WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 09:17:46 1 00:00:33.659 --> 00:00:44.399 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to 500 year diary, the only Doctor Who podcast that thinks it's about time they cleaned up that dreadful mess at Mermaid Key. 2 00:00:44.880 --> 00:00:46.619 I'm Nathan. 3 00:00:46.679 --> 00:00:47.820 I'm Fiona. 4 00:00:47.880 --> 00:00:50.280 I'm Peter, and I'm Todd. 5 00:00:50.340 --> 00:00:54.060 It's Thursday the ninth of July 2009. 6 00:00:54.299 --> 00:01:09.299 It's been just 23 hours since the 456 unveiled their Amazon wish list, and tonight, well over 6000000 people have tuned in to watch the Prime Minister chewing his lip, while his mouse pointer hovers over the buy now button. 7 00:01:09.359 --> 00:01:13.739 It's time to watch Torchwood, Children of Earth, day four. 8 00:01:48.359 --> 00:02:01.439 All right, so we open with 1965 Scotland, and this is really the moment where the first of the two plot threads gets resolved, isn't it? 9 00:02:01.500 --> 00:02:03.420 We've had 2 plot threads. 10 00:02:03.480 --> 00:02:06.359 We have why the children behaving like this. 11 00:02:06.420 --> 00:02:09.900 But the other one is, why is everyone trying to kill Jack? 12 00:02:10.020 --> 00:02:13.080 Apart from the obvious reason that he's played by John Barriman. 13 00:02:13.139 --> 00:02:15.240 Those kids are just watched the web planet. 14 00:02:15.300 --> 00:02:15.900 They were ready to die. 15 00:02:19.560 --> 00:02:25.259 I think they might have just actually watched episode one of the Dale X Master plan, perhaps. 16 00:02:25.319 --> 00:02:27.479 Yeah, we're all children these days. 17 00:02:28.020 --> 00:02:29.580 You know what? 18 00:02:29.639 --> 00:02:33.300 I can't believe they talk about the Indonesian flu and killing 25 million. 19 00:02:33.360 --> 00:02:34.500 Like, this is all pre-COVID. 20 00:02:34.560 --> 00:02:36.360 It's just such a coincidence. 21 00:02:36.479 --> 00:02:38.460 Yeah, it is pretty amazing, isn't it? 22 00:02:38.520 --> 00:02:40.080 So we've seen this scene before. 23 00:02:40.139 --> 00:02:49.020 We saw it at the beginning of episode one and we saw some flashbacks last night when Clem started to remember what was kind of happening. 24 00:02:49.080 --> 00:02:51.780 But now we see it right from the beginning, don't we? 25 00:02:51.840 --> 00:02:53.879 And we see it before the children are involved. 26 00:02:53.939 --> 00:03:01.979 We see all of the adults who are killed, like those other 3 adults that are killed at the same time is Jack is killed. 27 00:03:01.979 --> 00:03:04.860 And we see what's really going on. 28 00:03:04.919 --> 00:03:07.680 And we're presented with a trolly problem, I think. 29 00:03:07.740 --> 00:03:13.020 It's 25000000 people or the lives of 12 children. 30 00:03:13.319 --> 00:03:18.240 This is why I don't particularly rate the way that this story plays out. 31 00:03:18.300 --> 00:03:27.900 I think it's got very good atmospherics, but at heart it is just the trolly problem, and we've seen that so many times in drama that it didn't really have much effect on me. discuss. 32 00:03:28.199 --> 00:03:33.360 Well, I think we'll talk more about the trolly problem next week because that's obviously a thing. 33 00:03:33.360 --> 00:03:41.879 And at the very end of this episode, the trolly problem becomes 67000000000 people or 35000000 children. 34 00:03:41.879 --> 00:03:47.819 And that seems worse for some reason than what happened in 1965. 35 00:03:48.180 --> 00:03:57.060 And then eventually it becomes one child and 67000000000 people and that's the trolly problem that we presented within tomorrow nights episode. 36 00:03:57.120 --> 00:03:58.680 But what's the solution? 37 00:03:58.800 --> 00:04:11.520 Well, in fact, what the solution always is in Doctor Who, because Doctor Who doesn't subscribe to the consequentialist morality that says, well, it's got to be the best outcome for the best number of people. 38 00:04:11.580 --> 00:04:16.500 And we have Yanto, I actually say, an injury to one is an injury to all. 39 00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:22.800 There's no injury that you can inflict on some people that doesn't in some way affect everyone else. 40 00:04:22.860 --> 00:04:33.720 And so what Doctor Who does is it always creates an opportunity for the doctor to refuse the morality of the of the trolly problem. 41 00:04:33.779 --> 00:04:34.680 Oh, he stops the train. 42 00:04:34.740 --> 00:04:35.459 Yeah. 43 00:04:35.459 --> 00:04:39.540 Just finds a cunning plan to somehow stop the train so nobody dies. 44 00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:40.980 Exactly. 45 00:04:41.040 --> 00:04:44.339 And that's kind of what Yanto says to Jack, isn't it? 46 00:04:44.399 --> 00:04:48.120 Like Yanto says the jack I know would have stood up against this. 47 00:04:48.180 --> 00:04:53.279 And then later when Jack and Yanto get into the car, Jack says to Yanto, let's go and stand up to this. 48 00:04:53.339 --> 00:04:59.579 Like he kind of accepts that the trolly problem is an unacceptable framing. 49 00:04:59.639 --> 00:05:06.360 And I think what's really good about this is that it actually plays with all of that stuff. 50 00:05:06.420 --> 00:05:09.300 So Jack tries to stand up. 51 00:05:09.360 --> 00:05:35.699 He refuses the trolly problem framing of the situation, and this episode, and what I think makes this maybe the best episode of the week of the run, is that it looks like they're going to win at the end of episode 4, and there's all these little triumphant punch the air moments for the audience, as we see Torchwood, finally fighting back, and of course, it doesn't work. 52 00:05:35.759 --> 00:05:40.500 And so next week, Jack has no choice. 53 00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:59.939 But to accept the trolly problem framing, and he gets a trolly problem where it's one life up against 67000000000 lives, but it's the life of his own grandchild and the destruction of his relationship with his daughter that is the price that he has to pay. 54 00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:01.199 Yeah, yeah. 55 00:06:01.259 --> 00:06:04.079 They make it explicit in the drama, don't they? 56 00:06:04.139 --> 00:06:16.920 They say that when the doctor isn't there, when he doesn't drop down from space and solve things for them, then they have to accept the framing, they things go awry and so they have to make the hard choices because the doctor isn't there to save the situation. 57 00:06:16.980 --> 00:06:28.560 And in fact, the only time, really, when the trolly problem kind of works in Doctor Who is, when it's someone who willingly sacrifices themselves to save other people. 58 00:06:28.620 --> 00:06:32.519 And sometimes that's even the doctor, of course, because he can regenerate. 59 00:06:32.579 --> 00:06:40.680 But the idea that the doctor gives his own life to save people or, you know, that Galloway, gives his life to save people or whatever. 60 00:06:40.740 --> 00:06:46.740 But that's not what happens here because anyway, we're getting ahead of ourselves, I think. 61 00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:55.199 Jack doesn't come off at all well here, like with the kids. saying that it's an adventure and he's really awful. 62 00:06:55.259 --> 00:06:59.100 And the 456 don't take 12 children. 63 00:06:59.160 --> 00:06:59.639 They only take 11. 64 00:06:59.879 --> 00:07:02.579 Yeah. which adds into the situation. 65 00:07:02.639 --> 00:07:06.600 Maybe they're back because they didn't get that one as well, even though it's not explicitly stated anyway. 66 00:07:06.660 --> 00:07:08.459 It's 9% better than their original. 67 00:07:08.579 --> 00:07:21.660 But it's Gwen who says to Jack, this was a protection racket, and you must have known that they would be back, you know, and he said, well, we had 44 years. 68 00:07:21.720 --> 00:07:26.819 Yeah, 44 years to come up with a solution and they just kind of pretended it didn't happen. 69 00:07:27.000 --> 00:07:43.740 My problem with was with the crazy evil ice agents that were going around trying to kill Jack and everybody else. because it became clear that they didn't really know what Jack's involvement was and what had actually happened and about the children towards the end of episode four. 70 00:07:43.800 --> 00:07:50.100 So I thought, well, why were you so psychotically hell bent on just murdering all these people in cold blood? 71 00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:56.759 Like, I couldn't see like why anyone would want to actually do that and take such pleasure in doing it. 72 00:07:56.819 --> 00:08:07.079 Yeah, I mean, that whole plot there gives us space to have exciting things happen while we wait for the four, five, 6 to arrive. 73 00:08:07.199 --> 00:08:17.819 And so episodes one and 2 are largely about the, like there's the mystery of what the children are doing and why, but that's not the plot that's actually going on. 74 00:08:17.879 --> 00:08:28.800 The plot is the government is out to kill Jack and the members of Torchwood because of the blank page that Capoldi, well, doesn't sign, but gives to Bridget. 75 00:08:28.860 --> 00:08:32.279 And then bitch faces just killing everybody like for 4 episodes. 76 00:08:32.340 --> 00:08:33.059 Yeah. 77 00:08:33.059 --> 00:08:33.659 Yeah. 78 00:08:33.720 --> 00:08:37.980 And the great thing about this episode is, and her name's Johnson, I think. 79 00:08:38.100 --> 00:08:40.200 But do they actually say that anywhere? 80 00:08:40.259 --> 00:08:41.100 Like maybe once. 81 00:08:41.159 --> 00:08:42.120 Maybe once. 82 00:08:42.179 --> 00:08:49.620 I didn't even, I was trying to hear her name and I was looking in the, you know, the credits and I'm going, I just kept calling you the bitch face all the time, like anxious in black. 83 00:08:49.679 --> 00:08:51.299 She says killing people off left, right and centre. 84 00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:52.080 What is her motivation? 