewer. 175 00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:04.740 And he came up with the concept for a book of thirsts. 176 00:13:04.740 --> 00:13:15.000 And I don't think it was ever published, but I was going to write an article and I think we sort of came up with the idea together in that the censorites followed by this. 177 00:13:15.059 --> 00:13:22.620 The sensor rights is sort of Doctor Who's direction on paper of what the future will look like as in humanity's future. 178 00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:31.919 But then it's decided, no, we're going to do alien invasions and we're going to do what's the threat on earth here and now. 179 00:13:32.039 --> 00:13:42.480 And it's sort of like if you compare Stephen and Carol and John in the sense rights, who are all sort of very upstanding and up here, and very British like that, and you know. 180 00:13:42.659 --> 00:13:45.899 But then Terry Nation comes along with a Dalek invasion of earth. 181 00:13:46.019 --> 00:13:52.080 And something you said to David Whittaker was, in order to show that this is all over earth, I want a diversity of characters. 182 00:13:53.279 --> 00:14:02.399 And they did actually look into having more than just white people in the background, but the agencies they contacted couldn't provide a mix of extras for them. 183 00:14:02.460 --> 00:14:08.220 So Terry instead, in his 2nd draft scripts, specified regional accents around the UK. 184 00:14:08.460 --> 00:14:08.879 Right. 185 00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:13.259 Now, the production team would still try to work on securing people of colour in the background. 186 00:14:13.320 --> 00:14:13.980 It didn't happen. 187 00:14:14.220 --> 00:14:27.360 Well, that way it's kind of like you've got Craddock who's a little bit cockney, you've got Wells, who's from the west country, you've got Larry, who's Northern, and that was Terry kind of going, this is all over the world. 188 00:14:27.720 --> 00:14:31.919 This is happening everywhere, even if we're just showing London and Bedford. 189 00:14:32.399 --> 00:14:33.539 But it's mostly about Bedford. 190 00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:35.100 It is mostly about Bedford. 191 00:14:35.159 --> 00:14:41.940 And we do kill off like several continents and things in a way that we won't see happen again until parting of the ways, I think. 192 00:14:42.779 --> 00:14:49.019 Do you think that the Dalek invasion of Earth actually changes the future that the sense rights is setting? 193 00:14:49.740 --> 00:14:51.059 Oh. 194 00:14:51.059 --> 00:14:52.679 That's an interesting point. 195 00:14:53.340 --> 00:14:56.700 The sensor rights mentions being in the 29th century or something. 196 00:14:56.759 --> 00:14:58.440 So that's, you know, that's enough type. 197 00:14:58.679 --> 00:15:02.460 But I don't think we ever quite get the censorites future again. 198 00:15:03.059 --> 00:15:06.720 You know, humanity is treated in a more sort of complex manner. 199 00:15:06.899 --> 00:15:11.159 And I'm not dissing the sensor rights here because I think the sensor rights does do interesting things with psychology. 200 00:15:11.519 --> 00:15:12.899 From an universe point of view. 201 00:15:12.960 --> 00:15:14.460 That's a really good thought, James. 202 00:15:14.759 --> 00:15:18.000 Although we do know that the sense fear exists, thanks to the ood. 203 00:15:18.059 --> 00:15:34.860 So, well, in fact, what is kind of interesting is we go from this story to the rescue and we get to see that Britain, in particular, rebuilds after this invasion and that Vicky comes from that future. 204 00:15:34.860 --> 00:15:44.220 And then in the chase, which we'll be talking about quite soon, she actually talks about ancient New York having been destroyed in the Dalek invasion. 205 00:15:44.279 --> 00:15:46.620 So it is part of the history that she's learned. 206 00:15:47.039 --> 00:15:49.500 And so this is kind of the 1st time. 207 00:15:49.559 --> 00:15:52.559 It's kind of Doctor Who's best of both worlds. 208 00:15:52.620 --> 00:16:11.340 It's the 1st time a big historical event happens that changes the universe that Doctor Who takes place in because something here happens to Earth in the 22nd century, something that we're referring to 25 years later in the show and harking back to when the show returns in 20052. 209 00:16:11.940 --> 00:16:14.759 Luckily, Billy got off a bit better than Captain Picard. 210 00:16:14.820 --> 00:16:15.720 Yeah, that's true. 211 00:16:16.620 --> 00:16:20.039 It was a touch and go there for a bit though, at the end of one of those episodes. 212 00:16:20.340 --> 00:16:23.159 Yeah, he does have a galop going up and down over his head. 213 00:16:24.899 --> 00:16:25.559 That's right. 214 00:16:25.620 --> 00:16:26.700 The chicken rotisserie. 215 00:16:27.539 --> 00:16:28.620 Slash solarium. 216 00:16:29.159 --> 00:16:30.840 Is that Billy lying down for that one? 217 00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:31.679 Just tell a little map. 218 00:16:31.740 --> 00:16:32.159 It is, yeah. 219 00:16:32.279 --> 00:16:33.419 Oh, yes, that's in my contract. 220 00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:34.080 Thank you, dear. 221 00:16:34.379 --> 00:16:35.399 Yeah, straight on. 222 00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:36.480 She had a whole week off. 223 00:16:36.779 --> 00:16:40.379 Well, I know because of that bouncy bouncy bassinet of plywood. 224 00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:41.340 Oh, yeah. 225 00:16:41.340 --> 00:16:45.240 Everything that could have gone wrong almost did and then it did end it for this production. 226 00:16:45.659 --> 00:16:47.100 It is very weird that bit. 227 00:16:47.279 --> 00:16:50.519 Again, you know, splitting the party up, which happens all the time. 228 00:16:50.580 --> 00:17:05.400 We were talking about there's even just one moment where for no reason Bill tells Ian and Barbara to go off in this direction while he goes off in another direction around that building on the on the island of mariners for no particular reason. 229 00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:08.880 And here they all split up for... 230 00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:20.940 They all split up for various reasons, but that incredible episode where they drop the doctor and then go off in an adventure and then come back and pick him up, which is just absolutely kind of bizarre. 231 00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:22.200 But what are they going to do? 232 00:17:22.259 --> 00:17:24.000 You know, they're stuck with it. 233 00:17:24.480 --> 00:17:36.180 For those not in the know, what we're referring to is during rehearsal for the scene where the doctor saved from the Dalek ship, Richard McNef playing Baker, is meant to sort of carry him across the threshold of the ship. 234 00:17:36.180 --> 00:17:38.759 And because... 235 00:17:38.819 --> 00:17:47.460 And because the ramp of the Dalek ship had been damaged earlier in rehearsal, he lost his footing and dropped Hartnell on... 236 00:17:47.700 --> 00:17:53.279 The extras were marching in step, which you cannot do on a plywood ramp because you'll fracture your brain. 237 00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:54.779 Yes, exactly. 238 00:17:54.839 --> 00:17:55.079 Yeah. 239 00:17:55.140 --> 00:17:58.619 So, yeah, Richard McNef lost his footing, fell over, dropped Hartnell. 240 00:17:58.859 --> 00:18:02.039 On the ring around the pedestal, bottom of the pedestal. 241 00:18:02.099 --> 00:18:02.880 That was never comfortable. 242 00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:03.480 No. 243 00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:13.619 Like Hartnell was temporarily paralysed, but was able to complete the evening's recording, but his doctor then signed him off work for a week, which is why it's the following episode he's not in. 244 00:18:14.700 --> 00:18:15.900 Isn't it Edmund Warwick? 245 00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:17.039 It is Edmund Warwick. 