WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-03 at 08:52:57

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to 500 year diary.

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The only Doctor Who podcast that's just thought of an excellent

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way you can get out of buying Christmas presents for your nieces

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and nephews this year.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Adam.

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And I'm Todd.

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It's Friday, the 10th of July, 2009.

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It's been just over 23 hours since the government decided to hand

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over the horrid people's children to this season's rubbery alien

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menace.

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And tonight, again, about 6000000 people have tuned in to watch

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our heroes heroically saving the day.

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Let's see how they manage that as we discuss torchwood, children

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of earth, day five.

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So, we start this week with Prime Minister Green, giving us a

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solemn message about what to do with our children.

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Do we?

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Pretty much.

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Doesn't Gwen have some sort of...

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Oh, yeah, she talks into sequence?

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I want to forget that.

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I actually...

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I actually really dislike that.

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But it's a Russell thing, where he throws something in at the

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beginning of an episode, whether it's Doctor Who or whatever, as a

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bit of a misdirect, and you see something then happened 3 quarters

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of the way through.

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Yeah.

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So it's a little bit like the beginning of Army of Ghosts, where

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you get Rose on the Pass saying this is the story of how I died.

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And then of course, she didn't die.

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This one, I think, is really, really kind of overwrought.

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Yeah.

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Also, it's that thing whenever he does a non-doctor thing, it's

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like, I've got to mention the doctor and how amazing he is.

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It's like, no I've watched that show.

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Yeah, yeah.

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It's poochie.

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He'll wander into anything.

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And like people behave badly in front of him all the time.

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I know.

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Yeah, it's trying to ask the question, why is the doctor not

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here?

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Yes.

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And the answer to that question is...

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He's busy.

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He's, no, he's playing Hamlet.

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Oh yeah.

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The actress, you mean.

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But like one of the things that I really like about Planet of the

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Dead is that it is a season opener for a season that never ends up

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happening.

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And the doctor decides at the end of Planet of the Dead, which is

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light and fun and like a season opening romp by Russell.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And that's the time when we have the season open as well.

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And then the doctor at the end says, no, I'm not going to have a

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season.

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Like he actually says, I'm not going to do it because, you know

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Donna, because of all of the stuff that's been going on.

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And so we don't have a season.

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And so there's a kind of in universe reason why there's no 2009

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season.

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I don't think we need it.

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I think it's overwrought and we get to see it again.

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Yeah, I hate when you see things twice. like and they don't

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resolve in a different way.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Like, it's like, if you saw this at the start and you go, ooh, this

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is exciting.

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And then you get to it and it's like, yeah, she's, we saw that.

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She's just recording it from a different angle.

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Like, I want the reveal to be like the rose thing.

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It's like, 0 no, she doesn't die.

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Like it's actually, it's a different kind of death.

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It's like the death of her emotionally and the end of her life in

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that universe.

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Whereas this is just, yeah, Gwen's just, she actually did say, oh

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that shit.

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Yeah, and we're just seeing it from a certain perspective for a

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moment so that we can mention the doctor.

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The doctor right off the bat.

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Because it's the finale and it's Friday.

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Yeah.

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I think so.

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I mean, I think it is unfortunate.

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I do think it's overwrought.

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I don't think it looks very good.

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And when they do it later, you get the advantage of, like I

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think...

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Oh, she's holding the keys.

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She holding that little key.

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Yeah.

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Reese, Reese, like it just drops a tear for a moment.

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Like, it's actually quite a good scene.

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And I do think that that plot, which we'll get to, with her

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rescuing the kids joining forces with Johnny and Rhiannon to

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rescue the kids is great. absolute highlight of the episode, I

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think.

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Yeah, it just feels weird at the start.

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Also, I don't know if it's because this was made at the beginning

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of HDTV because Euroslin is framing everything like it's still in

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43 and it was a giant head and I've got it ridiculously large

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television.

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So many times in this episode, things are shown on a cassode ray

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television with like all the lines and the bits and they're so

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blown up that it's like, you're hurting my eyes.

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I don't need to see a news reader any closer than they actually

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are on television.

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I don't want to see up Trinity Wells nostrils.

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Can I shout out for a second?

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Because that is in this montage at the beginning?

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which is kind of getting us to where we are, that the BBC

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newsreader, Louise Minchin, I think, absolutely is so good.

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She just properly sells it and sounds exactly, well, like

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herself.

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I mean, there's the most surprising reason why she sounds like a

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BBC.

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Also that thing where BBC news readers are like...

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I'm meant to sound unbiassed, but I have kind of an opinion.

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But do you think it's like, if somebody's flicking the channel and

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suddenly they flick it on and she's suddenly there saying this

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stuff, somebody could go, oh, oh, like, you know, something's

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actually happened.

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I feel...

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I think that the BBC wouldn't allow them to just show it on the

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screen.

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Yeah, yeah, that has to be.

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Yeah, you have to be looking at a TV show.

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And so I think all of the cathode ray, you know, the little pixel

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elements.

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They're all there because they're required.

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But, I mean, you could shoot it across the room.

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Like, you don't, it's, I mean, it's very Russell to go from TV

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show to TV show to the TV show, like flick, flick, flick.

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Like I see all the different...

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Paul O'Grady and Army of Ghosts and stuff.

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Barbara Windsor.

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Yeah, that's wonderful.

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Awesome.

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Just tremendous stuff.

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Bring back Barbara.

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It's all a bit too serious for that here.

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But I do think that the news reader is absolutely superb.

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And I do think too, the appeal, like experiencing Prime Minister

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Green's appeal, his calling for their faith, you know, he thanks

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them for their faith.

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All of that stuff is super brutal, isn't it?

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Like he's just looking straight into the camera straight on, doing

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his best sincerity impression and calling on people to trust him

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when we know what the inoculations are all about.

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Yeah, from last night's episode.

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It's pretty great.

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I also love that it's very British.

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Like, an American show would never entertain this.

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Like it would, that would find a way before the president had to

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go up and say, we're taking all the kids.

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Yeah, yeah.

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They would find a way to be annoying about it.

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Whereas because I know I said this last time I was on, because

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this has that very John Wyndham, British feel to it, it's just

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like, yeah, we'll we'll just sacrifice a whole bunch of people.

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Like, we used to send them down to the underground and let the

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bombs drop on them. we'll do it.

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I mean, I think that what we're kind of talking about is that that

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underclass, that perpetual English underclass.

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And one thing that emerges here and it said a couple of times is

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that actually most people are going to be unaffected by this.

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Most wealthy people.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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So Johnson says to Alice.

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It's all right. you know, Stephen's going to be okay.

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They're not taking the nice children.

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Yeah.

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Well, that should be ringing alarm bells the moment that's...

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Yeah, yeah.

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I mean, even other people's justifications, like the woman who's

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in charge of the troops and stuff, the Black Ops woman.

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And she's like, she's like, oh, they'll just be taking those kids

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off the street corners.

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Yeah, yeah.

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No, no, they're going to take other kids.

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Well, that's right.

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And I mean, that is eventually what happens because, you know

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they're not cooperating.

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So we, I mean, it's perhaps the least plausible thing about the

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episode, I think, that you could get the British government to do

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anything.

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It's of alacrity.

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Yeah, but given that, I think they actually really managed to sell

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it quite well on a BBC bunches.

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I also think, you know, now with hindsight of having been through

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COVID, things can be done really quickly.

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Yeah.

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And the army can be mobilised in a hurry with things like that.

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And you just go, ooh, this actually lands a lot harder than I, it

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probably would at the time.

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Like it seemed silly and out there and now we're on the other side

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of that kind of thing happening in certain countries.

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So you think they actually sell their actual taking of the

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children with their 20 troops and one bus?

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And somehow, and they're one school and they're one council estate

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with 15 policemen or whatever, 15 people, I don't agree with you.

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And I think yours is trying so hard, but I just sit there going

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really?

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Like, really?

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I don't know.

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Maybe it's because I work in TV, like that many children, that is

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an expensive shoot.

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That is a crazy, expensive shoot.

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Like, obviously when there's a big field of them, they're all

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comped in.

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And that looks crappy.

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That looks 6 kids or paste it.

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I was looking at that gang, are you kidding?

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That's fooling no one.

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I know.

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It's like that French and Saunders doing the Titanic.

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Have you seen that?

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Where they're like...

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It was directed by Edgar Wright.

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And they're like, oh, don't do anything to their extras in the

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making of the Titanic and they're like, don't do anything to

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extreme because we're going to paste you into various areas.

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And next thing you see is like the Titanic and it's them

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overacting everything.

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Oh, my baby.

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I did I did try and spot repeating chills.

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Yeah, I know.

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Because there's one particular gormless looking child with like

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butt teeth in the front and it's like, all right, I'm looking for

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him throughout the rest of it.

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Oh, look, I'm being a bit harsh.

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And I think they are really trying really hard to sell all of

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those things, but at times I just kind of went, like, I think what

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makes it work is that what we get to see is the sort of thing that

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you would never do in classic Doctor Who, which is just having a

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character who doesn't have a name who's reacting to something

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against dialogue.

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And we 1st see it in the Christmas invasion, I think, in Doctor

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Who, where remember all of those people are kind of walking along

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the street under blood control and you get a woman trying to

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attract her family's attention and she has dialogue.

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And here you have that woman who, like, there's a couple of people

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objecting to the children being taken offside in the buses, and

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then there's the kid who escapes and gets caught and then dragged

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away.

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And then later on on the estate, you see, again, those 15 troops

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or whatever.

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But there's enough shots of distressed parents having their

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children ripped away from them that, like, I don't know that

253
00:12:09.240 --> 00:12:11.759
repeating that in different venues would have helped.

254
00:12:11.879 --> 00:12:17.879
I, like, my crazy justification starts to work, like, because of

255
00:12:17.879 --> 00:12:21.840
my ridiculous theory podcast, where I'm like, oh, there was only a

256
00:12:21.840 --> 00:12:23.580
handful of parents, because everyone else is at work.

257
00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:28.860
I know what you're saying, Adam, because like I like to try and

258
00:12:28.860 --> 00:12:29.700
justify everything too.

259
00:12:29.759 --> 00:12:33.000
But I just kind of really, I'm put, I'm guessing I'm putting a

260
00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:34.919
2026 lens back onto this.

261
00:12:34.919 --> 00:12:37.559
And, you know, and for that time, I know fully well, like with the

262
00:12:37.559 --> 00:12:39.240
budgets and all that sort of thing.

263
00:12:39.299 --> 00:12:39.960
They did it.

264
00:12:40.019 --> 00:12:40.500
It's great.

265
00:12:40.559 --> 00:12:42.960
But at the same time, it's sort of like, could I have double the

266
00:12:42.960 --> 00:12:43.620
amount of people?

267
00:12:43.679 --> 00:12:45.000
What I'd be satisfied with that?

268
00:12:45.059 --> 00:12:45.659
I don't know.

269
00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:47.639
But the acting's great.

270
00:12:47.700 --> 00:12:48.600
The direction's great.

271
00:12:48.659 --> 00:12:52.679
They're really selling it with the parent extras and, you know...

272
00:12:52.740 --> 00:12:56.639
And Euros is like really keeping it as tight as possible because

273
00:12:56.639 --> 00:13:00.480
that's the only way to sell a pretend crowd is to focus on a

274
00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:02.399
handful of people and not see too much background.

275
00:13:02.460 --> 00:13:03.600
Yeah.

276
00:13:03.659 --> 00:13:05.580
And like, I think they have a couple of buses.

277
00:13:05.639 --> 00:13:07.559
Like, I think they have more than just the one bass.

278
00:13:07.620 --> 00:13:10.080
And I think they managed to get shots of the children looking

279
00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:10.799
distressed.

280
00:13:10.860 --> 00:13:13.799
Like, and clearly they're picking the best wongs.

281
00:13:13.860 --> 00:13:14.700
Oh, you know.

282
00:13:14.759 --> 00:13:17.519
The not too overacting ones, but also they're not just sitting

283
00:13:17.519 --> 00:13:17.820
there.

284
00:13:17.879 --> 00:13:19.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

285
00:13:19.080 --> 00:13:20.220
There are some just sitting there.

286
00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:23.460
There are just there going, okay.

287
00:13:23.519 --> 00:13:26.220
But they do manage to get some shots.

288
00:13:26.279 --> 00:13:28.259
The kids doing the acting get paid extra.

289
00:13:29.399 --> 00:13:33.960
It's really expensive because every child comes with a parent.

290
00:13:34.019 --> 00:13:37.259
So every single child is there with a guardian.

291
00:13:37.320 --> 00:13:40.500
And that is an expensive, expensive day.

292
00:13:40.559 --> 00:13:44.039
And there are lots of those shots all the way through.

293
00:13:44.100 --> 00:13:49.620
I mean, I do think, and I do remember this feeling really

294
00:13:49.620 --> 00:13:50.159
expensive.

295
00:13:50.220 --> 00:13:51.299
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

296
00:13:51.299 --> 00:13:51.899
And at the time.

297
00:13:51.960 --> 00:13:57.659
Yeah, and I remember as well, just that sort of sense of scale as

298
00:13:57.659 --> 00:14:00.539
being something that Doctor Who hadn't managed to do, even in

299
00:14:00.539 --> 00:14:05.159
things like Aliens of London or Doomsday, where there were giant

300
00:14:05.159 --> 00:14:05.759
things happening.

301
00:14:05.820 --> 00:14:09.539
They were mostly sort of giant computer generated things

302
00:14:09.539 --> 00:14:10.080
happening.

