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This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 09:17:34

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to 500 Year Diary, the only Doctor Who podcast that spent the 1990s mostly smelling of eternity by Calvin Klein.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Adam.

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I'm James.

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I'm Kevin.

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It's Wednesday the 8th of July, 2009.

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It's been just 23 hours since the big tank was unveiled on floor 13 of Thames House, and tonight, nearly 6 million.

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People have tuned in to watch the 456 appear inside it.

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Let's see if they have any surprising requests to make, as we discuss Torchwood, Children of Earth, day three.

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So, Kevin, I have actually never heard you talk about Torchwood and I have no idea what you think of it.

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So how did you feel about children of earth going in?

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Oh, I love children of earth.

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It was actually the 1st torch what I was allowed to watch given my rather young age. at the time.

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I mean, I've got to be honest, it's a lot less outrageous than stuff in the previous 2 seasons.

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I think if you're going to start a child on it, existential despair is probably a better place to start than sex gas.

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Like, I'll be honest, as a kid, I really wanted to know what was up with his ex-gas.

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I kind of love the sex guest episode.

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Oh, I'm very...

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Is the 6th guess episode the root and pop one?

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Yeah, mission pop.

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And then did you go back and enjoy earlier seasons?

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Eventually I did.

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Yeah.

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It took a little while to get around to being able to sneak my way back, but eventually I made it through all of Torchwood.

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Obviously, the 1st 2 seasons are a roller coaster of wild quality swings, but I kind of love that in my Doctor Who.

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I always prefer a run of Doctor Who that's very ambitious and has some all-time classics as well as some other shit to something that's just sort of even keel, but never really sticks with me.

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So I've got a big soft spot for Torchwood.

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Plus, like, so many people in my generation.

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Kind of the 1st queer representation on TV.

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I ever really saw.

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I mean, sure Doctor Who had some, but Tort sure had a lot more.

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I have to say that, you know, rewatching this, I was super fond about the setup and, you know, particularly the remaining regulars and Reese.

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I think I really like them a lot.

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And it is kind of fun to spend time with them.

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And we did have a week of John Barriman last week, which was kind of nice as well.

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He was mostly on fire or in concrete.

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We're not sure he enjoyed.

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He was a cinder.

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Oh my god.

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I didn't realise how naked. until I watched it on my ridiculously large television with far too much definition on it.

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And I was like, oh, that bit of text is not doing any covering there.

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There's sort of a fascinating mystery to me that Russell T. Davies during his 1st run of Doctor Who and Torchwood seems to be willing to treat John Barrowman as being as attractive as John Barrowman thinks he is.

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It's very strange.

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Yes, it's very weird. the world's oldest twink.

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So at this point in the show, we have 2 plots going and episode three, which at its very, very middle point is Frobisher talking to the 456.

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So that plot properly, properly kicks in here.

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But what also kicks in and perhaps reaches a climax is the why is the government trying to kill Captain Jack Harkness plot?

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And I think what we get here is those 2 sort of coinciding really interestingly.

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So, um, this episode starts with a giant hero moment for the Torchwood crew as they overcome what happened to them, you know, at the end of part one.

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I had a couple of weird things within this episode where, and I had this same problem a couple of times in the war between the Hoozy and the Doozy.

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Um, which was the characters who we had seen in the last episode doing something in this episode was like, oh, it's almost like that never happened because it was a different writer last week and we didn't read the whole script.

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Like when Kush Jumbo is like, I don't know if I should do this, I could be done for Teresa.

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It's like, you already helped them in the previous episode in the cafe.

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Why aren't you now pretending like you haven't even had a conversation?

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It was a very strange moment for me when she's like, oh no, I can't possibly help you.

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It's like you already did.

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There is kind of a kind of passover that.

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Isn't there like where someone does say, I mean, she does say something about, I helped you once, blah, blah, blah.

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So someone someone has sort of papered over that a little bit.

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Yeah, not enough.

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Yeah, so like, I actually really think that episode 2 has been a bit relentless because it is this sort of giant chase and we're on the run and Jack is, as you said, Adam kind of encased in concrete.

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And here we kind of get like a proper hero moment and we even get the music kicking in and stuff, you know, he gets his jacket back barely in pausibly.

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His entire, his entire outfit get comfort backs on my out.

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I like how the script doesn't even really care on that one. like, um, Yanto later when he's trying to seduce Jack says, I missed that coat, as though it's the same one.

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I went to a military surplus store. and just happened to pick up exactly the same outfit because they bought all of them.

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Yeah, maybe is the coat like, do they do it in the coat?

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is what I want to know.

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Does he take all the clothes off and then put the coat back on and then they have like their little 20 to 30 minute adventure?

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That or nothing comes off.

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It's just men at play.com.

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I have literally another very urgent sex question, which is what on earth do you do with the torchwood contact lenses?

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Because apparently Reese and Gwen have been doing it and I can't imagine what it would be.