246 00:18:17.519 --> 00:18:18.720 Who, in universe. 247 00:18:18.779 --> 00:18:20.279 Oh, travelling back in time. 248 00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:32.339 And Edmund Warwick, in full costume, was actually mistaken in the BBC canteen for William Hartnell on the day of recording with horrific results. which we'll discover next week. 249 00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:36.299 Were they viewing him through glasses, mate? 250 00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:38.039 screen. 251 00:18:38.220 --> 00:18:44.759 See, the funny thing about this is the regular cast very quickly figured out that the catering facilities at Lime Groove were awful. 252 00:18:44.819 --> 00:18:47.519 So always brought in a picnic lunch on recording. 253 00:18:47.880 --> 00:18:49.200 So they never even went there. 254 00:18:50.279 --> 00:18:55.859 So 3rd episode is rewritten with Hartnell's lines mainly given to David. 255 00:18:56.099 --> 00:18:58.920 Also a few to Carol Anne and some to Tyler at the end. 256 00:18:59.940 --> 00:19:10.319 But the main thing that was rewritten here from the 1st draft is they're meant to find sort of subterranean humans who have devolved into like morlocks under the ground. 257 00:19:10.740 --> 00:19:14.160 And that was removed in exchange for alligators. 258 00:19:14.220 --> 00:19:14.880 But guess what? 259 00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:26.339 When the web planet is underrunning in a few weeks' time and Richard Martin has to write some new material, Ian falls down a hole in the ground and phones these subterranean devolved creatures. 260 00:19:26.700 --> 00:19:27.420 Yeah, okay. 261 00:19:27.420 --> 00:19:29.099 No offence to Barbara Jaws. 262 00:19:30.779 --> 00:19:34.740 But it just kind of goes, okay, Terry's work is so good that when Richard has to get rid of it. 263 00:19:34.799 --> 00:19:38.160 I don't know if he was part of the decision to get rid of that. 264 00:19:38.700 --> 00:19:39.359 That is so good. 265 00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:40.140 In time lag. 266 00:19:40.259 --> 00:19:41.099 Again, yeah. 267 00:19:41.099 --> 00:19:41.700 Again. 268 00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:44.640 But yeah, Richard would have had access to early scripts. 269 00:19:44.700 --> 00:19:46.859 He's like, I'll just bring in this bit from Terry Dation. 270 00:19:47.339 --> 00:19:51.539 I mean, I think, you know, those are adorable, those little alligators. 271 00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:52.859 They're not alligators, aren't they? 272 00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:57.240 They're like tiny alligators Yeah, the same ones in the bath in Tintin's episode on Thumb. 273 00:19:58.019 --> 00:19:59.099 Yeah, yeah. 274 00:19:59.220 --> 00:20:00.299 I mean, they are adorable. 275 00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:06.480 And I guess what ends up happening is they're trying to scope out a way of escaping, and then they always intend to come back for the doctor. 276 00:20:06.660 --> 00:20:12.599 But it is a weird running in place thing, which is just kind of unavoidable because of what happened. 277 00:20:12.660 --> 00:20:18.480 And because you have Barbara's plot and you have Ian's plot as well, it's okay. 278 00:20:18.539 --> 00:20:20.819 The episode still kind of works, I think. 279 00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:26.160 It also, again, gives Susan some relationship development with David. 280 00:20:26.220 --> 00:20:28.980 You know, we will come to expect contract roulette. 281 00:20:29.339 --> 00:20:30.539 Thank you, Andrew Hodson. 282 00:20:30.900 --> 00:20:36.779 But here, they're actually listening to Carol Anne somewhat when she's saying, I don't have a character. 283 00:20:36.779 --> 00:20:37.559 Yeah. 284 00:20:37.559 --> 00:20:41.519 And attempting to give her a character as a sendoff. 285 00:20:41.940 --> 00:20:43.500 You could have started that earlier, but okay. 286 00:20:43.559 --> 00:20:45.599 I think it's an amazingly good thing too. 287 00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:48.420 There's 2 scenes that I think are really good. 288 00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:58.380 And the one is where she says that she never felt that she had any identity and she never belonged anywhere and stuff and that's obviously leading directly to her staying behind. 289 00:20:59.160 --> 00:21:06.059 But it's the scene where the doctor gets cross at Susan for saying, this is what David says we should do. 290 00:21:06.119 --> 00:21:07.259 Let's do that. 291 00:21:07.319 --> 00:21:09.359 And the doctor gets cross at her. 292 00:21:09.960 --> 00:21:12.059 And then David comes in... 293 00:21:12.059 --> 00:21:16.079 Follow Eddie cockle it ahead. woman, all words to that effect, yes. 294 00:21:16.140 --> 00:21:21.720 But then but then David comes in, he's kind of deferential to the doctor and the doctor like agrees with him. 295 00:21:21.779 --> 00:21:22.799 It's like really cold. 296 00:21:22.980 --> 00:21:25.140 Oh, no, he's a bit spanky, isn't he? 297 00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:25.799 Yes, all right. 298 00:21:25.859 --> 00:21:31.500 That's such a sweet scene though. where he then empathises and repeats her plan back to him. 299 00:21:31.980 --> 00:21:34.859 Yeah, and gives it to David. lets David have the decision. 300 00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:35.819 Do you know what I mean? 301 00:21:35.880 --> 00:21:37.019 It's so sweet. 302 00:21:37.740 --> 00:21:39.000 You just made us all think. 303 00:21:39.059 --> 00:21:45.539 Is it Terry that writes Billy's effectiveness is really just as a pugnacious child. 304 00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:47.460 He doesn't really know what he's doing. 305 00:21:47.579 --> 00:21:54.599 It's simply the fact that he's using age to his advantage and those lapels, the power of a pair of clutch lapels. 306 00:21:54.960 --> 00:21:55.799 Is that Terry? 307 00:21:56.880 --> 00:22:10.380 Well, I was going to say that, actually, in the 6th episode where the garlic is advancing on the doctor and we get that perspective shot, and I think it is the 1st big lapel grab, a defiant lapel grab, like, because we've had lapel grabs before, but this is the doctor staring down a monster. 308 00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:17.099 Terry specifies in the script that the doctor stands in view of the Dalek, gripping his lapels defiantly. 309 00:22:17.579 --> 00:22:18.059 Wow. 310 00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:21.180 So interesting, you should say that, Richard. 311 00:22:21.240 --> 00:22:25.319 I think he has picked up on it Because the war machines, like, honestly, makes panto of it. 312 00:22:26.279 --> 00:22:28.559 I think the doctor is a bit of a petulant child. 313 00:22:28.680 --> 00:22:35.160 We'll see that again next week when Barbara and Ian Lee, you know, and he's unable to show his real emotions, he just gets angry. 314 00:22:35.579 --> 00:22:39.720 And here, he does have, like, we've made fun. 315 00:22:39.779 --> 00:22:50.039 We've spent 12 years on this podcast and others making fun of the way that Billy locks Susan out of the TARDIS and then goes away. 316 00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:52.319 Like we're constantly making fun of that. 317 00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:57.000 But that speech, the one day I shall come back, speech is so good. 318 00:22:57.839 --> 00:23:00.299 You know, he could see Carol Anne on the monitor. 319 00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:02.220 I didn't realise that until this viewing. 320 00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:03.119 Yeah, yeah. 321 00:23:03.180 --> 00:23:04.980 Well, and it was 3 takes. 