303
00:14:10.139 --> 00:14:15.960
Whereas here, because this is very domestic, because this is like

304
00:14:15.960 --> 00:14:20.340
an alien invasion that intrudes on people's homes, as we've said

305
00:14:20.340 --> 00:14:24.480
before, as Mrs. Frobisher, you know, made the point a couple of

306
00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:25.019
nights ago.

307
00:14:25.080 --> 00:14:30.120
Um, uh, it it just seems bigger.

308
00:14:30.179 --> 00:14:33.179
And I think that's why at the time I thought maybe this is the

309
00:14:33.179 --> 00:14:36.240
best thing of this RTD era.

310
00:14:36.360 --> 00:14:38.639
Oh, including everything.

311
00:14:38.700 --> 00:14:39.539
Yeah.

312
00:14:39.539 --> 00:14:40.019
Maybe.

313
00:14:40.080 --> 00:14:40.860
Maybe.

314
00:14:40.919 --> 00:14:42.539
I mean, there are other things that I like better.

315
00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:44.580
And I like Doctor Who and its tone.

316
00:14:44.700 --> 00:14:48.179
This is a little bit bleak for me, but torchwood can get away with

317
00:14:48.179 --> 00:14:48.360
it.

318
00:14:48.419 --> 00:14:49.620
Yeah, torture is like that.

319
00:14:49.679 --> 00:14:52.500
You know, one thing I found weird at the end of watching it was

320
00:14:52.500 --> 00:14:57.539
how many scenes you go, this absolutely would never happen.

321
00:14:57.600 --> 00:15:03.059
Like, you haven't thought this through, but the acting is so

322
00:15:03.059 --> 00:15:03.360
great.

323
00:15:03.419 --> 00:15:08.940
The writing of the dialogue and the interactions are so incredibly

324
00:15:08.940 --> 00:15:14.340
emotionally powerful that you forgive the giant holes in the

325
00:15:14.340 --> 00:15:14.639
plot.

326
00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:15.059
Yeah.

327
00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:18.779
Which is one of Russell's biggest problems that he writes great

328
00:15:18.779 --> 00:15:22.860
kitchen sync drama and does not really care if you follow the plot

329
00:15:22.860 --> 00:15:23.279
at all.

330
00:15:23.340 --> 00:15:25.679
It's a lot of hand waving science fiction.

331
00:15:25.740 --> 00:15:29.100
It's a lot of, yeah, though, they would absolutely be in a room

332
00:15:29.100 --> 00:15:29.580
together.

333
00:15:29.639 --> 00:15:31.320
Also, at what point?

334
00:15:31.379 --> 00:15:34.860
Did, like, you know, it's the entire world that's meant to be

335
00:15:34.860 --> 00:15:38.100
sending their children, but we've just pretended that everyone

336
00:15:38.100 --> 00:15:41.399
else is doing this same thing that the British...

337
00:15:41.460 --> 00:15:43.379
But we're just focussing on the British one.

338
00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:46.019
It's like, yeah, how are you getting all the other kids?

339
00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:46.919
Yeah.

340
00:15:46.980 --> 00:15:47.639
Yeah.

341
00:15:47.700 --> 00:15:49.620
And again, that's exactly it.

342
00:15:49.679 --> 00:15:51.480
That is kind of fridge logic, isn't it?

343
00:15:51.539 --> 00:15:54.899
Yeah, you aren't really worried about that and you're aware that

344
00:15:54.899 --> 00:15:58.139
this is the story being told and mediated through these characters

345
00:15:58.139 --> 00:16:02.879
and what he does is what a Doctor Who story would never do, which

346
00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:05.700
is he gives children to these major characters.

347
00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:07.799
So Jack has a grandchild.

348
00:16:07.860 --> 00:16:09.480
Frobisher has children.

349
00:16:09.539 --> 00:16:11.759
You've got Yanto's family as well.

350
00:16:11.820 --> 00:16:13.799
We've got kids from each class.

351
00:16:13.799 --> 00:16:18.539
And as I've said before, having children is a very grown up thing

352
00:16:18.539 --> 00:16:19.259
to do.

353
00:16:19.320 --> 00:16:25.019
It makes the show seem more grown up because when you're a kid and

354
00:16:25.019 --> 00:16:26.039
you're watching Doctor Who.

355
00:16:26.100 --> 00:16:27.600
You not thinking about what it's like to have kids.

356
00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:31.139
Well, there's no kids in Doctor Who until really Moffatt starts

357
00:16:31.139 --> 00:16:33.120
dragging them in from all over the place.

358
00:16:33.179 --> 00:16:34.379
Yeah, yeah.

359
00:16:34.440 --> 00:16:37.259
But you remember, like, I remember that scene where Watson called

360
00:16:37.259 --> 00:16:39.600
home in the hand of fear.

361
00:16:39.659 --> 00:16:40.679
It's super cheesy.

362
00:16:40.740 --> 00:16:43.440
And it does say, you know, tell the children I love them or

363
00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:43.799
whatever.

364
00:16:43.860 --> 00:16:47.639
And that kind of hits because that never happens in classic

365
00:16:47.639 --> 00:16:48.419
doctor.

366
00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:49.559
No one has children.

367
00:16:49.620 --> 00:16:51.779
No, no, that's right. children don't exist.

368
00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:52.620
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

369
00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:55.259
Children are for watching Doctor Who, not for being in.

370
00:16:55.259 --> 00:16:56.039
Not for being in it.

371
00:16:56.100 --> 00:16:59.159
And that's partly because Doctor Who, classic Doctor Who, is about

372
00:16:59.159 --> 00:17:02.820
men at work, having alien invasions and things.

373
00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:07.140
And so the moment you move it into the domestic sphere, I mean

374
00:17:07.140 --> 00:17:10.680
it's why Eccleston's doctor says, I don't do domestic because he

375
00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:14.940
never has, but a few episodes after that, he's trying to push a

376
00:17:14.940 --> 00:17:19.440
toddler out of the way of the TV, you know, in Jackie Tyler's

377
00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:19.799
flat.

378
00:17:33.480 --> 00:17:36.359
And, of course, it ramps up, doesn't it?

379
00:17:36.420 --> 00:17:37.859
We keep cutting back throughout the episode.

380
00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:42.000
There's different phases, so initially we get 60% of people

381
00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:44.940
responding and sending their kids to school.

382
00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:48.779
Also that, oh, there's that gruesome scene where it's like, oh, it

383
00:17:48.779 --> 00:17:49.440
seems to be playing well.

384
00:17:51.180 --> 00:17:52.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

385
00:17:53.039 --> 00:17:56.220
So, 0 my god, it's so politician to go.

386
00:17:56.339 --> 00:18:00.720
Yeah, we're murdering a whole bunch of kids, but it's working.

387
00:18:00.779 --> 00:18:01.859
It's working for my numbers.

388
00:18:01.980 --> 00:18:03.180
Yeah.

389
00:18:03.180 --> 00:18:10.440
And I guess maybe the 1st big proper action sequence apart from

390
00:18:10.440 --> 00:18:13.259
all of that sort of stuff without characters is that scene with

391
00:18:13.259 --> 00:18:18.119
Capaldi and the Prime Minister. where he is the scapegoat.

392
00:18:18.119 --> 00:18:22.380
It's like, well, I'm sorry, but your kids are going.

393
00:18:22.440 --> 00:18:26.220
That's one of the scenes where I was like, this absolutely makes

394
00:18:26.220 --> 00:18:27.299
no sense logically.

395
00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:31.920
But, you know, it's Peter Capaldi and he's brilliant in that scene

396
00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:36.960
and he is, he's such a milk toast character who's like, I want to

397
00:18:36.960 --> 00:18:41.819
rail against this, but I'm a civil servant and I, I don't have the

398
00:18:41.819 --> 00:18:42.900
armaments to do that.

399
00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:47.099
But he really, like that moment where he says they're just girls

400
00:18:47.099 --> 00:18:49.019
so they're just girls.

401
00:18:49.019 --> 00:18:53.279
And because I'm used to Malcolm Tucker and I'm used to him as the

402
00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:53.579
doctor.

403
00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:55.920
Like, why isn't he punching him in the face?

404
00:18:55.980 --> 00:18:57.359
like in thin ice.

405
00:18:57.420 --> 00:19:00.359
Why doesn't he pick up the desk and just sort of smack him over

406
00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:00.779
the head with it?

407
00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:01.440
Great actor.

408
00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:02.579
He's incredible.

409
00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:04.559
Like he's just incredible.

410
00:19:04.619 --> 00:19:08.759
For me, I think it is implausible, but the great thing about it is

411
00:19:08.759 --> 00:19:11.460
just the needless cruelty of it.

412
00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:15.480
It's a very Russell T. David scene where you go, this scene makes

413
00:19:15.480 --> 00:19:16.079
no sense.

414
00:19:16.200 --> 00:19:20.279
It has no place in the show, but it absolutely emotionally

415
00:19:20.279 --> 00:19:22.200
resonates and gives.

416
00:19:23.220 --> 00:19:27.539
It basically gives us the viewer, the feeling of what all these

417
00:19:27.539 --> 00:19:31.319
parents will be feeling when they find out what really happened, if

418
00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:32.819
the whole thing goes through kind of thing.

419
00:19:32.940 --> 00:19:35.339
I don't know if I agree that it makes no sense.

420
00:19:35.400 --> 00:19:41.460
I just feel that he set up this prime minister from the get go to

421
00:19:41.460 --> 00:19:43.140
be the evil cartoon villain.

422
00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:45.119
And so he's going to do that thing.

423
00:19:45.180 --> 00:19:50.519
So in my head, it's justified that he's going to have Frobisher B

424
00:19:50.519 --> 00:19:53.220
the scapegoat for the government and the one that everybody sees

425
00:19:53.279 --> 00:19:54.720
somebody has to do it.

426
00:19:54.779 --> 00:19:57.119
You not going to do it with the nameless person in the next

427
00:19:57.119 --> 00:19:57.720
cubicle.

428
00:19:57.779 --> 00:19:58.319
Do you know what I mean?

429
00:19:58.380 --> 00:20:00.900
Yeah, but also Frobisher is like, who is he?

430
00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:01.920
He's a public servant.

431
00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:03.240
No one would really know who he is.

432
00:20:03.299 --> 00:20:05.700
He's been working at MI5 or whatever it is.

433
00:20:05.759 --> 00:20:07.859
He's been working clandestinely.

434
00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:10.920
So to choose him to be the face of the government.

435
00:20:10.980 --> 00:20:14.519
That's the bit that I go, that makes no sense to me.

436
00:20:14.579 --> 00:20:16.619
It should be, you'd choose the home office.

437
00:20:16.680 --> 00:20:18.119
Like the home secretary?

438
00:20:18.180 --> 00:20:21.779
Yeah, or you'd choose someone, you know, the treasurer, so like

439
00:20:21.779 --> 00:20:25.319
narratively, it makes no sense to choose someone like that.

440
00:20:25.380 --> 00:20:28.380
But logically, it would make more sense.

441
00:20:28.440 --> 00:20:32.400
But narratively, it's so much more satisfying that it is Frobisher

442
00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:36.900
because he's done all these terrible things by covering all this

443
00:20:36.900 --> 00:20:40.859
up, by instituting all this and having people killed in episode

444
00:20:40.859 --> 00:20:41.339
one.

445
00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:46.680
So, of course, on a narrative level, we go, yes, he needs to be

446
00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:49.980
punished for all the things that he's done so far because he's

447
00:20:49.980 --> 00:20:52.740
been such a toady and done everything that needed to be done.

448
00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:57.359
So it feels satisfying on that level, but just in a governmental

449
00:20:57.359 --> 00:21:01.319
publicity level, it feels like a disconnect.

450
00:21:01.380 --> 00:21:04.380
But I absolutely think it narratively works perfectly.

451
00:21:04.440 --> 00:21:08.519
The thing with Russell, and you said it like, you know, has these

452
00:21:08.519 --> 00:21:11.880
plot holes, but I think when you know Russell's on point, is that

453
00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:12.720
you don't think about that.

454
00:21:12.779 --> 00:21:15.059
So I didn't think about that.

455
00:21:15.059 --> 00:21:18.359
He's the one that's going to get done because he's the one that's

456
00:21:18.359 --> 00:21:20.460
carrying this out for the government, right?

457
00:21:20.519 --> 00:21:21.420
So I didn't.

458
00:21:21.900 --> 00:21:23.400
This never occurred to me until this viewing.

459
00:21:23.460 --> 00:21:25.019
So for this time.

460
00:21:25.079 --> 00:21:29.039
So when Russell's on point, you don't think about what you've just

461
00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:30.720
thought about, like, I don't think about that.

462
00:21:30.779 --> 00:21:31.799
Therefore, it's really good.

463
00:21:31.859 --> 00:21:35.039
Like it's when he's not on point, when you've still got dialogue

464
00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:37.559
and you've still got things, but you see all of the plot holes

465
00:21:37.619 --> 00:21:38.940
that annoys me.

466
00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:42.299
Whereas with this, I don't see that because narratively it works.

467
00:21:42.359 --> 00:21:42.960
Yes.

468
00:21:43.019 --> 00:21:45.359
And also the performance is so good.

469
00:21:45.420 --> 00:21:46.619
Oh, unbelievable, both of them.

470
00:21:46.680 --> 00:21:48.240
Yeah, both of them are so great.

471
00:21:48.299 --> 00:21:51.420
It's like they're having a really big fight and neither of them

472
00:21:51.420 --> 00:21:52.079
are doing anything.

473
00:21:52.140 --> 00:21:53.819
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

474
00:21:53.940 --> 00:21:57.059
Well, look, he looks up at one and he looks back down.

475
00:21:57.180 --> 00:22:02.220
Even he, as the evil cartoon villain, knows what he is doing is

476
00:22:02.220 --> 00:22:02.579
wrong.

