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This transcript was created on 2026-10-18 at 20:10:28

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to 500 year diary, the only Doctor Who podcast, which is actually a traditional African village of huts, typically enclosed by a fence.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm James And I'm Stephen.

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It's the 22nd of November, 1975.

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It's been over 10 years since we allowed Terry Nation to contribute a script to the show unaccompanied by the Daleks, and by now we've kind of forgotten how much fun that was.

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But how much fun will be had tonight by the astounding 11.90000 people who've tuned in.

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Let's find out as we visit the village of Devesham just in time for the Android invasion.

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I have to say that while this is charming, and I have very, very fond memories of it, I don't think it's actually very cool.

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There is kind of a thing this season.

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It's not every story, but a lot of the stories kind of fall apart a bit in the last episode, and I think that's the main problem here, because in the last episode, you have to pay off all these schemes that Stigrin has, and you have the eye patch moment, and you have the doctor disabling all the Androids, and then using his own Android, but then they run out of time to record the explanation.

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So Barry Letts just goes, eh.

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You know, but Brain of Morbius kind of runs out of steam in the last episode.

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Planet of Evil runs out of steam in the last episode, Pyramids of Mars.

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The sequences on Mars are quite divisive for a lot of fans.

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So I think kind of what we've got is Terry always writes a brilliant episode one.

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Always establishes a really great mystery.

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Episodes 2 and 3 were underrunning and the deal with Terry was they agreed to pay him slightly more as a senior writer payment, but it meant he wouldn't be paid for rewrites.

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Right.

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But he'd already told Philip and Robert, he said, I'm happy for you to rewrite the script and just send it to me for approval.

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So it was all understood that he would be offered the chance to write rewrites, but when they came back and said, look, 2 and 3 are underrunning.

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Terry said, well, look, I'm happy for Bob to handle that.

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Right.

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Okay.

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Because it just looks to me.

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And I think this is the impression that Sandover has as well, that you've got Lets and Nation, and they're just a reliable pair of people to just get the story made.

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And so they can concentrate on their stories, which they think are kind of more interesting, because it is unusual, I think.

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I mean, it is a visible throwback, isn't it, to the Lets era.

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And not just in the units, about the place kind of thing.

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Like stylistically, it's a very pert-esque story.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, I think, you know, you've got a radio telescope and a space base and things.

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Companions spreading their ankle.

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Yes.

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Sinister village.

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Yeah, sinister village.

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We'll get onto that.

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Rubber monsters.

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You know, it is very trad and it's very thin.

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There's nothing to it.

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And in a season.

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It's a little bit like the way that series 2 has both the idiots lantern and fear her. which are 2 stories that are really, really very similar to one another, one of which is substantially better than the other one.

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And that's, isn't it?

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And here you have Terror of the Zigons, which does heaps of this stuff only substantially better and manages to be about something and has an interesting and surprising climax in episode four.

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Like it doesn't fall off in episode four, I think.

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And lots of backstory and lots of atmosphere.

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And I think that this has sort of atmosphere, but it is very thin and it is hard to regard the kraals as anything, but Timu Zigons, really.

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I think there's something in that.

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It's silver nemesis to remembrance of the Daleks.

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Yeah, okay. years early.

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Where it's the same story, retold, just crapper, and...

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I mean, to the point of like going, Harry doesn't even get a farewell seen in this story.

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He literally is just there on the floor and then they're going back to the Tartars and nothing is there.

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And it's a story that has a doppelganger Harry as well in a way that's much, much more terrifying and effective.

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That scene with Harry in the barn and Sarah is one of the most memorable and terrifying scenes of the year, I think.

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And Terry, don't forget, had recently written Genesis of the Daleks.

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So he actually, in his original script, wrote a bigger role for Ian Marta.

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Oh, yeah.

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So the episode one cliffhanger was actually going to be Android Harry threatening Sarah.

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Right.

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Philip Hinch.

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They said, no, we want a foreground Elizabeth Sladen.

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She has to be intelligent and resourceful and get herself out of trouble.

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Ian is no longer a regular.

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So Elizabeth is the regular, must get the lion's share of the action.

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And so the park got watered down and watered down and water down to what we see.

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And also for John Levine, not that he had a bigger role in earlier stuff.

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But, you know, he gets a very desultory what they didn't expect to be a sendoff.

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And this is what Hingcliffe says on the commentary. he's like I wasn't expecting this to definitely be the last time we saw them.

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You know, we had Seeds of Doom coming up and Nick was invited back for that and John was invited back for that.

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Nick is touring in a play that's going to Toronto in a few weeks, which is why he's not here.

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And I don't know if John Levine said no to the Seeds of Doom or if it was even offered.

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You know, I could imagine them going, oh, well, if we don't have Nick, we don't have to have John. sort of thing.

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I wonder whether he said no because he didn't want to be fed into a mulcher.

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Well, that's a possibility as well, because that's what happens to Sergeant Henderson.

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Also, maybe he was too busy selling used cars by that point.

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That's true.

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That's true.

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It is kind of weird, isn't it, how little we do with the actual duplicates, and it is baffling that you get Ian Marty back and just don't let him be warm or funny or any of the things that we loved about him so much.

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It was such a crushing blow to leave him behind at the end of episode 4 of this season.

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Now we get him back, but we kind of robbed of any pleasure that that might have brought us.

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Yeah.

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And I feel like it's a bit of a writing problem that will rear its head again in the Davis and era, which, frankly, it's kind of reported as a problem that didn't need to be a problem in that.

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It's kind of like, oh no, we don't have room for Harry because Tom does his own stunts.

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It's like, well, write the stories better.

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Yeah, you know, it's kind of like you had room for unit while John Pertwee was running around punching people in the throat, you know.

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Yeah, you can make room for Harry.

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Now, the dynamic between Tom and Liz is brilliant and doesn't necessarily need anything else, but Harry did add something last season, and it is very sad that his last word on the show is twin while he's tied up.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, it is it is a shame.

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I mean, he worked so well in season 12 and he was very frequently a straight man for Tom, wasn't he?

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While Sarah led her own plot.

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She was shunted off to the side to be menaced by people while the doctor and Harry got on with the actual plot.

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And in fact, he actually often plays the role of the female companion in a lot of stories, getting his leg caught in a clam.

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Falling down a ravine.

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Yeah, yeah, making mistakes that further the plot was Harry's kind of role.

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I think Hinchcliffe has sort of noted that, though, that, you know, getting rid of Harry as a character when they did was probably a bit premature and they really were onto a good thing.

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Now, I'm not unhappy that we have Tom and Liz. as the main duo, I guess, going forward into season 13.

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I absolutely adore those two, in fact, and everything that we've said so far about the Android Invasion is actually true.

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But it's also one of my absolute favourites to put on on a Sunday afternoon and just watch on repeat, particularly those 1st, well, 1st episode in particular, but the 1st 2 episodes, they're so sunny and bright and they're lovely.

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Those 2 traipsing around the English countryside.

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I could watch that for 90 minutes, never mind, for 25.

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And like for me, that is one of the high points, I think, for the Hinchcliffe era for me, that chemistry between the 2 of them, particularly in that 1st part.

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And I think too, part of the thing about it being a kind of let's era throwback is that it's less grim than the stories around it, like less generally miserable.

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I mean, we noted when we were talking about season 12 how many times Liz has to clamber over dead bodies and then season 13 continues to be really quite dark all the way through.

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I guess the nearest equivalent to this is, of course, Terror of the Zycons, which is fun, but this is much lighter than that, isn't it?

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And kind of much more fun.

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But still with torturing of Sarah and also planning to give her a deadly virus.

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Yeah, yeah.

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This is the lightness of touch there. a relative scale.

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She falls down on a gentle incline twice.

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Less, a less gentle incline than the 5 doctors.

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Yes, so similar, though.