322 00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:06.420 How many times have we done this one? 323 00:23:09.599 --> 00:23:10.559 Yeah, it was thank you. 324 00:23:10.619 --> 00:23:11.700 It was 3 takes, wasn't it? 325 00:23:11.819 --> 00:23:12.359 To get it right. 326 00:23:12.420 --> 00:23:14.759 There was some noise and Billy fluffed a line and then, yeah. 327 00:23:15.119 --> 00:23:18.240 And she was basically in his eyelines standing under the monitor as well. 328 00:23:18.299 --> 00:23:20.819 So he could see the real Carolan in his periphery. 329 00:23:21.599 --> 00:23:22.380 Mooning him. 330 00:23:24.359 --> 00:23:26.579 How's that for a bottom that needs to be? 331 00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:30.839 sunshine I mean, I'm 23. can drink. 332 00:23:33.180 --> 00:23:34.019 Like a fish. 333 00:23:35.220 --> 00:23:36.359 Let's cook one now. 334 00:23:38.460 --> 00:23:40.019 It is an incredible speech. 335 00:23:40.019 --> 00:23:46.619 Next time we get a companion departure, which we'll talk about next week. 336 00:23:46.680 --> 00:23:52.380 I think it's streets ahead of this and one of the best companion departures of all time, even now. 337 00:23:52.859 --> 00:23:59.039 This one doesn't quite work because it is sort of weird behaviour from the doctor in some sort of way. 338 00:24:00.660 --> 00:24:01.319 Yeah, yeah. 339 00:24:01.500 --> 00:24:02.700 You don't quite buy it. 340 00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:06.420 But, you know, you have to remember, he doesn't really know where she comes from. 341 00:24:07.259 --> 00:24:08.819 Oh, are you lung burrowing? 342 00:24:09.240 --> 00:24:11.940 I don't know, I'm losing it. 343 00:24:12.299 --> 00:24:15.779 The real name is Liz Blaws. isn't it or something? 344 00:24:16.140 --> 00:24:17.579 There is law now, isn't there? 345 00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:23.759 Well, like law of it being rewritten at the last minute, because Disney cancelled the series. 346 00:24:25.140 --> 00:24:32.880 Well, of course, her real name is Finn Duclair of the House Duclair, if one believes Anthony Coburns, initial unearthly child script. 347 00:24:32.940 --> 00:24:33.599 Are you kidding me? 348 00:24:33.660 --> 00:24:34.740 So it goes. 349 00:24:34.740 --> 00:24:35.880 It's just French for Susan. 350 00:24:35.940 --> 00:24:36.480 Yeah, yeah. 351 00:24:36.839 --> 00:24:41.940 It goes from the doctor explicitly saying, her name's not Susan, it's Finn Duclair and when Ian challenges him. 352 00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:45.240 The doctor rounds and says, would you challenge a lord of Duclaire? 353 00:24:46.859 --> 00:24:52.920 Which then becoming, there's a reason his son won't let that ever be. 354 00:24:53.579 --> 00:24:56.339 And they're vicious enemies, the paladins who they're on the run from. 355 00:24:56.700 --> 00:25:07.559 And there's early draft groups of other things that mention the paladins as their enemy from the Galactic War, that gets watered down to, I was born in the 49th century, which gets watered down to. 356 00:25:07.619 --> 00:25:12.420 I was born in another time, another world. which totally better. is totally better. 357 00:25:12.480 --> 00:25:13.500 And... 358 00:25:13.559 --> 00:25:15.000 A lot of fog and it's super mysterious. 359 00:25:15.180 --> 00:25:16.380 Yeah, that's why I love it here. 360 00:25:16.619 --> 00:25:20.819 And there's no there's no record that Anthony Coburn disagreed with any of those notes. 361 00:25:21.119 --> 00:25:21.539 Okay. 362 00:25:21.539 --> 00:25:24.720 You know, writers will just sort of flush it out. 363 00:25:24.779 --> 00:25:29.940 I mean, you know, you're banging off than the typewriter in an Australian accent, you know, you've got, you know, got a lot of bang out there. 364 00:25:30.599 --> 00:25:36.240 I mean, the idea of leaving the doctor's past completely mysterious was always the right one. 365 00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:38.940 And some of us, yes. 366 00:25:39.180 --> 00:25:43.440 Some of us here might prefer that it had always remained so, Nathan hadn't they? 367 00:25:43.799 --> 00:25:43.980 absolutely. 368 00:25:44.039 --> 00:25:45.000 Although I love war games. 369 00:25:45.240 --> 00:25:45.960 I do too. 370 00:25:46.859 --> 00:26:09.599 I do think watching that last scene with Susan, I think what could have made it so much better, and this is, you know, the benefit of hindsight, and this is, unfortunately not how women were generally treated on television at the time, is if instead of David saying he knew you would never leave him, if Susan had said it, he knew I would never leave. 371 00:26:10.019 --> 00:26:10.440 Yeah. 372 00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:15.599 And so because like Susan looks traumatised at the end, which is upsetting. 373 00:26:16.559 --> 00:26:17.579 I've got no job. 374 00:26:17.640 --> 00:26:18.839 Yeah, that's right. 375 00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:19.980 She never had a job. 376 00:26:22.259 --> 00:26:24.960 So David is quoting her, isn't he? 377 00:26:25.319 --> 00:26:27.839 Well, she does say, I can't leave grandfather. 378 00:26:27.900 --> 00:26:28.259 He needs me. 379 00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:29.039 Okay, that's a good point. 380 00:26:29.099 --> 00:26:29.279 Yeah. 381 00:26:29.339 --> 00:26:36.660 Like I said, like, short, it would be better if she'd had that line, but he is actually quoting what she had said earlier in the story. 382 00:26:37.259 --> 00:26:37.980 That's a good point. 383 00:26:38.039 --> 00:26:38.400 Yeah. 384 00:26:38.579 --> 00:26:42.180 But, I mean, it is beautifully led up to in a way that doesn't always happen. 385 00:26:42.539 --> 00:26:45.420 I mean, you know, there's no saying that Mel is leaving. 386 00:26:47.940 --> 00:26:49.019 It's Dragonfire. 387 00:26:49.079 --> 00:26:51.240 She wanted a bit of rough. right. 388 00:26:51.599 --> 00:26:52.920 But Dibber had already left. 389 00:26:52.980 --> 00:26:53.279 Yes. 390 00:26:54.059 --> 00:26:57.720 So, so, you know, it doesn't completely work. 391 00:26:58.440 --> 00:27:07.019 But, you know, it still matters and we still get to see the doctor sad next episode and we do spend 2 episodes. dealing with the fallout of it, which I think is pretty good. 392 00:27:07.559 --> 00:27:08.099 Yeah, yeah. 393 00:27:08.160 --> 00:27:11.700 And also it's easy to criticise it now, but the show hadn't done it before. 394 00:27:12.539 --> 00:27:20.039 And we see, say, over with the Avengers, which is another similar show of the era that has regular cast changes. 395 00:27:20.039 --> 00:27:24.180 Only once do they actually do an episode of saying we're writing this character out. 396 00:27:24.539 --> 00:27:25.259 Yeah, yeah. 397 00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:29.700 Otherwise, they just disappear and they're hardly referenced the following series. 398 00:27:30.420 --> 00:27:34.920 Whereas Doctor Who kind of goes, we can't not give a proper sendoff. 399 00:27:34.980 --> 00:27:35.339 Yeah. 400 00:27:48.539 --> 00:28:01.980 This script started work around the time Marco Polo was airing, but discussions that started before that pretty much the robot by Anthony Coburn, better known today as the Masters of Luxor, had fallen through. 401 00:28:02.579 --> 00:28:05.099 Malcolm Hulk's The Hidden Planet had fallen through. 402 00:28:05.579 --> 00:28:10.619 So David Whittaker contacted Terry Nation to give us a 6 parter, and John Luca Roddy to give us a 4 parter. 403 00:28:10.920 --> 00:28:15.180 It sounded for a moment, like you said, the robot spy at Anthony Copurn. 404 00:28:17.220 --> 00:28:19.920 That explains a lot. played by Edmund Warwick. 405 00:28:21.480 --> 00:28:34.740 So even at that early stage, David Whittaker and Terry Nation were discussing bringing the Daleks back, but decided to do the keys of Marinace instead with the multiple locations as a way to write something quickly that didn't need a huge overarching plot. 406 00:28:34.980 --> 00:28:35.400 Right. 407 00:28:35.400 --> 00:28:37.200 But this still started that idea. 408 00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:42.359 And it was known that Carol wanted to leave at the end of the 52 episodes. 