WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 09:18:04

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to 500 year diary.

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The only Doctor Who podcast that's just thought of an excellent way you can get out of buying Christmas presents for your nieces and nephews this year.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Adam.

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And I'm Todd.

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It's Friday, the 10th of July, 2009.

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It's been just over 23 hours since the government decided to hand over the horrid people's children to this season's rubbery alien menace.

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And tonight, again, about 6000000 people have tuned in to watch our heroes heroically saving the day.

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Let's see how they manage that as we discuss torchwood, children of earth, day five.

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So, we start this week with Prime Minister Green, giving us a solemn message about what to do with our children.

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Do we?

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Pretty much.

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Doesn't Gwen have some sort of...

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Oh, yeah, she talks into sequence?

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I want to forget that.

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I actually...

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I actually really dislike that.

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But it's a Russell thing, where he throws something in at the beginning of an episode, whether it's Doctor Who or whatever, as a bit of a misdirect, and you see something then happened 3 quarters of the way through.

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Yeah.

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So it's a little bit like the beginning of Army of Ghosts, where you get Rose on the Pass saying this is the story of how I died.

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And then of course, she didn't die.

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This one, I think, is really, really kind of overwrought.

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Yeah.

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Also, it's that thing whenever he does a non-doctor thing, it's like, I've got to mention the doctor and how amazing he is.

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It's like, no I've watched that show.

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Yeah, yeah.

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It's poochie.

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He'll wander into anything.

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And like people behave badly in front of him all the time.

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I know.

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Yeah, it's trying to ask the question, why is the doctor not here?

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Yes.

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And the answer to that question is...

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He's busy.

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He's, no, he's playing Hamlet.

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Oh yeah.

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The actress, you mean.

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But like one of the things that I really like about Planet of the Dead is that it is a season opener for a season that never ends up happening.

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And the doctor decides at the end of Planet of the Dead, which is light and fun and like a season opening romp by Russell.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And that's the time when we have the season open as well.

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And then the doctor at the end says, no, I'm not going to have a season.

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Like he actually says, I'm not going to do it because, you know, Donna, because of all of the stuff that's been going on.

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And so we don't have a season.

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And so there's a kind of in universe reason why there's no 2009 season.

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I don't think we need it.

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I think it's overwrought and we get to see it again.

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Yeah, I hate when you see things twice. like and they don't resolve in a different way.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Like, it's like, if you saw this at the start and you go, ooh, this is exciting.

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And then you get to it and it's like, yeah, she's, we saw that.

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She's just recording it from a different angle.

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Like, I want the reveal to be like the rose thing.

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It's like, 0 no, she doesn't die.

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Like it's actually, it's a different kind of death.

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It's like the death of her emotionally and the end of her life in that universe.

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Whereas this is just, yeah, Gwen's just, she actually did say, oh, that shit.

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Yeah, and we're just seeing it from a certain perspective for a moment so that we can mention the doctor.

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The doctor right off the bat.

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Because it's the finale and it's Friday.

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Yeah.

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I think so.

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I mean, I think it is unfortunate.

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I do think it's overwrought.

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I don't think it looks very good.

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And when they do it later, you get the advantage of, like I think...

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Oh, she's holding the keys.

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She holding that little key.

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Yeah.

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Reese, Reese, like it just drops a tear for a moment.

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Like, it's actually quite a good scene.

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And I do think that that plot, which we'll get to, with her rescuing the kids joining forces with Johnny and Rhiannon to rescue the kids is great. absolute highlight of the episode, I think.

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Yeah, it just feels weird at the start.

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Also, I don't know if it's because this was made at the beginning of HDTV because Euroslin is framing everything like it's still in 43 and it was a giant head and I've got it ridiculously large television.

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So many times in this episode, things are shown on a cassode ray television with like all the lines and the bits and they're so blown up that it's like, you're hurting my eyes.

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I don't need to see a news reader any closer than they actually are on television.

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I don't want to see up Trinity Wells nostrils.

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Can I shout out for a second?

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Because that is in this montage at the beginning?

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which is kind of getting us to where we are, that the BBC newsreader, Louise Minchin, I think, absolutely is so good.

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She just properly sells it and sounds exactly, well, like herself.

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I mean, there's the most surprising reason why she sounds like a BBC.

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Also that thing where BBC news readers are like...

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I'm meant to sound unbiassed, but I have kind of an opinion.

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But do you think it's like, if somebody's flicking the channel and suddenly they flick it on and she's suddenly there saying this stuff, somebody could go, oh, oh, like, you know, something's actually happened.

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I feel...

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I think that the BBC wouldn't allow them to just show it on the screen.

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Yeah, yeah, that has to be.

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Yeah, you have to be looking at a TV show.

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And so I think all of the cathode ray, you know, the little pixel elements.

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They're all there because they're required.

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But, I mean, you could shoot it across the room.

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Like, you don't, it's, I mean, it's very Russell to go from TV show to TV show to the TV show, like flick, flick, flick.

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Like I see all the different...

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Paul O'Grady and Army of Ghosts and stuff.

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Barbara Windsor.

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Yeah, that's wonderful.

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Awesome.

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Just tremendous stuff.

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Bring back Barbara.

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It's all a bit too serious for that here.

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But I do think that the news reader is absolutely superb.

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And I do think too, the appeal, like experiencing Prime Minister Green's appeal, his calling for their faith, you know, he thanks them for their faith.

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All of that stuff is super brutal, isn't it?

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Like he's just looking straight into the camera straight on, doing his best sincerity impression and calling on people to trust him when we know what the inoculations are all about.

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Yeah, from last night's episode.

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It's pretty great.

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I also love that it's very British.

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Like, an American show would never entertain this.

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Like it would, that would find a way before the president had to go up and say, we're taking all the kids.

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Yeah, yeah.

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They would find a way to be annoying about it.

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Whereas because I know I said this last time I was on, because this has that very John Wyndham, British feel to it, it's just like, yeah, we'll we'll just sacrifice a whole bunch of people.

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Like, we used to send them down to the underground and let the bombs drop on them. we'll do it.

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I mean, I think that what we're kind of talking about is that that underclass, that perpetual English underclass.

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And one thing that emerges here and it said a couple of times is that actually most people are going to be unaffected by this.

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Most wealthy people.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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So Johnson says to Alice.

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It's all right. you know, Stephen's going to be okay.

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They're not taking the nice children.

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Yeah.

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Well, that should be ringing alarm bells the moment that's...

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Yeah, yeah.

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I mean, even other people's justifications, like the woman who's in charge of the troops and stuff, the Black Ops woman.

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And she's like, she's like, oh, they'll just be taking those kids off the street corners.

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Yeah, yeah.

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No, no, they're going to take other kids.

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Well, that's right.

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And I mean, that is eventually what happens because, you know, they're not cooperating.

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So we, I mean, it's perhaps the least plausible thing about the episode, I think, that you could get the British government to do anything.

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It's of alacrity.

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Yeah, but given that, I think they actually really managed to sell it quite well on a BBC bunches.

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I also think, you know, now with hindsight of having been through COVID, things can be done really quickly.

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Yeah.

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And the army can be mobilised in a hurry with things like that.

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And you just go, ooh, this actually lands a lot harder than I, it probably would at the time.

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Like it seemed silly and out there and now we're on the other side of that kind of thing happening in certain countries.

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So you think they actually sell their actual taking of the children with their 20 troops and one bus?

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And somehow, and they're one school and they're one council estate with 15 policemen or whatever, 15 people, I don't agree with you.

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And I think yours is trying so hard, but I just sit there going, really?

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Like, really?

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I don't know.

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Maybe it's because I work in TV, like that many children, that is an expensive shoot.

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That is a crazy, expensive shoot.

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Like, obviously when there's a big field of them, they're all comped in.

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And that looks crappy.

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That looks 6 kids or paste it.

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I was looking at that gang, are you kidding?

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That's fooling no one.

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I know.

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It's like that French and Saunders doing the Titanic.

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Have you seen that?

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Where they're like...

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It was directed by Edgar Wright.

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And they're like, oh, don't do anything to their extras in the making of the Titanic and they're like, don't do anything to extreme because we're going to paste you into various areas.

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And next thing you see is like the Titanic and it's them overacting everything.

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Oh, my baby.

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I did I did try and spot repeating chills.

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Yeah, I know.

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Because there's one particular gormless looking child with like butt teeth in the front and it's like, all right, I'm looking for him throughout the rest of it.

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Oh, look, I'm being a bit harsh.

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And I think they are really trying really hard to sell all of those things, but at times I just kind of went, like, I think what makes it work is that what we get to see is the sort of thing that you would never do in classic Doctor Who, which is just having a character who doesn't have a name who's reacting to something against dialogue.

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And we 1st see it in the Christmas invasion, I think, in Doctor Who, where remember all of those people are kind of walking along the street under blood control and you get a woman trying to attract her family's attention and she has dialogue.

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And here you have that woman who, like, there's a couple of people objecting to the children being taken offside in the buses, and then there's the kid who escapes and gets caught and then dragged away.

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And then later on on the estate, you see, again, those 15 troops or whatever.

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But there's enough shots of distressed parents having their children ripped away from them that, like, I don't know that repeating that in different venues would have helped.

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I, like, my crazy justification starts to work, like, because of my ridiculous theory podcast, where I'm like, oh, there was only a handful of parents, because everyone else is at work.

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I know what you're saying, Adam, because like I like to try and justify everything too.

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But I just kind of really, I'm put, I'm guessing I'm putting a 2026 lens back onto this.

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And, you know, and for that time, I know fully well, like with the budgets and all that sort of thing.

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They did it.

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It's great.

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But at the same time, it's sort of like, could I have double the amount of people?

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What I'd be satisfied with that?

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I don't know.

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But the acting's great.

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The direction's great.

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They're really selling it with the parent extras and, you know...

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And Euros is like really keeping it as tight as possible because that's the only way to sell a pretend crowd is to focus on a handful of people and not see too much background.

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Yeah.

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And like, I think they have a couple of buses.

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Like, I think they have more than just the one bass.

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And I think they managed to get shots of the children looking distressed.

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Like, and clearly they're picking the best wongs.

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Oh, you know.

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The not too overacting ones, but also they're not just sitting there.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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There are some just sitting there.

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There are just there going, okay.

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But they do manage to get some shots.

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The kids doing the acting get paid extra.

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It's really expensive because every child comes with a parent.

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So every single child is there with a guardian.

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And that is an expensive, expensive day.

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And there are lots of those shots all the way through.

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I mean, I do think, and I do remember this feeling really expensive.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And at the time.

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Yeah, and I remember as well, just that sort of sense of scale as being something that Doctor Who hadn't managed to do, even in things like Aliens of London or Doomsday, where there were giant things happening.

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They were mostly sort of giant computer generated things happening.