85 00:08:52.139 --> 00:08:54.120 Is she going to get away with this, you know? 86 00:08:54.179 --> 00:08:57.960 But she actually is on our side by the end of this. 87 00:08:58.019 --> 00:09:00.240 And that's the really great moment. 88 00:09:00.299 --> 00:09:11.879 Like, it's not just that this 1st plot gets resolved when Jack is revealed to have given the kids to the 456 back in 1965. 89 00:09:12.120 --> 00:09:14.279 And I'd actually forgotten that too. 90 00:09:14.340 --> 00:09:15.899 I'd forgotten that point. 91 00:09:15.960 --> 00:09:33.299 In fact, you know, the way that you talk about it, Todd, where we've talked about the way that the show, and it's particularly next week's episode, the show lands on drug use as a metaphor for what the 456 are doing to the children. 92 00:09:33.360 --> 00:09:42.419 But there's a real sense in which the metaphor is paedophilia, where they're abusing the children in order to get physical pleasure. 93 00:09:42.600 --> 00:09:45.179 Yeah, in order to get satisfaction. 94 00:09:45.240 --> 00:09:49.379 And so, and that paedophilia thing keeps coming up. 95 00:09:49.440 --> 00:09:55.440 Yanto gets called a pervert when he tries to talk to a little girl in the playground. 96 00:09:55.440 --> 00:09:56.460 Which is very ill advised. 97 00:09:56.519 --> 00:09:57.600 Yeah, yeah. 98 00:09:57.659 --> 00:10:03.779 But here you've got Jack saying, come with me, I'm going to take you on a lovely adventure. 99 00:10:03.899 --> 00:10:13.259 And so his, you know, involvement here is like a creepy pedo, you know, like luring children away. 100 00:10:13.320 --> 00:10:19.919 And so it's really, really, like, it's not just that he's killing the children, but he's doing it in this really creepy way. 101 00:10:19.980 --> 00:10:23.580 He's preying on vulnerable children who have no one to care about them. 102 00:10:23.580 --> 00:10:33.120 And he, he, like, with Clem, he touches the back of Clem's neck and puts his hand on Clem's shoulder in order to encourage him to go there. 103 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:38.820 Like, there's a lot of physical tenderness between him and Clem in that in that flashback scene. 104 00:10:38.879 --> 00:10:41.820 It's really, really brutally hard to what? 105 00:10:41.879 --> 00:11:00.659 It is, it's quite known. squirmy to watch and and that whole like come on a let's come on an exciting adventure like that's the impression I got as well that it very much is a child sexual abuse kind of opening line and yeah, I've had a man say that to me when I was a teenager. 106 00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:01.559 Come outside. 107 00:11:01.620 --> 00:11:03.360 I've got something exciting to show you. 108 00:11:03.419 --> 00:11:04.860 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 109 00:11:04.919 --> 00:11:05.279 That's right. 110 00:11:05.340 --> 00:11:14.879 That's what we were always told as kids, as members of Gen X, you know, that someone would turn up to our school in a van and say, you know, come with me, I want to show you a puppy. 111 00:11:14.940 --> 00:11:18.840 Like, that was absolutely how that was frightening. ice cream. 112 00:11:18.899 --> 00:11:19.919 I'm gonna have ice cream. 113 00:11:19.980 --> 00:11:21.059 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 114 00:11:21.120 --> 00:11:25.259 I wouldn't have cared to have known what John Barriman would have splattered all over the inside of the street. 115 00:11:34.320 --> 00:11:42.960 Even without knowing what happens at the end of episode five, I found him very unlikeable throughout the whole rewatching. 116 00:11:43.019 --> 00:11:45.659 I didn't actually watch episode 5 this time. 117 00:11:45.720 --> 00:11:47.820 I just went, no, I've made it to episode four. 118 00:11:47.879 --> 00:11:50.820 Like, I don't know that I need that extra trauma. 119 00:11:50.879 --> 00:11:53.759 I employed the same philosophy with the dominators. 120 00:11:54.779 --> 00:11:58.860 It's like, yeah, I don't need that at the time in my life. 121 00:11:58.919 --> 00:12:03.000 But yeah, I found him quite unlikeable throughout the thing. 122 00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:09.120 But I also found he's, I didn't particularly bond with his daughter either. 123 00:12:09.179 --> 00:12:12.539 I'm not sure whether it's I just didn't like her hair. 124 00:12:12.600 --> 00:12:14.279 That sounds like a good thing to say. 125 00:12:14.340 --> 00:12:16.919 She had her Caroline Ford hair happening. 126 00:12:16.980 --> 00:12:17.580 I thought. 127 00:12:17.639 --> 00:12:21.539 Yeah, it was a bit kind of, I found a hairstyle very jarring. 128 00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:28.860 But no, I didn't find her, especially somebody that I sort of really sort of liked or sympathised with. 129 00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:31.559 Yanto's sister was just gorgeous. 130 00:12:31.620 --> 00:12:32.220 Yeah. 131 00:12:32.220 --> 00:12:45.899 We have raved about the act of who plays Alice earlier on. this season, and I think she was fantastic, like in last night's episode where she smacks the guy in the face with a chopping board and, you know, threatens Johnson with a gun. 132 00:12:45.960 --> 00:12:46.799 All that's pretty gray. 133 00:12:46.860 --> 00:12:48.600 I think she's terrific. 134 00:12:48.659 --> 00:12:54.480 But she's not necessarily warm. up to that point where she's actually threatened. 135 00:12:54.539 --> 00:12:55.500 Yeah. 136 00:12:55.500 --> 00:12:57.299 I mean, I like a performance all the way through. 137 00:12:57.360 --> 00:13:07.559 I'm just saying, I like the character more in these back 2 episodes than I do earlier on when her family is under threat and what Jack is doing is just awful. 138 00:13:07.620 --> 00:13:10.200 And just to go back to some of the things that you've been saying. 139 00:13:10.259 --> 00:13:12.360 It is so disturbing to watch. 140 00:13:12.419 --> 00:13:15.840 I find this just so icky the whole way through. 141 00:13:15.899 --> 00:13:21.000 And when that poor child is revealed in the 456 puppet child. 142 00:13:21.059 --> 00:13:23.940 Yeah, like, you know, the sky is full of diamonds or whatever. 143 00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:26.039 It's just so sickly and gross. 144 00:13:26.100 --> 00:13:32.399 Like, it's just so disturbing and everything is just, it just goes back to Jack's character. 145 00:13:32.460 --> 00:13:35.580 He's really not a nice person like in this. 146 00:13:35.639 --> 00:13:38.039 And how can you have a lead that's not a nice person. 147 00:13:38.100 --> 00:13:38.820 You know what I mean? 148 00:13:38.879 --> 00:13:45.779 Like, I know the doctor's not a nice person in Doctor Who sometimes, but to this level, they really are sending him down a certain path. 149 00:13:45.840 --> 00:13:47.460 It's it's that thing. 150 00:13:47.519 --> 00:13:56.279 Peter, you complain about the early portrayal of Capaldi's doctor in season eight, you know, she's my carer, she cares, so I don't have to. 151 00:13:56.340 --> 00:14:00.480 But there's that line in this episode, isn't there where... 152 00:14:00.480 --> 00:14:07.980 That's why they chose Jack because he wouldn't, he wouldn't care that the children were being sent off to this awful, awful fate. 153 00:14:08.039 --> 00:14:08.340 Yeah. 154 00:14:08.399 --> 00:14:10.860 Yeah, and he doesn't know what the fate is. 155 00:14:10.919 --> 00:14:15.360 He doesn't know exactly what it is, but he does know that it's not paradise because there's no such thing. 156 00:14:15.419 --> 00:14:20.220 I think, like, that's perhaps the chief problem of torchwood. 157 00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:24.059 Partly it is that just John Barrowman isn't a very strong actor. 158 00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:32.700 And so the very, very emotional scenes, for me at least, don't land at all, but also that his character is massively unlikeable in the show. 159 00:14:32.759 --> 00:14:38.100 And I remember the experience of seeing him again in utopia. 160 00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:47.159 And even having him say, oh, that's right, you know, this is what it used to be like because he's really enjoying himself, the doctors around. 161 00:14:47.220 --> 00:14:51.659 Martha's there, they're running from the future kind, like they're having fun. 162 00:14:51.720 --> 00:14:59.399 And it was such a relief after just the misery of watching him kind of mooning his way through those 1st 2 seasons. 163 00:14:59.460 --> 00:15:01.500 Could you choose another? 164 00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:10.620 I mean, we're talking around the problem slightly in that Captain Jack is a sporting character and he works as supporting colour. 165 00:15:10.679 --> 00:15:15.840 He doesn't work as a lead because he doesn't have the necessary depth of a lead character. 166 00:15:15.899 --> 00:15:16.740 So what they do. 167 00:15:16.799 --> 00:15:25.500 The reason why Torchwood, as a rule, is not that satisfactory, and why children of Earth works better than the others, is that lead is not Jack, it's Gwen. 168 00:15:25.559 --> 00:15:26.039 Yeah. 169 00:15:26.100 --> 00:15:26.759 Yeah. 170 00:15:26.820 --> 00:15:28.019 God, she's good. 171 00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:28.980 She is really good. 172 00:15:29.279 --> 00:15:31.799 We'll talk about it at the end of the episode. 173 00:15:31.860 --> 00:15:37.860 We'll talk a little bit more about how this episode ends, but I think Gwen is what actually lands the whole thing. 174 00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:40.980 But there's so many great actors in this. 175 00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:42.240 Yeah. 176 00:15:42.240 --> 00:15:46.679 You know, you don't like Johnson, but I actually think she gives an incredible performance. 177 00:15:46.740 --> 00:15:48.539 No, I don't like the character. 