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Well, the whole thing with this is not only is Terry riffing on himself, he's riffing very deliberately on 50 sci-fi, the invasion is sort of a stand in for reds under the bed and sleeper trainee villages, invaders of the body snatchers, the invaders.

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Terry originally had this tell in the script that got reworked.

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So the bit with the doctor realising it's not Sarah because he's still got her scarf and she doesn't like ginger pop.

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It was originally that all of the androids were mirror imaged.

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Oh, okay.

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That would have been cool.

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And so it was things like he noticed that Harry had his medals on the wrong side.

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Yeah, he still had Sarah's coat from when they escaped and he gave her back her coat and he noticed she buttoned it up on the wrong side.

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But Hinchcliffe pointed out in the script conference.

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Well, any alien race, sufficiently advanced to create these androids, would just flip them back.

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Would know how mirrors were.

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So yeah, it became reworked instead.

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But they're not sufficiently advanced to program in alike or dislike of ginger pop.

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Well, I don't understand where the 2nd scarf comes from.

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She's not wearing it when she gets put in the machine.

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Yeah, yeah, she remembered.

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She remembers wearing it.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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It's her mental image of that outfit that gets replicated.

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Silence, Mr. Spock.

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I'm tired of your half blooded interference.

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Yeah, Sarah Jane.

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Mr. Spock, well, no, you're not the real Captain.

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Yeah, episode, yes.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Even that, you know, is commonly used in science fiction.

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It's the Android not knowing something that the human would know.

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This is actually the 1st Doctor Who story to feature the word Android, by the way.

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Ah, wow, okay.

145
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Because Edmund Warwick was the robot doctor who got the Android Doctor Who.

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And we haven't really had replica Androids, apart from that, I think.

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Yeah, maybe right.

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No, I mean, yeah, yeah, we've had doubles.

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We've had plastic people, but yeah, not robots.

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Robot replicas.

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I will say this, that it's not just the atmosphere.

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It's the location, which is really great.

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Again, just incredibly memorable, and also the cliffhangers, I think, are all absolute bangers, aren't they?

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Has this village been used in the Avengers?

156
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It really feels like we should have.

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Oh, we should know this, shouldn't we?

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We should. don't think it has.

159
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But it's so reminiscent of the town of No Return.

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It is so reminiscent of Murdersville.

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It's so reminiscent of James, you've mentioned Metroland before.

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It's kind of like the village at just one stop beyond the end of Metroland.

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So you're now at the sort of fringes of the urban rural English divide.

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And you're kind of in this sort of liminal space, really, and anything can happen here.

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And this is why I love the setting.

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Apart from Tom and Liz for me, Nathan is like the star of the show.

167
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I think it's the best thing other than Tom and Liz in the Android invasion.

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And part of that is, obviously, the location shooting, but you know, Brendan, you just mentioned it there as well, like all of the antecedents that it's drawing from, all of the things that are happening at that point in time, we've got this British space program, which never was, but kind of could have been.

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You know, they launched, um, I think it was Black Arrow in 1964 by 71, they'd cancelled the program.

170
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But this is kind of like a glimpse into an alternate Britain where if you squint just hard enough, Devisham is kind of deep space research centre in the auton invasion or what we see in Lagopolis, it's kind of like the same location in Britain does have this base program.

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I mean, there's a very definite space program in ambassadors of death, isn't there?

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Yeah, and again, it goes back to the sort of old way of doing Doctor Who underlets that we had and it's kind of brought back one last time. was expecting almost the 1st time watching this that the master was going to show up at some point.

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Yeah.

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And I do think that the mystery is very well done.

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Like, it is kind of very visual and interesting.

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And, you know, just like trucks coming along and just sort of disgorging a group of people who walk into the pub and so on.

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Very Avengers.

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Yeah, yeah, isn't it?

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And the guys with the fingers, again, are genius.

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Like, that's absolutely brilliant.

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Remember the slabs in Smith and Jones where they just look like bike couriers and stuff.

182
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So they don't scream.

183
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These are aliens, so they don't take us away from Earth.

184
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We still think that we're on earth.

185
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And the doctor thinks that we're on earth for quite a while.

186
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And it ties in with the high level of radiation thing as well. in suits.

187
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Yes.

188
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Yeah, yeah.

189
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Like, it kind of furthers the, are we near, like a Nanton power complex?

190
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

191
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Yeah.

192
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And just the finger thing is just like exactly we were doing it in the playground.

193
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Right, right, yeah.

194
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Yeah, you know.

195
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And it's also the autons all over again as well.

196
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Yeah, yeah.

197
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So it has the benefit of not having to split your hand open.

198
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And I do think there's some wonderful red herrings in this.

199
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And as much as, you know, we can look at a terry nation script and go, okay, we've got radiation tick.

200
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We've got an abandoned village tick.

201
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We've got a virus.

202
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In the 1st episode.

203
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The doctor comes up with several wrong guesses as to what's going on, but they are guesses that would be right in other Terry Nations scripts.

204
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Yeah.

205
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But I think Terry himself. because Philip asked for a story that didn't have Daleks.

206
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Terry's kind of going, oh, okay, how can I subvert my own kind of output?

207
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Because what's interesting with talking about the Avengers and the Town of No Return and what have you, is Terry later became the script editor of the Avengers for the final season, which also famously had a doppelganger episode called They Keep Killing Steed.

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It wasn't one of his because so he writes Invasion of the Earthmen.

209
00:15:57.539 --> 00:16:00.360
He gets the job as script editor on the strength of that.

210
00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:01.200
How?

211
00:16:03.779 --> 00:16:05.100
That's a really good question.

212
00:16:06.120 --> 00:16:09.419
In the same way that Eric Seward did after writing the invitation.

213
00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:12.179
He borrowed someone else's script from the Avengers, though, doesn't it?

214
00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:13.080
Yeah, yeah.

215
00:16:13.500 --> 00:16:16.320
Oh, how would this work if I turned the steed into the doctor?

216
00:16:16.559 --> 00:16:19.860
Yeah, Mrs. appeal into Sarah Jane.

217
00:16:20.100 --> 00:16:33.539
The town of No Return, which starts with a black sort of balloon walking out of the ocean and a man in a bowler hat with an umbrella steps out of it and wanders into the village. was written by Brian Clemens and he and Terry did collaborate on scripts later.

218
00:16:34.019 --> 00:16:41.159
The closest possible comparison to his Avengers scripts is probably noon, doomsday, which is a bit of a Western.

219
00:16:41.220 --> 00:16:46.379
You've got this isolated area where agents go to recuperate and someone's trying to kill Steed there.

220
00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:46.799
Right.

221
00:16:46.799 --> 00:16:50.639
And also Anthony Ainley's there too. feels like the prisoner.

222
00:16:50.759 --> 00:16:51.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

223
00:16:51.539 --> 00:16:53.340
And well, the prisoner was in vogue then as well.

224
00:16:53.940 --> 00:17:01.740
I think that Terry does work to subvert his usual tendencies here because there is radiation, but no one gets radiation sickness.

225
00:17:01.799 --> 00:17:02.279
Yeah, yeah.

226
00:17:02.279 --> 00:17:03.480
There isn't a Tarrant.

227
00:17:03.659 --> 00:17:04.740
There isn't a Tarrant.

228
00:17:05.819 --> 00:17:08.039
Let's say, Stigrunge, darky.

229
00:17:08.519 --> 00:17:11.160
Oh, of course, because of his son, Chadanki Nation.

230
00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:33.720
I can't help feeling that the initial guy who goes over the cliff is our Roberman from episode one of Dalek Invasion of Earth and our Terry Walsh from episode one of Death to the Daleks, don't you think?

231
00:17:34.200 --> 00:17:35.400
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

232
00:17:35.819 --> 00:17:37.019
That's Max Faulkner.

233
00:17:37.619 --> 00:17:40.019
In his larger speaking role on the show to date.

234
00:17:40.559 --> 00:17:41.279
Yes, okay.