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Whereas here, because this is very domestic, because this is like an alien invasion that intrudes on people's homes, as we've said before, as Mrs. Frobisher, you know, made the point a couple of nights ago.

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Um, uh, it it just seems bigger.

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And I think that's why at the time I thought maybe this is the best thing of this RTD era.

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Oh, including everything.

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Yeah.

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Maybe.

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Maybe.

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I mean, there are other things that I like better.

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And I like Doctor Who and its tone.

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This is a little bit bleak for me, but torchwood can get away with it.

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Yeah, torture is like that.

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You know, one thing I found weird at the end of watching it was how many scenes you go, this absolutely would never happen.

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Like, you haven't thought this through, but the acting is so great.

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The writing of the dialogue and the interactions are so incredibly emotionally powerful that you forgive the giant holes in the plot.

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Yeah.

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Which is one of Russell's biggest problems that he writes great kitchen sync drama and does not really care if you follow the plot at all.

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It's a lot of hand waving science fiction.

219
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It's a lot of, yeah, though, they would absolutely be in a room together.

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Also, at what point?

221
00:15:31.379 --> 00:15:41.399
Did, like, you know, it's the entire world that's meant to be sending their children, but we've just pretended that everyone else is doing this same thing that the British...

222
00:15:41.460 --> 00:15:43.379
But we're just focussing on the British one.

223
00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:46.019
It's like, yeah, how are you getting all the other kids?

224
00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:46.919
Yeah.

225
00:15:46.980 --> 00:15:47.639
Yeah.

226
00:15:47.700 --> 00:15:49.620
And again, that's exactly it.

227
00:15:49.679 --> 00:15:51.480
That is kind of fridge logic, isn't it?

228
00:15:51.539 --> 00:16:05.700
Yeah, you aren't really worried about that and you're aware that this is the story being told and mediated through these characters and what he does is what a Doctor Who story would never do, which is he gives children to these major characters.

229
00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:07.799
So Jack has a grandchild.

230
00:16:07.860 --> 00:16:09.480
Frobisher has children.

231
00:16:09.539 --> 00:16:11.759
You've got Yanto's family as well.

232
00:16:11.820 --> 00:16:13.799
We've got kids from each class.

233
00:16:13.799 --> 00:16:19.259
And as I've said before, having children is a very grown up thing to do.

234
00:16:19.320 --> 00:16:26.039
It makes the show seem more grown up because when you're a kid and you're watching Doctor Who.

235
00:16:26.100 --> 00:16:27.600
You not thinking about what it's like to have kids.

236
00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:33.120
Well, there's no kids in Doctor Who until really Moffatt starts dragging them in from all over the place.

237
00:16:33.179 --> 00:16:34.379
Yeah, yeah.

238
00:16:34.440 --> 00:16:39.600
But you remember, like, I remember that scene where Watson called home in the hand of fear.

239
00:16:39.659 --> 00:16:40.679
It's super cheesy.

240
00:16:40.740 --> 00:16:43.799
And it does say, you know, tell the children I love them or whatever.

241
00:16:43.860 --> 00:16:48.419
And that kind of hits because that never happens in classic doctor.

242
00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:49.559
No one has children.

243
00:16:49.620 --> 00:16:51.779
No, no, that's right. children don't exist.

244
00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:52.620
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

245
00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:55.259
Children are for watching Doctor Who, not for being in.

246
00:16:55.259 --> 00:16:56.039
Not for being in it.

247
00:16:56.100 --> 00:17:02.820
And that's partly because Doctor Who, classic Doctor Who, is about men at work, having alien invasions and things.

248
00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:19.799
And so the moment you move it into the domestic sphere, I mean, it's why Eccleston's doctor says, I don't do domestic because he never has, but a few episodes after that, he's trying to push a toddler out of the way of the TV, you know, in Jackie Tyler's flat.

249
00:17:33.480 --> 00:17:36.359
And, of course, it ramps up, doesn't it?

250
00:17:36.420 --> 00:17:37.859
We keep cutting back throughout the episode.

251
00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:44.940
There's different phases, so initially we get 60% of people responding and sending their kids to school.

252
00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:49.440
Also that, oh, there's that gruesome scene where it's like, oh, it seems to be playing well.

253
00:17:51.180 --> 00:17:52.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

254
00:17:53.039 --> 00:17:56.220
So, 0 my god, it's so politician to go.

255
00:17:56.339 --> 00:18:00.720
Yeah, we're murdering a whole bunch of kids, but it's working.

256
00:18:00.779 --> 00:18:01.859
It's working for my numbers.

257
00:18:01.980 --> 00:18:03.180
Yeah.

258
00:18:03.180 --> 00:18:18.119
And I guess maybe the 1st big proper action sequence apart from all of that sort of stuff without characters is that scene with Capaldi and the Prime Minister. where he is the scapegoat.

259
00:18:18.119 --> 00:18:22.380
It's like, well, I'm sorry, but your kids are going.

260
00:18:22.440 --> 00:18:27.299
That's one of the scenes where I was like, this absolutely makes no sense logically.

261
00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:42.900
But, you know, it's Peter Capaldi and he's brilliant in that scene and he is, he's such a milk toast character who's like, I want to rail against this, but I'm a civil servant and I, I don't have the armaments to do that.

262
00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:49.019
But he really, like that moment where he says they're just girls, so they're just girls.

263
00:18:49.019 --> 00:18:53.579
And because I'm used to Malcolm Tucker and I'm used to him as the doctor.

264
00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:55.920
Like, why isn't he punching him in the face?

265
00:18:55.980 --> 00:18:57.359
like in thin ice.

266
00:18:57.420 --> 00:19:00.779
Why doesn't he pick up the desk and just sort of smack him over the head with it?

267
00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:01.440
Great actor.

268
00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:02.579
He's incredible.

269
00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:04.559
Like he's just incredible.

270
00:19:04.619 --> 00:19:11.460
For me, I think it is implausible, but the great thing about it is just the needless cruelty of it.

271
00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:16.079
It's a very Russell T. David scene where you go, this scene makes no sense.

272
00:19:16.200 --> 00:19:22.200
It has no place in the show, but it absolutely emotionally resonates and gives.

273
00:19:23.220 --> 00:19:32.819
It basically gives us the viewer, the feeling of what all these parents will be feeling when they find out what really happened, if the whole thing goes through kind of thing.

274
00:19:32.940 --> 00:19:35.339
I don't know if I agree that it makes no sense.

275
00:19:35.400 --> 00:19:43.140
I just feel that he set up this prime minister from the get go to be the evil cartoon villain.

276
00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:45.119
And so he's going to do that thing.

277
00:19:45.180 --> 00:19:54.720
So in my head, it's justified that he's going to have Frobisher B, the scapegoat for the government and the one that everybody sees. somebody has to do it.

278
00:19:54.779 --> 00:19:57.720
You not going to do it with the nameless person in the next cubicle.

279
00:19:57.779 --> 00:19:58.319
Do you know what I mean?

280
00:19:58.380 --> 00:20:00.900
Yeah, but also Frobisher is like, who is he?

281
00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:01.920
He's a public servant.

282
00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:03.240
No one would really know who he is.

283
00:20:03.299 --> 00:20:05.700
He's been working at MI5 or whatever it is.

284
00:20:05.759 --> 00:20:07.859
He's been working clandestinely.

285
00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:10.920
So to choose him to be the face of the government.

286
00:20:10.980 --> 00:20:14.519
That's the bit that I go, that makes no sense to me.

287
00:20:14.579 --> 00:20:16.619
It should be, you'd choose the home office.

288
00:20:16.680 --> 00:20:18.119
Like the home secretary?

289
00:20:18.180 --> 00:20:25.319
Yeah, or you'd choose someone, you know, the treasurer, so like narratively, it makes no sense to choose someone like that.

290
00:20:25.380 --> 00:20:28.380
But logically, it would make more sense.

291
00:20:28.440 --> 00:20:41.339
But narratively, it's so much more satisfying that it is Frobisher because he's done all these terrible things by covering all this up, by instituting all this and having people killed in episode one.

292
00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:52.740
So, of course, on a narrative level, we go, yes, he needs to be punished for all the things that he's done so far because he's been such a toady and done everything that needed to be done.

293
00:20:52.799 --> 00:21:01.319
So it feels satisfying on that level, but just in a governmental publicity level, it feels like a disconnect.

294
00:21:01.380 --> 00:21:04.380
But I absolutely think it narratively works perfectly.

295
00:21:04.440 --> 00:21:12.720
The thing with Russell, and you said it like, you know, has these plot holes, but I think when you know Russell's on point, is that you don't think about that.

296
00:21:12.779 --> 00:21:15.059
So I didn't think about that.

297
00:21:15.059 --> 00:21:20.460
He's the one that's going to get done because he's the one that's carrying this out for the government, right?

298
00:21:20.519 --> 00:21:21.420
So I didn't.

299
00:21:21.900 --> 00:21:23.400
This never occurred to me until this viewing.

300
00:21:23.460 --> 00:21:25.019
So for this time.

301
00:21:25.079 --> 00:21:30.720
So when Russell's on point, you don't think about what you've just thought about, like, I don't think about that.

302
00:21:30.779 --> 00:21:31.799
Therefore, it's really good.

303
00:21:31.859 --> 00:21:38.940
Like it's when he's not on point, when you've still got dialogue and you've still got things, but you see all of the plot holes. that annoys me.

304
00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:42.299
Whereas with this, I don't see that because narratively it works.

305
00:21:42.359 --> 00:21:42.960
Yes.

306
00:21:43.019 --> 00:21:45.359
And also the performance is so good.

307
00:21:45.420 --> 00:21:46.619
Oh, unbelievable, both of them.

308
00:21:46.680 --> 00:21:48.240
Yeah, both of them are so great.

309
00:21:48.299 --> 00:21:52.079
It's like they're having a really big fight and neither of them are doing anything.

310
00:21:52.140 --> 00:21:53.819
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

311
00:21:53.940 --> 00:21:57.059
Well, look, he looks up at one and he looks back down.

312
00:21:57.180 --> 00:22:02.579
Even he, as the evil cartoon villain, knows what he is doing is wrong.

313
00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:05.160
Yeah, he can't make eye contact with him.

314
00:22:05.220 --> 00:22:06.839
It is needlessly cruel.

315
00:22:06.900 --> 00:22:10.619
And like, again, I don't think it's head cannon as such.

316
00:22:10.680 --> 00:22:20.160
I think that this whole negotiation has gone to hell and it's not Frobish's fault, but Frobish is someone who's nearby.

317
00:22:20.220 --> 00:22:24.779
He was in the room when all that decision making was happening, but he wasn't at the table.

318
00:22:24.839 --> 00:22:28.859
And look, Nick Briggs already said he didn't have kids, otherwise he would have been the one.