178 00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:53.279 Like, because she's just like killing everybody for no reason, but she's really good. 179 00:15:53.340 --> 00:15:59.340 Alice, again, you know, I said I like her in the last 2 episodes, but you know, you look at Reese. 180 00:15:59.399 --> 00:16:03.720 You look at Capaldi, you look at his secretary, whose name I always forget. 181 00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:06.600 Bridget, the prime minister is good, Bridget, the prime minister. 182 00:16:06.659 --> 00:16:07.200 Yep. 183 00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:08.340 Rhiannon. 184 00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:09.480 Yanto sister. 185 00:16:09.539 --> 00:16:10.980 Oh, and her husband. 186 00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:12.000 Yeah, yeah, Johnny. 187 00:16:12.059 --> 00:16:15.480 Who you think, oh, yeah, he's going to be a real, you know, whatever. 188 00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:16.559 But he actually comes through. 189 00:16:16.620 --> 00:16:17.820 Yeah, yeah. 190 00:16:17.879 --> 00:16:19.620 And of course, Lois, you know? 191 00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:20.820 She's great. 192 00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:21.779 They're all great. 193 00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:23.879 And it just shows up. 194 00:16:24.419 --> 00:16:26.159 Barriman. 195 00:16:26.220 --> 00:16:27.360 I'm sorry it does. 196 00:16:27.419 --> 00:16:28.379 Yeah, it does. 197 00:16:28.500 --> 00:16:28.799 It does. 198 00:16:28.860 --> 00:16:29.220 I agree. 199 00:16:29.279 --> 00:16:31.139 Eros Lynn always casts swell. 200 00:16:31.200 --> 00:16:33.360 And so this has a magnificent cast. 201 00:16:33.419 --> 00:16:38.820 Susan Brown, who plays Bridget, is amazing and does so much with so little. 202 00:16:38.940 --> 00:16:46.139 And to get someone like Kush Jumbo in her earlier career, is just, you know, quite a find. 203 00:16:46.200 --> 00:16:47.100 She's amazing in this. 204 00:16:47.159 --> 00:16:49.559 There's that moment, the one big punch the air moment. 205 00:16:49.620 --> 00:16:59.759 And we're supposed to, you know, we're relieved that Torchwood, uh, like Torchwood has this big heist thing at the end and we'll talk more about it, perhaps a little bit later, but they have a plan. 206 00:16:59.820 --> 00:17:04.500 It's not revealed to us beforehand, and it seems to go incredibly well. 207 00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:06.720 It seems to be really, really successful. 208 00:17:06.779 --> 00:17:14.160 And it's the moment where Lois, who is just an ordinary person and she puts a hand up and says, I'm a voter, you know, I'm in this room. 209 00:17:14.220 --> 00:17:15.779 I have something to say. 210 00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:18.779 And then she she gives her big speech. 211 00:17:18.779 --> 00:17:23.099 And then she goes, um, uh, and I guess that's it. 212 00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:29.640 She doesn't have a proper ending to the speech because she's not the doctor and she's not Jack. 213 00:17:29.700 --> 00:17:35.460 And then she just does this tiny smile of triumph, which is so exciting and so well judged. 214 00:17:35.519 --> 00:17:37.200 She's magnificently good. 215 00:17:37.259 --> 00:17:40.680 But they're both, both secretaries. are so good. 216 00:17:40.740 --> 00:17:46.440 And because Bridget's not given a lot to do. her desk stare at lowest all the way through all the way through. 217 00:17:46.500 --> 00:17:49.319 And of course, we'll talk about her moment of tribe, which is next week. 218 00:17:49.380 --> 00:17:50.099 Yeah, yeah. 219 00:17:50.099 --> 00:17:54.779 But she's just so good in those small roles and you're only as good as your weakest link. 220 00:17:54.839 --> 00:17:57.000 Yeah. and it's Barryman. 221 00:17:58.680 --> 00:18:00.480 No, it is. 222 00:18:00.539 --> 00:18:05.220 It is, but, you know, that whole cabinet meeting. 223 00:18:05.279 --> 00:18:06.960 I mean, that's too fair to talk about that. 224 00:18:07.019 --> 00:18:08.279 Yeah, yeah. 225 00:18:08.339 --> 00:18:13.079 I think that's in a way really central to the entire show, isn't it? 226 00:18:13.140 --> 00:18:14.579 Maybe we do talk about that. 227 00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:23.339 So that meeting, it's the Cobra meeting, which is a real thing that actually happens when there is some kind of crisis. 228 00:18:23.400 --> 00:18:27.119 There was all sorts of news reports about it, for instance, during COVID. 229 00:18:27.180 --> 00:18:31.380 So it is a real thing, but it's the speech by Denise. 230 00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:49.200 Denise Riley, who will, it seems at the end of tomorrow night's episode, be taking over as Prime Minister, perhaps, or at least in a position to kind of run the Prime Minister because she knows where all the bodies are buried. 231 00:18:49.740 --> 00:18:53.579 Basically, Boris Johnson, let them die and then take over as prime minister. 232 00:18:53.640 --> 00:19:00.539 Well, I mean, we have, you know, we have a green at a time when Brown is actually the Prime Minister. 233 00:19:01.140 --> 00:19:10.140 So it's that incredible speech that everyone remembers about what the school league tables are for, that sat around the table. 234 00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:17.880 They have decided that nice people like us are not going to have to have our children taken away. 235 00:19:17.940 --> 00:19:33.660 And because it's 10% rather than like 50% or something like that, we can just ensure that the people that we don't know, the people who are not like us, the people that we don't care about, other people who suffer at this point. 236 00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:43.559 And it's that thing which she says, which I just think is amazing where she says, God knows we've tried and we've failed. 237 00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:51.299 Now, I don't know whether she means we've tried to persuade the 456 to be happy with a smaller number of children. 238 00:19:51.420 --> 00:19:53.339 What was it going to be? 239 00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:56.519 It was going to be 6700 children. 240 00:19:56.579 --> 00:19:59.460 We tried, but they wouldn't agree to that. 241 00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:10.920 But I think what she means is that there's an underclass in England that we've tried to help, but they just won't be helped and they're the ones that are on benefits. 242 00:20:10.980 --> 00:20:12.599 They're the ones that are on the estate. 243 00:20:12.660 --> 00:20:23.160 They're Yanto's family, essentially, and the people whose children are being looked after by Rhiannon in their home, they're the people who we're going to sacrifice. 244 00:20:23.220 --> 00:20:27.299 And that's the way that the British government has historically worked. 245 00:20:27.420 --> 00:20:32.700 Those are the people who suffer the most when we're doing austerity. 246 00:20:32.759 --> 00:20:38.099 Those are the people who Harriet Jones improve the life of during her short prime ministership. 247 00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:46.319 But those are the people that basically, in real, in Britain in real life, other people who are left behind, who we abandon. 248 00:20:46.380 --> 00:20:57.000 So the decision that's being made there, the decision that Denise is being advocated for is, in a way, the decision that the British government makes essentially every day. 249 00:20:57.059 --> 00:20:58.799 And it's brutal. 250 00:20:58.859 --> 00:20:59.940 Like it's so brutal. 251 00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:01.019 Yeah. 252 00:21:01.079 --> 00:21:08.160 Yes, and like that whole sequence with that whole discussion and failed asylum seekers and God, she is good. 253 00:21:08.220 --> 00:21:09.900 She is really, she is really good. 254 00:21:10.019 --> 00:21:10.980 Denise. 255 00:21:10.980 --> 00:21:12.240 Yes, Beavel, Denise. 256 00:21:12.299 --> 00:21:14.160 No, she is really, really good. 257 00:21:14.220 --> 00:21:16.980 It's because the point that she's making. 258 00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:21.180 I'm not saying that it's a good point, but the point that she's making bears thinking about. 259 00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:22.680 It is a moral question. 260 00:21:22.740 --> 00:21:37.619 If you have a plague that's going to wipe out 20% of the world and you get to choose which 20, do you allow it to wipe out doctors and scientists and engineers who might be able to put things together or do you just let it run its course, like the trolly problem? 261 00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:53.700 Yeah, but I mean, I guess that sequence is so repellent because, because we're being presented with that very consequentialist morality, where the people that we deem to be of the most value are the people who are going to survive. 262 00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:59.940 And because we deem valuable, people like us who sit in offices and talk about things. 263 00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:01.319 Do you know what I mean? 264 00:22:01.380 --> 00:22:07.259 Like, they're the ones who are apparently vital. 265 00:22:07.319 --> 00:22:14.279 You know, they do talk about nurses and things like that, but they've described the population as useless. 266 00:22:14.339 --> 00:22:16.380 Remember before we had unemployment. 267 00:22:16.440 --> 00:22:23.279 We had surplus population is what people used to be referred to early in the 20th century. 268 00:22:23.339 --> 00:22:25.859 People who didn't have jobs, they were surplus. 269 00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:27.900 They were unnecessary. 