235
00:17:41.460 --> 00:17:48.299
And Barry Let's chose him specifically because he didn't want the audience to go, oh, okay, now they've changed the stuntman.

236
00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:54.599
Yeah, okay So he's like, get Max in, who doesn't usually get close-ups of his face or whatever.

237
00:17:54.720 --> 00:17:57.599
So people won't know, okay, there's a stunt coming up.

238
00:17:58.079 --> 00:17:58.680
Yeah.

239
00:17:58.799 --> 00:18:00.779
But then have him play the role throughout as well.

240
00:18:01.680 --> 00:18:07.740
That cliff is obviously all completely created in kind of editing and camera angles and stuff like that.

241
00:18:08.220 --> 00:18:11.099
But the shot where he kind of flings himself.

242
00:18:11.099 --> 00:18:12.900
It's a great jump really good.

243
00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:14.759
And very terrible the autons as well.

244
00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:20.640
It's also the 2nd story where Max Faulkner comes back to life after the ambassadors of death.

245
00:18:20.759 --> 00:18:21.180
Yes.

246
00:18:22.619 --> 00:18:24.119
He does too, doesn't he?

247
00:18:25.559 --> 00:18:27.180
But yeah, it's a great shot, isn't it?

248
00:18:27.240 --> 00:18:36.059
And but again, the 1st thing that we entered my head when I saw that was, oh, they're recreating that wonderful, you know, auton being flung into the chasm and then relaxing coming back up.

249
00:18:36.180 --> 00:18:37.799
Yeah, yeah, except it doesn't hear.

250
00:18:37.859 --> 00:18:40.319
But that's part of the mystery, isn't it?

251
00:18:40.380 --> 00:18:44.099
That's seeded, like, how is it that we see him march back into the pub later on?

252
00:18:44.700 --> 00:18:50.400
Those kinds of cues around the uncanny valley, I guess, aspect that this really carries on.

253
00:18:50.460 --> 00:18:53.700
And it's 1970, I think, where what's the chap's name?

254
00:18:53.940 --> 00:19:01.920
Masahiro Maury coins this idea of the uncanny valley, where the copy disturbs most at near perfection, not at a crude approximation.

255
00:19:01.980 --> 00:19:05.099
So the closer you get, obviously, that's where the uncanny valley effect happens.

256
00:19:05.460 --> 00:19:11.519
But, you know, the fact that they all sort of file into the pub and then they're absolutely still into the stroke of midday.

257
00:19:11.819 --> 00:19:18.119
And then they come back to life and it's the normal scene and you feel safe at that point, but obviously you're not because there's something really strange going on.

258
00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:24.900
There's such great totanic dread, I guess, in the way that all of that is set up by nation.

259
00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:26.339
And this is what he does really, really well.

260
00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:34.259
I don't think it's a great script, but I think it's a great series of moments in Doctor Who, and all of them are just sort of rely on that.

261
00:19:34.319 --> 00:19:37.859
The visual language, I guess, um, that Doctor Who does particularly well.

262
00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:46.740
And, you know, look, at the same time the Avengers were doing the same thing. mentioned the prisoner, like this is another isolated village where things are happening that are unaccountable for.

263
00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:56.819
I just think that the whole thing, I know it's redbare, but it's just so redolent of all of those influences that I love and I can just watch it over and over again as a result.

264
00:19:56.880 --> 00:19:58.799
It's kind of a collection of delightful set pieces.

265
00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:00.059
Yeah, yeah, totally.

266
00:20:00.539 --> 00:20:03.119
Or, I mean, that's something that he is very good at, I think.

267
00:20:03.180 --> 00:20:07.920
And things like the Cliffhanger to episode too, which I think is probably one of the best...

268
00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:08.519
Unbelievable.

269
00:20:08.519 --> 00:20:10.799
Stepford Wives, I like to call it.

270
00:20:10.859 --> 00:20:14.700
But, you know, the face falling off is an all-time great image of Doctor Who.

271
00:20:14.759 --> 00:20:16.140
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

272
00:20:16.500 --> 00:20:20.759
Well, the Stepford-wise was released in the UK, when Terry was writing the scripts.

273
00:20:21.900 --> 00:20:22.500
There you go.

274
00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:22.980
Yeah.

275
00:20:22.980 --> 00:20:25.259
And also 2 years after Westworld.

276
00:20:25.319 --> 00:20:26.099
Of course, yeah.

277
00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:26.700
Yeah, yeah.

278
00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:29.700
As much as we're talking about 50s references.

279
00:20:29.819 --> 00:20:31.680
His other references are right up to the minute.

280
00:20:32.460 --> 00:20:38.460
And it's interesting in the middle of a season where Hinchcliffe and homes are looking back at literature.

281
00:20:38.519 --> 00:20:43.859
So, you know, we're doing Frankenstein, we're doing mummy legends, we're doing loch bins.

282
00:20:44.339 --> 00:20:45.480
We're doing Forbidden Planet.

283
00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:55.920
Terry looks at film and TV sci-fi from the last 10 or 15 years. rather than going back to the 1st half of the century or even further back than that.

284
00:20:57.059 --> 00:21:04.319
And it's kind of interesting because just a few years from now, Graham Williams will be looking even further back into literature and not looking at the visual medium.

285
00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:08.819
Terry is a very visual writer, in terms of action, in terms of set piece.

286
00:21:09.480 --> 00:21:14.519
But he then famously will write things like a blank featureless corridor, a blank featureless room.

287
00:21:16.200 --> 00:21:19.559
Because he's just he's just like, I'm not interested in telling the designer how to design the room.

288
00:21:20.099 --> 00:21:22.559
I'm interested in saying they go over here, they do this.

289
00:21:22.619 --> 00:21:23.460
They pick this up.

290
00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:29.039
It's crystalline technology, but also things like the doctor being tied to the obelisk.

291
00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:34.980
In the script, Terry's like, it's an ornamental bird bath or sundial or whatever you find on location.

292
00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:43.440
Yeah, yeah. and writes in things like, depending on, depending on the size, perhaps Sarah grabs a shovel to leave her off the top so the doctor can stand up.

293
00:21:43.619 --> 00:21:47.940
If it is too tall, perhaps she gets a ladder for him to walk up and get off the thing.

294
00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:51.059
But it was actually Barry Letz, who said, well, why don't we just use this thing?

295
00:21:51.059 --> 00:21:57.240
And we'll write in the Sonic Screwdriver and just put a blowtorch on some plastic ivy, which is how they did that effect.

296
00:21:57.720 --> 00:22:00.299
I think that's incredible, actually, that whole sequence.

297
00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:02.579
And obviously it's the memorable thing.

298
00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:05.819
It's what they put on the front cover of the novelisation, isn't it?

299
00:22:06.119 --> 00:22:08.759
Like it is a really, really striking image.

300
00:22:08.819 --> 00:22:17.099
And I'd kind of forgotten that it wasn't a cliffhanger because I'm there hearing Sarah say 9 minutes and I think, wait, it's 25 minutes to the end.

301
00:22:17.640 --> 00:22:18.660
Wait, what's happening?

302
00:22:18.779 --> 00:22:30.059
But because it is so incredibly memorable and it has one of the best countdowns ever, doesn't it, with the doctor standing back to allow Sarah into the door in front of him while we're on like one.

303
00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:32.579
Ever the gentleman?

304
00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:34.140
Yeah, yeah.

305
00:22:34.140 --> 00:22:48.779
But they're just that wonderful moment with the cliffhanger where they get through the door, but don't have enough time to press the button before the match dispersion bomb goes off and that throwing themselves around in slow motion.

306
00:22:48.839 --> 00:22:49.440
Just fantastic.

307
00:22:49.980 --> 00:22:52.500
And the funny thing is, that's not the cliffhanger.

308
00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:54.180
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

309
00:22:54.180 --> 00:22:56.579
Because I always remember that as the cliffhanger as well.