319
00:22:28.980 --> 00:22:29.880
Yeah that's right.

320
00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:33.299
Oh my god. scene would have been awful.

321
00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:37.799
But it is also that that's kind of set up.

322
00:22:37.859 --> 00:22:39.779
You know, you're in the room, but you're not at the table.

323
00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:48.299
No one at this table is affected, but he sort of sat over there and I know that's super literal, but I do think that there's there's something about that.

324
00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:56.940
But this also comes like literally after the unit general guy talking to the 456 and saying, you know, what are the children for?

325
00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:01.619
Yeah, and it's, you know, they're hit, you know, for the drugs.

326
00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:06.539
And like, you're just there going, you're just stunned at that and then you're moving into this.

327
00:23:06.599 --> 00:23:07.619
Yeah.

328
00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:14.460
I remember that moment, the 1st time I watched it, that 1st Friday or Saturday it would have been here.

329
00:23:14.460 --> 00:23:17.940
And just going, oh, yeah.

330
00:23:17.940 --> 00:23:23.279
And then, yeah, like you say, this, this is the very next scene and you're like, I'm already down, Russell.

331
00:23:23.339 --> 00:23:24.299
Stop kicking me.

332
00:23:24.660 --> 00:23:28.500
We're already reeling from Yanto's death. exactly.

333
00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:36.599
Yeah, in fact, what's really great about that, I think, is partly that the 456 is using slang, like the hit.

334
00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:42.599
And it doesn't know Earth slang, because it had to learn off the record the other day, remember?

335
00:23:42.779 --> 00:23:48.779
But here the hit, the hit, and it's saying it in that crisp posh voice that it has.

336
00:23:48.839 --> 00:23:52.500
And then it explains it in these simplistic terms.

337
00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:58.140
I do think the dumbest line of the episode is, oh, we're dealing drugs and it's just like, what?

338
00:23:58.380 --> 00:24:00.839
Like, we're dealing drugs.

339
00:24:00.900 --> 00:24:02.819
Like now you're outraged.

340
00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:04.140
There's drugs involved.

341
00:24:04.200 --> 00:24:09.000
We're going to shovel 10s of 1000000s of children in the direction of 456.

342
00:24:09.119 --> 00:24:11.039
It looks fine when it might have been a paedophile.

343
00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:14.279
But now that it's a drug thing.

344
00:24:14.339 --> 00:24:16.019
That's much worse.

345
00:24:16.079 --> 00:24:29.700
But I still think, like, I still strongly think that that hit thing, like, it's impossible to kind of really properly conceptualise it in that way without thinking of it as paedophilia, that they're violating the bodily autonomy of the kids.

346
00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:31.859
I've said this before, for the sake of pleasure.

347
00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:34.319
And before Colonel Le, do you ask that question?

348
00:24:34.380 --> 00:24:43.680
He says, do you need them to stay alive in a way, like that would be comprehensible, that they're subsisting on the children, even that they're eating them?

349
00:24:43.740 --> 00:24:44.700
You know what I mean?

350
00:24:44.759 --> 00:24:46.200
That they need them to stay alive.

351
00:24:46.259 --> 00:24:50.039
That's one thing, but that they're just doing it because it feels good.

352
00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:53.279
That's much, much more horrific.

353
00:24:53.339 --> 00:24:54.000
Yeah.

354
00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:59.819
It's almost like saying wear paedophiles without actually bringing any sexual into it.

355
00:24:59.940 --> 00:25:00.480
Yeah.

356
00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:13.019
It's kind of, and I'm guessing this would have been around the time that all of that talk about what had been going on during the 70s and 80s was bubbling to the surface.

357
00:25:13.079 --> 00:25:17.400
So this is like the government going, we've been fine with this for a really long time.

358
00:25:17.460 --> 00:25:18.240
Yeah, yeah.

359
00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:21.119
Since the 60s, since the mid 60s.

360
00:25:21.240 --> 00:25:21.539
Yeah.

361
00:25:21.599 --> 00:25:23.640
So the subtext is wild.

362
00:25:23.700 --> 00:25:30.660
It's basically saying, yeah, you know, that guy who was on TV and the Queen used to hang out with and always was surrounded by children.

363
00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:32.519
He was a bad person.

364
00:25:32.579 --> 00:25:33.599
Yeah, yeah.

365
00:25:33.660 --> 00:25:37.200
Check out your 2 doctor's DVD special features.

366
00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:39.359
For more information.

367
00:25:48.660 --> 00:25:55.380
Don't we now sort of transition from that meeting to Phobisher going to Bridget to get the gun?

368
00:25:55.440 --> 00:25:56.160
Yeah.

369
00:25:56.220 --> 00:26:12.599
And then, I know Andy goes in complex Queen, but then it's literally into Bridget visiting Lois and having that whole talk about being a good man and cutting to what's happening at his house. is a very interesting framing sequence.

370
00:26:12.660 --> 00:26:17.220
I think that it's worth talking about the scene between him and Bridget.

371
00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:21.960
So it's the 2nd episode that Russell's written a mysterious thing.

372
00:26:22.019 --> 00:26:25.559
So it's the, what is it, the blank sheet in episode one.

373
00:26:25.619 --> 00:26:30.180
And here it's Requisition 31, which is a big gun for me to kill my family with.

374
00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:43.319
And what's great about it is that they don't say anything to each other and she knows, like when she talks about him later, There's no scene, and I don't know whether because there was one and it was can't.

375
00:26:43.380 --> 00:26:46.319
There's no scene where she receives the news that he's dead.

376
00:26:46.440 --> 00:26:48.599
So the way I...

377
00:26:48.599 --> 00:26:50.460
But she knows from getting requisition 31.

378
00:26:50.640 --> 00:26:51.299
That's right.

379
00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:52.980
She knows what he's going to do with it.

380
00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:54.240
She's known him a long time.

381
00:26:54.299 --> 00:26:55.619
She knows the kind of person here.

382
00:26:55.680 --> 00:26:56.759
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

383
00:26:56.819 --> 00:26:57.720
And I think that's really good.

384
00:26:57.779 --> 00:27:14.339
Like, I think, because we had that hint as well earlier on, maybe it's episode 2 that he and Bridget had an affair, because of Bridget's bad reaction to lower saying, pretending she's having an affair. pretending she's having a, yeah.

385
00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:14.759
Yeah.

386
00:27:14.819 --> 00:27:17.400
And it's not, you know, they don't overdo it.

387
00:27:17.460 --> 00:27:23.759
But when he just kisses her on the cheek and then leaves, that's how she knows, I think.

388
00:27:23.880 --> 00:27:25.200
I think that's really good.

389
00:27:25.259 --> 00:27:29.279
And I think we probably haven't talked enough about the woman who plays Bridget.

390
00:27:29.339 --> 00:27:30.660
She's so good.

391
00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:38.700
Well, I mean, she certainly has been in the background just giving looks a lot of the time and giving her password away.

392
00:27:38.759 --> 00:27:48.480
But here, this whole framing sequence with Lois and how she talks about John Fropisher being a good man.

393
00:27:48.539 --> 00:28:00.900
And I was listening to your episode 2 where the guys were saying like a good man in the context of his job, not necessarily a good man in the context of him outside of that.

394
00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:05.160
I thought it was an interesting take because I just thought, well, I took it both ways.

395
00:28:05.220 --> 00:28:25.740
Like, you know, but just seeing all that, you know, unfold and you know what's going to happen and then walking up the stairs and she's still talking and then all those gunshots and at this point, I'm just like, like, I'm just totally shocked and like, this is just dark stuff, you know?

396
00:28:25.799 --> 00:28:32.220
And 20 minutes and if he'd been 20 minutes later. then, well, it would have been fine.

397
00:28:32.279 --> 00:28:33.299
You know what I'm saying?

398
00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:33.839
Yeah, yeah.

399
00:28:33.900 --> 00:28:44.640
And ultimately, in terms of the sacrifice with this 456, you've got him and his family, you've got Jack's family, which is Yanto and his daughter and his nephew.

400
00:28:44.700 --> 00:28:49.920
You've got the poor people from the last episode who all got the poison gas, right?

401
00:28:49.980 --> 00:28:53.220
But they're all nameless besides our characters.

402
00:28:53.279 --> 00:28:55.200
There's not...

403
00:28:55.259 --> 00:28:56.339
But we see a lot of body bags.

404
00:28:56.400 --> 00:28:57.180
Yeah, yeah.

405
00:28:57.180 --> 00:28:59.099
Well, they show us a lot of body bag.

406
00:28:59.160 --> 00:28:59.700
That's true.

407
00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:02.460
But I'm just saying in terms of our characters on screen.

408
00:29:02.519 --> 00:29:03.240
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

409
00:29:03.299 --> 00:29:03.839
The ones we know.

410
00:29:03.900 --> 00:29:07.500
Like around the world, like this is supposed to be a worldwide event.

411
00:29:07.559 --> 00:29:10.740
It's actually very ultimately contained.

412
00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:11.640
Yeah, yeah.

413
00:29:11.700 --> 00:29:14.339
I mean, that's always Doctor Who. like...

414
00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:17.579
It's like, we can't afford to shoot outside. everyone in this room.

415
00:29:17.640 --> 00:29:19.799
But the impact on that one family.

416
00:29:19.859 --> 00:29:26.880
Yeah. it's awful I can't see how that quite works at logistically again.

417
00:29:26.940 --> 00:29:39.599
And I think that the way that I'm reading it is we don't get any audio from the house except for the gunshots because I can't see what can possibly be going on in that room.

418
00:29:39.839 --> 00:29:43.200
Also, you don't want to, and you don't want to think about it.

419
00:29:43.259 --> 00:29:44.519
You don't want to hear them screaming.

420
00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:51.960
You don't, like, it's bad enough, but there's no way, you know, of avoiding, like I was trying to picture what's happening in the room.

421
00:29:52.019 --> 00:30:05.880
And you are invited to picture it because there are the 3 gunshots, which presumably kill the girls and his wife, and then there's a pause while he has to look at what he's done and then he kills himself.

422
00:30:05.940 --> 00:30:11.039
And that's really, like, there's no other way of reading that, I think, and that's really, really quite brutal.

423
00:30:11.099 --> 00:30:19.680
I mean, it's a very hitchcocking thing to shut the door on the horror that, you know, something bad is about to happen and we're closing the door.

424
00:30:19.740 --> 00:30:20.579
Yeah, yeah.

425
00:30:20.579 --> 00:30:28.319
And you have to think about it as opposed to showing it, which on one level is horrific because you're thinking about it.

426
00:30:28.380 --> 00:30:35.460
But on another level is, I think that to shoot that scene would have been so outrageous.

427
00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:36.960
Oh yeah, you couldn't do it.