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Like looking themselves having sex with.

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Yeah, no, it's either extreme narcissism or like distance play.

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I don't...

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Is it a different movie to try to see what each other are doing to themselves and like send instructions back and forth. don't know.

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It's not super obvious, is it?

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I mean, he's he's a long haul truck driver.

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So perhaps he has the laptop when he's on the road and she's just looking down and jiggling a bit.

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But before that, I think, you know, as well as getting the relief of a hero moment, we actually have that really kind of fun montage of them all committing crimes.

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So much fun.

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Oh, it's crazy.

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Oh, that is hilarious.

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Like, it's so stupid.

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And did this not give children ideas throughout England?

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I had no ideas whatsoever watching it as a kid.

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It is actually the sort of thing that you can only do on torture it.

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I mean, you know, because Doctor Who is for children or is for families and, you know, to some degree has to be a bit of a role model, having all of our heroes commit crimes is really only something that we can do on torture.

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And it is hilarious.

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It's really adorable, I think.

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It really hit home for me just how efficient the scripting is here.

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Like, we go into a montage for it.

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That's something that I feel like, um, the more recent spinoff war between really could have used more of where we could just blitz through different beats and comedy and juggle characters a bit more.

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It's, it's fun to see everybody doing a little different thing that builds.

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Yeah.

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And, you know, with the with the culmination of Jack stealing the sports car, which is just hilarious.

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Just adorable.

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And like, it is a really fun moment.

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This is a fairly relentless 5 hours, and there isn't a lot of humour, and it's still torchwood.

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It's still a Doctor Who spinoff.

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It still should be funny.

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And so giving them that light moment.

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And also, you know, there is some other stuff in that the new hub in hub too.

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You know, the stuff about the beans, the stuff that we mentioned before about, you know, Yanto trying to seduce Jack and, and, you know.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.

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Like all of that stuff is actually really kind of fun and adorable.

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I mean, we had, it was the fun.

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There was some fun stuff in episode 2 with Yanto's sister.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Like driving off while they're all arresting the guys taking out the house.

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Yeah, or stealing the torchwood car as well in episode one, that dreadful car that makes them walk so stupid.

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So all of that stuff is kind of fun, but this in particular, because it ends in such a dark place for Jack.

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It ends in that admission.

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So it starts with some triumph for Jack, you know, who's overcome being buried in concrete.

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Um, and wearing tracks of pants, which seems to be pants.

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That was brought to his very lowest in tracksuit fans.

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You know, it kind of has to have that trajectory, I think.

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But certainly that's a hugely fun sequence.

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Well, I mean, given what Captain Jack's famous for, it's weird that he's not okay with being in tracksuit pants, you'd think that would be his go-to outfit so everyone could see what he's famous for.

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And so this particular plot, this particular thread, which starts with Jack's hero moment and then ends and ends the episode with his admission that he gave the children to the 456 the 1st time.

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And it even ends with him saying, as a gift, the very word that the 456 have just used themselves to describe what they want.

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And I guess that thread basically is Gwen's subplot, isn't it?

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Like Gwen gets Clem out of lockup and slowly, you know, very slowly through traffic.

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There's a big traffic jam so that she arrives at the crucial moment.

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And he can smell Jack.

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He can smell, Jack.

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We all can.

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Thank you, Nathan.

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You said what we're all thinking.

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That's just that's one of those things watching this that really reminded me.

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I am watching a Russell T Davies show.

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He just has this deep love of weird sensory details and the puerile that no other writer would even think to do, and I'm not sure how I feel about it, to be honest.

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He also really enjoys decimating populations.

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Yes, definitely.

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When was...

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Like Series 3 is what, 2007?

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This is 2009.

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Like, oh, wait a minute, he doesn't decimate the sea devils.

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He wipes out 90% of them.

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Yeah, yeah.

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It's the trade-off.

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The other 10%.

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Yeah, the other...

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I will say in comparison to the sea devil's business.

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This takes ages to build the little case.

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Whereas in the sea devil's like, yeah, we probably took a bit long with that.

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Would you do that really quickly in the 1st episode?

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I mean, I think that I actually think that this works really well, that the, that there is the mystery of what the children do, which is just this sort of massive, incredible hawk.

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Like it's super memorable.

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Very high concept, very, very easy to understand and super visual.

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But then we don't get the aliens until halfway through the show.

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And what we do get instead is the mystery of why Jack is being targeted, who those 3 other people are.

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And so we get that mystery solved here.

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And then that clears the decks to let us do the 456, but we don't have to do them for too long.

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Like they don't wear out their welcome.

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Whereas obviously in war between the land and the sea, the tank is sort of set up, isn't it?

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In episode one.

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And then they replay all the same footage in episode two, like we're watching the Thunderbirds and the palm trees going down.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Which, yeah.

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So I think that that works incredibly well.