310
00:22:56.700 --> 00:23:00.839
The cliffhanger is Elizabeth Sladen, of course, grabbing her ears and pulling back on her own face.

311
00:23:03.059 --> 00:23:04.200
Because they're underrunning.

312
00:23:04.980 --> 00:23:07.680
It is the weakest of the cliffhapers, I have to say.

313
00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:09.839
What's the 1st cliffhanger, I can't.

314
00:23:09.900 --> 00:23:12.059
The 1st cliffhanger is...

315
00:23:12.119 --> 00:23:17.460
Yeah, and it's basically a retread of the episode one cliffhanger of Terror of the Cycons.

316
00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:18.299
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

317
00:23:18.299 --> 00:23:19.559
Boton looms into screen.

318
00:23:19.799 --> 00:23:22.259
Well, in fact, it's so similar, isn't it?

319
00:23:22.619 --> 00:23:34.559
part of it is just the sort of sensibilities because I'm also getting kind of vogan vibes from the outfits that the kraals are wearing and it's the same kind of rubberheaded people.

320
00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:39.660
You know, like this is what rubberheaded people look like. been the Santarans, to be honest.

321
00:23:39.900 --> 00:23:40.500
Yeah, yeah.

322
00:23:40.859 --> 00:23:41.819
Oh, that's a nice thought.

323
00:23:42.059 --> 00:23:43.140
Yeah, they're doing it again.

324
00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:46.680
Planning another invasion Over elaborating.

325
00:23:46.920 --> 00:23:50.460
Yeah, if at 1st you don't succeed, try, try again 10,000 years earlier.

326
00:23:51.539 --> 00:23:52.980
There are a lot of similarities.

327
00:23:53.400 --> 00:23:58.380
I mean, even the, is the dartboard, the dartboard doesn't have a camera in it, that is...

328
00:23:58.380 --> 00:24:00.420
No, the dartboard does have a camera in this one.

329
00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:01.319
Oh, it is.

330
00:24:01.319 --> 00:24:03.059
The zigons is in the stag's hand.

331
00:24:03.059 --> 00:24:04.019
It's above the dot.

332
00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:04.500
Of course.

333
00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:04.980
Yeah, yeah.

334
00:24:05.039 --> 00:24:05.880
It's moving down.

335
00:24:06.660 --> 00:24:08.700
Just like, you know, the plot antecedents.

336
00:24:08.759 --> 00:24:09.000
Yeah.

337
00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:27.660
And I feel like also like the whole use of androids may be the reason that in Brain of Morbius, they go off Solon being a robot putting together a hodgepodge body. yeah Because, I mean, like we literally have just the pub is bugged by the alien who can see it on a screen.

338
00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:34.619
We've got fiddling with the power system in the ship in order to attack someone or escape or whatever.

339
00:24:35.220 --> 00:24:36.119
Not just sexy.

340
00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:37.559
No, that's right.

341
00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:38.339
God.

342
00:24:39.839 --> 00:24:49.019
I do love that 1st episode, Cliffhanger, because it's like, why does Stigrid have a removable intercom just there when he has cameras elsewhere?

343
00:24:49.980 --> 00:24:51.720
He really likes that corridor.

344
00:24:52.500 --> 00:24:54.420
Well, it's one of those cliff addingers.

345
00:24:54.480 --> 00:25:03.779
It's like that cliffhanger in nightmare of Eden where you open up the wall and there's a mandrel and so then you close up the wall at the beginning of the next episode.

346
00:25:04.259 --> 00:25:11.099
And here, like it is absolutely he opens that little door because we're 25 minutes in.

347
00:25:11.160 --> 00:25:13.079
Yeah. monster.

348
00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:15.839
Yeah, it was so memorable at the time.

349
00:25:16.259 --> 00:25:17.759
It's his cliffhanger pit hole.

350
00:25:19.019 --> 00:25:24.119
I just love the fact that there's one eye sort of balefully glaring at you. you know, they're sort of squinty.

351
00:25:24.180 --> 00:25:25.200
It just looks so inhuman.

352
00:25:25.859 --> 00:25:26.579
It's wonderful.

353
00:25:26.940 --> 00:25:27.599
And you know what?

354
00:25:27.660 --> 00:25:31.259
A lot of people have said they don't like this design for many years.

355
00:25:31.500 --> 00:25:32.700
I actually like it.

356
00:25:32.700 --> 00:25:34.740
Like, he looks scarred.

357
00:25:34.740 --> 00:25:38.700
And, yeah, they're on this irradiated planet.

358
00:25:39.119 --> 00:25:42.900
They look kind of melted but they also look kind of like rhinoceroses.

359
00:25:43.200 --> 00:25:43.859
Yeah.

360
00:25:43.859 --> 00:25:49.079
And Martin Friends has something interesting on the commentary, which is pretty much the chin was spring loaded.

361
00:25:49.319 --> 00:25:55.500
So it wouldn't flap about, but it meant that he had to over annunciate everything to make it move.

362
00:25:56.460 --> 00:25:58.259
And so he's like, it was a painful experience.

363
00:25:58.319 --> 00:26:02.460
But he's like, I'm looking at it now and I can't see the struggle, which is good.

364
00:26:02.759 --> 00:26:04.380
It looks like I'm moving naturally.

365
00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:06.900
I think it looks really good.

366
00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:11.339
And I did notice at the time because it's the thing that they know or knew who.

367
00:26:11.400 --> 00:26:19.680
It's the reason that he would have those tentacles, is that getting the mouth movement right on a mask like that is terribly difficult.

368
00:26:20.099 --> 00:26:24.839
And obviously they're mastering it at this point in the program where they make up the actors.

369
00:26:24.960 --> 00:26:28.380
I guess they do it for the 1st time with the draconians, don't they?

370
00:26:28.500 --> 00:26:33.660
But it becomes the standard thing that they do with Davros and with the Zygons.

371
00:26:33.720 --> 00:26:39.119
But here I think it does work really well that we can't really see the actor's lips and it doesn't matter. looks really good.

372
00:26:39.660 --> 00:26:42.900
Everything they totally fail to do with Legend of the Sea Tables.

373
00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:43.859
Yeah, yeah.

374
00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:46.500
Oh, no, they don't move their mouths quick, quick.

375
00:26:46.559 --> 00:26:52.079
Let's use some post-production to try and warp their mouths to make it look like they're talking. like, guys, come on.

376
00:26:52.619 --> 00:26:55.079
Well, I mean, next week we're doing Destiny of the Daleks.

377
00:26:55.140 --> 00:27:00.119
And again, that's kind of failure of the mask and the actor's lips and things.

378
00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:01.559
Like, it just doesn't kind of work.

379
00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:03.779
But I think they do look really good.

380
00:27:03.900 --> 00:27:07.680
I think they work well here, but they are just this week's rubber monsters.

381
00:27:08.160 --> 00:27:16.380
They are, but they are absolutely, you know, discard genetic relics of whatever the kraal race was prior to, you know, whatever happened to a site.

382
00:27:16.440 --> 00:27:18.539
And like they look like they've gone through an Armageddon.

383
00:27:18.599 --> 00:27:22.079
I think, again, this is like Terry's home turf, really.

384
00:27:22.140 --> 00:27:28.740
The 15, 20 years after the 2nd World War, the preoccupation with nuclear Armageddon and what would happen to the planet.

385
00:27:28.799 --> 00:27:31.559
You know, he writes survivors is it just before this?

386
00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:36.299
The 1st season finishes just as this is about to shoot or is about to air, I think it is.

387
00:27:36.539 --> 00:27:37.140
Is that right?

388
00:27:37.500 --> 00:27:39.599
I think it's definitely in production around the same time, yeah?

389
00:27:39.839 --> 00:27:40.680
Yeah, yeah.

390
00:27:40.740 --> 00:27:41.099
Yeah.

391
00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:47.220
When he was writing this, he had pretty much stepped away from writing survivors due to his disagreements with Terence Dudley.