428
00:30:37.019 --> 00:30:37.680
No, no.

429
00:30:37.740 --> 00:30:49.380
But the other thing, like, I did a crime writing class once and the instructor who's a much published Australian author said, you can never kill the dog and you can never kill the kid.

430
00:30:49.440 --> 00:30:50.160
Yeah.

431
00:30:50.160 --> 00:30:53.279
Otherwise, your readers will never forgive you.

432
00:30:53.339 --> 00:30:57.480
And that is, like, they kill more than one kid in this.

433
00:30:57.539 --> 00:30:58.559
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

434
00:30:58.619 --> 00:31:00.720
I mean, I know Russell was about to walk out the door.

435
00:31:01.500 --> 00:31:05.700
But he still had, you know, the children's show going.

436
00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:07.259
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

437
00:31:07.319 --> 00:31:12.059
He still was, you know, making kids run up and downstairs and away from monsters in Sarah Jane adventures.

438
00:31:12.119 --> 00:31:25.500
So it's such a really gruesome and it's a very risky thing to do with your entire franchise, essentially. to kill a bunch of kids on screen.

439
00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:28.140
And we don't get to see the 2 girls.

440
00:31:28.200 --> 00:31:30.240
No, but we do get to see Stephen.

441
00:31:30.299 --> 00:31:31.319
Yeah.

442
00:31:31.380 --> 00:31:32.039
Yes.

443
00:31:32.039 --> 00:31:32.880
At the end.

444
00:31:32.940 --> 00:31:35.039
That is also horrific.

445
00:31:35.099 --> 00:31:38.220
But as you're saying, it's like absolutely brutal at this point.

446
00:31:38.279 --> 00:31:44.759
And we haven't got to the children being taken away from the school.

447
00:31:44.819 --> 00:31:49.680
We haven't got to Gwen on the council estate, you know, trying to rescue all those kids.

448
00:31:49.740 --> 00:31:56.940
So all of this, you're taking all of this emotion and dread into what is going to happen next.

449
00:31:57.000 --> 00:31:58.559
Like, will they actually escape?

450
00:31:58.799 --> 00:32:01.920
Yeah It's amazing doing it that early.

451
00:32:01.980 --> 00:32:04.380
It is incredible doing it that early in the episode.

452
00:32:04.440 --> 00:32:11.579
Well, I think the other thing is because it's torchwood and not Doctor Who, and we have seen them fail more than once.

453
00:32:11.640 --> 00:32:14.279
We seen them get to the end of the episode and it's like, we didn't solve anything.

454
00:32:14.400 --> 00:32:17.039
Everyone died and the alien went away.

455
00:32:17.099 --> 00:32:19.559
Or everyone had weird explosive sex.

456
00:32:21.119 --> 00:32:24.720
So, you know, we've seen the death of the cyberwoman.

457
00:32:24.779 --> 00:32:28.380
We've seen all of the things happen where Torchwood don't succeed.

458
00:32:28.440 --> 00:32:32.819
And I very much felt when I 1st watched this.

459
00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:34.980
I was like, this is gonna end badly.

460
00:32:35.099 --> 00:32:38.759
Yeah, but this is not like, no one's saving the day.

461
00:32:38.819 --> 00:32:40.859
Captain Jackie's going to fuck up again.

462
00:32:40.920 --> 00:32:42.720
He sold the kids the 1st time.

463
00:32:42.779 --> 00:32:46.799
Is he going to just let this happen and the world is ruined.

464
00:32:46.859 --> 00:32:47.579
Yeah, yeah.

465
00:32:47.640 --> 00:32:56.039
I think, though, because we start with a mention of the doctor, that does place this in the same Doctor Who timeline.

466
00:32:56.099 --> 00:33:11.519
And so we're not going to have the doctor turn up this Christmas to a world where 10% of the world's children have been taken away while he was naming a galaxy Alison. you know, like I just think that that that wasn't possible.

467
00:33:11.579 --> 00:33:14.640
So I do think that it is going to resolve itself.

468
00:33:14.700 --> 00:33:36.960
But of course, the only way that it can resolve itself is in a bad way, for precisely the reason because what we had, and we talked about the trolly problem the other week, what we had was this idea that you sacrifice a small number of people in order to ensure the safety of a large number of people.

469
00:33:37.019 --> 00:33:39.059
And in 1965.

470
00:33:39.299 --> 00:33:43.799
It was 12 children to save 25000000 people from the Indonesian flu.

471
00:33:43.859 --> 00:33:49.559
Here, it's one child to save 6700000000 people.

472
00:33:49.619 --> 00:33:53.339
But Jack makes the same decision in each case.

473
00:33:53.400 --> 00:33:57.599
He sacrifices a small number of people to save a big number of people.

474
00:33:57.660 --> 00:34:06.180
Now, in the parent show, you would never do that, something would turn up, the doctor would reject that and say, no, I'm going to...

475
00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:06.900
Yeah, yeah.

476
00:34:06.960 --> 00:34:21.000
In fact, you actually have Yanto in episode 4 saying to Jack that he should do that, the Jack He knows would stand up and not tolerate that sacrifice, but Jack didn't do that.

477
00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:23.340
And now Yanto's gone.

478
00:34:23.400 --> 00:34:25.980
There's no one there to say you should stand up.

479
00:34:26.039 --> 00:34:28.619
And you know what would have happened if it was a Doctor Who?

480
00:34:28.679 --> 00:34:33.659
Is the doctor would have channelled that thing through him and been like, I can be a child.

481
00:34:33.659 --> 00:34:35.400
Yeah. like every generation or whatever.

482
00:34:35.460 --> 00:34:38.039
And then someone would have pushed him out of the way and died.

483
00:34:38.099 --> 00:34:39.480
Yeah, yeah.

484
00:34:39.539 --> 00:34:41.460
Self sacrifice.

485
00:34:41.519 --> 00:34:42.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

486
00:34:42.480 --> 00:34:42.900
Yeah.

487
00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:51.179
Or someone, like, like, um, the annoying American Tech Bro would quickly... and do it instead of the doctor doing it.

488
00:34:51.239 --> 00:34:54.179
Can I say, I am annoyed that that is it Decker?

489
00:34:54.239 --> 00:34:54.840
Who's the old guy?

490
00:34:54.900 --> 00:34:55.739
Yeah, yeah, Decker.

491
00:34:55.739 --> 00:34:57.420
I am annoyed that he survived last episode.

492
00:34:57.480 --> 00:34:58.019
I mentioned it.

493
00:34:58.079 --> 00:35:01.139
I thought that he would not survive in his little suit.

494
00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:09.179
And I think we said in the last episode or I thought that the reason that he's there at all, because we do need him in this final episode, I think.

495
00:35:09.239 --> 00:35:12.599
Yes, to understand because he's been working on it since.

496
00:35:12.659 --> 00:35:18.599
That's right And he is the one that then points Jack to sacrificing the key.

497
00:35:18.659 --> 00:35:19.860
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

498
00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:21.960
So we need that not to be Jack's idea.

499
00:35:22.019 --> 00:35:23.820
We need there to be dialogue about it too.

500
00:35:23.880 --> 00:35:29.099
Like, if Jack comes up with the idea, he doesn't want to do it.

501
00:35:29.159 --> 00:35:30.239
Do you know what I mean?

502
00:35:30.300 --> 00:35:31.139
And he won't mention it.

503
00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:33.960
But because Deck is there, he mentions it.

504
00:35:34.019 --> 00:35:35.760
So why is that out loud?

505
00:35:35.820 --> 00:35:37.079
Yeah, everyone's right.

506
00:35:37.139 --> 00:35:39.179
And Bitchface, whatever her name is.

507
00:35:39.239 --> 00:35:46.860
Johnson is not going to do it because she's already said she's already, they've already tried to humanise her with saying that he's going to be okay.

508
00:35:46.920 --> 00:35:56.880
But I actually think what's interesting is that even though they've humanised her, she still thinks that the sacrifice of one child is fine.

509
00:35:56.940 --> 00:36:08.159
I got the impression in the last episode in this that her kind of starting to come on board is because they never say it, but she has kids.

510
00:36:08.219 --> 00:36:09.239
Oh, maybe.

511
00:36:09.239 --> 00:36:19.139
Like, it's A, the reason it's a woman is so that we can have, like, there can be a maternal side to her after all of the brutality she's enacted on everyone.

512
00:36:19.199 --> 00:36:25.380
And there's just that moment of when she's saying, oh, it'll be all the kids from the street corners and you're like, you've got kids.

513
00:36:25.500 --> 00:36:27.659
Yeah, she's got kids at home.

514
00:36:27.719 --> 00:36:37.679
Because, I mean, the other thing about her is that she's kind of really murderous in the 1st few episodes, but even she isn't on board and she thinks this is horrifying.

515
00:36:37.739 --> 00:36:48.539
The thing, you know, she's making the same decision essentially that Lois makes, which is to betray, you know, a commitment that she's made to protect the state.

516
00:36:48.599 --> 00:36:55.559
But then I do think that she is kind of on board with the sacrifice of Steve.

517
00:36:55.619 --> 00:36:56.159
Oh, yeah.

518
00:36:56.159 --> 00:37:17.099
Because in a way, like, part of the problem is, I think, and part of the reason that the relationship between Alice and Jack breaks down completely and you can't have a scene where they talk to one another at the end is that it was the right thing to do to kill Stephen.

519
00:37:17.159 --> 00:37:18.900
If it's a choice.

520
00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:20.099
Do you know what I mean?

521
00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:23.820
The way the Doctor Who would do it, it would be someone volunteers to do it.

522
00:37:23.880 --> 00:37:26.159
You know, someone volunteers.

523
00:37:26.460 --> 00:37:30.599
But here we've got a child who can't consent to that because they can't understand it.

524
00:37:30.659 --> 00:37:31.920
It has to be a child.

525
00:37:32.039 --> 00:37:35.760
And it's the same thing.

526
00:37:36.300 --> 00:37:40.079
Do you know the story, the ones who walk away from omelas?

527
00:37:40.139 --> 00:37:41.219
Oh my god, it's the best.

528
00:37:41.280 --> 00:37:42.480
Ursula Kayla Guine.

529
00:37:42.539 --> 00:37:43.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

530
00:37:43.260 --> 00:37:50.820
So this is a story where there's an entire happy fantasy world, a science fiction world that you're invited to imagine.

531
00:37:50.820 --> 00:38:18.420
And then you're invited to imagine one single child in a prison cell who is being mistreated, who's being immiserated, who is starved and mistreated and unloved, and we're made to understand that the reason that that child's treated in that way, is that it actually ensures the good fortune and happiness of everyone else in the world.

532
00:38:18.539 --> 00:38:19.619
Okay.