477
00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:05.160
Yeah, he can't make eye contact with him.

478
00:22:05.220 --> 00:22:06.839
It is needlessly cruel.

479
00:22:06.900 --> 00:22:10.619
And like, again, I don't think it's head cannon as such.

480
00:22:10.680 --> 00:22:15.480
I think that this whole negotiation has gone to hell and it's not

481
00:22:15.480 --> 00:22:20.160
Frobish's fault, but Frobish is someone who's nearby.

482
00:22:20.220 --> 00:22:23.700
He was in the room when all that decision making was happening, but

483
00:22:23.700 --> 00:22:24.779
he wasn't at the table.

484
00:22:24.839 --> 00:22:28.140
And look, Nick Briggs already said he didn't have kids, otherwise

485
00:22:28.140 --> 00:22:28.859
he would have been the one.

486
00:22:28.980 --> 00:22:29.880
Yeah that's right.

487
00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:33.299
Oh my god. scene would have been awful.

488
00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:37.799
But it is also that that's kind of set up.

489
00:22:37.859 --> 00:22:39.779
You know, you're in the room, but you're not at the table.

490
00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:43.440
No one at this table is affected, but he sort of sat over there

491
00:22:43.440 --> 00:22:46.559
and I know that's super literal, but I do think that there's

492
00:22:46.559 --> 00:22:48.299
there's something about that.

493
00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:53.579
But this also comes like literally after the unit general guy

494
00:22:53.579 --> 00:22:56.519
talking to the 456 and saying, you know, what are the children

495
00:22:56.519 --> 00:22:56.940
for?

496
00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:01.619
Yeah, and it's, you know, they're hit, you know, for the drugs.

497
00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:05.400
And like, you're just there going, you're just stunned at that and

498
00:23:05.400 --> 00:23:06.539
then you're moving into this.

499
00:23:06.599 --> 00:23:07.619
Yeah.

500
00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:12.420
I remember that moment, the 1st time I watched it, that 1st Friday

501
00:23:12.420 --> 00:23:14.460
or Saturday it would have been here.

502
00:23:14.460 --> 00:23:17.940
And just going, oh, yeah.

503
00:23:17.940 --> 00:23:20.640
And then, yeah, like you say, this, this is the very next scene

504
00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:23.279
and you're like, I'm already down, Russell.

505
00:23:23.339 --> 00:23:24.299
Stop kicking me.

506
00:23:24.660 --> 00:23:28.500
We're already reeling from Yanto's death. exactly.

507
00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:32.220
Yeah, in fact, what's really great about that, I think, is partly

508
00:23:32.220 --> 00:23:36.599
that the 456 is using slang, like the hit.

509
00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:40.980
And it doesn't know Earth slang, because it had to learn off the

510
00:23:40.980 --> 00:23:42.599
record the other day, remember?

511
00:23:42.779 --> 00:23:47.519
But here the hit, the hit, and it's saying it in that crisp posh

512
00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:48.779
voice that it has.

513
00:23:48.839 --> 00:23:52.500
And then it explains it in these simplistic terms.

514
00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:56.160
I do think the dumbest line of the episode is, oh, we're dealing

515
00:23:56.160 --> 00:23:58.140
drugs and it's just like, what?

516
00:23:58.380 --> 00:24:00.839
Like, we're dealing drugs.

517
00:24:00.900 --> 00:24:02.819
Like now you're outraged.

518
00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:04.140
There's drugs involved.

519
00:24:04.200 --> 00:24:07.980
We're going to shovel 10s of 1000000s of children in the direction

520
00:24:07.980 --> 00:24:09.000
of 456.

521
00:24:09.119 --> 00:24:11.039
It looks fine when it might have been a paedophile.

522
00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:14.279
But now that it's a drug thing.

523
00:24:14.339 --> 00:24:16.019
That's much worse.

524
00:24:16.079 --> 00:24:19.619
But I still think, like, I still strongly think that that hit

525
00:24:19.619 --> 00:24:23.339
thing, like, it's impossible to kind of really properly

526
00:24:23.339 --> 00:24:27.059
conceptualise it in that way without thinking of it as paedophilia

527
00:24:27.059 --> 00:24:29.700
that they're violating the bodily autonomy of the kids.

528
00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:31.859
I've said this before, for the sake of pleasure.

529
00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:34.319
And before Colonel Le, do you ask that question?

530
00:24:34.380 --> 00:24:38.220
He says, do you need them to stay alive in a way, like that would

531
00:24:38.220 --> 00:24:42.900
be comprehensible, that they're subsisting on the children, even

532
00:24:42.900 --> 00:24:43.680
that they're eating them?

533
00:24:43.740 --> 00:24:44.700
You know what I mean?

534
00:24:44.759 --> 00:24:46.200
That they need them to stay alive.

535
00:24:46.259 --> 00:24:49.559
That's one thing, but that they're just doing it because it feels

536
00:24:49.559 --> 00:24:50.039
good.

537
00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:53.279
That's much, much more horrific.

538
00:24:53.339 --> 00:24:54.000
Yeah.

539
00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:58.619
It's almost like saying wear paedophiles without actually bringing

540
00:24:58.619 --> 00:24:59.819
any sexual into it.

541
00:24:59.940 --> 00:25:00.480
Yeah.

542
00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:04.079
It's kind of, and I'm guessing this would have been around the

543
00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:09.480
time that all of that talk about what had been going on during the

544
00:25:09.480 --> 00:25:13.019
70s and 80s was bubbling to the surface.

545
00:25:13.079 --> 00:25:16.680
So this is like the government going, we've been fine with this

546
00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:17.400
for a really long time.

547
00:25:17.460 --> 00:25:18.240
Yeah, yeah.

548
00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:21.119
Since the 60s, since the mid 60s.

549
00:25:21.240 --> 00:25:21.539
Yeah.

550
00:25:21.599 --> 00:25:23.640
So the subtext is wild.

551
00:25:23.700 --> 00:25:28.140
It's basically saying, yeah, you know, that guy who was on TV and

552
00:25:28.140 --> 00:25:30.240
the Queen used to hang out with and always was surrounded by

553
00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:30.660
children.

554
00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:32.519
He was a bad person.

555
00:25:32.579 --> 00:25:33.599
Yeah, yeah.

556
00:25:33.660 --> 00:25:37.200
Check out your 2 doctor's DVD special features.

557
00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:39.359
For more information.

558
00:25:48.660 --> 00:25:53.460
Don't we now sort of transition from that meeting to Phobisher

559
00:25:53.460 --> 00:25:55.380
going to Bridget to get the gun?

560
00:25:55.440 --> 00:25:56.160
Yeah.

561
00:25:56.220 --> 00:26:00.480
And then, I know Andy goes in complex Queen, but then it's

562
00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:04.500
literally into Bridget visiting Lois and having that whole talk

563
00:26:04.500 --> 00:26:08.279
about being a good man and cutting to what's happening at his

564
00:26:08.279 --> 00:26:12.599
house. is a very interesting framing sequence.

565
00:26:12.660 --> 00:26:16.380
I think that it's worth talking about the scene between him and

566
00:26:16.380 --> 00:26:17.220
Bridget.

567
00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:21.539
So it's the 2nd episode that Russell's written a mysterious

568
00:26:21.539 --> 00:26:21.960
thing.

569
00:26:22.019 --> 00:26:25.559
So it's the, what is it, the blank sheet in episode one.

570
00:26:25.619 --> 00:26:29.400
And here it's Requisition 31, which is a big gun for me to kill my

571
00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:30.180
family with.

572
00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:34.859
And what's great about it is that they don't say anything to each

573
00:26:34.859 --> 00:26:39.599
other and she knows, like when she talks about him later, There's

574
00:26:39.599 --> 00:26:42.720
no scene, and I don't know whether because there was one and it

575
00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:43.319
was can't.

576
00:26:43.380 --> 00:26:46.319
There's no scene where she receives the news that he's dead.

577
00:26:46.440 --> 00:26:48.599
So the way I...

578
00:26:48.599 --> 00:26:50.460
But she knows from getting requisition 31.

579
00:26:50.640 --> 00:26:51.299
That's right.

580
00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:52.980
She knows what he's going to do with it.

581
00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:54.240
She's known him a long time.

582
00:26:54.299 --> 00:26:55.619
She knows the kind of person here.

583
00:26:55.680 --> 00:26:56.759
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

584
00:26:56.819 --> 00:26:57.720
And I think that's really good.

585
00:26:57.779 --> 00:27:01.559
Like, I think, because we had that hint as well earlier on, maybe

586
00:27:01.559 --> 00:27:08.279
it's episode 2 that he and Bridget had an affair, because of

587
00:27:08.279 --> 00:27:12.480
Bridget's bad reaction to lower saying, pretending she's having an

588
00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:14.339
affair. pretending she's having a, yeah.

589
00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:14.759
Yeah.

590
00:27:14.819 --> 00:27:17.400
And it's not, you know, they don't overdo it.

591
00:27:17.460 --> 00:27:22.319
But when he just kisses her on the cheek and then leaves, that's

592
00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:23.759
how she knows, I think.

593
00:27:23.880 --> 00:27:25.200
I think that's really good.

594
00:27:25.259 --> 00:27:28.319
And I think we probably haven't talked enough about the woman who

595
00:27:28.319 --> 00:27:29.279
plays Bridget.

596
00:27:29.339 --> 00:27:30.660
She's so good.

597
00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:34.440
Well, I mean, she certainly has been in the background just giving

598
00:27:34.440 --> 00:27:38.700
looks a lot of the time and giving her password away.

599
00:27:38.759 --> 00:27:46.619
But here, this whole framing sequence with Lois and how she talks

600
00:27:46.619 --> 00:27:48.480
about John Fropisher being a good man.

601
00:27:48.539 --> 00:27:52.019
And I was listening to your episode 2 where the guys were saying

602
00:27:52.019 --> 00:27:56.460
like a good man in the context of his job, not necessarily a good

603
00:27:56.460 --> 00:28:00.900
man in the context of him outside of that.

604
00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:03.720
I thought it was an interesting take because I just thought, well

605
00:28:03.720 --> 00:28:05.160
I took it both ways.

606
00:28:05.220 --> 00:28:11.099
Like, you know, but just seeing all that, you know, unfold and you

607
00:28:11.099 --> 00:28:14.279
know what's going to happen and then walking up the stairs and

608
00:28:14.279 --> 00:28:19.980
she's still talking and then all those gunshots and at this point

609
00:28:19.980 --> 00:28:24.119
I'm just like, like, I'm just totally shocked and like, this is

610
00:28:24.119 --> 00:28:25.740
just dark stuff, you know?

611
00:28:25.799 --> 00:28:31.680
And 20 minutes and if he'd been 20 minutes later. then, well, it

612
00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:32.220
would have been fine.

613
00:28:32.279 --> 00:28:33.299
You know what I'm saying?

614
00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:33.839
Yeah, yeah.

615
00:28:33.900 --> 00:28:38.099
And ultimately, in terms of the sacrifice with this 456, you've

616
00:28:38.099 --> 00:28:42.299
got him and his family, you've got Jack's family, which is Yanto

617
00:28:42.299 --> 00:28:44.640
and his daughter and his nephew.

618
00:28:44.700 --> 00:28:48.900
You've got the poor people from the last episode who all got the

619
00:28:48.900 --> 00:28:49.920
poison gas, right?

620
00:28:49.980 --> 00:28:53.220
But they're all nameless besides our characters.

621
00:28:53.279 --> 00:28:55.200
There's not...

622
00:28:55.259 --> 00:28:56.339
But we see a lot of body bags.

623
00:28:56.400 --> 00:28:57.180
Yeah, yeah.

624
00:28:57.180 --> 00:28:59.099
Well, they show us a lot of body bag.

625
00:28:59.160 --> 00:28:59.700
That's true.

626
00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:02.460
But I'm just saying in terms of our characters on screen.

627
00:29:02.519 --> 00:29:03.240
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

628
00:29:03.299 --> 00:29:03.839
The ones we know.

629
00:29:03.900 --> 00:29:07.140
Like around the world, like this is supposed to be a worldwide

630
00:29:07.140 --> 00:29:07.500
event.

631
00:29:07.559 --> 00:29:10.740
It's actually very ultimately contained.

632
00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:11.640
Yeah, yeah.

633
00:29:11.700 --> 00:29:14.339
I mean, that's always Doctor Who. like...

634
00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:17.400
It's like, we can't afford to shoot outside. everyone in this

635
00:29:17.400 --> 00:29:17.579
room.

636
00:29:17.640 --> 00:29:19.799
But the impact on that one family.

637
00:29:19.859 --> 00:29:26.339
Yeah. it's awful I can't see how that quite works at logistically

638
00:29:26.339 --> 00:29:26.880
again.

639
00:29:26.940 --> 00:29:31.859
And I think that the way that I'm reading it is we don't get any

640
00:29:31.859 --> 00:29:37.559
audio from the house except for the gunshots because I can't see

641
00:29:37.559 --> 00:29:39.599
what can possibly be going on in that room.

642
00:29:39.839 --> 00:29:43.200
Also, you don't want to, and you don't want to think about it.

643
00:29:43.259 --> 00:29:44.519
You don't want to hear them screaming.

644
00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:48.839
You don't, like, it's bad enough, but there's no way, you know, of

645
00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:51.720
avoiding, like I was trying to picture what's happening in the

646
00:29:51.720 --> 00:29:51.960
room.