392
00:27:47.400 --> 00:27:51.240
So yeah, the 1st season, I think, goes out early to mid-1975.

393
00:27:51.720 --> 00:27:52.740
And this goes out in November.

394
00:27:52.980 --> 00:27:53.339
Yeah.

395
00:27:53.400 --> 00:27:55.799
So they're actually shooting in June, July, I think it is.

396
00:27:55.859 --> 00:27:56.579
Yes, that's right.

397
00:27:56.640 --> 00:27:56.880
Yeah.

398
00:27:56.940 --> 00:27:57.299
Okay.

399
00:27:57.359 --> 00:27:59.400
So he's just rolled off writing for it.

400
00:27:59.759 --> 00:28:02.460
But I mean, it is something that he's obsessed with general.

401
00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:05.880
Obviously, there must have been formative experiences for him as well, right?

402
00:28:05.940 --> 00:28:12.720
And as a writer, those, I guess, you know, mythologies that you sort of grow up with are your preoccupations in your writing as well.

403
00:28:13.259 --> 00:28:16.019
But, you know, also at that time, to go back to villages.

404
00:28:16.200 --> 00:28:17.460
Well, there's a few stories.

405
00:28:17.519 --> 00:28:27.420
So there's Ibra in Wiltshire and Tynham in Dorset, and these are villages that are evacuated of people and are sort of set up for for military war games and you know how to prepare in the case of a Nazi invasion.

406
00:28:27.480 --> 00:28:28.259
In 53.

407
00:28:28.559 --> 00:28:37.559
The survival town, the Nevada test site, which the press dub Doomtown, which is basically a perfectly replicated town or village, if you like, in Nevada.

408
00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:41.640
And it's obviously designed to see what would happen if we detonate a nuclear bomb.

409
00:28:41.700 --> 00:28:47.759
And there's mannequins, you know, sitting down at the tables having dinner, you know, sort of to sort of replicate what life would look like after the blast.

410
00:28:47.759 --> 00:29:09.299
But also most famously, the story of Inver Lair Lodge in Scotland, which is George Markstin, the chap who sort of 1st wrote the premise for the prisoner with Patrick McGuin, this idea that during the 2nd World War, It was a secretive, comfortable holding facility in Scotland for individuals who possessed sensitive information or classified knowledge.

411
00:29:10.140 --> 00:29:18.059
So all of these things are sort of, I think, in the ether and nation imbibes from it and it just sort of comes out in these sort of tropes that we're very familiar with.

412
00:29:18.539 --> 00:29:24.720
But he's such a product of that sort of 1945 to 19, perhaps, 60, 65, and he's stuck there.

413
00:29:24.779 --> 00:29:40.200
And that's why as we sort of move further away from that period and we get past, I think, certainly the chase or at the chase, it kind of becomes less compelling as a Doctor Who ride it because he's no longer cresting the wave of what, you know, Doctor Who is is very much a relic of the past.

414
00:29:40.740 --> 00:29:41.160
Yeah.

415
00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:45.480
Yeah, I think he's successful in the 1970s Dalek stories.

416
00:29:46.140 --> 00:29:49.740
Just because it's the sort of thing that we haven't seen for a while.

417
00:29:49.799 --> 00:29:54.119
Like it's bringing the Daleks back and in colour and for a generation who haven't seen them.

418
00:29:54.480 --> 00:29:55.140
Exactly right.

419
00:29:55.319 --> 00:30:01.019
And so he has 2 quite successful stories, one perhaps more successful than the other one.

420
00:30:01.200 --> 00:30:05.640
And then, of course, we hit on the genius idea that brings us genesis of a dialect.

421
00:30:05.759 --> 00:30:06.660
Which wasn't even his idea.

422
00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:07.980
No, that's right.

423
00:30:08.039 --> 00:30:08.640
That's right.

424
00:30:08.700 --> 00:30:10.380
But he certainly rises to it, though.

425
00:30:10.980 --> 00:30:16.380
Like, we did talk quite a bit last week about how sympathetic.

426
00:30:16.440 --> 00:30:20.579
Bob Holmes and Terry Nation were in their kind of interests and outlooks.

427
00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:24.359
And so the 2 of them kind of work together a bit.

428
00:30:24.420 --> 00:30:30.119
Terry gets to be a bit off the leash as far as, you know, making it very dark goes here.

429
00:30:30.660 --> 00:30:37.559
He's very, very much back in that sort of Let's era, planet of a Daleks, death to the Dalek sort of thing.

430
00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:49.680
I'd like to talk about the title.

431
00:30:50.039 --> 00:30:50.460
Yes.

432
00:30:50.640 --> 00:30:51.299
That's all right.

433
00:30:51.359 --> 00:30:58.440
So, um, one of the early working titles for it was just the kraals, which was never going to be the title, but it was just, I'm writing a story about kraals.

434
00:30:58.740 --> 00:30:59.579
What a Carls.

435
00:31:00.900 --> 00:31:03.539
And of course, in Africa, surrounded by gates.

436
00:31:03.839 --> 00:31:04.559
What was that?

437
00:31:04.559 --> 00:31:06.119
Fence. you go.

438
00:31:06.599 --> 00:31:09.779
And I believe is also where the word corral comes from.

439
00:31:10.920 --> 00:31:13.079
But it does go through different titles.

440
00:31:13.380 --> 00:31:19.559
One of which is still on the paperwork for the location shoot, which is take a drink, the enemy within.

441
00:31:21.960 --> 00:31:31.619
However, I think what Terry and the production team decide, perhaps not in these words, but as Stephen Moffatt wants to describe the way he titles season finales, you need a slutty title.

442
00:31:34.140 --> 00:31:35.759
And the Android Invasion.

443
00:31:35.940 --> 00:31:37.619
He's a slutty title.

444
00:31:37.740 --> 00:31:38.400
Very, very.

445
00:31:38.400 --> 00:31:45.000
Yeah, you know, especially with the Stepford Wives, with Westworld, with other robot duplicates in other places.

446
00:31:45.059 --> 00:31:47.220
The $6000000 man was super popular at this time.

447
00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:53.640
You get the Android invasion, which rather than subverts all the red herrings in episode one.

448
00:31:53.700 --> 00:31:55.200
It's like, oh, maybe it's radiation.

449
00:31:55.440 --> 00:31:56.339
Maybe it's this.

450
00:31:56.400 --> 00:31:59.400
Maybe it's, or maybe it's the Android.

451
00:32:01.920 --> 00:32:03.960
But that's so Terry Nation.

452
00:32:04.019 --> 00:32:05.220
It's Planet of the Daleks.

453
00:32:05.279 --> 00:32:06.660
Oh my god, there's a dalek.

454
00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:08.339
Death of the Daleks.

455
00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:09.720
There's Daleks on that ship.

456
00:32:09.900 --> 00:32:10.680
Oh my god.

457
00:32:11.039 --> 00:32:13.740
Okay, but how many of us, the 1st time we saw this?

458
00:32:13.859 --> 00:32:17.339
Thought that the Androids were the guys in the motorbike helmets.

459
00:32:17.579 --> 00:32:18.119
That's true.

460
00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:19.559
That's great, misdirection.

461
00:32:19.619 --> 00:32:20.039
Absolutely.

462
00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:21.779
And they are Androids though.

463
00:32:21.839 --> 00:32:23.940
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we see their face.

464
00:32:24.539 --> 00:32:29.519
Yeah, but the big reveal, of course, which he doesn't spoil, at least that we're not on earth at all.

465
00:32:29.700 --> 00:32:36.480
That's true And that is actually pretty good, even though Karl does just seem to be a photograph of a beach.

466
00:32:38.279 --> 00:32:39.240
Isn't it Cromer?

467
00:32:40.980 --> 00:32:42.599
A photograph of Chroma.

468
00:32:43.920 --> 00:32:54.539
Stephen and I watched behind the sofa for this in the last few days. and it's actually really interesting to watch. most of the sofas are made up by people who've never seen the story before.