533
00:38:19.619 --> 00:38:26.880
And they do it in, um, they do that in, in a Star Trek, in straight true worlds.

534
00:38:26.940 --> 00:38:28.800
Lift us where suffering cannot reach.

535
00:38:28.860 --> 00:38:35.820
The little boy who has to be sacrificed in order to ensure that his planet is prosperous.

536
00:38:35.880 --> 00:38:47.219
And it's called the ones who walk away from Omelas, the story, because there are people who learn of this and then kind of go, well, now I'm going to go on with my lie.

537
00:38:47.280 --> 00:38:48.780
It's like the space whale.

538
00:38:49.500 --> 00:38:52.739
Yeah, yeah, yeah. where they go, I'm going to choose to forget that that happened.

539
00:38:52.800 --> 00:38:55.199
Yes, that's right. and live with it.

540
00:38:55.260 --> 00:38:59.039
Or the people who walk away, the people who say I can't be part of this world.

541
00:38:59.099 --> 00:39:17.880
And the fact of the of the matter is, the reason that that hears is, of course, because the ease and prosperity that we have been enjoying ourselves in this wealthy country is predicated on the poverty and emiseration of other people in the world.

542
00:39:17.940 --> 00:39:22.440
I read it as because it was in the 70s.

543
00:39:22.500 --> 00:39:36.000
And I so I listened to this great podcast once about a girl who grew up in South Africa and she described it as, because she's a white girl, that it was a utopia.

544
00:39:36.059 --> 00:39:40.139
You never saw anything on the news about what was really going on with apartheid.

545
00:39:40.199 --> 00:39:42.000
You never knew that that was happening.

546
00:39:42.059 --> 00:39:45.719
Like you just lived in this glorious place where everything was amazing.

547
00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:54.840
And yet there's an entire race of people being treated horrifically just over there. that you can't quite see because the news doesn't cover it.

548
00:39:54.900 --> 00:39:58.380
But I think it works on, you know, like on so many levels.

549
00:39:58.500 --> 00:39:58.860
Yeah.

550
00:39:58.920 --> 00:40:04.320
Have you ever read, there's a, there was an award-winning story last year, which was a response by Isabel J.

551
00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:07.320
Kim called, They keep killing the kid in the omelus hall?

552
00:40:07.739 --> 00:40:09.960
No, I have heard of it.

553
00:40:10.019 --> 00:40:25.199
It's really funny And so in some sense, we're outraged by that murder, and that murder is made worse because it's a kid that he knows it's his own grandson that he's doing this to.

554
00:40:25.260 --> 00:40:27.960
And of course, he needs to be punished as well.

555
00:40:28.019 --> 00:40:30.599
Just the way that Frobisher needed to be punished.

556
00:40:30.659 --> 00:40:33.599
Jack needs to be punished for what he did to the kids in 1965.

557
00:40:33.840 --> 00:40:36.000
And so he's made to do it again.

558
00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:38.760
And he's made to do it again to his own kid.

559
00:40:38.820 --> 00:40:40.860
It's interesting that they kill off Clem.

560
00:40:40.980 --> 00:40:52.800
And that's one character, had he survived, that previous episode could have been the one person to actually make self sacrifice or save it's my time because of everything I've gone through.

561
00:40:52.860 --> 00:41:03.900
Like he was a conduit and and but that's why the 456 kill him because they recognise that he is a vulnerability of theirs.

562
00:41:03.960 --> 00:41:08.940
Like, I think, I don't know how clearly that stated in the dialogue and maybe that's just me.

563
00:41:09.059 --> 00:41:13.139
But I thought that that was the thing, that the reason they kill him because they do ask.

564
00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:15.360
Yeah, because that's like that's how they work it out.

565
00:41:15.420 --> 00:41:16.739
They're like, why did they kill him?

566
00:41:16.800 --> 00:41:18.119
How did they kill him?

567
00:41:18.179 --> 00:41:22.199
And it's like, oh, they killed him because he was a vulnerability.

568
00:41:22.260 --> 00:41:27.599
And he was an outlier and we can use that against them.

569
00:41:27.719 --> 00:41:32.219
And I do think there's a stroke of genius in getting all of the kids to scream.

570
00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:43.139
Like, it's not just Stephen doing the thing and bleeding from the head and all of that sort of horrible stuff, which is really prolonged at which they make Alice Watch.

571
00:41:43.260 --> 00:41:45.420
Yeah, and it's that shaking thing too.

572
00:41:45.539 --> 00:41:51.239
Yeah, yeah. that they've just learned to do. everybody seems to do like at that time.

573
00:41:51.300 --> 00:41:52.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

574
00:41:52.079 --> 00:41:55.980
Isn't it like when the master is changing like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

575
00:41:56.039 --> 00:41:56.400
That's right.

576
00:41:56.519 --> 00:41:57.119
That's right.

577
00:41:57.179 --> 00:41:58.320
They do use it in the end of time.

578
00:41:58.440 --> 00:41:59.400
Yeah, yeah.

579
00:41:59.699 --> 00:42:02.940
So she she has to watch it.

580
00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:04.440
Like she's forced to watch it.

581
00:42:04.500 --> 00:42:11.099
Jack is forced to watch it. it's really vivid and really brutal and really kind of explicit.

582
00:42:11.460 --> 00:42:13.980
Are we watching at the same time?

583
00:42:14.039 --> 00:42:18.059
Gwen and Reese and everybody trying to get away from the troops with the small children.

584
00:42:18.179 --> 00:42:19.079
Yeah, yeah.

585
00:42:19.139 --> 00:42:20.760
And I think that's actually really well shot.

586
00:42:20.820 --> 00:42:22.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

587
00:42:22.500 --> 00:42:26.460
And also, the fact that they go into what looks like an abattoir.

588
00:42:26.519 --> 00:42:28.260
I was about to say.

589
00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:29.340
Yeah, yeah.

590
00:42:29.400 --> 00:42:40.199
It is, it is really, I don't know whether that was a Euroslyn thing or it was the production, uh, location manager, but it's just like, ooh, yeah.

591
00:42:40.199 --> 00:42:42.000
A little on the nose, but it's kind of perfect.

592
00:42:42.059 --> 00:42:49.260
I think the incredible thing is that little girl who gets left behind and then is caught by the troops and is screaming and stuff.

593
00:42:49.320 --> 00:42:51.780
Like all of that stuff is so incredibly great.

594
00:42:51.840 --> 00:42:59.280
I think also there's a big highlight is Andy taking his police uniform off and going in and attacking the troops.

595
00:42:59.340 --> 00:43:00.900
I don't want to be part of this system.

596
00:43:00.960 --> 00:43:04.800
Yeah, yeah, it's not just, like, he doesn't go in with his police thing on.

597
00:43:04.860 --> 00:43:06.300
He rejects the whole police thing.

598
00:43:06.360 --> 00:43:14.219
I think I don't know what happens in Torchwood later on, but I would like to think that he stops being a policeman at that point altogether.

599
00:43:14.280 --> 00:43:16.679
I mean, in the audios, he's around forever.

600
00:43:16.739 --> 00:43:17.880
Yeah, of course he is.

601
00:43:17.940 --> 00:43:29.639
It's funny because I kind of thought, well, you know, at the end of this, only person left in torture it is Gwen, but she's going but she's going to get Andy and Reese and Johnson and Lois and they're going to be the new Torchwood team.

602
00:43:29.699 --> 00:43:31.440
Like, you know, in my head cannon.

603
00:43:31.500 --> 00:43:41.940
We said in an earlier episode that Lois is in prison locked up at the end of this, but she's not because she's going to be released by Denise.

604
00:43:41.940 --> 00:43:44.699
She's going to be released by Denise.

605
00:43:44.940 --> 00:43:53.400
That's another thing that really distinguishes this from Doctor Who because in Doctor Who, when anyone is locked up, they spend the rest of the time trying to get out.

606
00:43:53.460 --> 00:43:54.480
Yeah, yeah.

607
00:43:54.539 --> 00:43:56.400
But here people are locked up and they're locked up.

608
00:43:56.460 --> 00:43:56.880
Yeah.

609
00:44:02.940 --> 00:44:04.920
But before we get to that.

610
00:44:04.980 --> 00:44:07.139
It's the end of the 456.

611
00:44:07.559 --> 00:44:09.960
All that bugged.

612
00:44:10.079 --> 00:44:11.159
Oh, good.

613
00:44:11.880 --> 00:44:13.619
Oh my god, it's so gross.

614
00:44:13.679 --> 00:44:15.360
It's super satisfying though.

615
00:44:15.420 --> 00:44:22.320
I mean, I think if they just beamed out of there, that would have been nowhere near as fun because we want them punished.

616
00:44:22.380 --> 00:44:24.119
And it is that usual thing.

617
00:44:24.179 --> 00:44:34.500
It's the Santarin experiment thing, which we do again in Horror of Fang Rock, where you just kill one of the aliens and the rest of them go, actually, let's, we'll go. pee off.

618
00:44:34.619 --> 00:44:35.639
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

619
00:44:35.699 --> 00:44:42.239
But having it explode, and particularly after it's been sort of spraying diarrhoea on the walls of a thing for a bunch of episodes.

620
00:44:42.300 --> 00:44:44.639
Like, it's super gross.

621
00:44:44.699 --> 00:44:48.239
It's super visceral, but it is a bit of a punch the M moment.

622
00:44:48.300 --> 00:44:48.900
It is pretty great.

623
00:44:48.960 --> 00:44:53.219
But also, and no one says this, but they have just killed another child.

624
00:44:53.280 --> 00:44:54.840
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

625
00:44:54.900 --> 00:44:56.460
There is a child in there.

626
00:44:56.519 --> 00:44:57.599
Yes of course.

627
00:44:57.659 --> 00:44:58.619
1965.

628
00:44:58.860 --> 00:45:03.420
And that is part of that giant explosion of blood and it's like, oh, wow.

629
00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:06.840
They're killing kids all over the place in this episode.

630
00:45:06.900 --> 00:45:09.119
This is the 1st time that's occurred.

631
00:45:09.420 --> 00:45:11.460
It was a puppet child.

632
00:45:11.519 --> 00:45:14.219
It was a puppet baby with a mask on, but yeah.

633
00:45:14.280 --> 00:45:24.119
But I like to think that when that happens to the 456 in that cell, it's also happening up in the spaceship too. they're getting affected too, which is why they then decide time to get out of here.

634
00:45:24.179 --> 00:45:28.260
Or they're just like, oh, they've worked out how to hurt us.

635
00:45:28.320 --> 00:45:31.199
So we, there's no way we can go back now.

636
00:45:31.260 --> 00:45:49.679
I really love the bit at the end where, I mean, obviously, Alice's reaction is really tragic, all of that sort of stuff, but the triumph that Gwen and Reese get to experience and little Misha, when Gwen calls her a clever girl, what did you do, you clever girl?