270 00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:48.359 And, you know, like when you think about what Rhiannon is depicted as doing in this episode, which is looking after other people's children so that their parents can go to work doing things like repairing people's cars or driving their buses or doing incredibly emptying their business, for God's sake. 271 00:22:48.420 --> 00:22:49.559 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 272 00:22:49.619 --> 00:22:58.740 You know, like genuinely doing things that actually keep society going, but those are not the people who are valuable because they didn't go to the good schools. 273 00:22:58.799 --> 00:23:07.319 And it's incredible in the post-COVID era, looking back at that, you know, who are the people who are going out and, you know, putting their health at risk. 274 00:23:07.380 --> 00:23:11.279 They were people who did the everyday service jobs so that we needed to keep society going. 275 00:23:11.339 --> 00:23:12.240 Yeah, yeah. 276 00:23:12.299 --> 00:23:25.200 People delivering food or working in Amazon fulfilment houses, like people with crappy jobs, who, you know, were often immigrants or the children of immigrants and they were the people who were keeping things going. 277 00:23:25.559 --> 00:23:30.599 It wasn't the Latin teachers, Todd, who were keeping society going. 278 00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:34.140 You guys would be the 1st on the PR. 279 00:23:34.200 --> 00:23:34.980 I can tell you that. 280 00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:45.900 I do think there is a different moral question over whether you are choosing, which is what you said, Nathan, the most valuable in society, or whether you're choosing the least valuable in society. 281 00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:50.099 Yeah, it's just because that's not an objective measurement. 282 00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:51.119 Do you know what I mean? 283 00:23:51.180 --> 00:23:56.220 We decide the criteria for who are the most valuable and the least valuable. 284 00:23:56.279 --> 00:24:10.019 And they talk initially about it being random, and that seems less objectionable in a way that everyone has an equal chance of suffering from this. 285 00:24:10.019 --> 00:24:21.779 That does seem less obnoxious than no one around this table, our children and grandchildren are not going to be included in this. 286 00:24:21.900 --> 00:24:26.279 The moment that it suddenly people like us aren't going to be included. 287 00:24:26.339 --> 00:24:32.039 There's Denise saying, let's go the whole hog and ensure that people of our social class aren't included. 288 00:24:33.059 --> 00:24:38.880 It's a very disturbing discussion, and it makes you feel uncomfortable. 289 00:24:38.940 --> 00:24:42.480 Yeah, if we're not already uncomfortable with what's happened already in the episode. 290 00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:48.420 That's right And what happens at the end of next week is, of course, it's Denise, who's the last person standing. 291 00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:51.359 She's going to be running Britain going forward. 292 00:24:51.420 --> 00:24:57.779 It's literally the woman who makes that speech about school league tables, who is left in charge at the end. 293 00:24:57.839 --> 00:25:00.420 Why didn't we have a five-part series, Denise? 294 00:25:02.160 --> 00:25:04.859 The war between the land and Denise. 295 00:25:06.660 --> 00:25:09.599 Well, between the lantern, Tiffany. 296 00:25:18.660 --> 00:25:31.019 And that's the reason why it is so uncomfortable in that these are the elected representatives, and although they're doing a heinous thing, that is what they are elected and given the job of doing, deciding these things. 297 00:25:31.079 --> 00:25:36.539 So the fact that they're throwing it around in a meeting is fine, it's the problem is that's where they land. 298 00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:37.680 Yeah, yeah. 299 00:25:37.740 --> 00:25:39.599 It's really brutal too, isn't it? 300 00:25:39.660 --> 00:25:48.960 Like, like, there's a scene too, where Capoldi is in that meeting and for some reason he's sat at the hand of the table like dad, even though he's kind of no one. 301 00:25:49.019 --> 00:25:55.259 And so he's in the middle of the shot with people sitting on either side of the table and just the look on his face. 302 00:25:55.319 --> 00:25:56.279 I mean, it's Capaldi. 303 00:25:56.339 --> 00:26:06.839 He's literally the best actor in the room and he is just, he just looks so disapproving and so, so unimpressed with them. 304 00:26:06.900 --> 00:26:09.660 Can I just say how wonderful he is in this? 305 00:26:09.720 --> 00:26:11.700 Because I haven't met on any episodes yet. 306 00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:13.319 But he's just so effortless, you know? 307 00:26:13.380 --> 00:26:14.880 He just is that character. 308 00:26:14.940 --> 00:26:15.839 Yeah, you know? 309 00:26:15.900 --> 00:26:18.539 It's it's just amazing to watch yet again. 310 00:26:18.599 --> 00:26:22.079 But it's he's the co-lead, isn't he? 311 00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:24.359 Him and Gwen, who split the action between them. 312 00:26:24.420 --> 00:26:26.400 Jack just kind of wanders around in the middle of it. 313 00:26:26.460 --> 00:26:32.400 Except when he's, you know, a corpse in pieces. episode too. 314 00:26:32.460 --> 00:26:34.019 Or, you know, cement block. 315 00:26:34.200 --> 00:26:46.500 I think I've said this before on a podcast with you guys, but the joy of an actor like Capaldi is that he doesn't have to open his mouth for you to know exactly what he's thinking. 316 00:26:46.559 --> 00:26:59.519 Like he just has all the emotions just written over his face in his eyes, in his body language, and that's just what makes him so incredible to watch and such a strong character. 317 00:26:59.579 --> 00:27:17.880 And he's just got, Yeah, there's sort of like, he goes through the whole range of emotions in this, like, there's times where he's looking just really vulnerable and lost, other times where he's just doing that real steely kind of coldness where he's doing things that are just unmentionable. 318 00:27:17.940 --> 00:27:22.440 But, yeah, he's he just is, like you said, he's the best actor in the room. 319 00:27:22.500 --> 00:27:24.779 Like you just, he's amazing to watch. 320 00:27:24.839 --> 00:27:26.819 And he looks so young. 321 00:27:27.299 --> 00:27:31.559 It does. to do with the hair, I think. 322 00:27:31.619 --> 00:27:41.039 This is an incredibly contained performance and I always find it incredible that Capaldi has given 3 major performances in Doctor Who and the Doctor Who universe. 323 00:27:41.160 --> 00:27:49.259 The 1st obviously being the doctor, which is a tour de force, the 2nd being this one, and the 3rd being fires of Pompeii, and they are all completely different performances. 324 00:27:49.319 --> 00:27:52.799 Yeah No, he disappears into those roles. 325 00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:56.519 And, you know, I'm not thinking about the doctor when I see Frobisher. 326 00:27:56.640 --> 00:27:58.799 He is very, very much more contained. 327 00:27:58.859 --> 00:27:59.940 I think he's terrific. 328 00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:02.039 Like just maybe the best thing in it. 329 00:28:02.099 --> 00:28:02.640 Yes. 330 00:28:02.700 --> 00:28:04.980 But what about Trinity Wells? 331 00:28:05.099 --> 00:28:07.380 What was the UK hiding? 332 00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:10.079 God, she's good. forgotten about her. 333 00:28:10.140 --> 00:28:14.460 We thought actually, because she doesn't appear among the newscasters at the beginning. 334 00:28:14.519 --> 00:28:23.640 And of course, it's a very RTD thing to kind of tell the story with this sort of Greek chorus of newscasters, which just sort of works terrifically well. 335 00:28:23.700 --> 00:28:32.519 And we thought that she wasn't in it and I suspected that maybe she's not going to be in it because she's a kids show announcer, you know, like she's in Doctor Who. 336 00:28:32.579 --> 00:28:37.799 And we probably don't want small kids who love Doctor Who necessarily tuning into this. 337 00:28:37.859 --> 00:28:39.599 But I'm really glad she's in it. 338 00:28:39.660 --> 00:28:42.359 Yeah, she's meant to say things like the fat is walking away. 339 00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:47.640 This is written by John Fay. 340 00:28:47.700 --> 00:28:48.359 Yeah. 341 00:28:48.420 --> 00:28:49.680 What has he done? 342 00:28:49.740 --> 00:28:53.759 So Russell had wanted him to do it Doctor Who, but it didn't end up happening. 343 00:28:53.819 --> 00:28:56.759 He wrote episode 2 of this and episode four. 344 00:28:56.819 --> 00:29:00.059 He had a very long career in one of the soaps, I think. 345 00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:05.400 And he's a playwright, like a proper playwright has written things for the theatre. 346 00:29:05.460 --> 00:29:11.099 I think that his 2 episodes are both extremely strong. 347 00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:21.359 I mean, 3 is pivotal in the sense that it introduces the 456 properly, but this is the episode, I think, where the 456 get the biggest run. 348 00:29:21.420 --> 00:29:26.819 I think it very carefully hands off from one major plot to another. 349 00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:35.759 It does that incredible high point where we get all of these hero moments and we think that everything's going to go okay and then everything goes to hell. 350 00:29:35.819 --> 00:29:42.299 Like he actually handles the pace and the ups and downs and stuff just incredibly well, I think. 351 00:29:42.359 --> 00:29:47.099 He's a Russia, I think, who's in sync with Russell style of storytelling. 