469
00:32:55.259 --> 00:32:56.039
Apart from St.

470
00:32:56.039 --> 00:32:57.000
Toby Haydoke.

471
00:32:58.079 --> 00:33:02.099
And seeing them try and work out the plot. is great.

472
00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:11.940
It's like, they go, oh, they're androids, but I think it's Maureen O'Brien or Sophie Aldred, sitting there going, oh, no, I don't think they're, they're on.

473
00:33:12.420 --> 00:33:15.720
And one of them says, oh, those humans, they've been brainwashed.

474
00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:16.259
Yes.

475
00:33:16.319 --> 00:33:16.619
Yes.

476
00:33:16.619 --> 00:33:17.579
Yes.

477
00:33:17.640 --> 00:33:17.880
Yes.

478
00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:19.799
Yeah, the faint works.

479
00:33:20.039 --> 00:33:20.460
Yeah.

480
00:33:20.579 --> 00:33:21.960
For someone who's never seen it before.

481
00:33:22.500 --> 00:33:23.099
Yeah, fair.

482
00:33:23.160 --> 00:33:25.559
It doesn't work for us because we've seen it a 100 bloody times.

483
00:33:25.740 --> 00:33:26.819
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

484
00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:28.140
And read the novelisation.

485
00:33:28.740 --> 00:33:33.000
So it's a great, because it's like Maureen O'Brien who's famously not a science fiction fan.

486
00:33:33.420 --> 00:33:35.279
And she's like, I don't get it.

487
00:33:35.339 --> 00:33:35.880
I don't get it.

488
00:33:35.940 --> 00:33:41.460
And then she sees that scene, they come to life in the pub and she's like, oh, wow, that's a great effect.

489
00:33:42.119 --> 00:33:46.500
You're kind of seeing her through going, oh, there's something in this science fiction is kind of cool.

490
00:33:47.279 --> 00:33:54.299
What's interesting about that scene as well from a production standpoint is usually when you hire extras for location, you don't have to worry about getting the same extras for studio.

491
00:33:54.539 --> 00:33:55.259
Yeah, okay.

492
00:33:55.619 --> 00:33:57.539
But here, of course, they do.

493
00:33:57.599 --> 00:34:07.380
So what Barry Letts does is all the principal extras who we see close-ups of are people who've been extras in previous stories, particularly Planet of the Spiders.

494
00:34:07.619 --> 00:34:07.980
Right.

495
00:34:07.980 --> 00:34:10.860
So most of them were metabolian villages.

496
00:34:11.460 --> 00:34:12.119
Brilliant.

497
00:34:12.539 --> 00:34:26.340
But the guy with the impressive gray moustache, who is just staring into the camera in surprise, did that just about 6 months ago as the honourable MP Joseph Chambers, guardian of the plans for the disintegrator.

498
00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:27.059
Yes, of course.

499
00:34:27.059 --> 00:34:29.340
Where he makes exactly the same face.

500
00:34:30.719 --> 00:34:33.900
So it's kind of a deliberate thing to go, oh, have I seen them before?

501
00:34:34.559 --> 00:34:36.900
Yeah, yeah, it might be uncanny for viewers.

502
00:34:36.960 --> 00:34:47.579
Yeah, especially one of the most recognisable ones is the guy in the sort of blue cap. was a very prominent villager or metabolist, like not speaking, but was in a lot of the action scenes and what have you.

503
00:34:47.699 --> 00:34:50.039
To the point that whenever I watch the story, I'm like, who's that guy?

504
00:34:50.099 --> 00:34:51.599
I have to go look it up, oh, yeah, that's right.

505
00:34:52.079 --> 00:34:53.460
He was in Plan of the Spiders.

506
00:34:53.760 --> 00:35:00.420
And I think the one who grabs Sarah is like an audience member watching the Turkish belly dancer in at the beginning of one.

507
00:35:02.340 --> 00:35:08.760
And dear Psai Town is in there as well. famous Dalek operator and fondant surprise victim in the happiness patrol.

508
00:35:09.360 --> 00:35:12.659
There's also, of course, speaking of famous Daleks.

509
00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:14.639
Roy Skelton playing Chidaki.

510
00:35:14.699 --> 00:35:15.000
Yes.

511
00:35:15.300 --> 00:35:18.179
I think Roy Skelton is the worst Dalek voice.

512
00:35:21.539 --> 00:35:23.280
Apart from Michael Messalin, obviously.

513
00:35:25.800 --> 00:35:27.539
But he is quite good in this.

514
00:35:27.840 --> 00:35:28.500
I have to say.

515
00:35:35.579 --> 00:35:50.460
So I was playing a game whilst I was watching this to try and work out where the extra dialogue came in from the underrunning, and I think it's the scene when Sarah saves doctor from the machine on the corral ship.

516
00:35:50.519 --> 00:35:51.420
I feel disoriented.

517
00:35:51.539 --> 00:35:53.639
This is the disorientation centre.

518
00:35:54.239 --> 00:36:06.000
Actually, I thought that was the funniest line, and they did call it the disorientation centre earlier on in dialogue, and it did seem like a very kind of new hoo joke, actually.

519
00:36:06.059 --> 00:36:06.719
Yeah, yeah.

520
00:36:06.780 --> 00:36:19.559
But you're right, James, that was one of the extensions, and I don't know if it was scripted or if Tom and Liz came up with it in rehearsal, but some of the other extensions were a lot of Chadaki and Stigren chatting away scenes.

521
00:36:20.039 --> 00:36:32.340
And the thing is, Philip Hinchcliffe generally hated rubber suited monsters talking to one another, but it was kind of like, we're underrunning, and also, Terry was a lot more interested in Crayford and the Androids, and he was in the kraals.

522
00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:39.780
And if you look at F4, which didn't have a lot of rewrites from Bob Holmes, Stigrid only talks in one scene when he confronts the doctor.

523
00:36:39.840 --> 00:36:44.519
So particularly the scene where Chadaki's like, but how do we know the androids won't turn on us?

524
00:36:44.579 --> 00:36:47.039
And Stickron's like, well, because I can shoot them in the face?

525
00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:49.679
That whole home seat.

526
00:36:49.739 --> 00:36:49.980
Right.

527
00:36:50.039 --> 00:36:52.019
I mean, that baffling that scene.

528
00:36:52.079 --> 00:36:54.360
Because I was kind of wondering what it was setting up.

529
00:36:54.539 --> 00:36:59.400
Like, it had to be kind of setting up shooting the fake...

530
00:36:59.400 --> 00:37:01.440
Android doctor in episode four?

531
00:37:01.440 --> 00:37:06.300
Or is it the fake Tom shooting, is it Stigwater doctor?

532
00:37:06.360 --> 00:37:10.500
Well, sticker and yeah, sticker and shoots the fake Tom, but we think is the real Tom.

533
00:37:11.699 --> 00:37:17.400
But also, I don't think we're under any doubt that an alien laser gun would destroy an android anyway.

534
00:37:17.460 --> 00:37:18.179
Yes, that's right.

535
00:37:18.239 --> 00:37:21.000
We could have just believed that had it happened.

536
00:37:21.539 --> 00:37:23.579
Would have been going, how is that even possible?

537
00:37:24.059 --> 00:37:25.980
So it's hard to know what that scene was for.

538
00:37:26.579 --> 00:37:31.079
I do have to say the special effect of the light coming from the gun looked absolutely gray.

539
00:37:31.199 --> 00:37:32.219
Yeah, properly good.

540
00:37:33.119 --> 00:37:37.860
Barry Letts is the master of CSO and also...

541
00:37:38.039 --> 00:37:42.719
And also, you know, does the 1st on-screen laser effects in Doctor Who as part of his era.

542
00:37:42.780 --> 00:37:45.239
So if you need anyone to do it, he's going to do it.

543
00:37:45.300 --> 00:37:47.519
And the CSO in this story is actually really good.