637
00:45:49.739 --> 00:45:51.420
I just think that's so adorable.

638
00:45:51.480 --> 00:45:55.079
Because Misha is the best child in the show.

639
00:45:55.079 --> 00:45:58.320
And she is so into the screaming.

640
00:45:58.380 --> 00:46:01.440
Like she just opens her mouth so big and wide.

641
00:46:01.500 --> 00:46:04.380
She's doing exactly what our Ross is telling her to do.

642
00:46:04.440 --> 00:46:08.039
She's got that little, you know, frown on her face and stuff.

643
00:46:08.099 --> 00:46:09.659
I just think she's tremendous.

644
00:46:09.719 --> 00:46:10.440
She's the best one.

645
00:46:10.500 --> 00:46:12.780
You've got to track her down for a podcast.

646
00:46:12.840 --> 00:46:13.980
I do.

647
00:46:13.980 --> 00:46:16.440
What's she doing now?

648
00:46:16.500 --> 00:46:18.179
I do question this.

649
00:46:18.239 --> 00:46:19.440
The trip suddenly stop.

650
00:46:19.500 --> 00:46:21.480
And it sort of like, was an order given?

651
00:46:21.539 --> 00:46:25.559
Like, that's, I mean, that's, again, it's Russell.

652
00:46:25.619 --> 00:46:28.559
That's Russell's little plot holes that he doesn't like to deal with.

653
00:46:28.619 --> 00:46:32.820
But I mean, I think if they can mobilise them in a moment, they can stop the minimum.

654
00:46:32.880 --> 00:46:34.079
We don't need to see that.

655
00:46:34.440 --> 00:46:43.440
Because once you've dealt with a 456 and then dealing with what we need to see dealt with next is, of course, the Prime Minister.

656
00:46:43.500 --> 00:46:45.599
And what a what a scene that is.

657
00:46:45.659 --> 00:46:46.260
Oh, yeah.

658
00:46:46.320 --> 00:46:51.599
Because like I didn't put 2 and 2 together when I 1st watched it, that she had the contact lenses.

659
00:46:51.659 --> 00:46:52.019
No.

660
00:46:52.019 --> 00:46:54.360
She is to, now that you watch it.

661
00:46:54.420 --> 00:46:57.179
She's kind of staring like this the whole time.

662
00:46:57.239 --> 00:47:01.440
And of course, she is suspicious of Lois as well.

663
00:47:01.500 --> 00:47:04.679
Because she's clocked at Lois is always trying to look at someone's mouth.

664
00:47:04.739 --> 00:47:05.940
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

665
00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:08.340
So in that thing on floor 13.

666
00:47:08.519 --> 00:47:12.059
She's constantly tracking Lois and shooting daggers at Lois.

667
00:47:12.119 --> 00:47:29.400
So there's something very moffity, isn't there about the reinterpretation of that visit where it actually looks like she's gone to visit Lois in order to give a speech that can be intercunt with the death of the Frobisher family.

668
00:47:29.460 --> 00:47:30.780
It's saying look what you've done.

669
00:47:30.900 --> 00:47:38.579
But instead, she's actually gone to Lois and got the instructions on how to use the contact lenses.

670
00:47:38.639 --> 00:47:40.019
Do you ever watch Matlock?

671
00:47:40.079 --> 00:47:41.099
They do that in every episode.

672
00:47:41.159 --> 00:47:42.719
Or a poker face.

673
00:47:42.780 --> 00:47:43.260
Yes.

674
00:47:43.320 --> 00:47:46.380
There's a bit of information that you're missing that you don't see.

675
00:47:46.440 --> 00:47:49.139
Yeah, you certainly see part of that. they show you at the end of the episode.

676
00:47:49.199 --> 00:47:50.400
It's like, oh, that.

677
00:47:50.460 --> 00:47:51.179
Oh, that happened.

678
00:47:51.239 --> 00:47:51.900
I miss that.

679
00:47:51.960 --> 00:47:54.420
But it's a very Moffat thing to do, isn't it?

680
00:47:54.480 --> 00:47:56.340
To reinterpret something that you've already seen.

681
00:47:56.400 --> 00:47:58.139
And that's a great scene.

682
00:47:58.199 --> 00:48:04.920
I do think it's slightly undercut by the fact that we had a similar threat in episode four.

683
00:48:05.039 --> 00:48:20.159
And what the Prime Minister says here, which is just, oh, you know, we're lucky the Americans were here and they can take the fall. is nowhere near as bad as, say, what Denise said in the previous episode when she was being recorded.

684
00:48:20.219 --> 00:48:27.360
So I don't think that works quite as well, but he is so great at being defeated.

685
00:48:27.480 --> 00:48:28.679
Isn't he that actor?

686
00:48:28.739 --> 00:48:29.340
tremendous.

687
00:48:29.400 --> 00:48:33.059
Oh, yeah, and the fact that Denise is there ready to, you know, take control.

688
00:48:33.119 --> 00:48:34.139
Yeah, yeah.

689
00:48:34.199 --> 00:48:35.639
Awful, horrible Denise.

690
00:48:35.639 --> 00:48:39.900
With the school league tables is now going to be in charge.

691
00:48:39.960 --> 00:48:40.679
I know.

692
00:48:40.739 --> 00:48:49.800
And like, yeah, that league table's speech is one of those really chilling moments, previous episodes, where she's like, well, what are they for?

693
00:48:49.860 --> 00:48:51.599
Yeah, it's so great.

694
00:48:51.659 --> 00:48:54.000
But it's all leading to this moment.

695
00:48:54.059 --> 00:48:55.079
Denise's destiny.

696
00:48:55.139 --> 00:48:55.619
Yeah.

697
00:48:55.679 --> 00:48:57.960
No, it literally...

698
00:48:58.019 --> 00:48:59.940
And so there's no happy ending.

699
00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:02.280
Institutionally, no one learns anything.

700
00:49:02.340 --> 00:49:09.239
We are still under the government that was prepared to do this to the children.

701
00:49:09.300 --> 00:49:13.920
And will continue to do it in a less kind of, you know, metaphorical way.

702
00:49:13.980 --> 00:49:17.340
I mean, it's, you know, it's obviously conservative government.

703
00:49:17.400 --> 00:49:18.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

704
00:49:18.539 --> 00:49:19.860
No, but I mean, I think it is.

705
00:49:19.860 --> 00:49:21.780
They've continued to do exactly what they've always done.

706
00:49:21.840 --> 00:49:22.860
Yeah, yeah.

707
00:49:22.920 --> 00:49:24.659
Shove kids up chimneys.

708
00:49:24.719 --> 00:49:25.559
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

709
00:49:26.760 --> 00:49:30.900
You know, at this point, you know, what what is the happy ending to this episode?

710
00:49:31.019 --> 00:49:37.800
Yeah, we defeated the four or five, six, but look at the price that individuals have paid and people have paid.

711
00:49:37.860 --> 00:49:40.679
And the only, I mean, Lois is going to get out of jail.

712
00:49:40.739 --> 00:49:41.280
Yeah.

713
00:49:41.280 --> 00:49:48.420
Gwen Reese, Jack, all the kids on the estate, they survive, but how happy is it?

714
00:49:48.539 --> 00:49:50.219
It a bit of sweet sort of ending, isn't it?

715
00:49:50.280 --> 00:49:57.179
I mean, at least you get the payoff of one little happy ending, which is Gwen is heavily pregnant at the end.

716
00:49:57.239 --> 00:49:57.840
Yeah.

717
00:49:57.840 --> 00:50:01.800
After having kind of implied to Reese that she might not go through with it.

718
00:50:01.920 --> 00:50:03.239
And I, you know what?

719
00:50:03.300 --> 00:50:07.079
really hated that about this episode. didn't think that she needed to imply that at all.

720
00:50:07.139 --> 00:50:08.880
I just didn't like it.

721
00:50:08.880 --> 00:50:11.219
And then she says, 0 no, I would never do that.

722
00:50:11.280 --> 00:50:17.579
And, you know, there's dramatic reasons for it, but I just kind of thought, did we need that on top of everything else?

723
00:50:17.639 --> 00:50:23.159
I think it was just like, it was a really, you know, we're seeing what the world is like.

724
00:50:23.219 --> 00:50:28.980
Like she's now looked under the hood of government and seen just how gruesome it is.

725
00:50:29.039 --> 00:50:31.320
Like, she thought the things coming to earth were bad.

726
00:50:31.380 --> 00:50:31.980
Yeah.

727
00:50:31.980 --> 00:50:48.539
And now she's seen that what is in charge of the earth is also horrible and it is, I mean, it is a thing that women go through a lot when they're, when they're pregnant is like, do I want to raise someone in this world and you're allowed to change your mind on those kind of things?

728
00:50:48.539 --> 00:50:53.460
And I, yeah, I, it was a cruel thing to do to Reese. in that moment.

729
00:50:53.519 --> 00:50:54.239
I agree.

730
00:50:54.300 --> 00:50:59.639
But also it's just like a comment on everything that's happened in the show up to then.

731
00:50:59.699 --> 00:51:00.659
I get it.

732
00:51:00.719 --> 00:51:03.239
I just think the dialogue could have been done in a slightly different way.

733
00:51:03.300 --> 00:51:05.099
Like, I just thought it was a bit blunt.

734
00:51:05.159 --> 00:51:12.360
And it was really expedient because it's like, oh, we're just in a car and we've got to get to this place and what can I fill this time with conversation?

735
00:51:12.420 --> 00:51:14.039
It's like, oh, more bleak shit.

736
00:51:14.099 --> 00:51:15.179
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

737
00:51:15.239 --> 00:51:18.420
But I mean, I genuinely think that that's the reason that she's pregnant.

738
00:51:18.420 --> 00:51:25.800
In this story is because that then gives her a stake in the state of the future that she doesn't have.

739
00:51:25.860 --> 00:51:31.860
And so I think, again, we are almost always going to head to that scene where she said that.

740
00:51:31.920 --> 00:51:40.980
What annoys me is it's part of a long tradition of women contemplating having abortions on television only to decide that they're not going to.

741
00:51:41.039 --> 00:51:43.320
And like I'm glad that she doesn't.

742
00:51:43.380 --> 00:51:47.699
I'm glad we see her pregnant at the end and she does get to have a baby and a machine gun.

743
00:51:47.699 --> 00:51:57.900
I think in episode one of Torchwood Miracle Day, which is pretty awesome, not the season, but when with a child.

744
00:51:58.679 --> 00:51:59.579
I would agree with that.

745
00:52:00.239 --> 00:52:04.019
But, like, it just sort of slightly irritates me a bit.

746
00:52:04.079 --> 00:52:14.039
I'm always a little bit relieved that occasionally on television these days you do actually see someone making a conceded decision to have an abortion and then they go through with it and they're not punished for it.