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And because there's enough going on, because we're introducing all of these other characters and characters who are reacting to the children and characters who have the children are in sort of various, you know, in Jack's family and Yanto's family and Frobisher.

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We've got enough happening to kind of keep us going.

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So we never feel like we're marking time, even though the show sets up.

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This is not going to happen till tomorrow.

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This is not going to happen until, you know, the end of the day and so on.

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So it, you know, like it creates some future deadlines, but we never feel like we're just spinning our wheels waiting for them.

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Yeah, I've got to say the 1st conversation with the 456 is one of those moments where Uris Lynn has taken us on a big wide shot and it's just tiny little Peter Capaldi walking slowly forwards in the room and he's so softly spoken, you're like, I can't believe this is the same guy that plays Malcolm Tucker, that when he says the word shit, it's like, ooh, that's the biggest thing you've said.

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That's the worst swear that's come out of your mouth. yeah It's such a weird impact.

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And it's the same guy that plays the doctor and is so incendiary and active and it's this quiet, terrifying little man.

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It's such a great performance from him.

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I've said this multiple times.

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He is the best actor to regularly play the doctor.

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He is.

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Oh, no contest.

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So he's just so brilliant and so well timed and you don't notice that these 4 different characters we know him for.

177
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Three, three, which in the Doctor Who universe and one in the Doctor Who adjacent universe.

178
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They're all so different Yeah, I forget that it is actually the same actor.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

181
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Like this is Frobisher. like you don't say, oh, it's Peter Capaldi.

182
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You think it's Frobisher as the character?

183
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Not the penguin.

184
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No, no, no, but head cannon wise, he is the penguin, remember?

185
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Let's kind of talk about that.

186
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We do have the 456 here now, finally.

187
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We're wise not to give them a name.

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They don't have a space name, and they refuse to give one.

189
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So...

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Yep, we have that.

191
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Well, maybe because it's pronounced by spitting all over the window.

192
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What do we think of that puke anyway?

193
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Is it puke?

194
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Is it some other bodily fluid?

195
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Is it because of the child drugs?

196
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I actually think I actually think it's brilliant.

197
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And I think I think the reason is that you have a contrast between the incredibly crisp and cultured voice that it speaks with, how incredibly measured it is, how it's prepared to just sit and let its interlocutors just sort of twist on the weird waiting for a ply.

198
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It just leaves people there.

199
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These huge gaps in the conversation.

200
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Oh, yes.

201
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It's clearly, really very intelligent.

202
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But the screaming and the growling, and the fact, like it, it's spraying bodily fluids all over the walls, in a, in a way, there's that incredible moment, isn't there, where, um, where Frobisher, in, not in the 1st conversation, but in the 1st big recorded conversation that, that lower season that the prime minister sees, that it does that screaming, shrieking thing and smashing against the walls and and spraying the walls with the excrement.

203
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Um, And Capaldi says, is everything okay?

204
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I'm concerned or, you know, forgive me, I'm concerned.

205
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And then it just kind of parrots that back at him in this really aggressive, dismissive way.

206
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And so the mere fact that we don't know what that is, but that there's something disgusting and animalistic about it, that it's dripping with mucus all the time, that we don't get to see it properly ever.

207
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It reminds me a little bit of Anthony Hopkins's, as Hannibal Lecter, where he's very, very cultured and urbane.

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And the contrast between that and the disgusting things that he's prepared to touch and and it's like that, I think.

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I can smell your penguin from here.

210
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I think it's also, I wonder if, so the behaviour of the 456 when you pull out and look at it, like they're drug addicts, for one thing, they're demanding gifts for another.

211
00:17:46.799 --> 00:17:53.220
They parrot you back to you in some sort of mocking way and they're spitting all over the glass.

212
00:17:53.279 --> 00:17:56.039
Are they annoying teenagers at the shops?

213
00:17:57.299 --> 00:18:00.480
Can you buy me a 6 pack, sir?

214
00:18:01.799 --> 00:18:21.539
I mean, it is kind of, you know, love crafty and in the sense that it's just this weird, unknowable thing that doesn't even have a name that we can't understand in any way, but that it is really kind of viscerally disgusting and sort of slimy and frightening and incomprehensible.

215
00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:37.680
And I think as well, one of the things that we've talked about over the last couple of weeks is the show lands on calling them drug addicts, you know, that the, they bolt themselves to the children, because the children producer chemical that makes them high, that gives them a hit, as they say.

216
00:18:37.740 --> 00:18:41.339
But they're also conceived of as paedophiles, aren't they?

217
00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:46.140
They're people who violate the bodily autonomy of children in order to get off.

218
00:18:46.140 --> 00:18:47.579
Yeah, in order to get off.

219
00:18:47.640 --> 00:18:54.420
And we have characters in dialogue talk to people like last week.