647
00:29:52.019 --> 00:29:56.279
And you are invited to picture it because there are the 3 gunshots

648
00:29:56.279 --> 00:30:00.180
which presumably kill the girls and his wife, and then there's a

649
00:30:00.180 --> 00:30:05.400
pause while he has to look at what he's done and then he kills

650
00:30:05.400 --> 00:30:05.880
himself.

651
00:30:05.940 --> 00:30:09.240
And that's really, like, there's no other way of reading that, I

652
00:30:09.240 --> 00:30:11.039
think, and that's really, really quite brutal.

653
00:30:11.099 --> 00:30:15.059
I mean, it's a very hitchcocking thing to shut the door on the

654
00:30:15.059 --> 00:30:19.019
horror that, you know, something bad is about to happen and we're

655
00:30:19.019 --> 00:30:19.680
closing the door.

656
00:30:19.740 --> 00:30:20.579
Yeah, yeah.

657
00:30:20.579 --> 00:30:24.779
And you have to think about it as opposed to showing it, which on

658
00:30:24.779 --> 00:30:28.319
one level is horrific because you're thinking about it.

659
00:30:28.380 --> 00:30:32.880
But on another level is, I think that to shoot that scene would

660
00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:35.460
have been so outrageous.

661
00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:36.960
Oh yeah, you couldn't do it.

662
00:30:37.019 --> 00:30:37.680
No, no.

663
00:30:37.740 --> 00:30:41.279
But the other thing, like, I did a crime writing class once and

664
00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:47.160
the instructor who's a much published Australian author said, you

665
00:30:47.160 --> 00:30:49.380
can never kill the dog and you can never kill the kid.

666
00:30:49.440 --> 00:30:50.160
Yeah.

667
00:30:50.160 --> 00:30:53.279
Otherwise, your readers will never forgive you.

668
00:30:53.339 --> 00:30:57.480
And that is, like, they kill more than one kid in this.

669
00:30:57.539 --> 00:30:58.559
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

670
00:30:58.619 --> 00:31:00.720
I mean, I know Russell was about to walk out the door.

671
00:31:01.500 --> 00:31:05.700
But he still had, you know, the children's show going.

672
00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:07.259
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

673
00:31:07.319 --> 00:31:09.779
He still was, you know, making kids run up and downstairs and away

674
00:31:09.779 --> 00:31:12.059
from monsters in Sarah Jane adventures.

675
00:31:12.119 --> 00:31:18.000
So it's such a really gruesome and it's a very risky thing to do

676
00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:23.460
with your entire franchise, essentially. to kill a bunch of kids

677
00:31:23.460 --> 00:31:25.500
on screen.

678
00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:28.140
And we don't get to see the 2 girls.

679
00:31:28.200 --> 00:31:30.240
No, but we do get to see Stephen.

680
00:31:30.299 --> 00:31:31.319
Yeah.

681
00:31:31.380 --> 00:31:32.039
Yes.

682
00:31:32.039 --> 00:31:32.880
At the end.

683
00:31:32.940 --> 00:31:35.039
That is also horrific.

684
00:31:35.099 --> 00:31:38.220
But as you're saying, it's like absolutely brutal at this point.

685
00:31:38.279 --> 00:31:43.980
And we haven't got to the children being taken away from the

686
00:31:43.980 --> 00:31:44.759
school.

687
00:31:44.819 --> 00:31:48.779
We haven't got to Gwen on the council estate, you know, trying to

688
00:31:48.779 --> 00:31:49.680
rescue all those kids.

689
00:31:49.740 --> 00:31:55.440
So all of this, you're taking all of this emotion and dread into

690
00:31:55.440 --> 00:31:56.940
what is going to happen next.

691
00:31:57.000 --> 00:31:58.559
Like, will they actually escape?

692
00:31:58.799 --> 00:32:01.920
Yeah It's amazing doing it that early.

693
00:32:01.980 --> 00:32:04.380
It is incredible doing it that early in the episode.

694
00:32:04.440 --> 00:32:07.920
Well, I think the other thing is because it's torchwood and not

695
00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:11.579
Doctor Who, and we have seen them fail more than once.

696
00:32:11.640 --> 00:32:13.680
We seen them get to the end of the episode and it's like, we

697
00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:14.279
didn't solve anything.

698
00:32:14.400 --> 00:32:17.039
Everyone died and the alien went away.

699
00:32:17.099 --> 00:32:19.559
Or everyone had weird explosive sex.

700
00:32:21.119 --> 00:32:24.720
So, you know, we've seen the death of the cyberwoman.

701
00:32:24.779 --> 00:32:27.960
We've seen all of the things happen where Torchwood don't

702
00:32:27.960 --> 00:32:28.380
succeed.

703
00:32:28.440 --> 00:32:32.819
And I very much felt when I 1st watched this.

704
00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:34.980
I was like, this is gonna end badly.

705
00:32:35.099 --> 00:32:38.759
Yeah, but this is not like, no one's saving the day.

706
00:32:38.819 --> 00:32:40.859
Captain Jackie's going to fuck up again.

707
00:32:40.920 --> 00:32:42.720
He sold the kids the 1st time.

708
00:32:42.779 --> 00:32:46.799
Is he going to just let this happen and the world is ruined.

709
00:32:46.859 --> 00:32:47.579
Yeah, yeah.

710
00:32:47.640 --> 00:32:50.519
I think, though, because we start with a mention of the doctor

711
00:32:50.519 --> 00:32:56.039
that does place this in the same Doctor Who timeline.

712
00:32:56.099 --> 00:33:00.539
And so we're not going to have the doctor turn up this Christmas

713
00:33:00.539 --> 00:33:04.440
to a world where 10% of the world's children have been taken away

714
00:33:04.440 --> 00:33:09.660
while he was naming a galaxy Alison. you know, like I just think

715
00:33:09.660 --> 00:33:11.519
that that that wasn't possible.

716
00:33:11.579 --> 00:33:14.640
So I do think that it is going to resolve itself.

717
00:33:14.700 --> 00:33:20.160
But of course, the only way that it can resolve itself is in a bad

718
00:33:20.160 --> 00:33:24.059
way, for precisely the reason because what we had, and we talked

719
00:33:24.059 --> 00:33:28.380
about the trolly problem the other week, what we had was this idea

720
00:33:28.380 --> 00:33:34.200
that you sacrifice a small number of people in order to ensure the

721
00:33:34.200 --> 00:33:36.960
safety of a large number of people.

722
00:33:37.019 --> 00:33:39.059
And in 1965.

723
00:33:39.299 --> 00:33:43.200
It was 12 children to save 25000000 people from the Indonesian

724
00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:43.799
flu.

725
00:33:43.859 --> 00:33:49.559
Here, it's one child to save 6700000000 people.

726
00:33:49.619 --> 00:33:53.339
But Jack makes the same decision in each case.

727
00:33:53.400 --> 00:33:57.299
He sacrifices a small number of people to save a big number of

728
00:33:57.299 --> 00:33:57.599
people.

729
00:33:57.660 --> 00:34:01.740
Now, in the parent show, you would never do that, something would

730
00:34:01.740 --> 00:34:04.740
turn up, the doctor would reject that and say, no, I'm going

731
00:34:04.740 --> 00:34:06.180
to...

732
00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:06.900
Yeah, yeah.

733
00:34:06.960 --> 00:34:12.840
In fact, you actually have Yanto in episode 4 saying to Jack that

734
00:34:12.840 --> 00:34:16.679
he should do that, the Jack He knows would stand up and not

735
00:34:16.679 --> 00:34:21.000
tolerate that sacrifice, but Jack didn't do that.

736
00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:23.340
And now Yanto's gone.

737
00:34:23.400 --> 00:34:25.980
There's no one there to say you should stand up.

738
00:34:26.039 --> 00:34:28.619
And you know what would have happened if it was a Doctor Who?

739
00:34:28.679 --> 00:34:31.920
Is the doctor would have channelled that thing through him and

740
00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:33.659
been like, I can be a child.

741
00:34:33.659 --> 00:34:35.400
Yeah. like every generation or whatever.

742
00:34:35.460 --> 00:34:38.039
And then someone would have pushed him out of the way and died.

743
00:34:38.099 --> 00:34:39.480
Yeah, yeah.

744
00:34:39.539 --> 00:34:41.460
Self sacrifice.

745
00:34:41.519 --> 00:34:42.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

746
00:34:42.480 --> 00:34:42.900
Yeah.

747
00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:46.980
Or someone, like, like, um, the annoying American Tech Bro would

748
00:34:46.980 --> 00:34:51.179
quickly... and do it instead of the doctor doing it.

749
00:34:51.239 --> 00:34:54.179
Can I say, I am annoyed that that is it Decker?

750
00:34:54.239 --> 00:34:54.840
Who's the old guy?

751
00:34:54.900 --> 00:34:55.739
Yeah, yeah, Decker.

752
00:34:55.739 --> 00:34:57.420
I am annoyed that he survived last episode.

753
00:34:57.480 --> 00:34:58.019
I mentioned it.

754
00:34:58.079 --> 00:35:01.139
I thought that he would not survive in his little suit.

755
00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:05.699
And I think we said in the last episode or I thought that the

756
00:35:05.699 --> 00:35:08.280
reason that he's there at all, because we do need him in this

757
00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:09.179
final episode, I think.

758
00:35:09.239 --> 00:35:12.599
Yes, to understand because he's been working on it since.

759
00:35:12.659 --> 00:35:16.559
That's right And he is the one that then points Jack to

760
00:35:16.559 --> 00:35:18.599
sacrificing the key.

761
00:35:18.659 --> 00:35:19.860
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

762
00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:21.960
So we need that not to be Jack's idea.

763
00:35:22.019 --> 00:35:23.820
We need there to be dialogue about it too.

764
00:35:23.880 --> 00:35:29.099
Like, if Jack comes up with the idea, he doesn't want to do it.

765
00:35:29.159 --> 00:35:30.239
Do you know what I mean?

766
00:35:30.300 --> 00:35:31.139
And he won't mention it.

767
00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:33.960
But because Deck is there, he mentions it.

768
00:35:34.019 --> 00:35:35.760
So why is that out loud?

769
00:35:35.820 --> 00:35:37.079
Yeah, everyone's right.

770
00:35:37.139 --> 00:35:39.179
And Bitchface, whatever her name is.

771
00:35:39.239 --> 00:35:43.199
Johnson is not going to do it because she's already said she's

772
00:35:43.199 --> 00:35:46.260
already, they've already tried to humanise her with saying that

773
00:35:46.260 --> 00:35:46.860
he's going to be okay.

774
00:35:46.920 --> 00:35:51.420
But I actually think what's interesting is that even though

775
00:35:51.420 --> 00:35:56.280
they've humanised her, she still thinks that the sacrifice of one

776
00:35:56.280 --> 00:35:56.880
child is fine.

777
00:35:56.940 --> 00:36:02.579
I got the impression in the last episode in this that her kind of

778
00:36:02.579 --> 00:36:07.440
starting to come on board is because they never say it, but she

779
00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:08.159
has kids.

780
00:36:08.219 --> 00:36:09.239
Oh, maybe.

781
00:36:09.239 --> 00:36:14.219
Like, it's A, the reason it's a woman is so that we can have, like

782
00:36:14.219 --> 00:36:17.880
there can be a maternal side to her after all of the brutality

783
00:36:17.880 --> 00:36:19.139
she's enacted on everyone.

784
00:36:19.199 --> 00:36:22.320
And there's just that moment of when she's saying, oh, it'll be

785
00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:25.079
all the kids from the street corners and you're like, you've got

786
00:36:25.079 --> 00:36:25.380
kids.

787
00:36:25.500 --> 00:36:27.659
Yeah, she's got kids at home.

788
00:36:27.719 --> 00:36:30.900
Because, I mean, the other thing about her is that she's kind of

789
00:36:30.900 --> 00:36:34.860
really murderous in the 1st few episodes, but even she isn't on

790
00:36:34.860 --> 00:36:37.679
board and she thinks this is horrifying.

791
00:36:37.739 --> 00:36:41.519
The thing, you know, she's making the same decision essentially

792
00:36:41.519 --> 00:36:46.320
that Lois makes, which is to betray, you know, a commitment that

793
00:36:46.320 --> 00:36:48.539
she's made to protect the state.

794
00:36:48.599 --> 00:36:54.300
But then I do think that she is kind of on board with the

795
00:36:54.300 --> 00:36:55.559
sacrifice of Steve.

796
00:36:55.619 --> 00:36:56.159
Oh, yeah.

797
00:36:56.159 --> 00:37:03.239
Because in a way, like, part of the problem is, I think, and part

798
00:37:03.239 --> 00:37:07.380
of the reason that the relationship between Alice and Jack breaks

799
00:37:07.380 --> 00:37:10.679
down completely and you can't have a scene where they talk to one

800
00:37:10.679 --> 00:37:16.380
another at the end is that it was the right thing to do to kill

801
00:37:16.380 --> 00:37:17.099
Stephen.

802
00:37:17.159 --> 00:37:18.900
If it's a choice.

803
00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:20.099
Do you know what I mean?

804
00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:23.280
The way the Doctor Who would do it, it would be someone volunteers

805
00:37:23.280 --> 00:37:23.820
to do it.

806
00:37:23.880 --> 00:37:26.159
You know, someone volunteers.

807
00:37:26.460 --> 00:37:29.579
But here we've got a child who can't consent to that because they

808
00:37:29.579 --> 00:37:30.599
can't understand it.

809
00:37:30.659 --> 00:37:31.920
It has to be a child.

810
00:37:32.039 --> 00:37:35.760
And it's the same thing.

811
00:37:36.300 --> 00:37:40.079
Do you know the story, the ones who walk away from omelas?

812
00:37:40.139 --> 00:37:41.219
Oh my god, it's the best.