544
00:37:48.119 --> 00:37:48.719
Yeah, yeah.

545
00:37:49.079 --> 00:37:55.739
I also love the fact that it's not quite perfect, but they've spent a lot of time lining up the eyes of the Android with Tom's face.

546
00:37:56.219 --> 00:37:59.400
Like when it just, it's almost perfect with the eyeballs.

547
00:37:59.699 --> 00:38:01.139
Yeah, yeah. really well done.

548
00:38:01.199 --> 00:38:01.679
Yeah, yeah.

549
00:38:08.400 --> 00:38:12.960
Terry's original idea for the Kraals was actually to have them insectoid.

550
00:38:13.079 --> 00:38:14.099
But we couldn't afford that?

551
00:38:14.280 --> 00:38:15.239
Well...

552
00:38:15.239 --> 00:38:16.019
We saw the we're in.

553
00:38:16.260 --> 00:38:17.039
Yeah, yeah.

554
00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:22.260
All he sort of talked about was like an insectoid carapace, which became the hump.

555
00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:23.820
Okay, okay.

556
00:38:23.820 --> 00:38:24.179
Yeah.

557
00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:32.820
And then the designer went in the direction of, oh, okay, radiation, you need a resilient skin, what has a resilient skin, rhinoceroses?

558
00:38:32.880 --> 00:38:37.500
I'll make them look like rhinoceroses, but was also thinking, oh, reptiles are very durable.

559
00:38:37.860 --> 00:38:43.980
Like the Crystal Palace dinosaur with the big spike on its nose, like Stigren has.

560
00:38:44.099 --> 00:38:44.519
Yeah.

561
00:38:45.300 --> 00:38:59.039
And the other thing, and this was another red herring, the doctor expressed that there was a particular alien race who were very good at exerting a mesmeric influence, and that could be what's going on called the dominators.

562
00:39:01.679 --> 00:39:06.840
And now there's no evidence that Terry meant for it to be the previous thing.

563
00:39:06.900 --> 00:39:15.059
There's also no evidence that Terry Nation knows any homosexuals because in the subsequent lines, the doctor just keeps referring to them as the DOMs.

564
00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:19.619
Yeah, thank God that was Kart.

565
00:39:20.699 --> 00:39:24.900
Oh, and speaking of homosexuals, Kenneth Williams actually wrote about this story in his diaries.

566
00:39:24.960 --> 00:39:25.679
Oh, did he?

567
00:39:25.739 --> 00:39:26.099
Yeah.

568
00:39:26.159 --> 00:39:30.059
So watching episode 2 on Saturday, the 29th of November.

569
00:39:30.900 --> 00:39:32.219
Yeah, great cliffhanger.

570
00:39:32.639 --> 00:39:37.019
Watching part 2 of the Android Invasion on Saturday the 29th of November.

571
00:39:37.139 --> 00:39:41.039
Kenneth Williams wrote in his diary, Doctor Who gets more and more silly.

572
00:39:41.099 --> 00:39:41.639
That's all.

573
00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:47.639
Around the same time, he also hated porridge and the good life.

574
00:39:47.699 --> 00:39:50.280
So, you know, he might just be allergic to fun.

575
00:39:51.780 --> 00:39:53.639
He did just make carry on a manual.

576
00:39:55.019 --> 00:39:56.579
He didn't say he hated the silliness.

577
00:39:56.639 --> 00:39:57.420
Yes, that's true.

578
00:39:58.440 --> 00:39:59.639
I mean, he was in carry on.

579
00:40:31.260 --> 00:40:33.480
Well, that's all the time we have for this week.

580
00:40:33.539 --> 00:40:41.400
We'll be back next week. to watch Doctor Who's second Dalek focussed regeneration story, Destiny of the Daleks.

581
00:40:41.400 --> 00:41:00.059
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us on our website, 500yeardiary.com, where you'll find our social media links as well as links to all of our other podcasts, including the entirety of flights through entirety, which comprises every episode of our 4 Doctor Who podcasts.

582
00:41:01.679 --> 00:41:05.699
Until next time, did we ever mention that we can't stand ginger pop?

583
00:41:05.760 --> 00:41:09.599
We're mentioning it now, just in case it becomes important later on.

584
00:41:10.260 --> 00:41:12.239
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

585
00:41:12.719 --> 00:41:13.199
Good night.

586
00:41:13.260 --> 00:41:13.980
Ta ta.

587
00:41:14.039 --> 00:41:14.639
Be seeing you.

588
00:41:26.699 --> 00:41:32.400
That was 500 year diary, starring Nathan Bottomley, Stephen B, Brendan Jones, and James Selwood.

589
00:41:32.519 --> 00:41:34.800
The theme was composed by Cameron Lamb.

590
00:41:35.099 --> 00:41:42.300
This episode's slutty title was recorded on the 26th of July 2026 and released on the 18th of October.

591
00:41:45.360 --> 00:41:56.639
If you want to hear more about the Avengers from Brendan and Stephen, and of course, Richard, head on over to the three-handed game, a podcast which takes a look at themes from the entirety of the Avengers run.

592
00:41:57.179 --> 00:42:01.199
That's at the 300 game.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

593
00:42:10.559 --> 00:42:11.639
The thing you just looked up.

594
00:42:12.179 --> 00:42:13.920
Yeah, I think it's Michael Wishard.

595
00:42:14.280 --> 00:42:14.699
Yeah.

596
00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:15.659
Puppy.

597
00:42:16.199 --> 00:42:17.519
I may take your home with.

598
00:42:18.659 --> 00:42:20.340
Just put him in your pocket.

599
00:42:20.400 --> 00:42:21.840
It's a laptop.

600
00:42:22.380 --> 00:42:23.400
Lap top.

601
00:42:23.940 --> 00:42:25.079
Lap, top.

602
00:42:26.099 --> 00:42:26.820
Give it away.

603
00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:28.679
No, it's not just for life.

604
00:42:28.739 --> 00:42:30.059
It's Christmas.

605
00:42:32.219 --> 00:42:34.559
Oh, look, he's looking at me. those eyes.

606
00:42:35.340 --> 00:42:35.940
Nathan.

607
00:42:36.900 --> 00:42:38.820
He's so pretty. you pretty?

608
00:42:40.199 --> 00:42:45.300
He's a pretty boy World building transit.

609
00:42:45.360 --> 00:42:48.960
Oh, God, Sarah's outfit is so hot in revengeless, I mean, isn't it?

610
00:42:49.019 --> 00:42:49.800
She looks great.

611
00:42:50.940 --> 00:42:52.320
She does look great.

612
00:42:52.380 --> 00:42:54.000
I'm pretty sure it is, my whole wish show.

613
00:42:54.480 --> 00:42:56.880
Because Michael Wisher, doesn't he do the other voice?

614
00:42:56.940 --> 00:42:58.380
Doesn't he do the...

615
00:42:58.380 --> 00:43:00.780
Oh, the... shuttle anyone here?

616
00:43:01.980 --> 00:43:02.579
That guy?

617
00:43:02.760 --> 00:43:04.619
I do know that Vorus is David Collings.

618
00:43:04.739 --> 00:43:06.420
Yes, Vorus is David Collings.

619
00:43:06.480 --> 00:43:08.039
Kevin Stoney is Tyram.

620
00:43:08.219 --> 00:43:08.940
Tyram, yes.

621
00:43:08.940 --> 00:43:12.719
Tyram Banks.

622
00:43:12.840 --> 00:43:13.320
Yes.

623
00:43:13.320 --> 00:43:15.960
He's great too.

624
00:43:16.019 --> 00:43:18.420
Again, you get Kevin Stoney and you put a big rubber head on.

625
00:43:19.199 --> 00:43:19.920
Who was it?

626
00:43:19.980 --> 00:43:22.380
Who was it who came up with the term squabbling rubber?

627
00:43:22.500 --> 00:43:23.699
Is that Carrie Russell?