220
00:18:54.480 --> 00:19:04.440
You know, Yanto went to a little girl at the playground and tried to see what was going on with her when she'd stopped and her mother calls him a pervert and tells him to kind of get away.

221
00:19:04.500 --> 00:19:08.339
Yeah, and the same thing with the car when they're shaking the car in that thing.

222
00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:10.079
Like, oh, you paedophile. staying.

223
00:19:10.140 --> 00:19:10.859
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

224
00:19:10.920 --> 00:19:23.220
So all of that anxiety, because there is a real anxiety and we talked about this as well, that as gay men, there's something about this as slightly inaccessible probably to us, or as childless gay men anyway.

225
00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:38.039
The way that people own their children or see themselves as owning their children on top of the way that they're anxious about their children and the way they love their children and stuff and all of those things are kind of being played with all the way through here, I think.

226
00:19:38.099 --> 00:19:54.240
Yeah, I mean, that's a good point with the children and not us, you know, having that experience, but also we can, that is our in, because I'm sure we've all at times experienced being accused of being pervs.

227
00:19:54.299 --> 00:19:58.380
But, you know, homophobic people. in our lives.

228
00:19:58.440 --> 00:20:00.960
Maybe not Kevin, because he's not as grown up as us.

229
00:20:01.259 --> 00:20:05.099
But in our day, the 2 things were inextricable.

230
00:20:05.160 --> 00:20:21.720
Like, and even when you look at someone like Kevin Spacey, when, you know, he was accused of molesting Anthony Rapp, and instead of saying, oh, I absolutely did that, and I'm really sorry about it, he came out of the closet as if it's like, no, no, no, we're not talking about you being gay.

231
00:20:21.779 --> 00:20:24.599
We're talking about you interfering with a 14 year old boy.

232
00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:28.920
And he just had those 2 in his head as, oh, that's the same thing.

233
00:20:28.980 --> 00:20:34.740
And a lot of people back in the day were completely completed the two.

234
00:20:34.859 --> 00:20:36.539
And, you know, you would.

235
00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:46.680
I remember once when I was in radio and this is in the 2000s and it was like, oh, maybe we shouldn't have Adam come to this thing because it's a kid's party and everyone's like, why not?

236
00:20:46.740 --> 00:20:52.980
And I had a step monster at the time that I was living with on the weekend. like, yeah, he's fine.

237
00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:56.279
But that was just kind of an attitude.

238
00:20:56.279 --> 00:21:17.039
And I guess that's part of what, you know, Russell's trying to expose here on some level is that everyone was a paedophile at that time in England, like everyone that was, you know, that was a word thrown around like crazy about everybody, little, did we realise that all the people in charge, throwing that word around, were in fact the paedophiles.

239
00:21:17.099 --> 00:21:19.140
That's why they were sort of familiar with the use of the word.

240
00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:39.720
I mean, that's sort of a thing with this too, with Torchwood is fundamentally playing with conspiracy thrillers and classic conspiracy theory, and 2 of the big ones that Children of Earth touches on are, of course, the elites are coming to take your children, and also later on, they have a sort of vaccine panic story beat.

241
00:21:39.779 --> 00:21:53.640
It's the sort of thing that ages quite strangely in good ways and bad, but it is very much in conversation with what people are going to be screaming about secret government organisations like Torchwood doing in the 1st place.

242
00:21:53.700 --> 00:21:55.140
Yeah, yeah.

243
00:22:09.900 --> 00:22:13.559
Let's talk about some of the secondary characters for a second.

244
00:22:13.619 --> 00:22:20.460
I thought that Alice and Stephen had a pretty great week this week.

245
00:22:20.519 --> 00:22:22.859
She's amazing.

246
00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:23.400
She is.

247
00:22:23.460 --> 00:22:24.000
I love her.

248
00:22:24.059 --> 00:22:24.900
Yeah, I really like her.

249
00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:25.740
I think she's incredible.

250
00:22:25.799 --> 00:22:28.200
I would love to know what she was going to do with that knife.

251
00:22:28.259 --> 00:22:29.460
Yeah, yeah.

252
00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:30.960
It's awesome, isn't it?

253
00:22:31.019 --> 00:22:33.900
It's so great Like she actually leaves the kitchen.

254
00:22:33.900 --> 00:22:36.000
And it's really kind of well done.

255
00:22:36.059 --> 00:22:39.839
Like, you know, she hears a dog, like the sound of a dog.

256
00:22:39.900 --> 00:22:44.099
I was watching it this morning and Alfie reacted really badly to the sound of the dog.

257
00:22:44.220 --> 00:22:46.079
He was running around looking for it.

258
00:22:46.140 --> 00:22:47.819
But she reacts to the sound of the dog.

259
00:22:47.880 --> 00:22:48.960
She kind of looks in and out.

260
00:22:49.019 --> 00:22:58.799
She grabs 2 things from the kitchen, like the chopping board and the knife and then runs just as like the armed goons come into her house.