409 00:28:42.660 --> 00:28:43.079 Okay. 410 00:28:43.079 --> 00:28:48.480 But what was difficult was Terry writes a new script with a character called Seder. 411 00:28:48.539 --> 00:28:54.240 Now, she is described in the script as Anglo-Indian, but what that means at the time, a child of the British Raj. 412 00:28:54.299 --> 00:28:57.180 Yeah, she was the Cliff Richard all the time. 413 00:28:57.960 --> 00:28:59.759 Yep, Cliff Richard, Joanna Lumley. 414 00:28:59.819 --> 00:29:00.299 What have you? 415 00:29:00.420 --> 00:29:01.859 Jackie Pierce, Jackie Pierce. 416 00:29:02.039 --> 00:29:04.680 And Sader was written as Dortmund's daughter. 417 00:29:04.920 --> 00:29:09.000 Now, what happens is, one, she's written to someone younger than Susan. 418 00:29:09.779 --> 00:29:21.480 Two, they don't know if the series is continuing beyond Dalek Invasion of Earth, and Verity Lambert writes many memos to Donald Babistock saying there's no point in us writing out Carol Anne if we're ending the series. 419 00:29:22.019 --> 00:29:24.000 Can you please tell us if we have more episodes? 420 00:29:24.240 --> 00:29:24.779 That's right. 421 00:29:24.839 --> 00:29:25.740 It was really tight on the line. 422 00:29:26.220 --> 00:29:27.119 It was really tight on that. 423 00:29:27.180 --> 00:29:31.079 And Terry was only given this, what, really late in the day? 424 00:29:32.039 --> 00:29:36.539 Well, the original scripts come in June and we're shooting in late August. 425 00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:40.920 So it's 5 or 6 weeks between the 1st draft and the final draft. 426 00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:45.960 Bavistock only commissions the new episodes on August 14. 427 00:29:46.559 --> 00:29:48.539 The 1st location shoot is August 23. 428 00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:50.039 Oh, wow, okay. 429 00:29:50.460 --> 00:29:55.680 Now, by that time, David Whittaker is already rewriting Seder as an older character called Jenny. 430 00:29:55.740 --> 00:29:56.099 Yeah. 431 00:29:56.099 --> 00:29:58.019 Any reason for that? 432 00:29:58.559 --> 00:30:01.740 Well, I think they realised, oh, do we want another teen character? 433 00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:03.480 They probably couldn't cast her. 434 00:30:04.079 --> 00:30:06.299 Well, they Mind your language, you're still 10 years old. 435 00:30:07.680 --> 00:30:08.819 Well, this is the thing. 436 00:30:08.880 --> 00:30:21.180 She was an Anglo character, born in India, rather than someone of Anglo and Indian descent, because Verity wanted to get in Pamela Franklin, who was a 14 year old actress. 437 00:30:22.140 --> 00:30:41.940 Now, Verity starts making inquiries about Pamela Franklin on August 17, but by August 19, Jenny is now a one-off character, and Verity stops trying to get in touch with Pamela Franklin's agent, then on the 21st and Davies's cast. 438 00:30:42.420 --> 00:30:47.819 So we start off with Sader being a replacement for Susan, then up in the air because we don't know if we're getting more episodes. 439 00:30:47.940 --> 00:30:50.160 Then hold on, do we really want a 14 year old? 440 00:30:50.640 --> 00:30:57.900 Then make it an older character, then, oh, it can be a replacement character, but now it's too late to rewrite the script. 441 00:30:58.619 --> 00:31:04.019 Also, how distasteful taking another girl with you after dumping your granddaughter. 442 00:31:05.519 --> 00:31:06.420 Just give it to weeks. 443 00:31:07.500 --> 00:31:08.099 It's right. 444 00:31:08.160 --> 00:31:09.779 It's right that it happens in another story. 445 00:31:10.019 --> 00:31:10.619 Yeah, yeah. 446 00:31:10.619 --> 00:31:25.619 But this is another example of a writer going, oh, thanks, Terry, I'll have that because in the draft script, Sader is conspicuous by her absence in the last scene, because, you know, we say goodbye to Tyler, we say goodbye to David, where's Jenny? 447 00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:26.279 Oh, okay. 448 00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:27.299 Where is Jenny? 449 00:31:27.420 --> 00:31:30.539 Well, she's specifically not there because she's already snuck on board the Tartars. 450 00:31:31.319 --> 00:31:34.619 And the idea was we wouldn't end on Susan dropping her key. 451 00:31:34.680 --> 00:31:38.339 We'd come back to the TARDIS and the doctor just staring off into space. 452 00:31:38.400 --> 00:31:45.960 Barbara comes up and kisses him on the forehead and he says, oh, you silly old sentimentalist and you hear from the other side of the set, hello. 453 00:31:46.380 --> 00:31:46.980 Oh, wow. 454 00:31:46.980 --> 00:31:48.839 And say to her snuck in. 455 00:31:48.900 --> 00:31:52.740 Yeah, well, guess what David Whittaker does when he has to write Wendy Padbury into the show. 456 00:31:53.519 --> 00:31:54.420 Sticks her in a box. 457 00:31:56.220 --> 00:31:59.099 I actually think Jenny is really great. 458 00:31:59.279 --> 00:32:08.039 And I do want to use her as an example of talking about how bleak this script is because I do think it is actually nastier than Doctor Who generally should be. 459 00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:16.559 And it is nastier than the, Well, I mean, Terry helps himself to sort of giant plagues that kill 1000000s of people over and over again, doesn't he? 460 00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:17.279 And stuff. 461 00:32:17.339 --> 00:32:18.000 It is a thing. 462 00:32:18.420 --> 00:32:27.599 But like Jenny is super cynical and she's so much more interesting than the female character that he creates for the Daleks. 463 00:32:27.900 --> 00:32:33.720 Jenny is a much more interesting character than Dioni, who seems to have no characteristics other than being a... 464 00:32:33.720 --> 00:32:34.799 Being menaced by Ian. 465 00:32:34.920 --> 00:32:36.180 Yeah, yeah, being a woman. 466 00:32:36.599 --> 00:32:37.200 Darren. 467 00:32:37.319 --> 00:32:37.920 Darren. 468 00:32:39.960 --> 00:32:41.880 For the listener at home, that was her name. 469 00:32:42.299 --> 00:32:42.720 Yes. 470 00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:58.799 But what we do get is a very kind of low key character arc for her, where she starts off really, really kind of bitter and cynical, but then under Barbara's influence. 471 00:32:59.039 --> 00:33:05.339 Like she is clapping her hands with glare as Barbara's running Daleks over in the big truck and stuff. 472 00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:28.440 And I think she really is enjoying herself and that it's Barbara that brings her on board and in a way, I think it would have worked for Barbara to have introduced this bitter and disaffected young woman and then warmed her up and made her the sort of person who enjoyed fun adventures where you run them monsters over and then she becomes a regular character. 473 00:33:28.559 --> 00:33:30.240 So I think that works really well. 474 00:33:30.299 --> 00:33:37.079 And I do think that when Jenny kind of does warm up to Barbara, she's a much more enjoyable character to watch, I think. 475 00:33:38.220 --> 00:33:41.640 So Ian Briggs is borrowing from this as well when he writes Dragonfire. 476 00:33:43.799 --> 00:33:47.700 Well, it's always the template for, you know, things going forward. 477 00:33:47.940 --> 00:34:01.920 I mean, generally we are in a world that is really, really horrifically bleak, and I think the death of Dortmund is rough and a little bit upsetting, I think, in the sense. 478 00:34:02.039 --> 00:34:08.280 Well, but he's also a liability because he uses a wheelchair and that is the sort of thing. 479 00:34:08.340 --> 00:34:18.719 We'll see it in, there's a survivors episode that is really brutally upsettingly bad on the topic of disability and you wonder whether that's creeping in here a little bit. 480 00:34:19.260 --> 00:34:23.340 There's Phil and Larry, which I just think is horrible. 