352 00:29:47.160 --> 00:29:50.339 Of course, Russell had that soap background as well. 353 00:29:50.400 --> 00:29:54.180 And this is family drama at the hearts of it. 354 00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:57.119 I mean, obviously the stakes are much bigger than you would get in soap opera. 355 00:29:57.180 --> 00:29:59.700 But it has that kind of rhythm to it. 356 00:29:59.759 --> 00:30:06.119 And I think unless Russell's done a very heavy rerice on it, they're writers who are simpatico. 357 00:30:06.180 --> 00:30:12.720 Yeah, I mean, I think it is a great shame that we never got to see him in the main show because he is really, really great. 358 00:30:12.779 --> 00:30:15.839 So it's Russell does one, 3 and five. 359 00:30:15.900 --> 00:30:21.960 He does 3 with James Moran who wrote Fires of Pompeii, and then we get John Fay doing 2 and four. 360 00:30:25.019 --> 00:30:28.980 But, you know, last episode we had a lot of foreshadowing from Yanto. 361 00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:32.220 He was talking about like dying and all that sort of stuff. with Jack. 362 00:30:32.279 --> 00:30:38.819 And of course, it happens here, but in the writing, you've got him, you know, saying, I love you to his sister and we love you too. 363 00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:45.839 So all that little stuff's in there that you get something, like there's no, I mean, there's not full closure, but you know, you know what I'm saying? 364 00:30:45.900 --> 00:30:56.819 John's obviously in discussion with Russell thought about these moments have to happen before we actually do get the whole confrontation with the 456 and how that goes to hell in a handbasket. 365 00:30:56.880 --> 00:31:11.759 We'll talk about that, I think, at the end of this episode, but there is a moment where he's on the phone to Rhiannon, and we discover later that he's deliberately giving his position away so that Johnson turns up at the Torchwood warehouse. 366 00:31:11.819 --> 00:31:18.660 But he, he sort of, he says, I love you and I love the kids, and I'm even warming to Johnny. 367 00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:25.440 And then she actually is still on the line after he hangs up and she's going, Yanto, are you there? 368 00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:25.920 Are you there? 369 00:31:26.039 --> 00:31:31.319 Like the last thing that we see her, say to him, is asking him where he is? 370 00:31:31.380 --> 00:31:36.720 And like I just think that that's a beautiful foreshadowing of what's going to happen at the end of the episode. 371 00:31:36.779 --> 00:31:42.779 I think if you're really attentive, that's the point at which you know that he's not going to survive. 372 00:31:42.900 --> 00:32:01.259 Even though we are in the midst of the moment of triumph, where, because that phone call also has Yanto warning, the operative of control, uh, that this is happening, you, you're listening in on this call, it's your children, it's everyone's children at stake here. 373 00:32:01.319 --> 00:32:05.160 You know, like it's a really exciting, like there's a lot of action. 374 00:32:05.220 --> 00:32:07.740 There's a lot of, you know, everyone has their job to do. 375 00:32:07.799 --> 00:32:09.660 Everyone seems to be doing their job very well. 376 00:32:09.720 --> 00:32:12.299 Everything's working at that point in the episode. 377 00:32:12.359 --> 00:32:14.640 We don't know that it's going to end in disaster. 378 00:32:14.819 --> 00:32:18.180 There's that conversation that they always have in Doc 2. 379 00:32:18.299 --> 00:32:23.279 I think we might have touched on this in episode one about the doctor goes on and the companions will die. 380 00:32:23.339 --> 00:32:29.039 And the series is setting up that question with Jack and Yanto. 381 00:32:29.099 --> 00:32:35.519 But you think in the 1st couple of episodes, there's just a generic character question, how will their relationship progress? 382 00:32:35.579 --> 00:32:43.140 I think in episode 4, you start to feel that, oh, there's something to this and the foreboding grows. 383 00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:51.119 I think too, you know, like if you've watched television before, you've got to be aware that there's an hour of stuff that has to happen tomorrow night at 9 PM. 384 00:32:51.180 --> 00:32:57.180 And so they're not going to solve the problem at the end of this episode and spend an hour just kind of faffing or saying goodbye or anything. 385 00:32:57.240 --> 00:33:03.720 So I think you probably are feeling some sense of foreboding, even amidst all of the excitement. 386 00:33:03.779 --> 00:33:06.420 But Fay does try his best to distract you from that. 387 00:33:06.539 --> 00:33:08.460 The foreboding. 388 00:33:08.519 --> 00:33:11.039 I remember watching it, having that foreboding feeling. 389 00:33:11.099 --> 00:33:17.339 But I thought, no, after killing off Tosh and Owen last year, we're not going to have deaths. 390 00:33:17.400 --> 00:33:18.240 They're going to get out of this. 391 00:33:18.299 --> 00:33:19.619 They're all going to get out of it. 392 00:33:19.680 --> 00:33:22.319 So that's what my mindset was, even going into this episode. 393 00:33:22.380 --> 00:33:26.160 And as I said, with Yanto asking questions like, do you think your luck will run out? 394 00:33:26.220 --> 00:33:29.519 You know, I will die of old age or stuff from the previous episode. 395 00:33:29.579 --> 00:33:30.480 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 396 00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:33.900 It's only now that you when I go back and watch it, that I see that foreshadowing. 397 00:33:33.960 --> 00:33:36.299 But I didn't see this foreshadowing here, even with him. 398 00:33:36.359 --> 00:33:38.400 No, I didn't at the time. 399 00:33:38.460 --> 00:33:51.059 And I was exactly like you watching this as well, Todd, that I thought that because Tosh and Owen had died at the end of the previous season, that Yanto was safe, we weren't going to just be left with 2 tortured members at the end of this. 400 00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:55.259 So I was surprised, although maybe I was spoiled. 401 00:33:55.319 --> 00:33:57.240 I can't remember, possibly. 402 00:34:03.660 --> 00:34:06.240 Can we talk about the 456? 403 00:34:06.299 --> 00:34:07.559 Just revolting. 404 00:34:07.619 --> 00:34:09.119 Is this in 2009? 405 00:34:09.179 --> 00:34:11.340 This is back in 965 when they were just the 123. 406 00:34:12.360 --> 00:34:19.679 Well, just all that splushing and sploshing and screeching on the, you know, all that vomit stuff onto the... 407 00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:24.000 I loved the way that that was shot because it never happens in the same scene that the actors are in. 408 00:34:24.059 --> 00:34:27.300 It's always just the same cutaway to the thing, oh, splash, splash. 409 00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:29.340 There's nothing in the white shot. 410 00:34:30.300 --> 00:34:33.780 I mean, it's incredible, isn't it? 411 00:34:33.840 --> 00:34:35.219 Like it's just amazing. 412 00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:56.699 So when we see the rubber puppet child and we have everyone's reaction to that, which I just think is done incredibly well, that moment, it's when Lois starts crying, and when Gwen tells Clem that the thing that's gone wrong with the video on the computer is that is that Lois is crying, like she works it out. 413 00:34:56.760 --> 00:35:04.679 And then you get Frobisher's reaction as well. like Frobisher just turns on the 456 really angrily. 414 00:35:04.739 --> 00:35:09.960 Like, like he really, really chose some fire and that's when the 456 absolutely loses it. 415 00:35:10.019 --> 00:35:13.260 And I don't think, like, I, like, maybe it's vomit. 416 00:35:13.320 --> 00:35:16.320 I think it's, it's, it's like it's crapping on the walls. 417 00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:21.000 And, and, and, like, it's very clear that we want it to be disgusting. 418 00:35:21.059 --> 00:35:24.360 Like, and so it's dripping with mucus. 419 00:35:24.420 --> 00:35:25.920 We don't see it properly. 420 00:35:25.980 --> 00:35:27.659 The shapes are unclear. 421 00:35:27.719 --> 00:35:31.320 The whole kind of, the whole physicality of it is revolting. 422 00:35:31.320 --> 00:35:39.360 And it does that brilliant Doctor Who thing of giving it an incredibly crisp posh voice as well. 423 00:35:39.420 --> 00:35:47.699 This absolute Eldritch horror, this sort of love crafty and octopus thing, but it speaks like it went to a very nice school. 424 00:35:49.500 --> 00:35:51.360 Simon would approve. 425 00:35:51.420 --> 00:35:53.579 Exactly, I'm singing the same thing. 426 00:35:54.420 --> 00:36:03.360 The disgusting image that it put in my mind was going back to the drug analogy with the children, was that kind of, you know, overdose frothing. 427 00:36:03.480 --> 00:36:07.320 Yeah, yeah. just, oh, it's so repellent and visceral. 428 00:36:07.380 --> 00:36:08.340 Yeah, yeah. 429 00:36:08.400 --> 00:36:20.760 Well, when the guy, the hot guy comes out of the tank and they're kind of hosing him down because he's just covered in all of this revolting, like kind of staff, like it's really, really so brutal. 430 00:36:20.820 --> 00:36:25.019 I think it might be the most terrifying Doctor Who monster ever. 431 00:36:25.079 --> 00:36:28.980 Like, I think it might be the most frightening thing that the show has ever created. 432 00:36:29.039 --> 00:36:31.559 And I think keeping it nameless was the right idea. 433 00:36:31.619 --> 00:36:33.300 I think... 434 00:36:33.300 --> 00:36:35.340 I was just thinking back to the band rolls. 435 00:36:35.880 --> 00:36:39.780 The Dolly that Mrs. Farrell's husband. 436 00:36:43.380 --> 00:36:45.719 That was in mind of the slipper. 