261
00:22:58.859 --> 00:23:05.880
And then within a 2nd she's used the chopping board to like smash this guy in the head and steal his gun.

262
00:23:05.940 --> 00:23:08.279
And now she's running around the streets with a gun.

263
00:23:08.339 --> 00:23:09.000
It's awesome.

264
00:23:09.059 --> 00:23:10.259
She's so great.

265
00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:11.759
She's so great.

266
00:23:11.819 --> 00:23:28.019
And even the bit at the beginning too, which kind of intercunts between the crime bit because the crime bit kind of spills over a bit because, you know, she does the sneaky thing where she goes to the woman across the road and says, can I borrow your phone and then she kind of realises she's being traced, I think.

267
00:23:28.079 --> 00:23:28.980
Yeah.

268
00:23:28.980 --> 00:23:37.740
And then you get Jack, of course, and we'll talk about this later going into Frobisher's house and stealing Anna's phone and we'll talk about that too.

269
00:23:37.859 --> 00:23:42.960
But I mean, here, I just think she's fantastically strong.

270
00:23:43.019 --> 00:23:49.380
And I was saying last week, I think that I really, really like the woman who plays Johnson.

271
00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:50.880
Oh yeah.

272
00:23:50.940 --> 00:23:54.180
But she's looking at down in the hole and pouring in the concrete.

273
00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:55.259
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

274
00:23:55.319 --> 00:23:56.339
It's great.

275
00:23:56.519 --> 00:24:02.579
She does overpluck her eyebrows a little bit, but I'm, like, I'm, I'm repanticated for you.

276
00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:03.599
It was the style of the time.

277
00:24:05.039 --> 00:24:20.819
But she's really great, and I have sort of suggested, because I think next week, her and Alice actually bond slightly, like, and gradually, like, they end up having quite an interesting relationship, I think.

278
00:24:20.880 --> 00:24:24.420
But here she's just incredibly strong.

279
00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:37.380
And I think the one moment that I think we see the beginning of that relationship is where Alice says to her, if you hurt Stephen, I will kill you and her reply is just understood, you know, understood.

280
00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:39.539
I love that standoff.

281
00:24:39.960 --> 00:24:43.140
It's beautiful. a beautiful moment.

282
00:24:43.200 --> 00:24:50.339
I think the really smart twist is them defusing the situation by her saying, if I wanted either of you dead, you already would be.

283
00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:56.940
It's the sort of just bringing logic into a standard beat where the characters really get the measure of each other.

284
00:24:57.000 --> 00:24:58.980
I thought that was really well played.

285
00:24:59.039 --> 00:25:04.680
I just love how that character, and she's, she, like, she's so chilling.

286
00:25:04.740 --> 00:25:09.000
But you don't get the impression that she's necessarily evil.

287
00:25:09.059 --> 00:25:10.680
She's just doing her job.

288
00:25:10.740 --> 00:25:13.440
Her job is evil and it has hurting people.

289
00:25:13.500 --> 00:25:18.240
But there's that line where Alice says, take me, but leave him.

290
00:25:18.299 --> 00:25:21.359
He's only a kid and she says, so?

291
00:25:21.420 --> 00:25:23.160
And it's like, oh.

292
00:25:23.160 --> 00:25:27.299
But I mean, later her concern for children.

293
00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:28.079
Do you know what I mean?

294
00:25:28.140 --> 00:25:31.559
It actually becomes apparent, like, when she knows what her government is actually doing?

295
00:25:31.619 --> 00:25:33.480
She comes over to our side.

296
00:25:33.660 --> 00:25:39.539
And that's more effective because she's someone whom we've seen, you know, attempting to kill our leads and stuff.

297
00:25:39.660 --> 00:25:45.660
In many ways, she is, she becomes one of the heroes of the story towards the end.

298
00:25:45.720 --> 00:25:46.500
Like she...

299
00:25:46.859 --> 00:25:48.000
She certainly one of our gang.

300
00:25:48.059 --> 00:25:48.420
Yeah.

301
00:25:48.420 --> 00:25:48.660
Yeah.

302
00:25:49.079 --> 00:25:49.380
Yeah.

303
00:25:49.440 --> 00:25:58.680
And of course, there is just a brilliant economy as well in ending that scene with Stephen pointing and us not knowing why.

304
00:25:58.740 --> 00:26:02.039
And so we go straight into the pointing when we're in the middle of something else.

305
00:26:02.099 --> 00:26:15.779
And that is something I think that happens a couple of times where during the course of the thing, we're actually in the middle of another scene and the children interrupt the action by suddenly behaving oddly at the behest of the 456.

306
00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:18.720
And here it's Stephen pointing, it's something that we've never seen before.

307
00:26:18.779 --> 00:26:29.160
And it's really just another very clever thing because it is the 456 trying to implicate England, which it's been trying to do all the way through.