481 00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:25.980 Like, that's just awful. 482 00:34:26.280 --> 00:34:30.960 Like being shot as you strangle your robot to death. 483 00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:32.039 That's right. 484 00:34:32.099 --> 00:34:34.500 I mean, that's just Christmas, you know what I mean? 485 00:34:34.980 --> 00:34:45.179 Even like, you know, no, we were talking about Jenny warming up, but she's warming up and she's becoming a less bitter, more open woman-y character. 486 00:34:45.239 --> 00:34:52.199 And then they are handed over to the Daleks by the old woman, Eileen Way. 487 00:34:52.559 --> 00:34:53.340 The Island Way? 488 00:34:53.400 --> 00:34:54.300 No, it's not Island. 489 00:34:54.360 --> 00:34:56.639 Eileen Way in the Fridge. should be, I mean. 490 00:34:56.880 --> 00:34:59.039 I mean, like, I mean, wait, in the film, at least. 491 00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:00.119 And her daughter. 492 00:35:00.420 --> 00:35:02.940 It's like, you know, like you can't have anything nice. 493 00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:04.260 Like, yeah. yeah? 494 00:35:04.860 --> 00:35:06.239 She can have secret army. 495 00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:07.800 Yeah. 496 00:35:07.860 --> 00:35:12.360 I mean, I think that that is a good scene and we spoke very positively about it. 497 00:35:12.539 --> 00:35:25.079 Last time we did this the 2nd time because there's a level of realism there, which is something that this setting allows for, because it is essentially, you know, Britain under Nazi occupation or whatever. 498 00:35:25.920 --> 00:35:35.099 And I think that's really good, but there's, again, this level of cynicism about human nature that Terry Nation has, that he creates worlds. 499 00:35:35.159 --> 00:35:43.800 Look at Blake 7, full of people who are kind of hardbitten and bitter and out for themselves, disco-ey. 500 00:35:44.039 --> 00:35:46.739 Yeah, yeah, yeah. camp as as hell, obviously. 501 00:35:47.159 --> 00:35:51.179 And I don't know that that's not really where we land. 502 00:35:51.239 --> 00:35:57.360 And even, yeah, again, I guess it's like Genesis of the Daleks, where just everyone is awful. 503 00:35:58.380 --> 00:36:01.440 I think though, in terms of the human characters. 504 00:36:02.340 --> 00:36:07.019 Most of them are working towards making things better for more than just themselves. 505 00:36:07.500 --> 00:36:10.139 And it's like even the old woman and her daughter. 506 00:36:10.619 --> 00:36:11.880 There's a sense of pity there. 507 00:36:12.360 --> 00:36:12.900 Oh, yeah. 508 00:36:13.260 --> 00:36:19.980 Where, whereas, you know, you get Ashton, who is very much just there to be a bastard who's then eaten by a blanc mange. 509 00:36:21.659 --> 00:36:23.460 Usually it happens the other way around. 510 00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:26.219 Yeah, not yet. 511 00:36:26.219 --> 00:36:28.679 With great horns. with great horns. 512 00:36:29.400 --> 00:36:33.960 But yeah, you know, Jenny has that kind of antagonistic streak. 513 00:36:34.019 --> 00:36:40.500 And then Barbara actually gets a bit shirty with her on a few occasions, but then sort of realises, well, hold on, that's not doing any good. 514 00:36:41.460 --> 00:36:54.659 Larry and his brother, was even more upsetting in the script because his brother recognising him as he died is not in the script that was suggested by the actor playing Phil. 515 00:36:55.199 --> 00:37:10.559 We should point out, I think it was Kingsley Amos, who mentioned this in, you know, one of the high literary critiques of TV and theatre at the time as being one of the most terrifying moments, history of British television up to that date, is the Roberman Kenton Moore, who we just lost. 516 00:37:10.619 --> 00:37:13.500 We should probably mention, you know, walking into the Thames. 517 00:37:14.039 --> 00:37:15.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 518 00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:17.820 Again, like a forgotten tea bag. 519 00:37:19.199 --> 00:37:20.699 Not an expression we can use anymore. 520 00:37:21.599 --> 00:37:23.039 That has been cited as. 521 00:37:23.280 --> 00:37:24.539 It's brutal, isn't it? 522 00:37:24.780 --> 00:37:25.679 And he's very good. 523 00:37:25.739 --> 00:37:26.460 It is very good. 524 00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:29.099 Is this what Terry does bring us back to our theme? 525 00:37:29.340 --> 00:37:35.940 Bricolaging, as we say on the podcast, all these different interesting threads, and then weaving something actually new. 526 00:37:36.780 --> 00:37:44.039 I mean, it's impossible to escape from thinking about Dave of the Truffords, if you're looking at post-apocalyptic Britain. 527 00:37:44.219 --> 00:37:54.840 And Day of the Triffords is, in many ways, the basis for this, and even more so, I think, for survivors, because what people forget is... 528 00:37:54.840 --> 00:37:56.699 So Carol Anne is in Day of the Trippers. 529 00:37:57.480 --> 00:38:02.699 I mean, what people forget is that what happens in Day of the Triffids isn't just that there are killer plants on the loose. 530 00:38:02.760 --> 00:38:06.300 It's that everyone's blinded and there's a plague. meteors. 531 00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:07.199 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 532 00:38:07.260 --> 00:38:20.940 And it does the thing that survivors does, which is takes us around Britain to see how different groups of people are surviving and how different ways of organising society fair in this situation. 533 00:38:21.539 --> 00:38:24.539 And it's very clear that that's what Wyndham's doing. 534 00:38:24.599 --> 00:38:28.619 But it is, I think that's why we have this sort of tour of Britain here. 535 00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:31.980 It is so that we see different places. 536 00:38:32.039 --> 00:38:38.400 Now we don't have time for it and we're busy having adventures and, you know, there's bombs and daleks and all sorts of things to worry about. 537 00:38:38.460 --> 00:38:41.820 He does have more time to explore this in more detail in survivors. 538 00:38:41.880 --> 00:38:54.300 But I think, you know, just as we identified the time machine, as an important source for the Daleks, very definitely, I think, he is riffing on Day of the Triffords here. 539 00:38:54.300 --> 00:38:57.960 Speaking of post-apocalyptic. 540 00:38:58.440 --> 00:39:03.599 Peter Diamond, who plays Kenton Moore, once he gets in the water, it is Kenton Moore before he goes in the water. 541 00:39:05.820 --> 00:39:24.480 But Peter Diamond and Robert Jewell, who is the dalek who comes out of the water at the end of episode one, were both given very strict instructions not to take on any river water, and a taxi was hired by production on location on standby to take them into the hospital to be stomach pumped if they feared that they had. 542 00:39:24.840 --> 00:39:25.679 Oh my god. 543 00:39:25.679 --> 00:39:28.800 Didn't Peter actually get ill from this? 544 00:39:29.280 --> 00:39:30.059 Quite possibly. 545 00:39:30.239 --> 00:39:31.199 I think he did, yes. 546 00:39:31.860 --> 00:39:33.719 We've seen the war between the land and the sea. 547 00:39:33.780 --> 00:39:34.679 That's after all. 548 00:39:35.699 --> 00:39:36.900 Not drinking that, look. 549 00:39:37.320 --> 00:39:38.519 More than my job's worth. 550 00:39:39.480 --> 00:39:46.019 They did imbibe the river water and that's how they eventually died. from Lyme's disease. 551 00:39:47.699 --> 00:39:50.940 Peter Diamond did make it to 2004, so I think... 552 00:39:50.940 --> 00:39:52.500 That's a very old slow acting. 553 00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:52.860 Yeah. 554 00:39:52.860 --> 00:40:01.260 And you can also see Peter Diamond in episode one where Ian launches himself out of the warehouse door. 555 00:40:01.320 --> 00:40:16.739 That's Peter Diamond and he gets a more substantial role in the Romans as Ian's Roman friend in the galley and he is then a Moroch guard who Ian subdues in the space museum. 