437 00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:47.820 Go do it. 438 00:36:55.019 --> 00:37:00.659 And the other moment that I really like from the 456 is where everyone sort of left the room. 439 00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:03.780 It's like, it's the night before the big confrontation. 440 00:37:03.840 --> 00:37:09.360 It's actually not very clear how this is day 4 because the night seems to happen in the middle of the episode. 441 00:37:09.420 --> 00:37:12.119 So I kind of lost track of the timing a little bit, but whatever. 442 00:37:12.179 --> 00:37:12.599 It's fine. 443 00:37:12.719 --> 00:37:23.880 When Frobisher presents our compromise proposal of just 6,700 children. 444 00:37:23.940 --> 00:37:26.039 And then he leaves. 445 00:37:26.099 --> 00:37:39.659 He says, that's our final offer, and he leaves, and then it starts whispering, like it starts quietly whispering the number to itself before all the children start saying the number. 446 00:37:39.719 --> 00:37:45.960 And again, they find a new thing, a new terrifying thing for the children to do. 447 00:37:46.019 --> 00:37:47.760 Initially they stop. 448 00:37:47.820 --> 00:37:53.340 Then they speak in unison. then we see them pointing and now we see them. 449 00:37:53.400 --> 00:37:54.480 They're coming now they're here. 450 00:37:54.539 --> 00:37:55.980 Yeah, yeah, yeah. back. 451 00:37:56.039 --> 00:38:00.239 It escalates so wonderfully and this is yet another new thing for the children to do. 452 00:38:00.300 --> 00:38:06.119 And my favourite moment is the moment of comedy where Johnny suggests that maybe they're lottery numbers. 453 00:38:08.280 --> 00:38:10.019 That is funny. 454 00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:11.699 Oh, those children. 455 00:38:11.760 --> 00:38:13.800 All those children in the playground. 456 00:38:13.860 --> 00:38:15.420 Some of them are better than others Yeah. 457 00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:20.219 Well, I think I've said before that I think Misha is absolutely the goat. 458 00:38:20.280 --> 00:38:28.199 She's the best one, the our most valuable player among the children because she has a sort of Beetle brow. 459 00:38:28.260 --> 00:38:31.260 She really is kind of going for it in the best way. 460 00:38:31.320 --> 00:38:31.980 She's awesome. 461 00:38:32.039 --> 00:38:36.480 A lot of those children, Yantu's sister is looking after, could have gone either way. 462 00:38:36.539 --> 00:38:38.579 There was a touch of he got funny eyes now. 463 00:38:39.900 --> 00:38:50.519 But it never quite, never quite tips over. say Can I give the parents' perspective? 464 00:38:50.519 --> 00:38:51.960 Because, um, Yeah, please. 465 00:38:52.019 --> 00:38:58.800 Yeah, I think one of the reasons I got invited on here was I'm the only one who's actually got children. 466 00:38:58.860 --> 00:39:02.460 And tell us, Fiona, which one would you have chosen to give to the 456. 467 00:39:02.639 --> 00:39:04.679 That's the whole thing. 468 00:39:05.099 --> 00:39:08.760 At the time, so this was 2009, wasn't it? 469 00:39:08.820 --> 00:39:16.380 Yeah, so my eldest was 9 and the other one would have been about seven-ish and... 470 00:39:16.440 --> 00:39:18.000 Oh my god, how disturbing. 471 00:39:18.059 --> 00:39:21.239 So they were right at that age where you do have them at home. 472 00:39:21.300 --> 00:39:23.699 You feel incredibly protective of them. 473 00:39:23.760 --> 00:39:34.019 Yeah, you haven't, I haven't, um, rewatched episode 5, but my memory is that when they come and get the kids, that the parents are doing everything that they can. 474 00:39:34.079 --> 00:39:35.579 And absolutely. 475 00:39:35.639 --> 00:39:51.420 Like, if somebody came to take away my children, I would get out of chainsaw to defend them kind of thing, it would be absolutely everything, and they haven't really touched on it, this episode, um, in episode 4 about when it's being pregnant. 476 00:39:51.480 --> 00:40:07.739 But I just remember when I was pregnant, um, yeah, which was like twice, you do feel incredibly protective of, of what's growing inside you and would do anything to sort of make sure that your baby is safe. 477 00:40:07.800 --> 00:40:10.079 Um, I mean, now sort of rewatching. 478 00:40:10.139 --> 00:40:14.039 I didn't find it quite so traumatic because I wasn't quite in that headspace. 479 00:40:14.099 --> 00:40:16.139 Um, you know, my children got older. 480 00:40:16.199 --> 00:40:19.440 I sent them off to boarding school and, you know, like, oh. 481 00:40:19.500 --> 00:40:23.219 And now. redecorated their rooms, that kind of thing. 482 00:40:23.280 --> 00:40:25.800 Now they're adults and yeah, kind of thing. 483 00:40:25.860 --> 00:40:27.239 It's like, oh, well, you're fine. 484 00:40:27.300 --> 00:40:28.380 You've survived. 485 00:40:28.440 --> 00:40:33.599 But at the time, you're in that headspace where you are incredibly protective of them. 486 00:40:33.659 --> 00:40:38.940 And when they brought in this, that whole meeting where they said, oh, let's go over the school league tables. 487 00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:47.579 I found that was really harsh to listen to because my youngest, I don't think you'd mind me saying this, but he has always like struggled with literacy. 488 00:40:47.639 --> 00:40:51.960 So he would have like absolutely been one of the people who was selected to go there. 489 00:40:52.019 --> 00:40:55.139 And I was just like, nobody is taking my son. 490 00:40:55.199 --> 00:41:08.940 Yeah, so that was really, really uncomfortable thinking that your own children could be in that position and just the, like the horrible thought of like this, just these innocent kids being taken away. 491 00:41:09.059 --> 00:41:12.360 Um, not to mention what happens in episode five. 492 00:41:12.420 --> 00:41:13.320 We weren't talk about that. 493 00:41:13.380 --> 00:41:24.840 I mean, you might not remember after all this time, but episode 5 is full of scenes where you've got parents kind of weeping as their children are being taken away in school buses. 494 00:41:24.900 --> 00:41:32.820 You get armed people's snatching children from their parents' arms and seeing the distressed parents and stuff. 495 00:41:32.880 --> 00:41:37.980 And I mean, it's really, really rough to watch. 496 00:41:38.039 --> 00:41:49.079 Like, even before what happens to Stephen at the end of the episode, there's very, very distressing scenes of parents bereaved of their children or parents whose children are being taken away. 497 00:41:49.139 --> 00:41:50.699 And remember, there's a deal. 498 00:41:50.760 --> 00:41:53.039 You know, the state educates your children. 499 00:41:53.099 --> 00:42:03.000 You entrust your children to something outside your home, and it's the 1st time that you ever do that is when you surrender the child to daycare or to school. 500 00:42:03.059 --> 00:42:03.960 Oh, absolutely. 501 00:42:03.960 --> 00:42:04.860 That's hard. 502 00:42:04.920 --> 00:42:08.219 You know, that's really terrifically hard because they've been with you all the time. 503 00:42:08.280 --> 00:42:10.679 You're entrusting them to strangers to look after. 504 00:42:10.679 --> 00:42:16.860 And those strangers betray you in this case by, you know, then handing them over to kind of aliens and stuff. 505 00:42:16.980 --> 00:42:27.900 Yeah, and I remember that feeling well, that whole thing of, you know, you're going from that bit where you are the absolute cent of your children's life and you know what they're doing every day and then suddenly you stick them. 506 00:42:27.960 --> 00:42:31.980 My 1st child was sent on a school bus at the age of 3.5 . 507 00:42:32.039 --> 00:42:34.260 He got put on a school bus and sent off. 508 00:42:34.320 --> 00:42:42.659 And that was an incredible moment of trust, you know, and then he comes home and you're going, well, what have you been doing all this time when you were without me? 509 00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:45.300 And he's like, oh, yes, you know, stuff. 510 00:42:45.300 --> 00:42:47.579 And you're like devastated. 511 00:42:47.639 --> 00:42:49.559 Because you're suddenly cut out. 512 00:42:49.619 --> 00:43:09.360 The scene where Johnson 1st gets humanised, I think, is in last night's episode, which is where Alice and Stephen are captured, and Alice says, you understand that if you hurt my child, I will kill you, and Johnson says, understood. 513 00:43:09.480 --> 00:43:12.239 Like she just says, yes, that's absolutely... 514 00:43:12.300 --> 00:43:13.380 Yeah, perfectly acceptable. 515 00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:14.579 Yeah, yeah, that's right. 516 00:43:14.639 --> 00:43:16.980 Yeah, and I would be the same. 517 00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:22.320 I would absolutely shoot somebody between the eyes if they hurt my children even now. 518 00:43:22.380 --> 00:43:25.800 Like I'm just, it's like, no, you don't touch my kids. 519 00:43:25.860 --> 00:43:26.579 It's just a thing. 520 00:43:26.639 --> 00:43:28.019 Yeah. 521 00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:30.599 No, I feel much the same way about my laptop, actually, I have to say. 522 00:43:30.659 --> 00:43:32.880 I thought you were going to say you were tall. 523 00:43:34.860 --> 00:43:46.800 The scenes that you were talking about, Nathan, where the mothers are gathered outside the school gates and the children are being kind of railroaded onto the buses and that's very hard to watch. 524 00:43:46.860 --> 00:43:55.380 And the kids are distressed. right. one boy breaks away and runs towards his mother and gets kind of like snatched up by a soldier and put back on thing. 525 00:43:55.440 --> 00:44:01.380 And to give the teachers their due, they are also incredibly shocked and saddened by what's happening. 526 00:44:01.440 --> 00:44:02.760 They're not helping the soldiers. 527 00:44:10.079 --> 00:44:19.860 Of course, that plan, that incredible plan that seems to be going so well, runs up against the sheer fact of the 456, I think. 528 00:44:19.980 --> 00:44:22.440 And it's not that it was badly planned. 