308
00:26:29.220 --> 00:26:36.119
Like it's, you know, it's been trying to make it clear that England is responsible for all of this.

309
00:26:36.359 --> 00:26:37.680
Yeah.

310
00:26:37.680 --> 00:27:00.180
And it's Rhiannon, who realises that London's over there, Reese, I think, realises as well, and then it's Yanto, who realises that they're all pointing at Thames house, but we get that montage of all of the newsreaders, you know, saying that everyone in France is pointing west and everyone in the US is pointing east and all of that.

311
00:27:00.180 --> 00:27:05.460
So, and then we kind of narrow it down to Thames house. everyone in London is pointing at the centre of London.

312
00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:13.740
Everyone's pointing at Tim's house, which again, is just really well told through those, you know, very rustly kind of newsreaders.

313
00:27:13.799 --> 00:27:22.980
And I really want to shout out to that blonde news reader who is so convincing, just as absolutely the intonation of a BBC news reader.

314
00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:23.940
She's so perfect.

315
00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:27.539
Absolutely, absolutely 100% credible.

316
00:27:27.599 --> 00:27:34.380
I think also the efficiency of the storytelling means you don't have to dwell on some of the oddities of a concept like that.

317
00:27:34.440 --> 00:27:39.180
Like, what direction were people on the exact opposite of the globe from England pointing?

318
00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:40.019
Were they pointing down?

319
00:27:40.079 --> 00:27:42.180
They're going like, oh, corrections?

320
00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:43.140
What happens?

321
00:27:44.220 --> 00:27:52.019
It's very much like the Christmas invasion where, you know, like a 3rd of the population walk up to the roof and you kind of go, well, is there always a roof?

322
00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:52.859
Like what's happening?

323
00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:55.680
Some of them were standing on the garden wall.

324
00:27:56.220 --> 00:27:58.559
I'm standing on the gutter.

325
00:27:59.819 --> 00:28:03.119
I mean, it is great to see Trinity back.

326
00:28:03.180 --> 00:28:10.140
It feels weird, though, because, you know, she doesn't really fit in Torchwood, in a way, you know?

327
00:28:10.200 --> 00:28:19.920
Like, she, she fits in conspiracy is always in Doctor Who, and she's kind of reassuring until you get to the 2nd RTT era, and she's just got full mental.

328
00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:25.559
She's sort of Alex Jones. you know, she works for she works too.

329
00:28:25.619 --> 00:28:28.019
I think this is the start of her Candace Owens art.

330
00:28:28.140 --> 00:28:43.980
But yeah, like I think all of those things are great and that's obviously the great innovation that Russell brings to Doctor Who in Aliens of London and brings it straight from the 2nd coming, which is, you know, where it's a huge way that he goes about telling, you know, giving that story scale.

331
00:28:44.039 --> 00:28:58.500
But here, just the fact that they act as a kind of Greek chorus or, or, you know, like a narrator and enables some very quick worldwide things to happen, like constantly reminding us that this isn't England, even though we only ever see England.

332
00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:03.660
Oh, speaking of 2nd coming, how great is that biblical image of the pillar of fire?

333
00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:06.359
Yeah, it's so good, isn't it?

334
00:29:06.420 --> 00:29:07.380
It's really good.

335
00:29:07.500 --> 00:29:12.480
It's so good. because I watched it on my stupidly large television with my ridiculous 7 speakers.

336
00:29:12.539 --> 00:29:14.579
It's crazy loud.

337
00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:24.839
Like, I know this has always been a complaint about the BBC Blu-rays is that they pump up the, um, the surround sound is stupid.

338
00:29:24.900 --> 00:29:26.700
Like everything is miles away.

339
00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:35.039
Like they make this enormous sound field and the subwoofer was getting quite a workout and I'm like, yeah, sometimes it's ridiculous.

340
00:29:35.099 --> 00:29:36.359
And then sometimes it's just fun.

341
00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:39.240
It just looks incredible.

342
00:29:39.299 --> 00:29:42.900
And there's a reason, I think, that they've used it.

343
00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:54.119
They use it as the kind of hero image on TARDIS IKEA for this episode of, you know, and they use it very prominently in next week's previously on reprise montage thing.

344
00:29:54.180 --> 00:29:56.460
It looks so incredibly striking.

345
00:29:56.519 --> 00:30:03.000
And the fact that it is a pillar of fire rather than some sort of space beam is actually the right thing to do.

346
00:30:03.059 --> 00:30:06.539
Like, even it looked like a transporter effect or something like that.

347
00:30:06.599 --> 00:30:09.480
And we don't even, we don't even talk in those terms.

348
00:30:09.539 --> 00:30:13.859
Like last week when Bridget was wondering how they were going to get into the tank.

349
00:30:13.920 --> 00:30:19.380
You know, we don't say, oh, they'll beam in using a teleport because that's a Doctor Who thing.

350
00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:20.940
They just don't say.