628
00:43:23.760 --> 00:43:24.480
I don't know.

629
00:43:24.480 --> 00:43:25.980
I can't remember.

630
00:43:26.039 --> 00:43:28.679
Is this someone like that, but I don't think it was.

631
00:43:28.679 --> 00:43:30.420
Maverick is Michael Wisher, yeah.

632
00:43:30.480 --> 00:43:30.900
Yeah, yeah.

633
00:43:31.260 --> 00:43:31.860
You're right.

634
00:43:31.920 --> 00:43:32.400
Yeah, share.

635
00:43:32.940 --> 00:43:34.559
Brian's a shepherd.

636
00:43:34.619 --> 00:43:35.519
What was it, Gary?

637
00:43:35.579 --> 00:43:36.300
Oh, Zap leader.

638
00:43:36.360 --> 00:43:36.599
Huh?

639
00:43:36.599 --> 00:43:37.739
Was it Gary Gillette?

640
00:43:38.340 --> 00:43:39.840
Yeah, maybe it was Gary Giller.

641
00:43:39.900 --> 00:43:42.539
Someone, anyway, someone, one of those people came up with squat.

642
00:43:42.659 --> 00:43:44.760
It is because Peter has mentioned it.

643
00:43:44.760 --> 00:43:45.539
Yeah.

644
00:43:46.559 --> 00:43:48.360
Lance Parkin just reposted this week.

645
00:43:49.380 --> 00:43:51.420
Star Trek has been making stories for 60 years.

646
00:43:51.539 --> 00:43:52.860
He is all 16 of them.

647
00:43:55.800 --> 00:44:02.460
And one of them, as you would expect, is some family member turns up on the Enterprise and is either hilariously annoying or evil.

648
00:44:05.099 --> 00:44:07.800
Gosh, did you see Stranger Wells, they say?

649
00:44:07.860 --> 00:44:08.099
Yes.

650
00:44:08.159 --> 00:44:08.579
So good.

651
00:44:08.699 --> 00:44:09.960
Yeah, I loved it.

652
00:44:10.619 --> 00:44:14.460
I think they missed a trick not having the aliens from Distant Origin in it.

653
00:44:14.880 --> 00:44:16.920
Yeah, yeah, where, where, the Voth.

654
00:44:16.980 --> 00:44:18.960
But I thought that that was great.

655
00:44:19.019 --> 00:44:27.360
That woman, the, and having Martians and stuff and like Earth has 3 class 7 planets, like it's one of 3 that was all of that stuff was so fun.

656
00:44:27.780 --> 00:44:29.400
It's like, you are short.

657
00:44:30.780 --> 00:44:32.880
She was really good. she someone that I should know?

658
00:44:33.059 --> 00:44:33.840
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

659
00:44:34.199 --> 00:44:37.320
And I can't remember her name now, but she is a name where I'm like, oh, it's her, right?

660
00:44:37.380 --> 00:44:38.820
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

661
00:44:38.940 --> 00:44:42.179
Though the Voth wouldn't have been there because they'd already left.

662
00:44:42.179 --> 00:44:45.239
They'd seen something coming to destroy their planet.

663
00:44:45.360 --> 00:44:45.960
The moon.

664
00:44:45.960 --> 00:44:48.000
Like this, like the Silurians.

665
00:44:48.119 --> 00:44:49.139
Anson mounts hair.

666
00:44:49.199 --> 00:44:50.099
That's an answer.

667
00:44:50.400 --> 00:44:51.059
So great.

668
00:44:51.119 --> 00:44:52.019
It was so good.

669
00:44:52.199 --> 00:45:00.780
Pellina has now the, the, there's um, Carol Kane from, um, uh, what she from, Kimmy Schmidt.

670
00:45:00.840 --> 00:45:01.559
Yeah, Kimmy Schmidt.

671
00:45:01.559 --> 00:45:02.699
Princess Bride.

672
00:45:02.699 --> 00:45:04.679
Yeah, she is from 1985.

673
00:45:05.579 --> 00:45:07.320
She is 1000s of years old.

674
00:45:07.380 --> 00:45:10.260
She's an alien who's 1000s of years old and she's an alien.

675
00:45:10.559 --> 00:45:11.639
Well, she's from Earth.

676
00:45:12.119 --> 00:45:13.199
Well, she's a lanternite.

677
00:45:13.260 --> 00:45:14.039
Yeah, they are aliens.

678
00:45:14.159 --> 00:45:16.500
And she... they're native to earth.

679
00:45:17.460 --> 00:45:17.880
No, no, no.

680
00:45:18.539 --> 00:45:20.099
They've been on Earth. so many rans.

681
00:45:20.880 --> 00:45:21.840
So what they are.

682
00:45:21.840 --> 00:45:22.440
No, no, no.

683
00:45:22.500 --> 00:45:23.760
They've just been on Earth for a long time.

684
00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:25.199
They're in a Voyager episode.

685
00:45:25.500 --> 00:45:27.000
Okay.

686
00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:28.019
Beside your NCAA.

687
00:45:28.739 --> 00:45:35.280
And she says that the last time she saw a spatial anomaly like this, it was from a phone box.

688
00:45:35.280 --> 00:45:40.679
And if she has suggested that it's not the 1st time she's... travels with a doctor.

689
00:45:40.860 --> 00:45:41.820
Time travelling doctor.

690
00:45:41.880 --> 00:45:47.099
Yeah, this episode last season where she's like, remind me to tattoo of the time I met a time travelling doctor.

691
00:45:47.159 --> 00:45:48.059
Oh I've said too much.

692
00:45:49.199 --> 00:45:52.619
But also she implies he was very sexy, so it's basically it's shooting.

693
00:45:53.039 --> 00:45:58.320
There's no way that those 2 are doing their nails and stuff.

694
00:45:58.980 --> 00:46:12.420
But also, like, there was an interview with, was it, like some of the showrunners, 4 Star Trek, saying, we had been in negotiations with Russell, to do a, to, to, to do a crossover, but never came to pass.

695
00:46:12.599 --> 00:46:14.519
Yeah, and there and there was...

696
00:46:14.519 --> 00:46:19.559
The TARDIS was visible in... in an episode last season, like the Enterprise is trapped in this other ship.

697
00:46:19.619 --> 00:46:21.480
Like it's been drawn in by 10 books.

698
00:46:21.840 --> 00:46:25.679
And as you pan around the ship, there's a police box sitting on one of the Nasselles.

699
00:46:26.219 --> 00:46:26.820
That's nice.

700
00:46:27.420 --> 00:46:27.780
Yeah.

701
00:46:27.780 --> 00:46:31.559
So, yes, shooty stalker, though, for sure.

702
00:46:33.059 --> 00:46:34.920
Much like much like the plot of this episode.

703
00:46:34.980 --> 00:46:35.880
Shall we get back on tour?

704
00:46:35.940 --> 00:46:37.980
Yeah, we should.

705
00:46:37.980 --> 00:46:39.239
What are we got to talk about?

706
00:46:39.420 --> 00:46:41.760
Are you entering through the countryside is the point?

707
00:46:42.179 --> 00:46:44.039
Did you want to talk about Michael Wisher?

708
00:46:44.639 --> 00:46:45.539
No, not particularly.

709
00:46:45.599 --> 00:46:46.380
Okay, I do.

710
00:46:47.940 --> 00:46:50.699
Surely you should have said, do you wish to talk about Michael?

711
00:46:51.539 --> 00:46:52.860
Who do we wish to talk about?

712
00:46:53.699 --> 00:46:55.019
I think I said everything here.

713
00:46:55.380 --> 00:46:57.239
There is one thing I did forget to say.

714
00:46:57.539 --> 00:47:00.000
We've gone 57 minutes, so...

715
00:47:01.739 --> 00:47:05.460
I've just mentioned 2 last things about the drafting process.

716
00:47:05.579 --> 00:47:09.479
So Terry's original idea for the...