747
00:52:14.099 --> 00:52:16.619
I think it's a little bit...

748
00:52:16.619 --> 00:52:18.300
I feel like it's, I don't know.

749
00:52:18.360 --> 00:52:34.440
It felt like a moment where if the show hadn't resolved the 456 and they had taken all those 1000000s of children with them as drugs, that she would have actually gone through with terminating, because you would have gone, this world is no good.

750
00:52:34.500 --> 00:52:35.820
And as well.

751
00:52:35.880 --> 00:52:38.820
I mean, the thing is with the 456 is they come back.

752
00:52:38.880 --> 00:52:53.820
Like, the problem with this, one of the big problems with this is it's not exchanging 10s of 1000000s of children for 1000000000s of people's safety because that didn't work last time either.

753
00:52:53.880 --> 00:52:54.659
They came back.

754
00:52:54.719 --> 00:52:55.559
They're extorting.

755
00:52:55.619 --> 00:52:56.400
Yeah, that's right.

756
00:52:56.460 --> 00:52:58.500
And Gwen says that, doesn't she?

757
00:52:58.559 --> 00:53:00.000
She says, you know, you should have known.

758
00:53:00.059 --> 00:53:02.159
It's a protection It's a protection racket.

759
00:53:02.219 --> 00:53:03.480
That's precisely what she says.

760
00:53:03.539 --> 00:53:04.739
And so they'll be back.

761
00:53:04.800 --> 00:53:05.880
They have to be defeated.

762
00:53:05.940 --> 00:53:13.860
We don't have compliance, isn't really a proper, a proper alternative, a proper solution to the problem.

763
00:53:13.920 --> 00:53:24.719
You know, if we live in a world where the 456 come back for more kids every few years, then absolutely, that's not the world that you want to bring a child into at all.

764
00:53:28.800 --> 00:53:41.820
And then at the end we get that, you know, that wonderful ending with Jack teleporting up into the atmosphere like a Doctor Who Christmas episode where the TARDIS go zap up into the atmosphere like it never does.

765
00:53:41.880 --> 00:53:43.739
Do you know what I'm saying?

766
00:53:43.800 --> 00:53:47.400
Like it only happens at Christmas and said, yeah, it's very run away.

767
00:53:47.460 --> 00:53:51.539
When does he appear next in, is it just Miracle Day?

768
00:53:51.599 --> 00:53:52.739
It's not in Doctor Who, is it?

769
00:53:52.800 --> 00:53:56.280
Yeah, yeah, he's in the at the end of time where he goes to the.

770
00:53:56.340 --> 00:53:59.460
Oh, so he's gone to meet Alonso.

771
00:53:59.519 --> 00:54:00.480
Russell Toby.

772
00:54:00.539 --> 00:54:00.840
Yeah.

773
00:54:00.900 --> 00:54:01.500
Yeah, yeah.

774
00:54:01.559 --> 00:54:05.219
It was a little unsatisfying for me, like the end of Greece.

775
00:54:06.360 --> 00:54:08.940
Why are you not flying in the car?

776
00:54:10.380 --> 00:54:12.539
That's awesome.

777
00:54:12.599 --> 00:54:13.320
Shut up.

778
00:54:13.380 --> 00:54:15.420
No, I agree with you.

779
00:54:15.480 --> 00:54:16.980
What is that?

780
00:54:17.039 --> 00:54:17.760
Why is that?

781
00:54:17.820 --> 00:54:19.079
Why is why is that?

782
00:54:19.139 --> 00:54:20.519
Why does he fly off into the sky?

783
00:54:20.579 --> 00:54:27.179
Also, it feels like he's getting, you know, he's all sad and mournful, but then shoots up in the sky.

784
00:54:27.239 --> 00:54:28.860
It's like, well, that looks like a happy ending.

785
00:54:28.980 --> 00:54:31.679
I actually dislike that ending enormously.

786
00:54:31.739 --> 00:54:35.820
And I think it's because we've seen Gwen crying quite a lot this episode.

787
00:54:35.880 --> 00:54:40.139
And having her cry that horrible Jack is going away.

788
00:54:40.199 --> 00:54:42.480
Like, it's just too much.

789
00:54:42.539 --> 00:54:46.320
That whole scene is just too overwrought and too overplayed.

790
00:54:46.320 --> 00:54:49.800
And you've got Reese undercutting it a little bit.

791
00:54:49.860 --> 00:55:09.119
And even just having her continually turning around as they go off together, as her and Reese go off together, she keeps turning around and looking in the sky after Jack, as if she's kind of still, like, she can't just settle into now I have my husband and a child and I'm okay.

792
00:55:09.179 --> 00:55:11.820
He goes back to all the crap back in season.

793
00:55:11.940 --> 00:55:12.900
Yeah exactly.

794
00:55:12.960 --> 00:55:14.460
I thought we'd put behind us.

795
00:55:14.519 --> 00:55:14.940
You know?

796
00:55:15.059 --> 00:55:16.440
Jack is not the man for her.

797
00:55:16.559 --> 00:55:18.539
This is Reese. you know she loves him.

798
00:55:18.599 --> 00:55:19.440
We don't need that.

799
00:55:19.500 --> 00:55:24.300
Like, she could have given stuff, let him go. and not be as distressed, you know?

800
00:55:24.360 --> 00:55:28.260
And, you know, this is my guy and really pointing that out.

801
00:55:28.320 --> 00:55:31.320
Yeah, and but it's also, this is like Russell thing.

802
00:55:31.380 --> 00:55:35.820
It's like Jack is his Doctor Who, you know, for this show.

803
00:55:35.940 --> 00:55:43.860
And so the companion for one of a better term for whatever Gwen's role is, is to be constantly pining after the doctor.

804
00:55:43.920 --> 00:55:48.539
And it's just that's the Russell's mode with how things work.

805
00:55:48.599 --> 00:55:51.360
It's the assistant is always obsessed.

806
00:55:51.360 --> 00:55:53.460
Yeah, and it would.

807
00:55:53.519 --> 00:55:58.619
Yeah, it would have been much better, I think, for her to have been kind of happy to see him go.

808
00:55:58.679 --> 00:55:59.280
Yeah.

809
00:55:59.280 --> 00:56:02.760
Like, or fit her to be philosophical about.

810
00:56:02.880 --> 00:56:08.039
I mean, he's been responsible for the death of pretty much everyone she met at Torchwood.

811
00:56:08.099 --> 00:56:08.880
He literally says that.

812
00:56:09.539 --> 00:56:12.539
And she still wants to know if he's okay.

813
00:56:12.659 --> 00:56:13.739
Yeah, yeah.

814
00:56:13.800 --> 00:56:14.340
Yeah.

815
00:56:14.400 --> 00:56:15.659
Yeah.

816
00:56:15.719 --> 00:56:16.139
Yeah.

817
00:56:16.199 --> 00:56:18.900
So I think that is a little bit unsatisfying.

818
00:56:18.960 --> 00:56:26.639
Also, like, I feel like he doesn't even get away, you know, he doesn't even get punished for Ianto dying.

819
00:56:26.699 --> 00:56:31.079
And it's up to Gwen and Andy to go and deliver the news to the system.

820
00:56:31.139 --> 00:56:32.219
Yeah, yeah.

821
00:56:32.280 --> 00:56:33.239
Oh wow.

822
00:56:33.300 --> 00:56:37.500
That is also really heartbreaking when she goes, oh, he was a master tailor.

823
00:56:37.559 --> 00:56:38.880
It's like, no, he worked at Debonance.

824
00:56:38.940 --> 00:56:40.199
He didn't know anything about him.

825
00:56:40.260 --> 00:56:41.940
Yeah, no, that was a great moment.

826
00:56:42.000 --> 00:56:45.119
It's really, really good because the master tailor thing.

827
00:56:45.179 --> 00:56:50.340
I think I've said that before, is such cheesy, ludicrous TV writers backstory.

828
00:56:50.400 --> 00:56:58.679
And so instead we discovered that actually there's a real thing and he's a loser who broke Yanto's arm that one time, remember?

829
00:56:58.739 --> 00:57:00.360
Or his leg.

830
00:57:00.420 --> 00:57:01.139
I can't remember.

831
00:57:01.199 --> 00:57:06.179
But there is something about him that he's actually a lot less impressive.

832
00:57:06.239 --> 00:57:11.280
I mean, that seems great just because the woman who plays Rhiannon is so incredibly good.

833
00:57:11.400 --> 00:57:12.480
Teddy Ricks is so good.

834
00:57:12.599 --> 00:57:13.500
Yeah, I love her.

835
00:57:13.559 --> 00:57:14.219
Just fantastic.

836
00:57:14.280 --> 00:57:20.579
But I mean, that is the case with this season is that every one of those actors playing any of the sport roles.

837
00:57:20.639 --> 00:57:23.579
All of them are just so impressive.

838
00:57:23.579 --> 00:57:29.159
And of course, even the guys with the big rubber stick that are banging it on the window to make the spew happen.

839
00:57:29.219 --> 00:57:30.960
They're good too.

840
00:57:31.019 --> 00:57:38.940
But at that mean, it's totally anchored by 8 miles. and Peter Capaldi and what's the name, Lois?

841
00:57:39.000 --> 00:57:40.440
Oh, Chris Jumbo.

842
00:57:40.500 --> 00:57:43.079
Like, it's totally anchored by all of them.

843
00:57:43.139 --> 00:57:47.820
The saddest thing about this episode is that Kush Jumbo is in a prison cell for most of it.

844
00:57:47.880 --> 00:57:50.159
And even does some good eye acting through the porthole.

845
00:57:50.219 --> 00:57:51.059
Yeah.

846
00:57:51.059 --> 00:57:53.880
But it's not anchored by Barrowman.

847
00:57:53.940 --> 00:57:55.079
No, he's terrible.

848
00:57:55.139 --> 00:58:00.420
And that's my biggest takeaway rewatching this is how adequate he is.

849
00:58:00.480 --> 00:58:02.159
He's adequate.

850
00:58:02.219 --> 00:58:03.719
But he's not impressive.

851
00:58:03.780 --> 00:58:08.880
Imagine like Paldi doing the scene where he has to sacrifice his own grandchild.

852
00:58:08.940 --> 00:58:15.659
Like Capaldi going home with Property 31 is just like you see the weight.

853
00:58:15.719 --> 00:58:17.579
You see the horror.

854
00:58:17.639 --> 00:58:22.559
You see the planning and it's just, this is the worst day of his life.

855
00:58:22.679 --> 00:58:27.300
Whereas Barriman's like, I've got a bit of a hangnail.

856
00:58:27.599 --> 00:58:29.639
He does tear up.

857
00:58:29.699 --> 00:58:31.679
He does tear up. stoic.