351
00:30:21.420 --> 00:30:26.940
The point you made about the appropriateness of the pillar of fire, the biblical nature of it.

352
00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:28.259
They are kind of like gods.

353
00:30:28.680 --> 00:30:37.259
And they are visiting some sort of biblical, not judgement because, you know, they're doing it for their own purposes.

354
00:30:37.319 --> 00:30:42.359
Yeah, it's not an act of God, but it is, it's a biblical kind of thing.

355
00:30:42.420 --> 00:30:50.460
You know, like taking 10% like destroying 10% of a population, eating 10% of a population, not whatever they're paying to do with them.

356
00:30:50.940 --> 00:30:53.460
I mean, God kills a lot of children.

357
00:30:53.519 --> 00:30:56.339
Yeah, it's mad for it.

358
00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:57.180
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

359
00:30:57.240 --> 00:30:58.319
It is like literally a thing.

360
00:30:58.380 --> 00:30:59.640
It's what the Passover is about.

361
00:30:59.700 --> 00:31:04.079
All of the firstborn children of the Egyptians are killed by God.

362
00:31:04.259 --> 00:31:11.460
And again, that has to be a thing that is being referenced or thought about here by the writers, surely.

363
00:31:11.579 --> 00:31:21.059
And also diagetically, like the 456 are drama queens, they want to implicate you in the loudest way possible and they want the world scared.

364
00:31:21.119 --> 00:31:30.359
I also think they've gone crazy on this one big special effect because everything else is being done practically in the show.

365
00:31:30.420 --> 00:31:32.700
They're not really using many visual effects.

366
00:31:32.759 --> 00:31:35.940
So it's like, oh, we've got heaps left over in the budget.

367
00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:38.220
Let's really go to town on the fire pillar.

368
00:31:38.279 --> 00:31:40.500
Because, I mean, it's just a giant puppet, isn't it?

369
00:31:40.500 --> 00:31:43.500
The fore 456 is just a really, really impressive puppet.

370
00:31:43.559 --> 00:31:44.579
That doesn't have to be...

371
00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:45.539
And it's mostly in smoke.

372
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:51.359
Because you're mostly in smoke. that's right Just think what we would think of the Scarasan if it had been mostly in smoke.

373
00:31:51.720 --> 00:31:54.900
Imagine if it was a foggy day.

374
00:31:54.960 --> 00:31:58.619
Just think how much better legend of the sea devils would be if we couldn't see it.

375
00:31:59.039 --> 00:32:00.660
Imagine.

376
00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:01.920
It's a great audio plan.

377
00:32:02.640 --> 00:32:05.880
When you can't see it's Super Marioing into the boat.

378
00:32:15.900 --> 00:32:18.839
We haven't talked about Kush Jumbo enough because I love her so much.

379
00:32:18.900 --> 00:32:20.579
When are we doing the Kush Jumbo podcast?

380
00:32:20.700 --> 00:32:21.480
Wow, are we doing it now?

381
00:32:21.539 --> 00:32:23.339
doing for the last 2.5 weeks?

382
00:32:23.400 --> 00:32:25.680
She's great in this, isn't she?

383
00:32:25.740 --> 00:32:26.759
I mean, she's so good.

384
00:32:26.819 --> 00:32:28.079
She is really, really good.

385
00:32:28.140 --> 00:32:30.900
And like a lot of it, like a lot of it is just done.

386
00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:33.720
There's something about her facial expression.

387
00:32:33.779 --> 00:32:44.519
There's the moment, isn't there where she's watching the Prime Minister on television, talking about looking after the children and things.

388
00:32:44.579 --> 00:32:57.960
And everyone's watching it at her work and the camera goes across and we see her watching it as well, but she makes it very clear that she's thinking about what she's learned about how this government works.

389
00:32:58.019 --> 00:33:07.140
Like she already knows that the government has killed people in order to try and hush this stuff up.

390
00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:11.640
And so she's already disillusioned, but it's everywhere on her face.

391
00:33:11.700 --> 00:33:18.299
And the other thing too, is that bit where she has to try and get herself allowed into Thames house.

392
00:33:18.299 --> 00:33:24.059
And she does that by telling Bridget that she's having an affair with Frobisher.

393
00:33:24.119 --> 00:33:27.480
And she's super embarrassed about having to do that.

394
00:33:27.539 --> 00:33:29.940
Like, she's really awkward about that.

395
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:42.180
And the implication from Bridget that she has also had an affair with him and it ended badly, but they still work together and she's kind of the harbouring...

396
00:33:42.359 --> 00:33:44.160
Yeah, the first.

397
00:33:44.220 --> 00:33:45.720
Don't think you're the first.

398
00:33:45.839 --> 00:33:50.579
I also just love all the little glances between them throughout the episode.

399
00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:58.859
Like, when Lois is manoeuvring herself to see Peter Capaldi's mouth, she is the only person who notices Lois doing that.