813
00:37:41.280 --> 00:37:42.480
Ursula Kayla Guine.

814
00:37:42.539 --> 00:37:43.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

815
00:37:43.260 --> 00:37:47.639
So this is a story where there's an entire happy fantasy world, a

816
00:37:47.639 --> 00:37:50.820
science fiction world that you're invited to imagine.

817
00:37:50.820 --> 00:37:57.300
And then you're invited to imagine one single child in a prison

818
00:37:57.300 --> 00:38:02.099
cell who is being mistreated, who's being immiserated, who is

819
00:38:02.099 --> 00:38:09.059
starved and mistreated and unloved, and we're made to understand

820
00:38:09.059 --> 00:38:14.820
that the reason that that child's treated in that way, is that it

821
00:38:14.820 --> 00:38:18.000
actually ensures the good fortune and happiness of everyone else

822
00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:18.420
in the world.

823
00:38:18.539 --> 00:38:19.619
Okay.

824
00:38:19.619 --> 00:38:26.099
And they do it in, um, they do that in, in a Star Trek, in

825
00:38:26.099 --> 00:38:26.880
straight true worlds.

826
00:38:26.940 --> 00:38:28.800
Lift us where suffering cannot reach.

827
00:38:28.860 --> 00:38:34.199
The little boy who has to be sacrificed in order to ensure that

828
00:38:34.199 --> 00:38:35.820
his planet is prosperous.

829
00:38:35.880 --> 00:38:39.480
And it's called the ones who walk away from Omelas, the story

830
00:38:39.480 --> 00:38:44.099
because there are people who learn of this and then kind of go

831
00:38:44.099 --> 00:38:47.219
well, now I'm going to go on with my lie.

832
00:38:47.280 --> 00:38:48.780
It's like the space whale.

833
00:38:49.500 --> 00:38:52.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah. where they go, I'm going to choose to forget

834
00:38:52.199 --> 00:38:52.739
that that happened.

835
00:38:52.800 --> 00:38:55.199
Yes, that's right. and live with it.

836
00:38:55.260 --> 00:38:58.739
Or the people who walk away, the people who say I can't be part of

837
00:38:58.739 --> 00:38:59.039
this world.

838
00:38:59.099 --> 00:39:03.300
And the fact of the of the matter is, the reason that that hears

839
00:39:03.300 --> 00:39:08.219
is, of course, because the ease and prosperity that we have been

840
00:39:08.219 --> 00:39:15.480
enjoying ourselves in this wealthy country is predicated on the

841
00:39:15.480 --> 00:39:17.880
poverty and emiseration of other people in the world.

842
00:39:17.940 --> 00:39:22.440
I read it as because it was in the 70s.

843
00:39:22.500 --> 00:39:27.780
And I so I listened to this great podcast once about a girl who

844
00:39:27.780 --> 00:39:33.000
grew up in South Africa and she described it as, because she's a

845
00:39:33.000 --> 00:39:36.000
white girl, that it was a utopia.

846
00:39:36.059 --> 00:39:38.940
You never saw anything on the news about what was really going on

847
00:39:38.940 --> 00:39:40.139
with apartheid.

848
00:39:40.199 --> 00:39:42.000
You never knew that that was happening.

849
00:39:42.059 --> 00:39:45.239
Like you just lived in this glorious place where everything was

850
00:39:45.239 --> 00:39:45.719
amazing.

851
00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:49.679
And yet there's an entire race of people being treated

852
00:39:49.679 --> 00:39:53.880
horrifically just over there. that you can't quite see because the

853
00:39:53.880 --> 00:39:54.840
news doesn't cover it.

854
00:39:54.900 --> 00:39:58.380
But I think it works on, you know, like on so many levels.

855
00:39:58.500 --> 00:39:58.860
Yeah.

856
00:39:58.920 --> 00:40:01.860
Have you ever read, there's a, there was an award-winning story

857
00:40:01.860 --> 00:40:04.320
last year, which was a response by Isabel J.

858
00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:07.320
Kim called, They keep killing the kid in the omelus hall?

859
00:40:07.739 --> 00:40:09.960
No, I have heard of it.

860
00:40:10.019 --> 00:40:15.900
It's really funny And so in some sense, we're outraged by that

861
00:40:15.900 --> 00:40:21.000
murder, and that murder is made worse because it's a kid that he

862
00:40:21.000 --> 00:40:25.199
knows it's his own grandson that he's doing this to.

863
00:40:25.260 --> 00:40:27.960
And of course, he needs to be punished as well.

864
00:40:28.019 --> 00:40:30.599
Just the way that Frobisher needed to be punished.

865
00:40:30.659 --> 00:40:33.599
Jack needs to be punished for what he did to the kids in 1965.

866
00:40:33.840 --> 00:40:36.000
And so he's made to do it again.

867
00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:38.760
And he's made to do it again to his own kid.

868
00:40:38.820 --> 00:40:40.860
It's interesting that they kill off Clem.

869
00:40:40.980 --> 00:40:45.000
And that's one character, had he survived, that previous episode

870
00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:50.639
could have been the one person to actually make self sacrifice or

871
00:40:50.639 --> 00:40:52.800
save it's my time because of everything I've gone through.

872
00:40:52.860 --> 00:40:58.079
Like he was a conduit and and but that's why the 456 kill him

873
00:40:58.079 --> 00:41:03.900
because they recognise that he is a vulnerability of theirs.

874
00:41:03.960 --> 00:41:07.619
Like, I think, I don't know how clearly that stated in the

875
00:41:07.619 --> 00:41:08.940
dialogue and maybe that's just me.

876
00:41:09.059 --> 00:41:12.000
But I thought that that was the thing, that the reason they kill

877
00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:13.139
him because they do ask.

878
00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:15.360
Yeah, because that's like that's how they work it out.

879
00:41:15.420 --> 00:41:16.739
They're like, why did they kill him?

880
00:41:16.800 --> 00:41:18.119
How did they kill him?

881
00:41:18.179 --> 00:41:21.480
And it's like, oh, they killed him because he was a

882
00:41:21.480 --> 00:41:22.199
vulnerability.

883
00:41:22.260 --> 00:41:27.599
And he was an outlier and we can use that against them.

884
00:41:27.719 --> 00:41:31.079
And I do think there's a stroke of genius in getting all of the

885
00:41:31.079 --> 00:41:32.219
kids to scream.

886
00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:36.059
Like, it's not just Stephen doing the thing and bleeding from the

887
00:41:36.059 --> 00:41:39.300
head and all of that sort of horrible stuff, which is really

888
00:41:39.300 --> 00:41:43.139
prolonged at which they make Alice Watch.

889
00:41:43.260 --> 00:41:45.420
Yeah, and it's that shaking thing too.

890
00:41:45.539 --> 00:41:49.980
Yeah, yeah. that they've just learned to do. everybody seems to do

891
00:41:49.980 --> 00:41:51.239
like at that time.

892
00:41:51.300 --> 00:41:52.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

893
00:41:52.079 --> 00:41:55.980
Isn't it like when the master is changing like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

894
00:41:56.039 --> 00:41:56.400
That's right.

895
00:41:56.519 --> 00:41:57.119
That's right.

896
00:41:57.179 --> 00:41:58.320
They do use it in the end of time.

897
00:41:58.440 --> 00:41:59.400
Yeah, yeah.

898
00:41:59.699 --> 00:42:02.940
So she she has to watch it.

899
00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:04.440
Like she's forced to watch it.

900
00:42:04.500 --> 00:42:09.000
Jack is forced to watch it. it's really vivid and really brutal

901
00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:11.099
and really kind of explicit.

902
00:42:11.460 --> 00:42:13.980
Are we watching at the same time?

903
00:42:14.039 --> 00:42:17.099
Gwen and Reese and everybody trying to get away from the troops

904
00:42:17.099 --> 00:42:18.059
with the small children.

905
00:42:18.179 --> 00:42:19.079
Yeah, yeah.

906
00:42:19.139 --> 00:42:20.760
And I think that's actually really well shot.

907
00:42:20.820 --> 00:42:22.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

908
00:42:22.500 --> 00:42:26.460
And also, the fact that they go into what looks like an abattoir.

909
00:42:26.519 --> 00:42:28.260
I was about to say.

910
00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:29.340
Yeah, yeah.

911
00:42:29.400 --> 00:42:34.019
It is, it is really, I don't know whether that was a Euroslyn

912
00:42:34.019 --> 00:42:38.400
thing or it was the production, uh, location manager, but it's

913
00:42:38.400 --> 00:42:40.199
just like, ooh, yeah.

914
00:42:40.199 --> 00:42:42.000
A little on the nose, but it's kind of perfect.

915
00:42:42.059 --> 00:42:45.179
I think the incredible thing is that little girl who gets left

916
00:42:45.179 --> 00:42:49.019
behind and then is caught by the troops and is screaming and

917
00:42:49.019 --> 00:42:49.260
stuff.

918
00:42:49.320 --> 00:42:51.780
Like all of that stuff is so incredibly great.

919
00:42:51.840 --> 00:42:56.699
I think also there's a big highlight is Andy taking his police

920
00:42:56.699 --> 00:42:59.280
uniform off and going in and attacking the troops.

921
00:42:59.340 --> 00:43:00.900
I don't want to be part of this system.

922
00:43:00.960 --> 00:43:03.719
Yeah, yeah, it's not just, like, he doesn't go in with his police

923
00:43:03.719 --> 00:43:04.800
thing on.

924
00:43:04.860 --> 00:43:06.300
He rejects the whole police thing.

925
00:43:06.360 --> 00:43:10.980
I think I don't know what happens in Torchwood later on, but I

926
00:43:10.980 --> 00:43:13.559
would like to think that he stops being a policeman at that point

927
00:43:13.559 --> 00:43:14.219
altogether.

928
00:43:14.280 --> 00:43:16.679
I mean, in the audios, he's around forever.

929
00:43:16.739 --> 00:43:17.880
Yeah, of course he is.

930
00:43:17.940 --> 00:43:20.340
It's funny because I kind of thought, well, you know, at the end

931
00:43:20.340 --> 00:43:23.159
of this, only person left in torture it is Gwen, but she's going

932
00:43:23.159 --> 00:43:28.199
but she's going to get Andy and Reese and Johnson and Lois and

933
00:43:28.199 --> 00:43:29.639
they're going to be the new Torchwood team.

934
00:43:29.699 --> 00:43:31.440
Like, you know, in my head cannon.

935
00:43:31.500 --> 00:43:37.440
We said in an earlier episode that Lois is in prison locked up at

936
00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:40.619
the end of this, but she's not because she's going to be released

937
00:43:40.619 --> 00:43:41.940
by Denise.

938
00:43:41.940 --> 00:43:44.699
She's going to be released by Denise.

939
00:43:44.940 --> 00:43:48.480
That's another thing that really distinguishes this from Doctor

940
00:43:48.480 --> 00:43:52.260
Who because in Doctor Who, when anyone is locked up, they spend

941
00:43:52.260 --> 00:43:53.400
the rest of the time trying to get out.

942
00:43:53.460 --> 00:43:54.480
Yeah, yeah.

943
00:43:54.539 --> 00:43:56.400
But here people are locked up and they're locked up.

944
00:43:56.460 --> 00:43:56.880
Yeah.

945
00:44:02.940 --> 00:44:04.920
But before we get to that.

946
00:44:04.980 --> 00:44:07.139
It's the end of the 456.

947
00:44:07.559 --> 00:44:09.960
All that bugged.

948
00:44:10.079 --> 00:44:11.159
Oh, good.

949
00:44:11.880 --> 00:44:13.619
Oh my god, it's so gross.

950
00:44:13.679 --> 00:44:15.360
It's super satisfying though.

951
00:44:15.420 --> 00:44:18.900
I mean, I think if they just beamed out of there, that would have

952
00:44:18.900 --> 00:44:22.320
been nowhere near as fun because we want them punished.

953
00:44:22.380 --> 00:44:24.119
And it is that usual thing.

954
00:44:24.179 --> 00:44:27.960
It's the Santarin experiment thing, which we do again in Horror of

955
00:44:27.960 --> 00:44:30.960
Fang Rock, where you just kill one of the aliens and the rest of

956
00:44:30.960 --> 00:44:34.500
them go, actually, let's, we'll go. pee off.

957
00:44:34.619 --> 00:44:35.639
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

958
00:44:35.699 --> 00:44:39.000
But having it explode, and particularly after it's been sort of

959
00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:41.699
spraying diarrhoea on the walls of a thing for a bunch of

960
00:44:41.699 --> 00:44:42.239
episodes.

961
00:44:42.300 --> 00:44:44.639
Like, it's super gross.

962
00:44:44.699 --> 00:44:48.239
It's super visceral, but it is a bit of a punch the M moment.

963
00:44:48.300 --> 00:44:48.900
It is pretty great.

964
00:44:48.960 --> 00:44:52.920
But also, and no one says this, but they have just killed another

965
00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:53.219
child.

966
00:44:53.280 --> 00:44:54.840
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

967
00:44:54.900 --> 00:44:56.460
There is a child in there.

968
00:44:56.519 --> 00:44:57.599
Yes of course.

969
00:44:57.659 --> 00:44:58.619
1965.

970
00:44:58.860 --> 00:45:03.119
And that is part of that giant explosion of blood and it's like, oh

971
00:45:03.119 --> 00:45:03.420
wow.

972
00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:06.840
They're killing kids all over the place in this episode.

973
00:45:06.900 --> 00:45:09.119
This is the 1st time that's occurred.

974
00:45:09.420 --> 00:45:11.460
It was a puppet child.