529 00:44:22.500 --> 00:44:30.420 No one makes a mistake or anything like that, but we're in a room confronted by the 456 and we cannot deal with them. 530 00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:32.820 We're just not able to do anything about it. 531 00:44:32.880 --> 00:44:45.719 And you've got the 456 repeatedly saying, you yielded in the past, you will do so again, and they just repeatedly say that, no matter what Jack and Yanto say to them. 532 00:44:45.780 --> 00:44:52.860 There's that wonderful moment as well. where they do the cyberman speech from the 10th planet. 533 00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:55.559 You know, the What, you'll be like us? 534 00:44:55.619 --> 00:44:56.340 No. 535 00:44:56.340 --> 00:45:04.800 The every 3 seconds a child dies and you adapt and you move on. 536 00:45:04.860 --> 00:45:14.940 The human infant mortality rate is 29,158 deaths per day, and the human response is to accept and adapt. 537 00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:21.300 It's exactly the conversation that the Cyberman has with Polly in the 10th planet. 538 00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:31.860 And the fact is that those things happen because in a very large measure, we don't care, and we choose not to do anything about it. 539 00:45:32.340 --> 00:45:36.179 So, you know, it turns out the humans were the villains all along. 540 00:45:36.840 --> 00:45:38.219 Yeah. 541 00:45:38.280 --> 00:45:42.780 That's a very sharp piece of dialogue because it is true. 542 00:45:42.840 --> 00:45:43.500 Yeah. 543 00:45:43.500 --> 00:45:47.579 And so, like the scene in the cabinet room, it does get you thinking. 544 00:45:47.579 --> 00:46:07.199 And actually, a lot of, a lot of this story, I think, is about what people will come to accept. and looking a little ahead to next week where it becomes, we will roll this out under the guise of giving everyone vaccinations in the post-COVID era. 545 00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:11.880 I found that that didn't really hold any water because you remember the movie contagion? 546 00:46:11.940 --> 00:46:14.579 which everyone was watching during lockdown. 547 00:46:14.639 --> 00:46:21.539 And at the end of contagion, they have a birthday lottery for who will get the vaccination against this terrible virus. 548 00:46:21.659 --> 00:46:24.119 And people are clamouring for it. 549 00:46:24.179 --> 00:46:26.760 Whereas we know that in real life that didn't happen. 550 00:46:26.820 --> 00:46:33.840 As soon as we had a vaccination program, there was a great mass of people who suddenly became, well, we don't want it. 551 00:46:33.900 --> 00:46:45.840 In fact, like doing it under the guise of inoculations, which is the proposal that Frobisher actually makes in the meeting in this episode is incredibly dangerous and reckless, isn't it? 552 00:46:45.900 --> 00:46:50.940 Because it would cause people to distrust vaccinations in future. 553 00:46:51.000 --> 00:46:56.099 Like it actually makes vaccination impossible to sell from here on in. 554 00:46:56.159 --> 00:47:09.119 And we see what happens, you know, we've got measles back with a vengeance in the US and the possibility of other serious infectious diseases that have been more or less eradicated. 555 00:47:09.119 --> 00:47:14.940 And because vaccination's been so successful, People don't realise how necessary it is. 556 00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:29.519 It was just, it was such a different world in 2009, where the understanding was that if there was some massive threat, people would be clamouring for the vaccination, we couldn't imagine a world where that wouldn't be the case and people would reject vaccination. 557 00:47:29.579 --> 00:47:33.420 And so I found it a dated concept in the show. 558 00:47:33.480 --> 00:47:33.960 Yeah. 559 00:47:33.960 --> 00:47:37.920 But I think it's incredible that it's been explored here. 560 00:47:37.980 --> 00:47:38.760 Do you know what I mean? 561 00:47:38.820 --> 00:47:48.539 that he's actually looking at this in this context and then what happened in 2019, 2020 happened. 562 00:47:48.599 --> 00:47:55.019 The other thing, too, is that the 456 seem to have something about viruses, right? 563 00:47:55.079 --> 00:48:00.659 So they come saying that they're offering an antivirus for the Indonesian flu. 564 00:48:00.719 --> 00:48:06.900 And here, somehow they're able to release a virus into the building. 565 00:48:06.900 --> 00:48:16.199 And I really love the fact that the MI5 building is kitted out with get smart doorways that kind of clatter closed vertically and horizontal. 566 00:48:16.739 --> 00:48:20.400 I mean, that scene is unbelievably great. 567 00:48:20.460 --> 00:48:23.219 Like Ben Foster absolutely goes to town. 568 00:48:23.280 --> 00:48:28.920 Like you get into cutting between what's happening with Jack and DeAnto and just the entire building. 569 00:48:28.980 --> 00:48:36.179 We, you know, the building, locking down people, people screaming, you know, banging on the walls, like all of them. 570 00:48:36.239 --> 00:48:38.039 Some of them were not great, though, I have to say. 571 00:48:38.099 --> 00:48:41.820 Can I just say, like, they were not great. 572 00:48:42.719 --> 00:48:49.980 Euroslyn is not good at doing these big scenes with groups of people, right? 573 00:48:50.039 --> 00:48:51.300 Back in the day in Doctor Who. 574 00:48:51.360 --> 00:48:56.760 And even through this, when you have crowd groups, like I sit there going, I'm not condensed. 575 00:48:56.820 --> 00:49:00.780 Eros always casts swell, but I don't think he casts the extras. 576 00:49:01.260 --> 00:49:05.340 We did talk a little bit about his limitations. 577 00:49:05.400 --> 00:49:13.619 Like he is very good at things, I think, and he is one of Doctor Who's best directors, but this is a little bit more cinematic and that's not really his strong point, I think. 578 00:49:13.679 --> 00:49:28.679 Yeah, but I mean, you know, you've got Jack and Yanto both dying while it says, you will die, and tomorrow your people will deliver the children, and like, it's just a complete loss. isn't it? 579 00:49:28.739 --> 00:49:29.579 Is it? 580 00:49:29.639 --> 00:49:35.880 Because I sit there watching that scene with them dying and I'm dying inside watching their acting. embarrassing. 581 00:49:35.940 --> 00:49:45.420 What I thought was really embarrassing is when we come back to the Cobra office and all of those people have been watching that scene on telly and you must think, oh my god, what would they think? 582 00:49:45.480 --> 00:49:47.940 Prime Minister turned to Denise and said, it would have been better with Gwen. 583 00:49:49.739 --> 00:49:51.840 Barrowman, God. 584 00:49:52.739 --> 00:49:56.219 I was like, Again, is he dying again? 585 00:49:56.280 --> 00:49:57.179 Why can't he just stay dead? 586 00:49:57.239 --> 00:50:02.940 There is the very, very nice beat after it all happens where when he comes back to life. 587 00:50:03.000 --> 00:50:06.300 It's not with the massive gas he usually gives, it's underplayed. 588 00:50:06.360 --> 00:50:09.119 It's in fact really done really quite well, isn't it? 589 00:50:09.239 --> 00:50:19.860 After that sort of giant musical theatre death that he does, and then he just does that little breath in and you can actually kind of see him remembering what happened. 590 00:50:19.920 --> 00:50:24.360 You know, he wakes up and remembers that this was the thing that happened. 591 00:50:24.420 --> 00:50:28.199 But like you, I spent that entire scene just dying of embarrassment. 592 00:50:28.260 --> 00:50:32.280 But, you know, um, Eve Miles. 593 00:50:32.340 --> 00:50:34.139 It's just a hero. 594 00:50:34.199 --> 00:50:40.860 She sells the entire last sequence with Yanto and with Jack and you can see, well, I think I can see that she's over. 595 00:50:40.860 --> 00:50:42.119 Jack, oh, yeah, you're back. 596 00:50:42.179 --> 00:50:48.300 But just her distress at Yanto and her crying and she just is magnificent and that whole long. 597 00:50:48.360 --> 00:50:52.860 You know, I just can't praise her enough throughout this entire production. 598 00:50:52.920 --> 00:50:54.659 It's such a great scene, isn't it? 599 00:50:54.719 --> 00:50:56.219 Because she's brought into the room. 600 00:50:56.219 --> 00:50:59.099 The room has just bodies like dead bodies. 601 00:50:59.159 --> 00:51:00.239 They're number 11 and 13. 602 00:51:00.360 --> 00:51:01.500 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 603 00:51:01.559 --> 00:51:09.420 And she looks at Jack and she smiles because she she loves Jack, you know, and she knows that he's going to be okay. 604 00:51:09.480 --> 00:51:13.380 And so she looks at him in a kind of sort of maternal, affectionate way. 605 00:51:13.440 --> 00:51:17.159 And then she turns to, and I can barely bear to say it. 606 00:51:17.219 --> 00:51:20.940 She turns to Yanto and Yanto's face is gray. 607 00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:36.840 He's not going to get better, and she just adjusts his tie, and it's such a tender thing to do, and then you look at her and like there's tears falling down her face, and she's so good. 608 00:51:36.900 --> 00:51:38.940 Like, she's so tremendous. 609 00:51:39.000 --> 00:51:44.400 And that's the moment, I think, where I became upset because, you know, there's all that controversy. 610 00:51:44.460 --> 00:51:45.360 Isn't there about this? 611 00:51:45.420 --> 00:51:47.099 It's a bury your gaze thing. 612 00:51:47.159 --> 00:51:51.179 You know, we have the gay couple and one of them has to die in the episode. 613 00:51:51.239 --> 00:51:56.340 And I just remember thinking, no, that's great. 614 00:51:56.460 --> 00:51:58.019 Let's have that happen. 615 00:51:58.079 --> 00:52:06.960 Like, let's have BBC One, you know, 1000000s of people tuning into BBC One to see Jack Morning, his dead love, you know. 616 00:52:07.019 --> 00:52:13.739 I know it's a terrible scene, but, you know, I will give Barriman his due in that. 617 00:52:13.800 --> 00:52:17.340 I don't think that the scene, where he answer dies, is very good. 618 00:52:17.400 --> 00:52:19.440 But the scene where Jack wakes up afterwards. 