556 00:40:16.860 --> 00:40:17.280 Right. 557 00:40:17.280 --> 00:40:17.699 Yeah. 558 00:40:17.760 --> 00:40:27.480 So Rob quite liked that Ian would beat up Peter Diamond. watch that It is an impressive moment, isn't it? 559 00:40:27.539 --> 00:40:34.619 And it is, you know, Terry has the sense of what works visually as well, I think, that is pretty great. 560 00:40:34.860 --> 00:40:48.719 Well, take a drink because initially when Barbara and Jenny are captured by the Daleks, they come to in a large white featureless room. which was one of Terry's favourite things to write when he didn't know what to describe it. 561 00:40:50.699 --> 00:40:56.219 That's an episode of absolutely fabulous. 2000 surfaces, yeah. you seen it? 562 00:40:56.280 --> 00:40:57.119 It's in white box. 563 00:40:58.079 --> 00:41:02.820 Because Raymond Cusick said, Terry, you know, you've written the Daleks are in a white, large white featureless room. 564 00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:03.239 Why is that? 565 00:41:03.300 --> 00:41:04.320 I couldn't think of what to write. 566 00:41:04.920 --> 00:41:05.880 Just do what you like. 567 00:41:07.679 --> 00:41:16.679 I think the closest we get in a Terry Nation script too, someone being in a large white featureless room, the teleportation room in the planet mirror or whatever. 568 00:41:16.679 --> 00:41:18.300 Yeah, heading to the planet mirror. 569 00:41:18.719 --> 00:41:21.059 Yeah, they couldn't cope. some lines on it. 570 00:41:32.880 --> 00:41:35.219 One of the other things that we talked about last time. 571 00:41:35.340 --> 00:41:59.880 And so we probably don't need to talk about it now, is that Terry Nation, in a way, creates the doctor, and we've already talked here about that hero moment where the Dalek looks at him, but we talked last time about how the doctor's role is split between Ian and Barbara, and certainly Ian, you know, panicking at that final cliffhanger to try and connect all of those wires in the little capsule is classic doctor behaviour. 572 00:42:00.119 --> 00:42:07.860 And so is Barbara issuing orders that can't be countermanded where she does that hilarious kind of mock-up of history. 573 00:42:08.340 --> 00:42:10.800 Do you remember those days when teachers had real power? 574 00:42:11.760 --> 00:42:13.920 I can't be counted. 575 00:42:14.340 --> 00:42:17.820 I just, I love how she, you know, gets her hand. 576 00:42:18.960 --> 00:42:19.800 With her hand. 577 00:42:20.280 --> 00:42:23.340 Which, like, she said, like, she's an extra on F-true. 578 00:42:23.940 --> 00:42:26.400 And then the doctor kind of slaps her head to wait. 579 00:42:26.639 --> 00:42:27.900 It's like don't be stupid. 580 00:42:28.019 --> 00:42:28.980 Stop looking a bat. 581 00:42:29.880 --> 00:42:33.900 Like, I was listening very closely this time and what he actually says is, let me, let me. 582 00:42:34.739 --> 00:42:35.159 Really? 583 00:42:35.159 --> 00:42:37.260 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 584 00:42:37.260 --> 00:42:45.719 But the funny thing is, like, Barbara to walking like this and hitting her mouth is basically what the ring modulator's doing anyway. switching off the voice. 585 00:42:45.960 --> 00:42:46.980 Oh, is that all a dog? 586 00:42:46.980 --> 00:42:48.059 In fractions of a second. 587 00:42:48.179 --> 00:42:49.980 It's not changing tone. 588 00:42:50.219 --> 00:42:52.619 No, which is why when you get to Day of the Daleks. 589 00:42:52.679 --> 00:42:57.539 The voices are so terrible because the actors didn't realise that they also had to perform it. 590 00:42:57.960 --> 00:43:02.400 And that's why when you see interviews with, unfortunately, the late great David Graham. 591 00:43:03.239 --> 00:43:07.079 He can basically do the voice because it's an acting performance. 592 00:43:08.039 --> 00:43:10.920 And he does in these early ones. did not realise. 593 00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:14.340 In terms of how Terry Nation creates a doctor. 594 00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:18.420 There's an interesting line that's cut out that would not be out of place in a Stephen Moffatt script. 595 00:43:18.480 --> 00:43:18.960 Oh, really? 596 00:43:18.960 --> 00:43:23.699 And it's the doctor, it's the doctor's initial response to Tyler calling him doc. 597 00:43:24.059 --> 00:43:31.019 Ah, thank you, but I prefer Dr. Doc reminds me of the time I met that Vulgarian Nefertiti. 598 00:43:32.820 --> 00:43:35.099 There is a line that she's still obsessed with me. 599 00:43:35.280 --> 00:43:36.599 I just listened to it the other day. 600 00:43:36.780 --> 00:43:39.119 It keeps going on and on and on through the series. 601 00:43:40.500 --> 00:43:42.900 What the hell was I listening to the other day anyway? 602 00:43:43.139 --> 00:43:44.880 So Moffat had seen that script. 603 00:43:45.179 --> 00:43:46.199 Yeah, very probably. 604 00:43:46.260 --> 00:43:48.659 But that's the thing, it's a very Moffat line. 605 00:43:48.719 --> 00:43:55.019 But then I thought, hold on, in the Sensorites, we've got the doctor showing off his new cape and say, Bo Brummel said I looked better at a cloak. 606 00:43:56.940 --> 00:43:58.739 Have you ever met Piro, dear boy? 607 00:43:58.800 --> 00:43:59.820 So it had already started? 608 00:44:00.119 --> 00:44:00.840 starting to happen. 609 00:44:01.800 --> 00:44:04.559 But yeah, we just blame Pertwee because... 610 00:44:04.559 --> 00:44:05.460 Yeah, yeah, we do. 611 00:44:05.519 --> 00:44:06.059 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 612 00:44:06.119 --> 00:44:09.000 But that line about the Bulgarian Nefertiti calling him Doc. 613 00:44:09.059 --> 00:44:12.539 That does have a slightly different colour to Beau Brummel's fashion advice. 614 00:44:13.320 --> 00:44:16.019 It does have a colour of, oh, Billy, you rogue. 615 00:44:17.579 --> 00:44:19.800 I'm going to add all my own teeth then. 616 00:44:20.519 --> 00:44:22.440 They shared some hot chocolate, did they? 617 00:44:22.739 --> 00:44:25.139 He is quite coquettish even in this one. 618 00:44:25.320 --> 00:44:26.880 There's lovely colour to this. 619 00:44:27.059 --> 00:44:33.119 Was it just this perfect synchronisation of script to actors to... 620 00:44:33.179 --> 00:44:34.679 I'm even going to include Richard Martin. 621 00:44:34.739 --> 00:44:40.380 We've talked about this before, and Brendan's directed theatre. you know, we've all had a go in theatre on some level or another. 622 00:44:40.440 --> 00:44:42.239 Maybe it's just the adrenaline makes it work. 623 00:44:42.960 --> 00:44:44.760 Oh, I think it carried along with it. 624 00:44:44.820 --> 00:44:46.320 But there is adrenaline in the script. 625 00:44:46.559 --> 00:44:46.920 Yeah. 626 00:44:46.980 --> 00:44:47.340 Oh, yeah. 627 00:44:47.400 --> 00:45:02.820 There's a real sort of sense of creating incident, and we didn't have it so much in the Daleks, and you have that very languorous, you know, back 3 episodes, which just seemed to be an exercise in delaying the final confrontation. 628 00:45:03.420 --> 00:45:04.500 And he doesn't make that mistake again. 629 00:45:04.980 --> 00:45:07.079 Daleks wasn't written to be 7 episodes. 630 00:45:07.139 --> 00:45:09.179 No, well, I mean, it's hard to tell. 631 00:45:09.420 --> 00:45:15.659 It doesn't work if it ends at episode 4 as it stands because we do need a final confrontation with the Daleks. 632 00:45:16.079 --> 00:45:18.900 But it does delay things quite a lot. 633 00:45:19.260 --> 00:45:23.219 To be fair, they didn't have the option of going back to the Dalek City for some more episodes. 634 00:45:23.460 --> 00:45:24.300 No, that's right. 635 00:45:24.360 --> 00:45:24.900 Not this time. 636 00:45:25.380 --> 00:45:29.760 And so we had he had to actually write some episodes, yes. 637 00:45:29.880 --> 00:45:40.139 And he does it by having consecutive subplots in the keys of Mariners, that he distributes the characters among, whereas here they're not consecutive. 