975
00:45:11.519 --> 00:45:14.219
It was a puppet baby with a mask on, but yeah.

976
00:45:14.280 --> 00:45:18.119
But I like to think that when that happens to the 456 in that cell

977
00:45:18.119 --> 00:45:20.579
it's also happening up in the spaceship too. they're getting

978
00:45:20.579 --> 00:45:24.000
affected too, which is why they then decide time to get out of

979
00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:24.119
here.

980
00:45:24.179 --> 00:45:28.260
Or they're just like, oh, they've worked out how to hurt us.

981
00:45:28.320 --> 00:45:31.199
So we, there's no way we can go back now.

982
00:45:31.260 --> 00:45:36.960
I really love the bit at the end where, I mean, obviously, Alice's

983
00:45:36.960 --> 00:45:39.659
reaction is really tragic, all of that sort of stuff, but the

984
00:45:39.659 --> 00:45:45.719
triumph that Gwen and Reese get to experience and little Misha

985
00:45:45.719 --> 00:45:49.320
when Gwen calls her a clever girl, what did you do, you clever

986
00:45:49.320 --> 00:45:49.679
girl?

987
00:45:49.739 --> 00:45:51.420
I just think that's so adorable.

988
00:45:51.480 --> 00:45:55.079
Because Misha is the best child in the show.

989
00:45:55.079 --> 00:45:58.320
And she is so into the screaming.

990
00:45:58.380 --> 00:46:01.440
Like she just opens her mouth so big and wide.

991
00:46:01.500 --> 00:46:04.380
She's doing exactly what our Ross is telling her to do.

992
00:46:04.440 --> 00:46:08.039
She's got that little, you know, frown on her face and stuff.

993
00:46:08.099 --> 00:46:09.659
I just think she's tremendous.

994
00:46:09.719 --> 00:46:10.440
She's the best one.

995
00:46:10.500 --> 00:46:12.780
You've got to track her down for a podcast.

996
00:46:12.840 --> 00:46:13.980
I do.

997
00:46:13.980 --> 00:46:16.440
What's she doing now?

998
00:46:16.500 --> 00:46:18.179
I do question this.

999
00:46:18.239 --> 00:46:19.440
The trip suddenly stop.

1000
00:46:19.500 --> 00:46:21.480
And it sort of like, was an order given?

1001
00:46:21.539 --> 00:46:25.559
Like, that's, I mean, that's, again, it's Russell.

1002
00:46:25.619 --> 00:46:28.380
That's Russell's little plot holes that he doesn't like to deal

1003
00:46:28.380 --> 00:46:28.559
with.

1004
00:46:28.619 --> 00:46:31.920
But I mean, I think if they can mobilise them in a moment, they

1005
00:46:31.920 --> 00:46:32.820
can stop the minimum.

1006
00:46:32.880 --> 00:46:34.079
We don't need to see that.

1007
00:46:34.440 --> 00:46:39.900
Because once you've dealt with a 456 and then dealing with what we

1008
00:46:39.900 --> 00:46:43.440
need to see dealt with next is, of course, the Prime Minister.

1009
00:46:43.500 --> 00:46:45.599
And what a what a scene that is.

1010
00:46:45.659 --> 00:46:46.260
Oh, yeah.

1011
00:46:46.320 --> 00:46:49.559
Because like I didn't put 2 and 2 together when I 1st watched it

1012
00:46:49.559 --> 00:46:51.599
that she had the contact lenses.

1013
00:46:51.659 --> 00:46:52.019
No.

1014
00:46:52.019 --> 00:46:54.360
She is to, now that you watch it.

1015
00:46:54.420 --> 00:46:57.179
She's kind of staring like this the whole time.

1016
00:46:57.239 --> 00:47:01.440
And of course, she is suspicious of Lois as well.

1017
00:47:01.500 --> 00:47:04.079
Because she's clocked at Lois is always trying to look at

1018
00:47:04.079 --> 00:47:04.679
someone's mouth.

1019
00:47:04.739 --> 00:47:05.940
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1020
00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:08.340
So in that thing on floor 13.

1021
00:47:08.519 --> 00:47:12.059
She's constantly tracking Lois and shooting daggers at Lois.

1022
00:47:12.119 --> 00:47:15.900
So there's something very moffity, isn't there about the

1023
00:47:15.900 --> 00:47:22.440
reinterpretation of that visit where it actually looks like she's

1024
00:47:22.440 --> 00:47:27.119
gone to visit Lois in order to give a speech that can be intercunt

1025
00:47:27.119 --> 00:47:29.400
with the death of the Frobisher family.

1026
00:47:29.460 --> 00:47:30.780
It's saying look what you've done.

1027
00:47:30.900 --> 00:47:37.260
But instead, she's actually gone to Lois and got the instructions

1028
00:47:37.260 --> 00:47:38.579
on how to use the contact lenses.

1029
00:47:38.639 --> 00:47:40.019
Do you ever watch Matlock?

1030
00:47:40.079 --> 00:47:41.099
They do that in every episode.

1031
00:47:41.159 --> 00:47:42.719
Or a poker face.

1032
00:47:42.780 --> 00:47:43.260
Yes.

1033
00:47:43.320 --> 00:47:46.079
There's a bit of information that you're missing that you don't

1034
00:47:46.079 --> 00:47:46.380
see.

1035
00:47:46.440 --> 00:47:48.840
Yeah, you certainly see part of that. they show you at the end of

1036
00:47:48.840 --> 00:47:49.139
the episode.

1037
00:47:49.199 --> 00:47:50.400
It's like, oh, that.

1038
00:47:50.460 --> 00:47:51.179
Oh, that happened.

1039
00:47:51.239 --> 00:47:51.900
I miss that.

1040
00:47:51.960 --> 00:47:54.420
But it's a very Moffat thing to do, isn't it?

1041
00:47:54.480 --> 00:47:56.340
To reinterpret something that you've already seen.

1042
00:47:56.400 --> 00:47:58.139
And that's a great scene.

1043
00:47:58.199 --> 00:48:01.980
I do think it's slightly undercut by the fact that we had a

1044
00:48:01.980 --> 00:48:04.920
similar threat in episode four.

1045
00:48:05.039 --> 00:48:10.739
And what the Prime Minister says here, which is just, oh, you know

1046
00:48:10.739 --> 00:48:13.980
we're lucky the Americans were here and they can take the fall. is

1047
00:48:13.980 --> 00:48:17.880
nowhere near as bad as, say, what Denise said in the previous

1048
00:48:17.880 --> 00:48:20.159
episode when she was being recorded.

1049
00:48:20.219 --> 00:48:25.980
So I don't think that works quite as well, but he is so great at

1050
00:48:25.980 --> 00:48:27.360
being defeated.

1051
00:48:27.480 --> 00:48:28.679
Isn't he that actor?

1052
00:48:28.739 --> 00:48:29.340
tremendous.

1053
00:48:29.400 --> 00:48:32.340
Oh, yeah, and the fact that Denise is there ready to, you know

1054
00:48:32.340 --> 00:48:33.059
take control.

1055
00:48:33.119 --> 00:48:34.139
Yeah, yeah.

1056
00:48:34.199 --> 00:48:35.639
Awful, horrible Denise.

1057
00:48:35.639 --> 00:48:39.900
With the school league tables is now going to be in charge.

1058
00:48:39.960 --> 00:48:40.679
I know.

1059
00:48:40.739 --> 00:48:46.260
And like, yeah, that league table's speech is one of those really

1060
00:48:46.260 --> 00:48:49.380
chilling moments, previous episodes, where she's like, well, what

1061
00:48:49.380 --> 00:48:49.800
are they for?

1062
00:48:49.860 --> 00:48:51.599
Yeah, it's so great.

1063
00:48:51.659 --> 00:48:54.000
But it's all leading to this moment.

1064
00:48:54.059 --> 00:48:55.079
Denise's destiny.

1065
00:48:55.139 --> 00:48:55.619
Yeah.

1066
00:48:55.679 --> 00:48:57.960
No, it literally...

1067
00:48:58.019 --> 00:48:59.940
And so there's no happy ending.

1068
00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:02.280
Institutionally, no one learns anything.

1069
00:49:02.340 --> 00:49:08.159
We are still under the government that was prepared to do this to

1070
00:49:08.159 --> 00:49:09.239
the children.

1071
00:49:09.300 --> 00:49:12.840
And will continue to do it in a less kind of, you know

1072
00:49:12.840 --> 00:49:13.920
metaphorical way.

1073
00:49:13.980 --> 00:49:17.340
I mean, it's, you know, it's obviously conservative government.

1074
00:49:17.400 --> 00:49:18.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1075
00:49:18.539 --> 00:49:19.860
No, but I mean, I think it is.

1076
00:49:19.860 --> 00:49:21.780
They've continued to do exactly what they've always done.

1077
00:49:21.840 --> 00:49:22.860
Yeah, yeah.

1078
00:49:22.920 --> 00:49:24.659
Shove kids up chimneys.

1079
00:49:24.719 --> 00:49:25.559
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1080
00:49:26.760 --> 00:49:30.239
You know, at this point, you know, what what is the happy ending

1081
00:49:30.239 --> 00:49:30.900
to this episode?

1082
00:49:31.019 --> 00:49:33.480
Yeah, we defeated the four or five, six, but look at the price

1083
00:49:33.480 --> 00:49:37.800
that individuals have paid and people have paid.

1084
00:49:37.860 --> 00:49:40.679
And the only, I mean, Lois is going to get out of jail.

1085
00:49:40.739 --> 00:49:41.280
Yeah.

1086
00:49:41.280 --> 00:49:47.760
Gwen Reese, Jack, all the kids on the estate, they survive, but

1087
00:49:47.760 --> 00:49:48.420
how happy is it?

1088
00:49:48.539 --> 00:49:50.219
It a bit of sweet sort of ending, isn't it?

1089
00:49:50.280 --> 00:49:55.260
I mean, at least you get the payoff of one little happy ending

1090
00:49:55.260 --> 00:49:57.179
which is Gwen is heavily pregnant at the end.

1091
00:49:57.239 --> 00:49:57.840
Yeah.

1092
00:49:57.840 --> 00:50:01.320
After having kind of implied to Reese that she might not go

1093
00:50:01.320 --> 00:50:01.800
through with it.

1094
00:50:01.920 --> 00:50:03.239
And I, you know what?

1095
00:50:03.300 --> 00:50:05.940
really hated that about this episode. didn't think that she needed

1096
00:50:05.940 --> 00:50:07.079
to imply that at all.

1097
00:50:07.139 --> 00:50:08.880
I just didn't like it.

1098
00:50:08.880 --> 00:50:11.219
And then she says, 0 no, I would never do that.

1099
00:50:11.280 --> 00:50:14.579
And, you know, there's dramatic reasons for it, but I just kind of

1100
00:50:14.579 --> 00:50:17.579
thought, did we need that on top of everything else?

1101
00:50:17.639 --> 00:50:21.900
I think it was just like, it was a really, you know, we're seeing

1102
00:50:21.900 --> 00:50:23.159
what the world is like.

1103
00:50:23.219 --> 00:50:27.840
Like she's now looked under the hood of government and seen just

1104
00:50:27.840 --> 00:50:28.980
how gruesome it is.

1105
00:50:29.039 --> 00:50:31.320
Like, she thought the things coming to earth were bad.

1106
00:50:31.380 --> 00:50:31.980
Yeah.

1107
00:50:31.980 --> 00:50:35.880
And now she's seen that what is in charge of the earth is also

1108
00:50:35.880 --> 00:50:40.739
horrible and it is, I mean, it is a thing that women go through a

1109
00:50:40.739 --> 00:50:44.400
lot when they're, when they're pregnant is like, do I want to

1110
00:50:44.400 --> 00:50:47.699
raise someone in this world and you're allowed to change your mind

1111
00:50:47.699 --> 00:50:48.539
on those kind of things?

1112
00:50:48.539 --> 00:50:53.219
And I, yeah, I, it was a cruel thing to do to Reese. in that

1113
00:50:53.219 --> 00:50:53.460
moment.

1114
00:50:53.519 --> 00:50:54.239
I agree.

1115
00:50:54.300 --> 00:50:58.920
But also it's just like a comment on everything that's happened in

1116
00:50:58.920 --> 00:50:59.639
the show up to then.

1117
00:50:59.699 --> 00:51:00.659
I get it.

1118
00:51:00.719 --> 00:51:02.760
I just think the dialogue could have been done in a slightly

1119
00:51:02.760 --> 00:51:03.239
different way.

1120
00:51:03.300 --> 00:51:05.099
Like, I just thought it was a bit blunt.

1121
00:51:05.159 --> 00:51:08.280
And it was really expedient because it's like, oh, we're just in a

1122
00:51:08.280 --> 00:51:10.920
car and we've got to get to this place and what can I fill this

1123
00:51:10.920 --> 00:51:12.360
time with conversation?

1124
00:51:12.420 --> 00:51:14.039
It's like, oh, more bleak shit.

1125
00:51:14.099 --> 00:51:15.179
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1126
00:51:15.239 --> 00:51:18.059
But I mean, I genuinely think that that's the reason that she's

1127
00:51:18.059 --> 00:51:18.420
pregnant.

1128
00:51:18.420 --> 00:51:23.579
In this story is because that then gives her a stake in the state

1129
00:51:23.579 --> 00:51:25.800
of the future that she doesn't have.

1130
00:51:25.860 --> 00:51:30.360
And so I think, again, we are almost always going to head to that

1131
00:51:30.360 --> 00:51:31.860
scene where she said that.

1132
00:51:31.920 --> 00:51:36.659
What annoys me is it's part of a long tradition of women

1133
00:51:36.659 --> 00:51:40.139
contemplating having abortions on television only to decide that

1134
00:51:40.139 --> 00:51:40.980
they're not going to.