619 00:52:19.500 --> 00:52:27.239 What you were talking about earlier, he wakes up and that's that thing where you've had a terrible loss in your life or something's gone terribly wrong. 620 00:52:27.300 --> 00:52:35.099 You've managed to sleep and you wake up and for that blissful 2 seconds, everything's okay before the memories flood back over you. 621 00:52:35.159 --> 00:52:36.659 I thought he sold that really well. 622 00:52:36.719 --> 00:52:37.800 Yeah, it's really good. 623 00:52:37.860 --> 00:52:38.880 I will agree with you. 624 00:52:38.940 --> 00:52:47.039 Like he can do reactions really well, but it's selling dialogue in the moment that he just has some limitations. 625 00:52:47.099 --> 00:52:49.920 Clem's dying at the same time, isn't it? 626 00:52:50.039 --> 00:52:54.780 And again, Eve absolutely sells that. 627 00:52:54.840 --> 00:52:57.300 I mean, I'm over the character of Clem by this point. 628 00:52:57.360 --> 00:53:03.539 I know he's been through a lot, but all of his crying and all that by the time this episode I'm just ready to get rid of him. 629 00:53:03.599 --> 00:53:07.679 A good actor like he was in Downton Abbey in the future. 630 00:53:07.739 --> 00:53:09.480 But, you know, yeah. 631 00:53:09.539 --> 00:53:30.539 Yeah, I like, I also thought that that was a kind of very sort of Eric Sayward moment of getting rid of him, so we don't have to have him in episode five, but, of course, spoilers tomorrow night's episode is solved because we learn about the link between him and the 456 and they even refer to him, don't they, as the remnant. 632 00:53:30.599 --> 00:53:32.940 That's right I do have a question. 633 00:53:33.000 --> 00:53:37.559 That old scientist guy that keeps coming into it whose name, I forget, Decker. right? 634 00:53:37.619 --> 00:53:39.780 Like all the gases in the building or whatever. 635 00:53:39.840 --> 00:53:45.360 But he's still an anxious to get into a suit. and survive to the next episode, whereas I thought he was collapsing when he got into that suit. 636 00:53:45.360 --> 00:53:45.960 Am I wrong? 637 00:53:46.019 --> 00:53:48.480 Yeah, I wonder why they do that. 638 00:53:48.539 --> 00:53:55.139 I wonder why they do that because Yanto just says, no, I've breathed the air. die, you know, like there's nothing that can be done. 639 00:53:55.199 --> 00:54:02.039 Decker gets into a kind of hazmat suit, like that red kind of bio suit thing. 640 00:54:02.099 --> 00:54:06.239 And I'm wondering why they do that. like why they have him in the room at all. 641 00:54:06.300 --> 00:54:24.059 And I wonder whether there's a line in an earlier episode where he refers to himself and Frobisher is cockroaches, that they are people who've survived for decades, and their civil servants will be here long after the politicians are gone. 642 00:54:24.119 --> 00:54:25.739 We were here long before they got there. 643 00:54:25.800 --> 00:54:30.599 And I just wonder whether that's what that's trying to sell. 644 00:54:30.659 --> 00:54:41.159 He is going to have an important role in tomorrow night's episode and I guess that that was why he's there because I was wondering because it does stretch plausibility, I think. 645 00:54:41.219 --> 00:54:42.360 That's what I was saying. 646 00:54:42.420 --> 00:54:45.360 Like, I just kind of thought, well, he's briefed in the air. shouldn't he be dead like everybody else? 647 00:54:45.900 --> 00:54:53.519 slightly confusing in the direction because when you have, you think, is he collapsing inside the suit or is it just relief that's inside the suit on his face? 648 00:54:53.579 --> 00:54:55.739 But I think that that's why they do it. 649 00:54:55.800 --> 00:55:02.639 I think there's a reason, a clear reason why they choose to include him there rather than just not have him in the building. 650 00:55:02.699 --> 00:55:06.599 I think it is trying to make character point about him being a survivor. 651 00:55:06.659 --> 00:55:08.400 Yeah, I wondered the same thing. 652 00:55:08.460 --> 00:55:19.139 You know, despite my earlier misgivings about, you know, just returning to the trolly problem and the fact that I don't think the story in general holds up in a post-COVID world. 653 00:55:19.199 --> 00:55:21.659 I don't think the structural logic of it holds up. 654 00:55:21.719 --> 00:55:22.320 It is good. 655 00:55:22.380 --> 00:55:31.019 It is good drama, and we have good people like Peter Capaldi and absolutely Eve Miles, I'm doing their best in it. 656 00:55:31.079 --> 00:55:39.360 And so I think by some stretch, it, by some way, it is the best Doctor Who spinoff. 657 00:55:39.420 --> 00:55:51.539 Yeah, there's a sense in which I thought for a while, and I may have said this before, that for a while, I thought this was the best thing in the RTD one era. 658 00:55:51.599 --> 00:56:01.860 And I don't think that now, because I love Doctor Who, and I love the lighter, more family-friendly tone that it usually takes, this is a bit bleak for me generally. 659 00:56:01.920 --> 00:56:11.760 But this is Russell's closest attempt to do something like like season 7 or years and years. 660 00:56:11.820 --> 00:56:20.400 Yeah, or years and years, but something that's longer, like we get we get a big regular cast, we get lots of interesting characters played by incredible actors. 661 00:56:20.460 --> 00:56:23.820 We get a complicated story with a lot happening. 662 00:56:23.880 --> 00:56:26.280 There's no marking time or anything like that. 663 00:56:26.340 --> 00:56:29.340 Everything goes at quite a pace. 664 00:56:29.400 --> 00:56:31.019 It's got a huge scale. 665 00:56:31.079 --> 00:56:36.059 You know, it's like the Silurians, I think only longer and a bit better. 666 00:56:36.119 --> 00:56:38.219 All that green sort of froth. 667 00:56:38.219 --> 00:56:39.719 We're going done with a prime ward. 668 00:57:04.860 --> 00:57:07.980 Well, that's all the time we had for this week. 669 00:57:08.039 --> 00:57:15.420 We'll be back next week to watch everyone get a well deserved happy ending in Torchwood, Children of Earth, day five. 670 00:57:15.900 --> 00:57:36.480 In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us on our website, 500yearDiary.com, where you'll find our social media links, as well as links to all of our other podcasts, including the entirety of flight through entirety, which comprises every episode of our 4 Doctor Who podcasts. 671 00:57:37.260 --> 00:57:46.980 Until next time, remember that when a child is being terribly annoying, a simple but effective technique is to ask them politely to leave the room. 672 00:57:47.099 --> 00:57:49.800 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 673 00:57:49.860 --> 00:57:51.420 Good night. 674 00:57:51.480 --> 00:57:52.019 Good night. 675 00:57:52.079 --> 00:57:52.920 See you soon. 676 00:58:04.980 --> 00:58:10.619 That was 500 year diary, starring Todd Bealby, Nathan Bottomley, Peter Griffiths, and Fiona Tomney. 677 00:58:10.679 --> 00:58:12.539 The theme was composed by Cameron Lamb. 678 00:58:12.599 --> 00:58:19.380 This episode, The War between the Land and Denise, was recorded on the 15th of March, 2026, and released on the 5th of April. 679 00:58:19.980 --> 00:58:30.960 Here at FDE, we're so impressed with the adorable puppet murker from the season 21 box set that we're starting a campaign to include it in every story in the season 16 box set. 680 00:58:31.019 --> 00:58:37.139 To show your support, post on your favourite social media network with the hashtag, The Planet Tara needs a merker. 681 00:58:37.199 --> 00:58:40.320 Next time, Count Grendel shall not be so delicious. 682 00:58:49.380 --> 00:59:01.440 So he could have done it, and done it differently and just go, well, we're just going to get torchwood to help them deal with 456 and just cut it back to 2 episodes and not have them having to try and take him out. 683 00:59:01.500 --> 00:59:02.219 Do you know what I mean? 684 00:59:02.280 --> 00:59:02.699 Yeah. 685 00:59:02.699 --> 00:59:03.000 Yeah. 686 00:59:03.059 --> 00:59:11.460 But I do like that because there's some great, you know, like them being chased by people and stuff like that, the destruction of torch, but all that stuff's so great. 687 00:59:11.579 --> 00:59:12.360 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 688 00:59:12.420 --> 00:59:14.519 I'm just saying, like, you know, you could have got just a 2 part. 689 00:59:14.579 --> 00:59:18.179 Yeah, yeah, yeah. where, you know, we've got a structure here that's going to work for five. 690 00:59:18.239 --> 00:59:32.280 I mean, I think I said before about what idiot Barrowman is, because he complains that we're being demoted, where it's like instead, no, we're getting 5 consecutive nights on BBC one, that people are actually going to watch. 691 00:59:32.340 --> 00:59:35.519 And the highest rating the show ever got. 692 00:59:35.579 --> 00:59:36.360 Yeah, that's right. 693 00:59:36.420 --> 00:59:40.199 And it's incredibly good for a change as well. you know. 694 00:59:40.440 --> 00:59:45.360 Maybe he was just cheesed off at, you know, Capaldi and miles with her. 695 00:59:45.360 --> 00:59:46.380 Yeah, the star. 696 00:59:47.039 --> 00:59:49.860 I mean, that's something to get your dick out over. 697 00:59:54.840 --> 00:59:56.340 You're cancelled as well now. 698 00:59:57.900 --> 00:59:59.760 Long before time. 699 00:59:59.820 --> 01:00:01.619 I reckon that's it. 700 01:00:01.679 --> 01:00:02.159 What do you think? 701 01:00:02.219 --> 01:00:02.940 I thought that was really good. 702 01:00:03.840 --> 01:00:06.420 Yeah, I don't think there's anything. 703 01:00:06.480 --> 01:00:08.699 Do you have any closing remarks, Fiona? 704 01:00:08.760 --> 01:00:10.320 Oh, not really. 705 01:00:10.380 --> 01:00:15.659 Just, um, next time, make sure you do invite me for invasion of the fluffy bunnies kind of thing.