858
00:58:31.739 --> 00:58:34.739
But, you know, if you pull out your hangnails. pleasant.

859
00:59:01.800 --> 00:59:05.340
Well, that's all the time we have for this week and for this season.

860
00:59:05.400 --> 00:59:16.079
We'll be back later in the year to consider Terry Nation's contribution to our favourite television program in 500 year diary, season 5, Turanium Core.

861
00:59:16.139 --> 00:59:35.280
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us on our website, 500yearDiary.com, where you'll find our social media links as well as links to all of our other podcasts, including the entirety of flights or entirety, which comprises every episode of our 4 Doctor Who podcasts.

862
00:59:35.340 --> 00:59:45.480
Until next time, remember that if you lead a wicked life during your time on Earth, you'll be forced to atone for your sins by going on a date with Russell Tovey.

863
00:59:45.539 --> 00:59:47.519
So be warned.

864
00:59:47.579 --> 00:59:49.860
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

865
00:59:50.219 --> 00:59:52.440
See you soon.

866
01:00:04.500 --> 01:00:09.659
That was 500 year diary, starring Todd Bealby, Nathan Bottomley and Adam Richard.

867
01:00:09.719 --> 01:00:11.699
The theme was composed by Cameron Lamb.

868
01:00:11.760 --> 01:00:18.659
This episode, What the World Is Like, was recorded on the 28th of March 2026, and released on the 12th of April.

869
01:00:19.019 --> 01:00:27.539
Thank you all for joining us for season 4 of 500-year diary and particular thanks to those people who joined us on the sofa of reasonable comfort.

870
01:00:27.599 --> 01:00:32.880
Melvin Peña, Johnny Spandral, Kevin Bernard, Fiona Tomney, and Adam Richard.

871
01:00:32.940 --> 01:00:34.500
We'll see you in season five.

872
01:00:49.559 --> 01:00:59.579
But again, back to you saying about Peter Capelli is just seeing him in this role, but having now seen him in 3 years of Drop 2. how impressive he is.

873
01:00:59.639 --> 01:01:03.420
Yet again, you know, in something that's completely different to the doctor.

874
01:01:03.480 --> 01:01:06.239
Have you watched the show with him and Kush Jumbo?

875
01:01:06.300 --> 01:01:08.460
I think it's called criminal record.

876
01:01:08.519 --> 01:01:09.000
Record?

877
01:01:09.000 --> 01:01:10.619
They're both so great.

878
01:01:10.679 --> 01:01:12.719
It is like they're circling each other.

879
01:01:12.780 --> 01:01:14.039
It's on Netflix.

880
01:01:14.099 --> 01:01:15.659
Oh, Apple TV.

881
01:01:15.719 --> 01:01:16.260
Apple TV?

882
01:01:16.380 --> 01:01:16.679
right.

883
01:01:16.739 --> 01:01:20.400
It's like 8 episodes or something or 6 it's not very long and it's police.

884
01:01:20.460 --> 01:01:21.539
It's a police.

885
01:01:22.079 --> 01:01:31.079
Yeah, detective, all kind of thing, but there's a thing in the past that Capaldi's character is done and you're never really sure and there might be some racism and it's all...

886
01:01:31.139 --> 01:01:35.280
Yeah, it's, but you just like, he's so great.

887
01:01:35.340 --> 01:01:48.300
Like, he's this kind of proud character who's a bit downtrodden, who's trying to do the right thing, but is also messed up a lot and he's so good at having all of that going on.

888
01:01:48.360 --> 01:01:51.420
Whereas Barriman's like, I'm wearing a coat.

889
01:01:52.199 --> 01:01:53.880
Yeah, yeah.

890
01:01:53.940 --> 01:01:55.320
That's it.

891
01:01:55.320 --> 01:01:57.300
And probably a wig.

892
01:01:57.360 --> 01:01:59.820
Oh yeah, that hair is too much.

893
01:02:03.719 --> 01:02:07.980
But you know who I'd love to see back on Telly, and that's Eve Miles.

894
01:02:08.039 --> 01:02:10.260
Oh, yeah, she's in the moment.

895
01:02:10.320 --> 01:02:14.219
It's on Stan with David Morris, the episode.

896
01:02:14.280 --> 01:02:14.699
Wow.

897
01:02:14.699 --> 01:02:14.940
Wow.

898
01:02:15.000 --> 01:02:15.300
Yeah.

899
01:02:15.360 --> 01:02:17.280
She's alarmingly blonde in it.

900
01:02:17.340 --> 01:02:21.239
Alarmingly blonde and apparently he's a really complex character.

901
01:02:21.300 --> 01:02:22.800
I've not seen it but I really want to.

902
01:02:22.860 --> 01:02:27.780
And she was great in that, um, was it the 2nd season of Broadchurch?

903
01:02:27.840 --> 01:02:31.019
Like the only good thing in that 2nd season of Broadchurch.

904
01:02:31.739 --> 01:02:34.199
Oh, God, I don't even think I got to it.

905
01:02:34.260 --> 01:02:38.639
They gave they did give Olivia Coleman a lot of...

906
01:02:38.699 --> 01:02:42.480
It's just like, how can we resolve this mystery?

907
01:02:42.539 --> 01:02:47.340
in a way that gives Olivia Coleman the most opportunities to do acting.

908
01:02:47.400 --> 01:02:48.539
Oh, she's so great.

909
01:02:48.599 --> 01:02:49.440
She's so good.

910
01:02:49.500 --> 01:02:50.639
That's such a terrible show.

911
01:02:50.699 --> 01:02:55.139
It's awful But it's well cast again.

912
01:02:55.199 --> 01:03:01.139
But here, you know, this is by far the best season of Torchwood.

913
01:03:01.199 --> 01:03:01.739
Yeah.

914
01:03:01.739 --> 01:03:02.639
Oh, yeah.

915
01:03:02.699 --> 01:03:03.480
It's a proper thing.

916
01:03:03.539 --> 01:03:07.860
And like, I think it's like, I think it's like a season 7 Doctor Who as well.

917
01:03:07.920 --> 01:03:14.400
You know, one of the things about Doctor Who being like 45 minute adventures is that you never get to spend time with the regular cast.

918
01:03:14.460 --> 01:03:16.079
Now we've got this massive regular cast.

919
01:03:16.139 --> 01:03:16.920
We know all of them.

920
01:03:16.980 --> 01:03:19.079
They're all interesting to watch.

921
01:03:19.199 --> 01:03:20.400
They can each anchor a scene.

922
01:03:20.460 --> 01:03:24.239
We have whole scenes with just Alice, you know, and she's tremendous.

923
01:03:24.300 --> 01:03:27.539
And you never get to do that in Doctor Who.

924
01:03:27.599 --> 01:03:30.599
So it just felt like it felt like a throwback.

925
01:03:30.659 --> 01:03:31.980
It felt like the pertu era.

926
01:03:32.039 --> 01:03:37.920
Yeah, it felt like old school Doctor Who, when you have six half hour episodes and you got to know these people.

927
01:03:37.980 --> 01:03:39.539
Sure, none of them made it to the final episode.

928
01:03:40.500 --> 01:03:43.139
Horrifying rocks too, on my face.

929
01:03:43.199 --> 01:03:44.940
Everyone died.

930
01:03:45.059 --> 01:03:46.079
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

931
01:03:46.079 --> 01:03:47.400
Hated Adelaide, but you know.

932
01:03:47.400 --> 01:03:49.679
But yeah, yeah.

933
01:03:49.739 --> 01:03:53.400
Like, I think that's, like, and so I think that's why that's so good.

934
01:03:53.460 --> 01:04:00.719
And I think the next year, like, um, uh, Miracle Day has an incredible strong hawk, like a great hook.

935
01:04:00.780 --> 01:04:01.739
And some great actors.

936
01:04:01.860 --> 01:04:02.820
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

937
01:04:02.880 --> 01:04:04.800
And they kill off all the great females.

938
01:04:04.920 --> 01:04:07.139
Never be a doctor in torture.

939
01:04:07.199 --> 01:04:08.099
Just say that.

940
01:04:08.159 --> 01:04:09.360
The 3rd doctor.

941
01:04:09.420 --> 01:04:10.800
Yeah, Vera.

942
01:04:10.860 --> 01:04:12.539
In that incredible.

943
01:04:12.599 --> 01:04:13.500
That's an incredible.

944
01:04:13.559 --> 01:04:18.239
There are incredible moments in the next season, but it goes to Helena.

945
01:04:18.300 --> 01:04:28.019
I think I think, again, it's the same, the advantage that this has over Miracle Day and over war between, I think, is that it's 5 episodes over 5 days.

946
01:04:28.079 --> 01:04:34.619
And so it has that incredible propulsiveness, but just that Aristotelian unity.

947
01:04:34.679 --> 01:04:37.199
Like it's all about a particular week.

948
01:04:37.260 --> 01:04:40.619
Like a very bad week that everyone's having.

949
01:04:40.679 --> 01:04:42.780
Yeah, you don't have those gaps in time.

950
01:04:42.840 --> 01:04:43.619
No.

951
01:04:43.619 --> 01:04:45.840
But also too, it's not American.

952
01:04:45.900 --> 01:04:46.500
No offence.

953
01:04:46.559 --> 01:04:49.199
But I think that does affect.

954
01:04:49.260 --> 01:04:50.579
Miracle Day.

955
01:04:50.639 --> 01:04:52.800
I mean, we love American genre TV.

956
01:04:52.860 --> 01:04:55.019
And we were watching a stack of it at the time.

957
01:04:55.079 --> 01:05:07.320
And, you know, it meant that we had John DeLancey and our visitor and Jane Spenson writing episodes and stuff, which was, you know, she writes maybe the best episode, I think.

958
01:05:07.380 --> 01:05:09.239
And so all of that stuff's kind of good.

959
01:05:09.300 --> 01:05:10.980
It was too many.

960
01:05:11.039 --> 01:05:12.300
It was trying to do too long.

961
01:05:12.360 --> 01:05:20.820
Yeah, it was it was before we hit this weird thing where they were like, oh, maybe we don't need to do 13 episodes of everything.

962
01:05:20.880 --> 01:05:22.139
We don't need to do 10 episodes.

963
01:05:22.320 --> 01:05:24.420
It's meant to be six.

964
01:05:24.539 --> 01:05:25.199
That's fine.

965
01:05:25.380 --> 01:05:29.639
Yeah, but 10 wasn't enough for the kids in space.

966
01:05:29.699 --> 01:05:30.420
No.

967
01:05:30.539 --> 01:05:34.440
Yeah, Starfleet 902 when I was, people been calling it.

968
01:05:34.500 --> 01:05:36.300
I'm still sad about that.

969
01:05:36.360 --> 01:05:36.780
Yeah.