1135
00:51:41.039 --> 00:51:43.320
And like I'm glad that she doesn't.

1136
00:51:43.380 --> 00:51:46.380
I'm glad we see her pregnant at the end and she does get to have a

1137
00:51:46.380 --> 00:51:47.699
baby and a machine gun.

1138
00:51:47.699 --> 00:51:54.239
I think in episode one of Torchwood Miracle Day, which is pretty

1139
00:51:54.239 --> 00:51:57.900
awesome, not the season, but when with a child.

1140
00:51:58.679 --> 00:51:59.579
I would agree with that.

1141
00:52:00.239 --> 00:52:04.019
But, like, it just sort of slightly irritates me a bit.

1142
00:52:04.079 --> 00:52:06.900
I'm always a little bit relieved that occasionally on television

1143
00:52:06.900 --> 00:52:10.320
these days you do actually see someone making a conceded decision

1144
00:52:10.320 --> 00:52:13.199
to have an abortion and then they go through with it and they're

1145
00:52:13.199 --> 00:52:14.039
not punished for it.

1146
00:52:14.099 --> 00:52:16.619
I think it's a little bit...

1147
00:52:16.619 --> 00:52:18.300
I feel like it's, I don't know.

1148
00:52:18.360 --> 00:52:24.000
It felt like a moment where if the show hadn't resolved the 456

1149
00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:28.079
and they had taken all those 1000000s of children with them as

1150
00:52:28.079 --> 00:52:32.519
drugs, that she would have actually gone through with terminating

1151
00:52:32.519 --> 00:52:34.440
because you would have gone, this world is no good.

1152
00:52:34.500 --> 00:52:35.820
And as well.

1153
00:52:35.880 --> 00:52:38.820
I mean, the thing is with the 456 is they come back.

1154
00:52:38.880 --> 00:52:43.139
Like, the problem with this, one of the big problems with this is

1155
00:52:43.139 --> 00:52:49.619
it's not exchanging 10s of 1000000s of children for 1000000000s of

1156
00:52:49.619 --> 00:52:53.820
people's safety because that didn't work last time either.

1157
00:52:53.880 --> 00:52:54.659
They came back.

1158
00:52:54.719 --> 00:52:55.559
They're extorting.

1159
00:52:55.619 --> 00:52:56.400
Yeah, that's right.

1160
00:52:56.460 --> 00:52:58.500
And Gwen says that, doesn't she?

1161
00:52:58.559 --> 00:53:00.000
She says, you know, you should have known.

1162
00:53:00.059 --> 00:53:02.159
It's a protection It's a protection racket.

1163
00:53:02.219 --> 00:53:03.480
That's precisely what she says.

1164
00:53:03.539 --> 00:53:04.739
And so they'll be back.

1165
00:53:04.800 --> 00:53:05.880
They have to be defeated.

1166
00:53:05.940 --> 00:53:11.820
We don't have compliance, isn't really a proper, a proper

1167
00:53:11.820 --> 00:53:13.860
alternative, a proper solution to the problem.

1168
00:53:13.920 --> 00:53:18.960
You know, if we live in a world where the 456 come back for more

1169
00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:23.159
kids every few years, then absolutely, that's not the world that

1170
00:53:23.159 --> 00:53:24.719
you want to bring a child into at all.

1171
00:53:28.800 --> 00:53:32.579
And then at the end we get that, you know, that wonderful ending

1172
00:53:32.579 --> 00:53:37.800
with Jack teleporting up into the atmosphere like a Doctor Who

1173
00:53:37.800 --> 00:53:40.739
Christmas episode where the TARDIS go zap up into the atmosphere

1174
00:53:40.739 --> 00:53:41.820
like it never does.

1175
00:53:41.880 --> 00:53:43.739
Do you know what I'm saying?

1176
00:53:43.800 --> 00:53:47.039
Like it only happens at Christmas and said, yeah, it's very run

1177
00:53:47.039 --> 00:53:47.400
away.

1178
00:53:47.460 --> 00:53:51.539
When does he appear next in, is it just Miracle Day?

1179
00:53:51.599 --> 00:53:52.739
It's not in Doctor Who, is it?

1180
00:53:52.800 --> 00:53:56.280
Yeah, yeah, he's in the at the end of time where he goes to the.

1181
00:53:56.340 --> 00:53:59.460
Oh, so he's gone to meet Alonso.

1182
00:53:59.519 --> 00:54:00.480
Russell Toby.

1183
00:54:00.539 --> 00:54:00.840
Yeah.

1184
00:54:00.900 --> 00:54:01.500
Yeah, yeah.

1185
00:54:01.559 --> 00:54:05.219
It was a little unsatisfying for me, like the end of Greece.

1186
00:54:06.360 --> 00:54:08.940
Why are you not flying in the car?

1187
00:54:10.380 --> 00:54:12.539
That's awesome.

1188
00:54:12.599 --> 00:54:13.320
Shut up.

1189
00:54:13.380 --> 00:54:15.420
No, I agree with you.

1190
00:54:15.480 --> 00:54:16.980
What is that?

1191
00:54:17.039 --> 00:54:17.760
Why is that?

1192
00:54:17.820 --> 00:54:19.079
Why is why is that?

1193
00:54:19.139 --> 00:54:20.519
Why does he fly off into the sky?

1194
00:54:20.579 --> 00:54:24.239
Also, it feels like he's getting, you know, he's all sad and

1195
00:54:24.239 --> 00:54:27.179
mournful, but then shoots up in the sky.

1196
00:54:27.239 --> 00:54:28.860
It's like, well, that looks like a happy ending.

1197
00:54:28.980 --> 00:54:31.679
I actually dislike that ending enormously.

1198
00:54:31.739 --> 00:54:35.219
And I think it's because we've seen Gwen crying quite a lot this

1199
00:54:35.219 --> 00:54:35.820
episode.

1200
00:54:35.880 --> 00:54:40.139
And having her cry that horrible Jack is going away.

1201
00:54:40.199 --> 00:54:42.480
Like, it's just too much.

1202
00:54:42.539 --> 00:54:46.320
That whole scene is just too overwrought and too overplayed.

1203
00:54:46.320 --> 00:54:49.800
And you've got Reese undercutting it a little bit.

1204
00:54:49.860 --> 00:54:55.800
And even just having her continually turning around as they go off

1205
00:54:55.800 --> 00:54:59.099
together, as her and Reese go off together, she keeps turning

1206
00:54:59.099 --> 00:55:03.179
around and looking in the sky after Jack, as if she's kind of

1207
00:55:03.179 --> 00:55:07.440
still, like, she can't just settle into now I have my husband and

1208
00:55:07.440 --> 00:55:09.119
a child and I'm okay.

1209
00:55:09.179 --> 00:55:11.820
He goes back to all the crap back in season.

1210
00:55:11.940 --> 00:55:12.900
Yeah exactly.

1211
00:55:12.960 --> 00:55:14.460
I thought we'd put behind us.

1212
00:55:14.519 --> 00:55:14.940
You know?

1213
00:55:15.059 --> 00:55:16.440
Jack is not the man for her.

1214
00:55:16.559 --> 00:55:18.539
This is Reese. you know she loves him.

1215
00:55:18.599 --> 00:55:19.440
We don't need that.

1216
00:55:19.500 --> 00:55:23.340
Like, she could have given stuff, let him go. and not be as

1217
00:55:23.340 --> 00:55:24.300
distressed, you know?

1218
00:55:24.360 --> 00:55:28.260
And, you know, this is my guy and really pointing that out.

1219
00:55:28.320 --> 00:55:31.320
Yeah, and but it's also, this is like Russell thing.

1220
00:55:31.380 --> 00:55:35.820
It's like Jack is his Doctor Who, you know, for this show.

1221
00:55:35.940 --> 00:55:40.559
And so the companion for one of a better term for whatever Gwen's

1222
00:55:40.559 --> 00:55:43.860
role is, is to be constantly pining after the doctor.

1223
00:55:43.920 --> 00:55:48.539
And it's just that's the Russell's mode with how things work.

1224
00:55:48.599 --> 00:55:51.360
It's the assistant is always obsessed.

1225
00:55:51.360 --> 00:55:53.460
Yeah, and it would.

1226
00:55:53.519 --> 00:55:56.579
Yeah, it would have been much better, I think, for her to have

1227
00:55:56.579 --> 00:55:58.619
been kind of happy to see him go.

1228
00:55:58.679 --> 00:55:59.280
Yeah.

1229
00:55:59.280 --> 00:56:02.760
Like, or fit her to be philosophical about.

1230
00:56:02.880 --> 00:56:05.880
I mean, he's been responsible for the death of pretty much

1231
00:56:05.880 --> 00:56:08.039
everyone she met at Torchwood.

1232
00:56:08.099 --> 00:56:08.880
He literally says that.

1233
00:56:09.539 --> 00:56:12.539
And she still wants to know if he's okay.

1234
00:56:12.659 --> 00:56:13.739
Yeah, yeah.

1235
00:56:13.800 --> 00:56:14.340
Yeah.

1236
00:56:14.400 --> 00:56:15.659
Yeah.

1237
00:56:15.719 --> 00:56:16.139
Yeah.

1238
00:56:16.199 --> 00:56:18.900
So I think that is a little bit unsatisfying.

1239
00:56:18.960 --> 00:56:24.360
Also, like, I feel like he doesn't even get away, you know, he

1240
00:56:24.360 --> 00:56:26.639
doesn't even get punished for Ianto dying.

1241
00:56:26.699 --> 00:56:30.840
And it's up to Gwen and Andy to go and deliver the news to the

1242
00:56:30.840 --> 00:56:31.079
system.

1243
00:56:31.139 --> 00:56:32.219
Yeah, yeah.

1244
00:56:32.280 --> 00:56:33.239
Oh wow.

1245
00:56:33.300 --> 00:56:37.019
That is also really heartbreaking when she goes, oh, he was a

1246
00:56:37.019 --> 00:56:37.500
master tailor.

1247
00:56:37.559 --> 00:56:38.880
It's like, no, he worked at Debonance.

1248
00:56:38.940 --> 00:56:40.199
He didn't know anything about him.

1249
00:56:40.260 --> 00:56:41.940
Yeah, no, that was a great moment.

1250
00:56:42.000 --> 00:56:45.119
It's really, really good because the master tailor thing.

1251
00:56:45.179 --> 00:56:48.780
I think I've said that before, is such cheesy, ludicrous TV

1252
00:56:48.780 --> 00:56:50.340
writers backstory.

1253
00:56:50.400 --> 00:56:54.000
And so instead we discovered that actually there's a real thing

1254
00:56:54.000 --> 00:56:58.679
and he's a loser who broke Yanto's arm that one time, remember?

1255
00:56:58.739 --> 00:57:00.360
Or his leg.

1256
00:57:00.420 --> 00:57:01.139
I can't remember.

1257
00:57:01.199 --> 00:57:05.639
But there is something about him that he's actually a lot less

1258
00:57:05.639 --> 00:57:06.179
impressive.

1259
00:57:06.239 --> 00:57:10.079
I mean, that seems great just because the woman who plays Rhiannon

1260
00:57:10.079 --> 00:57:11.280
is so incredibly good.

1261
00:57:11.400 --> 00:57:12.480
Teddy Ricks is so good.

1262
00:57:12.599 --> 00:57:13.500
Yeah, I love her.

1263
00:57:13.559 --> 00:57:14.219
Just fantastic.

1264
00:57:14.280 --> 00:57:17.880
But I mean, that is the case with this season is that every one of

1265
00:57:17.880 --> 00:57:20.579
those actors playing any of the sport roles.

1266
00:57:20.639 --> 00:57:23.579
All of them are just so impressive.

1267
00:57:23.579 --> 00:57:27.300
And of course, even the guys with the big rubber stick that are

1268
00:57:27.300 --> 00:57:29.159
banging it on the window to make the spew happen.

1269
00:57:29.219 --> 00:57:30.960
They're good too.

1270
00:57:31.019 --> 00:57:36.360
But at that mean, it's totally anchored by 8 miles. and Peter

1271
00:57:36.360 --> 00:57:38.940
Capaldi and what's the name, Lois?

1272
00:57:39.000 --> 00:57:40.440
Oh, Chris Jumbo.

1273
00:57:40.500 --> 00:57:43.079
Like, it's totally anchored by all of them.

1274
00:57:43.139 --> 00:57:46.679
The saddest thing about this episode is that Kush Jumbo is in a

1275
00:57:46.679 --> 00:57:47.820
prison cell for most of it.

1276
00:57:47.880 --> 00:57:50.159
And even does some good eye acting through the porthole.

1277
00:57:50.219 --> 00:57:51.059
Yeah.

1278
00:57:51.059 --> 00:57:53.880
But it's not anchored by Barrowman.

1279
00:57:53.940 --> 00:57:55.079
No, he's terrible.

1280
00:57:55.139 --> 00:58:00.179
And that's my biggest takeaway rewatching this is how adequate he

1281
00:58:00.179 --> 00:58:00.420
is.

1282
00:58:00.480 --> 00:58:02.159
He's adequate.

1283
00:58:02.219 --> 00:58:03.719
But he's not impressive.

1284
00:58:03.780 --> 00:58:08.219
Imagine like Paldi doing the scene where he has to sacrifice his

1285
00:58:08.219 --> 00:58:08.880
own grandchild.

1286
00:58:08.940 --> 00:58:15.059
Like Capaldi going home with Property 31 is just like you see the

1287
00:58:15.059 --> 00:58:15.659
weight.