638 00:45:40.199 --> 00:45:41.880 They're all happening at the same time. 639 00:45:41.940 --> 00:45:47.400 They're simultaneous subplots that all lead to the meeting again in Bedfordshire at the very end. 640 00:45:47.639 --> 00:45:49.920 And you know, it's something that he'll do again. 641 00:45:49.980 --> 00:45:53.519 It's Genesis of the Daleks, you know, it's death to the Daleks. 642 00:45:53.579 --> 00:45:55.559 It's essentially everything. 643 00:45:55.920 --> 00:45:58.380 He's the past master at splitting up the party. 644 00:45:58.440 --> 00:45:59.519 He invents that. 645 00:46:00.119 --> 00:46:03.840 But he does it so well here that even though there's individual plants. 646 00:46:03.900 --> 00:46:06.539 So silly we make fun of the slither because it's dreadful. 647 00:46:07.019 --> 00:46:11.280 Ian's plot kind of isn't super interesting, but it does have Ashton in it and stuff. 648 00:46:11.340 --> 00:46:14.460 It's like it's not defend the prop makers and the latex extenders. 649 00:46:14.519 --> 00:46:17.519 It does look good in that 2nd episode when it appears. 650 00:46:17.519 --> 00:46:19.500 And it is very crinoidal. 651 00:46:19.559 --> 00:46:20.820 It's simply the way it's shot. 652 00:46:21.179 --> 00:46:21.780 Yeah, yeah. 653 00:46:22.320 --> 00:46:23.820 Yeah, and performed, maybe. 654 00:46:23.880 --> 00:46:25.920 There's a lot of sort of bouncing up and down. 655 00:46:26.820 --> 00:46:28.679 Yeah, and the googly eyes on stalks. 656 00:46:29.099 --> 00:46:32.039 Which were apparently something that was added for the 2nd appearance. 657 00:46:32.099 --> 00:46:32.579 It wasn't. 658 00:46:33.719 --> 00:46:35.219 Funny you should mention 7 episodes. 659 00:46:35.880 --> 00:46:43.260 There was a suggestion of adding another episode to this because of Planet of Giants being cut from 4 episodes to three. 660 00:46:43.320 --> 00:46:47.820 However, it came through between episodes 4 and 5 of this big shot. 661 00:46:48.059 --> 00:46:54.059 And Berity Lambert pretty much wrote back a memo saying, no, we're not reworking these last 2 scripts. 662 00:46:54.539 --> 00:47:00.659 And also, the actors shot the amount of episodes they were contracted for. and they've done 2 re melts. 663 00:47:00.840 --> 00:47:02.219 So no, we're not doing that. 664 00:47:02.280 --> 00:47:06.119 And of course, we wouldn't then make up that episode until the end of the next production block. 665 00:47:06.659 --> 00:47:10.260 Yeah, I wouldn't have liked to see this extended further out. 666 00:47:10.320 --> 00:47:11.579 I think the length of it is quite good. 667 00:47:11.639 --> 00:47:14.639 Now, of course, Josh does an amazing job in his cutdown. 668 00:47:15.179 --> 00:47:18.719 There is certainly stuff you can cut out and it doesn't affect the story. 669 00:47:19.619 --> 00:47:23.579 But I think some long shots that are held too long besides. 670 00:47:23.639 --> 00:47:24.840 I think the pace is very good. 671 00:47:25.500 --> 00:47:30.420 Yeah, there's probably like one or 2 shots per episode where I'm like, okay, they're waiting for something to happen. 672 00:47:30.900 --> 00:47:36.179 When Ian's pulling out the wires and whatnot, the camera snaps down to the trap door and then the trap door opens. 673 00:47:36.300 --> 00:47:37.320 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 674 00:47:37.320 --> 00:47:40.860 So you're just looking at squatting William Russell. 675 00:47:41.639 --> 00:47:42.360 Beg your pardon? 676 00:47:42.420 --> 00:47:42.960 Not a bad thing. 677 00:47:43.019 --> 00:47:46.800 Yes, quite. an episode title. 678 00:47:55.980 --> 00:48:02.579 I am a little sort of lost and perplexed as to how much of this is Terry and how much of it's everybody else. 679 00:48:02.639 --> 00:48:15.840 And I guess like all of these things, it's everybody at the end of it and working with Terry's ideas and there must be something about the way he puts down those 2 sheets of foolscap that inspires everyone else to. 680 00:48:15.900 --> 00:48:16.739 Yes, I can spring from this. 681 00:48:16.800 --> 00:48:17.760 It's a week of rep. 682 00:48:17.820 --> 00:48:18.780 We've only got a week. 683 00:48:18.840 --> 00:48:20.940 Let's make it work, and then it's all extemporisation. 684 00:48:21.480 --> 00:48:38.460 I mean, I have no evidence for this and I haven't read anything, but certainly the chase is a much scantier script than this, and I think this script is, like, it shows every signs of at least being structured by nation. 685 00:48:38.519 --> 00:48:46.800 So it's not the sort of, you know, late series A of Blake 7, where it's all being written on the back of a napkin and stuff and given to Chris Boucher to flesh out. 686 00:48:47.039 --> 00:48:53.820 I don't think that is happening here, whereas you do get like Dennis Spooner having to do work on the chase. 687 00:48:53.880 --> 00:48:54.300 Is that right? 688 00:48:54.360 --> 00:48:54.780 Yeah. 689 00:48:54.780 --> 00:49:02.280 Yeah, Dennis Spooner and Richard Martin both said for the chase and then later Justin Spooner and Donald Tosh, both said for Dalek's master plan. 690 00:49:02.340 --> 00:49:03.599 They had to do a lot of fleshing out. 691 00:49:04.800 --> 00:49:18.420 Here, looking at the initial episode breakdown pitch, there's not a lot of difference between what Terry originally pitches and what he ends up presenting, the big one being the subterranean creatures are cut in favour of alligators. 692 00:49:18.900 --> 00:49:21.239 So, yeah, I think it was pretty well fleshed out by Terry. 693 00:49:21.360 --> 00:49:33.179 And while this was in development, Verity Lambert and David Whittaker suggested that Terry Nation should be considered a senior writer and write at least 3 stories for the upcoming production block. 694 00:49:33.960 --> 00:49:35.219 It's great ideas, man. 695 00:49:35.400 --> 00:49:35.760 Yeah. 696 00:49:36.360 --> 00:49:39.420 And pretty much what those 3 stories end up being are the chase. 697 00:49:39.420 --> 00:49:46.679 And eventually the Daleks master plan, which Verity chooses to hold over for the incoming producer to say, you've got 12 episodes ready to go. 698 00:49:47.099 --> 00:49:47.460 Yeah. 699 00:49:47.460 --> 00:49:51.719 Now the reality ends up being somewhat different and you'll be discussing that in a few weeks. 700 00:49:52.739 --> 00:49:54.900 You know, like, I think that this story is inevitable. 701 00:49:54.960 --> 00:50:14.579 I think we said this last time and probably the time before, that the Daleks in their sort of ethereal science fiction city, 1000000s of years into the future, is interesting and the Daleks are more interesting and all of that, and it's very traditional science fiction, but this is action adventure. 702 00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:18.300 So setting it on earth in a recognisable environment. 703 00:50:18.480 --> 00:50:24.480 Having the thrill of seeing the dialects going down the Thames Embankment or Trafalgar Square. 704 00:50:24.840 --> 00:50:26.460 It's Sunday afternoon war movie. 705 00:50:26.699 --> 00:50:27.840 Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. 706 00:50:28.320 --> 00:50:28.920 Yes, it is. 707 00:50:28.920 --> 00:50:32.760 So that is why I think, too, it works as a film later. 708 00:50:32.820 --> 00:50:34.980 The film doesn't cut a great deal. 709 00:50:35.039 --> 00:50:38.099 It has the same basic structure in all sorts of ways. 710 00:50:38.699 --> 00:50:40.679 Lots of the memorable things are still there. 711 00:50:40.739 --> 00:50:47.880 It's obviously tighter and has a higher budget and stuff, but it's largely what we see here. 712 00:50:48.719 --> 00:50:53.880 And even though it wasn't very successful, perhaps because it was a bit too grim. 713 00:50:55.260 --> 00:51:00.659 Oh, I think part of the reason the film wasn't successful is it came off the back of the Dialect's master plan. 714 00:51:01.320 --> 00:51:03.599 And people had just had 3 months of Daleks. 715 00:51:03.719 --> 00:51:04.559 Right, okay. 716 00:51:06.000 --> 00:51:07.559 Are we talking about the massacre again? 717 00:51:09.900 --> 00:51:14.760 There were people around at the time who kind of went, okay, the Daleks are a bit much now. 718 00:51:14.820 --> 00:51:20.519 You know, we've got the playsuit, we've got the books, we've got Daleks in cinema. 719 00:51:20.579 --> 00:51:23.579 We've just had 3 months of Daleks on TV. 720 00:51:23.639 --> 00:51:24.480 Is it just Daleks? 721 00:51:25.139 --> 00:51:26.039 Is that all we're doing? 722 00:51:26.219 --> 00:51:40.739 I mean, the theory is, too, that just that we were all a little bit too optimistic for another sort of post-apocalyptic. what if the Nazis had won the war, you know, we just won the World Cup and we were a bit excited about ourselves and it's the mid 60s. 723 00:51:40.800 --> 00:51:42.960 England starting to get a bit exciting again. 724 00:51:43.260 --> 00:52:00.659 And so it just doesn't match the kind of mood, whereas this, and I think, you know, the black and white and the production values and Billy Hartnell and stuff, just all of that tone, there's a kind of bleakness to this, which doesn't seem to be entirely intentional, but that helps, I think, the production land. 725 00:52:27.719 --> 00:52:29.579 Well, that's all the time we have for this week. 726 00:52:29.639 --> 00:52:36.539 We'll be back next week to find out what happens when you cross the Daleks with the keys of Marinas and get the chase. 727 00:52:37.199 --> 00:52:55.739 In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us on our website, 500yearDiary.com, where you'll find our social media links as well as links to all of our other podcasts, including the entirety of flights through entirety, which comprises every episode of our 4 Doctor Who podcasts. 728 00:52:56.820 --> 00:53:03.119 Until next time, we'll see you in 2027 for another trip to the Dalek Mines in Bedfordshire, probably. 729 00:53:04.260 --> 00:53:06.179 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 730 00:53:06.539 --> 00:53:07.079 Good night. 731 00:53:07.380 --> 00:53:08.159 Ta-ta. 732 00:53:08.219 --> 00:53:08.940 And good then. 733 00:53:21.059 --> 00:53:26.460 That was 500 year diary, starring Nathan Bottomley, Brendan Jones, James Selwood, and Richard Stone. 734 00:53:26.519 --> 00:53:28.679 The theme was composed by Cameron Lam. 735 00:53:28.980 --> 00:53:36.360 This episode, the power of a pair of clutched lapels, was recorded on the 7th of June 2026 and released on the 30th of August. 736 00:53:37.739 --> 00:53:45.960 As you heard several times this week, we talked about the Dalek invasion of Earth last year, in season 2 of 500 year diary, the 2nd coming. 737 00:53:46.320 --> 00:53:56.519 So if you need more Dalek invasion of Earth content, and you know you do, head over to our website, 500yeardiary.com slash S2 to continue the conversation. 738 00:53:57.059 --> 00:53:57.900 We'll see you there. 739 00:54:04.619 --> 00:54:06.960 I just realised I should have said, meh, meh. 740 00:54:07.320 --> 00:54:08.340 Ah, it's fine. 741 00:54:08.460 --> 00:54:09.599 I'll later that back in. 742 00:54:10.619 --> 00:54:11.820 You can have said that. 743 00:54:11.880 --> 00:54:13.980 You will, Oscar, you will. 744 00:54:15.059 --> 00:54:18.119 Um, yeah. 745 00:54:18.179 --> 00:54:19.320 Yeah, I think that's right. 746 00:54:20.099 --> 00:54:21.420 I've said everything that was in my notes. 747 00:54:21.599 --> 00:54:22.980 Yeah, I think we could. 748 00:54:23.280 --> 00:54:24.360 I think we are good. 749 00:54:26.340 --> 00:54:32.460 I'm not sure how much of the genius is Terry and how much is everyone else, but then that's the point. 750 00:54:32.519 --> 00:54:33.960 It's an ensemble piece. 751 00:54:34.440 --> 00:54:38.699 I think, I mean, one of the advantages of doing this, we watch all of them in a row. 752 00:54:38.760 --> 00:54:52.920 I, like I never discovered, because the thing, the thing that I discovered about Terrence Dix is that he gives the villains a series of things to do. 753 00:54:53.820 --> 00:55:02.460 So that the status quo, the threat that they pose is changing throughout the story, which gives the doctor something to react to. 754 00:55:02.699 --> 00:55:11.460 And so it's why you don't have the doctor sitting in a cage for episode 3 to prevent him from confronting the villain. 755 00:55:11.519 --> 00:55:15.179 The villain kind of isn't ready for that final confrontation yet. 756 00:55:15.239 --> 00:55:18.179 And you see it in, think about robot, right? 757 00:55:18.599 --> 00:55:29.880 Where it's collecting all of the things for the disintegrated gun, but it doesn't make the disintegrated gun until kind of episode 3 or whatever, and then the plans change and we're reacting to something different. 758 00:55:29.940 --> 00:55:30.719 It means a doctor. 759 00:55:31.139 --> 00:55:34.260 Then Leila says, I'm never coming back again, you soggy bastard. 760 00:55:35.639 --> 00:55:36.960 But do you know what I mean? 761 00:55:37.619 --> 00:55:39.900 so Terrence is very good at making things happen? 762 00:55:39.960 --> 00:55:46.440 Like, at not kind of spinning our wheels waiting to reach episode four? 763 00:55:46.800 --> 00:56:02.940 Whereas I think what what Terry seems to be doing is increasingly being able to just get lots of fun incident and lots of set pieces and and just action adventure stuff happening. 764 00:56:03.000 --> 00:56:05.820 He's the one who turns it into an action adventure program. 765 00:56:05.940 --> 00:56:11.820 You know, the previous science fiction, you know, the sensor rights is an action adventure in any sense of the word. 766 00:56:12.960 --> 00:56:15.059 Far from either word. 767 00:56:15.300 --> 00:56:15.900 That's right. 768 00:56:16.139 --> 00:56:16.739 That's right. 769 00:56:17.340 --> 00:56:18.659 There's a lot of standing around. 770 00:56:19.260 --> 00:56:24.000 If your kink is stretched jersey and latex skimp masks, it is, of course. 771 00:56:26.280 --> 00:56:26.699 Yeah. 772 00:56:27.119 --> 00:56:29.340 Yes, it has charms all its own, obviously. 773 00:56:32.280 --> 00:56:34.440 Q season 2 is based 1999. 774 00:56:34.440 --> 00:56:41.519 All right, it's the closing credits to season five, episode 3 of 500-year diary. 775 00:56:43.619 --> 00:56:49.079 That was 500-year diary starring Nathan Bottomley, Brendan Jones, James Selwood, and Richard Stone. 776 00:56:49.260 --> 00:56:51.539 The theme was composed by Cameron Lamb. 777 00:56:51.840 --> 00:56:54.539 This episode, splitting the party up for no reason. 778 00:56:54.599 --> 00:56:55.739 That's not what it's called. 779 00:57:09.780 --> 00:57:15.179 That was 500-year diary, starring Nathan Bottomley, Brendan Jones, James Selwood, and Richard Stone. 780 00:57:15.360 --> 00:57:17.639 The theme was composed by Cameron Lamb. 781 00:57:17.880 --> 00:57:25.559 This episode, the power of a pair of clutched lapels, was recorded on the 7th of June 2026 and released on the 30th of August. 782 00:57:26.699 --> 00:57:34.739 As you heard several times this week, we talked about the Dalek invasion of Earth last year, in season 2 of 500 year diary, the 2nd coming. 783 00:57:35.159 --> 00:57:45.840 So if you need more Dalek invasion of earth content and you know you do, head over to our website, 500yeardiary.com slash S2 to continue the conversation. 784 00:57:46.320 --> 00:57:47.280 We'll see you there. 785 00:57:51.179 --> 00:57:51.960 Go once more. 786 00:58:00.059 --> 00:58:05.460 That was 500 year diary starring Nathan Bottomley, Brandon Jones, James Selwood, and Richard Stone. 787 00:58:05.639 --> 00:58:07.980 The theme was composed by Cameron Lamb. 788 00:58:08.159 --> 00:58:15.539 This episode, the power of a pair of clutched lapels, was recorded on the 7th of June 2026 and released on the 30th of August. 789 00:58:16.800 --> 00:58:25.019 As you heard several times this week, we talked about the Dalek invasion of Earth last year, in season 2 of 500 year diary, the 2nd coming. 790 00:58:25.500 --> 00:58:35.699 So if you need more Dalek invasion of earth content, and you know you do, head over to our website, 500yeardiary.com slash S2 to continue the conversation. 791 00:58:36.239 --> 00:58:37.199 We'll see you there.