1288
00:58:15.719 --> 00:58:17.579
You see the horror.

1289
00:58:17.639 --> 00:58:22.260
You see the planning and it's just, this is the worst day of his

1290
00:58:22.260 --> 00:58:22.559
life.

1291
00:58:22.679 --> 00:58:27.300
Whereas Barriman's like, I've got a bit of a hangnail.

1292
00:58:27.599 --> 00:58:29.639
He does tear up.

1293
00:58:29.699 --> 00:58:31.679
He does tear up. stoic.

1294
00:58:31.739 --> 00:58:34.739
But, you know, if you pull out your hangnails. pleasant.

1295
00:59:01.800 --> 00:59:04.980
Well, that's all the time we have for this week and for this

1296
00:59:04.980 --> 00:59:05.340
season.

1297
00:59:05.400 --> 00:59:08.880
We'll be back later in the year to consider Terry Nation's

1298
00:59:08.880 --> 00:59:13.500
contribution to our favourite television program in 500 year diary

1299
00:59:13.500 --> 00:59:16.079
season 5, Turanium Core.

1300
00:59:16.139 --> 00:59:19.679
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

1301
00:59:19.679 --> 00:59:23.639
and you can keep up with us on our website, 500yearDiary.com, where

1302
00:59:23.639 --> 00:59:26.400
you'll find our social media links as well as links to all of our

1303
00:59:26.400 --> 00:59:30.719
other podcasts, including the entirety of flights or entirety

1304
00:59:30.719 --> 00:59:35.280
which comprises every episode of our 4 Doctor Who podcasts.

1305
00:59:35.340 --> 00:59:39.599
Until next time, remember that if you lead a wicked life during

1306
00:59:39.599 --> 00:59:43.320
your time on Earth, you'll be forced to atone for your sins by

1307
00:59:43.320 --> 00:59:45.480
going on a date with Russell Tovey.

1308
00:59:45.539 --> 00:59:47.519
So be warned.

1309
00:59:47.579 --> 00:59:49.860
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1310
00:59:50.219 --> 00:59:52.440
See you soon.

1311
01:00:04.500 --> 01:00:08.460
That was 500 year diary, starring Todd Bealby, Nathan Bottomley

1312
01:00:08.460 --> 01:00:09.659
and Adam Richard.

1313
01:00:09.719 --> 01:00:11.699
The theme was composed by Cameron Lamb.

1314
01:00:11.760 --> 01:00:15.659
This episode, What the World Is Like, was recorded on the 28th of

1315
01:00:15.659 --> 01:00:18.659
March 2026, and released on the 12th of April.

1316
01:00:19.019 --> 01:00:23.579
Thank you all for joining us for season 4 of 500-year diary and

1317
01:00:23.579 --> 01:00:26.639
particular thanks to those people who joined us on the sofa of

1318
01:00:26.639 --> 01:00:27.539
reasonable comfort.

1319
01:00:27.599 --> 01:00:31.920
Melvin Peña, Johnny Spandral, Kevin Bernard, Fiona Tomney, and

1320
01:00:31.920 --> 01:00:32.880
Adam Richard.

1321
01:00:32.940 --> 01:00:34.500
We'll see you in season five.

1322
01:00:49.559 --> 01:00:53.340
But again, back to you saying about Peter Capelli is just seeing

1323
01:00:53.340 --> 01:00:58.500
him in this role, but having now seen him in 3 years of Drop 2. how

1324
01:00:58.500 --> 01:00:59.579
impressive he is.

1325
01:00:59.639 --> 01:01:02.639
Yet again, you know, in something that's completely different to

1326
01:01:02.639 --> 01:01:03.420
the doctor.

1327
01:01:03.480 --> 01:01:06.239
Have you watched the show with him and Kush Jumbo?

1328
01:01:06.300 --> 01:01:08.460
I think it's called criminal record.

1329
01:01:08.519 --> 01:01:09.000
Record?

1330
01:01:09.000 --> 01:01:10.619
They're both so great.

1331
01:01:10.679 --> 01:01:12.719
It is like they're circling each other.

1332
01:01:12.780 --> 01:01:14.039
It's on Netflix.

1333
01:01:14.099 --> 01:01:15.659
Oh, Apple TV.

1334
01:01:15.719 --> 01:01:16.260
Apple TV?

1335
01:01:16.380 --> 01:01:16.679
right.

1336
01:01:16.739 --> 01:01:19.860
It's like 8 episodes or something or 6 it's not very long and it's

1337
01:01:19.860 --> 01:01:20.400
police.

1338
01:01:20.460 --> 01:01:21.539
It's a police.

1339
01:01:22.079 --> 01:01:24.599
Yeah, detective, all kind of thing, but there's a thing in the

1340
01:01:24.599 --> 01:01:28.019
past that Capaldi's character is done and you're never really sure

1341
01:01:28.019 --> 01:01:31.079
and there might be some racism and it's all...

1342
01:01:31.139 --> 01:01:35.280
Yeah, it's, but you just like, he's so great.

1343
01:01:35.340 --> 01:01:41.639
Like, he's this kind of proud character who's a bit downtrodden

1344
01:01:41.639 --> 01:01:44.340
who's trying to do the right thing, but is also messed up a lot

1345
01:01:44.340 --> 01:01:48.300
and he's so good at having all of that going on.

1346
01:01:48.360 --> 01:01:51.420
Whereas Barriman's like, I'm wearing a coat.

1347
01:01:52.199 --> 01:01:53.880
Yeah, yeah.

1348
01:01:53.940 --> 01:01:55.320
That's it.

1349
01:01:55.320 --> 01:01:57.300
And probably a wig.

1350
01:01:57.360 --> 01:01:59.820
Oh yeah, that hair is too much.

1351
01:02:03.719 --> 01:02:07.440
But you know who I'd love to see back on Telly, and that's Eve

1352
01:02:07.440 --> 01:02:07.980
Miles.

1353
01:02:08.039 --> 01:02:10.260
Oh, yeah, she's in the moment.

1354
01:02:10.320 --> 01:02:14.219
It's on Stan with David Morris, the episode.

1355
01:02:14.280 --> 01:02:14.699
Wow.

1356
01:02:14.699 --> 01:02:14.940
Wow.

1357
01:02:15.000 --> 01:02:15.300
Yeah.

1358
01:02:15.360 --> 01:02:17.280
She's alarmingly blonde in it.

1359
01:02:17.340 --> 01:02:21.239
Alarmingly blonde and apparently he's a really complex character.

1360
01:02:21.300 --> 01:02:22.800
I've not seen it but I really want to.

1361
01:02:22.860 --> 01:02:27.119
And she was great in that, um, was it the 2nd season of

1362
01:02:27.119 --> 01:02:27.780
Broadchurch?

1363
01:02:27.840 --> 01:02:31.019
Like the only good thing in that 2nd season of Broadchurch.

1364
01:02:31.739 --> 01:02:34.199
Oh, God, I don't even think I got to it.

1365
01:02:34.260 --> 01:02:38.639
They gave they did give Olivia Coleman a lot of...

1366
01:02:38.699 --> 01:02:42.480
It's just like, how can we resolve this mystery?

1367
01:02:42.539 --> 01:02:46.679
in a way that gives Olivia Coleman the most opportunities to do

1368
01:02:46.679 --> 01:02:47.340
acting.

1369
01:02:47.400 --> 01:02:48.539
Oh, she's so great.

1370
01:02:48.599 --> 01:02:49.440
She's so good.

1371
01:02:49.500 --> 01:02:50.639
That's such a terrible show.

1372
01:02:50.699 --> 01:02:55.139
It's awful But it's well cast again.

1373
01:02:55.199 --> 01:03:01.139
But here, you know, this is by far the best season of Torchwood.

1374
01:03:01.199 --> 01:03:01.739
Yeah.

1375
01:03:01.739 --> 01:03:02.639
Oh, yeah.

1376
01:03:02.699 --> 01:03:03.480
It's a proper thing.

1377
01:03:03.539 --> 01:03:07.139
And like, I think it's like, I think it's like a season 7 Doctor

1378
01:03:07.139 --> 01:03:07.860
Who as well.

1379
01:03:07.920 --> 01:03:10.980
You know, one of the things about Doctor Who being like 45 minute

1380
01:03:10.980 --> 01:03:14.039
adventures is that you never get to spend time with the regular

1381
01:03:14.039 --> 01:03:14.400
cast.

1382
01:03:14.460 --> 01:03:16.079
Now we've got this massive regular cast.

1383
01:03:16.139 --> 01:03:16.920
We know all of them.

1384
01:03:16.980 --> 01:03:19.079
They're all interesting to watch.

1385
01:03:19.199 --> 01:03:20.400
They can each anchor a scene.

1386
01:03:20.460 --> 01:03:23.519
We have whole scenes with just Alice, you know, and she's

1387
01:03:23.519 --> 01:03:24.239
tremendous.

1388
01:03:24.300 --> 01:03:27.539
And you never get to do that in Doctor Who.

1389
01:03:27.599 --> 01:03:30.599
So it just felt like it felt like a throwback.

1390
01:03:30.659 --> 01:03:31.980
It felt like the pertu era.

1391
01:03:32.039 --> 01:03:34.980
Yeah, it felt like old school Doctor Who, when you have six half

1392
01:03:34.980 --> 01:03:37.920
hour episodes and you got to know these people.

1393
01:03:37.980 --> 01:03:39.539
Sure, none of them made it to the final episode.

1394
01:03:40.500 --> 01:03:43.139
Horrifying rocks too, on my face.

1395
01:03:43.199 --> 01:03:44.940
Everyone died.

1396
01:03:45.059 --> 01:03:46.079
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1397
01:03:46.079 --> 01:03:47.400
Hated Adelaide, but you know.

1398
01:03:47.400 --> 01:03:49.679
But yeah, yeah.

1399
01:03:49.739 --> 01:03:53.159
Like, I think that's, like, and so I think that's why that's so

1400
01:03:53.159 --> 01:03:53.400
good.

1401
01:03:53.460 --> 01:03:57.780
And I think the next year, like, um, uh, Miracle Day has an

1402
01:03:57.780 --> 01:04:00.719
incredible strong hawk, like a great hook.

1403
01:04:00.780 --> 01:04:01.739
And some great actors.

1404
01:04:01.860 --> 01:04:02.820
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1405
01:04:02.880 --> 01:04:04.800
And they kill off all the great females.

1406
01:04:04.920 --> 01:04:07.139
Never be a doctor in torture.

1407
01:04:07.199 --> 01:04:08.099
Just say that.

1408
01:04:08.159 --> 01:04:09.360
The 3rd doctor.

1409
01:04:09.420 --> 01:04:10.800
Yeah, Vera.

1410
01:04:10.860 --> 01:04:12.539
In that incredible.

1411
01:04:12.599 --> 01:04:13.500
That's an incredible.

1412
01:04:13.559 --> 01:04:16.920
There are incredible moments in the next season, but it goes to

1413
01:04:16.920 --> 01:04:18.239
Helena.

1414
01:04:18.300 --> 01:04:22.019
I think I think, again, it's the same, the advantage that this has

1415
01:04:22.019 --> 01:04:26.940
over Miracle Day and over war between, I think, is that it's 5

1416
01:04:26.940 --> 01:04:28.019
episodes over 5 days.

1417
01:04:28.079 --> 01:04:32.639
And so it has that incredible propulsiveness, but just that

1418
01:04:32.639 --> 01:04:34.619
Aristotelian unity.

1419
01:04:34.679 --> 01:04:37.199
Like it's all about a particular week.

1420
01:04:37.260 --> 01:04:40.619
Like a very bad week that everyone's having.

1421
01:04:40.679 --> 01:04:42.780
Yeah, you don't have those gaps in time.

1422
01:04:42.840 --> 01:04:43.619
No.

1423
01:04:43.619 --> 01:04:45.840
But also too, it's not American.

1424
01:04:45.900 --> 01:04:46.500
No offence.

1425
01:04:46.559 --> 01:04:49.199
But I think that does affect.

1426
01:04:49.260 --> 01:04:50.579
Miracle Day.

1427
01:04:50.639 --> 01:04:52.800
I mean, we love American genre TV.

1428
01:04:52.860 --> 01:04:55.019
And we were watching a stack of it at the time.

1429
01:04:55.079 --> 01:04:59.699
And, you know, it meant that we had John DeLancey and our visitor

1430
01:04:59.699 --> 01:05:04.920
and Jane Spenson writing episodes and stuff, which was, you know

1431
01:05:04.920 --> 01:05:07.320
she writes maybe the best episode, I think.

1432
01:05:07.380 --> 01:05:09.239
And so all of that stuff's kind of good.

1433
01:05:09.300 --> 01:05:10.980
It was too many.

1434
01:05:11.039 --> 01:05:12.300
It was trying to do too long.

1435
01:05:12.360 --> 01:05:18.119
Yeah, it was it was before we hit this weird thing where they were

1436
01:05:18.119 --> 01:05:20.820
like, oh, maybe we don't need to do 13 episodes of everything.

1437
01:05:20.880 --> 01:05:22.139
We don't need to do 10 episodes.

1438
01:05:22.320 --> 01:05:24.420
It's meant to be six.

1439
01:05:24.539 --> 01:05:25.199
That's fine.

1440
01:05:25.380 --> 01:05:29.639
Yeah, but 10 wasn't enough for the kids in space.

1441
01:05:29.699 --> 01:05:30.420
No.

1442
01:05:30.539 --> 01:05:34.440
Yeah, Starfleet 902 when I was, people been calling it.

1443
01:05:34.500 --> 01:05:36.300
I'm still sad about that.

1444
01:05:36.360 --> 01:05:36.780
Yeah.