400
00:33:58.980 --> 00:34:01.500
Yeah, yeah, Bridget Bridget's all over it.

401
00:34:01.559 --> 00:34:03.960
And of course, that pays off in episode five.

402
00:34:04.019 --> 00:34:06.240
Like, I think that what happens in episode five.

403
00:34:06.299 --> 00:34:14.760
There's that interesting visit where she visits Lois in prison, where Bridget visits Lois in prison, and there's that whole speech.

404
00:34:14.820 --> 00:34:25.980
And I don't think the story really hugely emphasises the prior relationship between Bridget and Frobisher, but it's strongly hinted at here.

405
00:34:26.039 --> 00:34:28.440
But I don't think episode 5 works.

406
00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:32.519
And the eventual kind of resolution that Bridget is involved in.

407
00:34:32.579 --> 00:34:37.320
I don't think any of that works without the knowledge of that relationship, I think.

408
00:34:37.380 --> 00:34:41.039
Can you imagine how much poorer that would have been if they had got Prima to be, Martha?

409
00:34:41.099 --> 00:34:42.719
You can't do that with her.

410
00:34:42.780 --> 00:34:43.320
God.

411
00:34:43.380 --> 00:34:44.099
No.

412
00:34:44.219 --> 00:34:48.119
The other reason we talked about this before and Sandra brings this up.

413
00:34:48.179 --> 00:34:51.659
It's because Martha comes from a world where there are aliens.

414
00:34:51.719 --> 00:34:52.860
Yeah.

415
00:34:52.860 --> 00:34:59.039
And Lois does it. like Lois just comes from the world where you catch the buster work for your 1st day on Monday.

416
00:34:59.099 --> 00:35:13.559
You know, like, and so her heroism comes out of just being a kind of good person who doesn't have any special powers or any kind of plot magic or anything like that, hasn't survived alien attacks.

417
00:35:13.619 --> 00:35:16.380
You know, this is her seeing an alien for the 1st time.

418
00:35:17.280 --> 00:35:20.820
Martha's role would have had to be significantly different.

419
00:35:20.880 --> 00:35:23.699
And I do think that Lois is better.

420
00:35:23.820 --> 00:35:28.380
At this point, Martha has also worked with Torchwood.

421
00:35:28.440 --> 00:35:32.039
So how would she infiltrate the government if there were those connections between...

422
00:35:32.039 --> 00:35:33.719
Yeah, everyone would have known who she was.

423
00:35:33.780 --> 00:35:35.340
Yeah, she would have been one of the people they were trying to kill.

424
00:35:35.400 --> 00:35:38.340
I mean, there would have had to have been a significant rewrite.

425
00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:44.039
Like, but I think that I think that Martha, and like possibly Mickey was going to be in it as well at one point.

426
00:35:44.099 --> 00:35:58.139
I just think that that's too many space people. you know, the fact that that most of our, that all of our series 3 regulars, apart from the main Tortured crew, are just normal people doing their jobs.

427
00:35:58.199 --> 00:36:07.619
Can I just say when she's looking up the torchwood thing, it might have been an episode one, but I noticed a factual error, which I very rarely noticed because I'm too excited by the story.

428
00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:13.559
On the screen, it said HRH Queen Victoria, and the monarch is never HRH.

429
00:36:13.619 --> 00:36:14.639
That's all the other royals.

430
00:36:14.699 --> 00:36:15.360
Ah yes.

431
00:36:16.079 --> 00:36:18.179
Monarch is HM.

432
00:36:19.019 --> 00:36:22.079
It's always Her Majesty, not Her Royal Highness.

433
00:36:22.139 --> 00:36:22.860
Thank you very much.

434
00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:23.579
There you go.

435
00:36:23.639 --> 00:36:25.079
HRH is everyone else.

436
00:36:25.139 --> 00:36:26.219
The end of the monarchy.

437
00:36:26.280 --> 00:36:26.940
Things that I know.

438
00:36:28.019 --> 00:36:30.360
I've ruined it for everyone now.

439
00:36:31.440 --> 00:36:40.500
So it's also, I noticed another sort of error in the dialogue, which is the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland, from Frobisher halfway through the episode.

440
00:36:40.559 --> 00:36:41.940
Instead of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?

441
00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:42.719
United Kingdom.

442
00:36:42.780 --> 00:36:44.340
Oh, of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

443
00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:45.179
Whoops.

444
00:36:45.239 --> 00:36:47.099
I mean, he's nervous and Scottish.

445
00:36:47.280 --> 00:36:51.420
That's obviously the script editor needed to do a bit further work.

446
00:36:51.719 --> 00:37:04.559
That is actually something that I'm thinking about, and I actually was very impressed about war between, is it emphasised slightly more of the degree to which any representative will be given, you know, scripts to read as opposed to actually being able to have an agency.

447
00:37:04.619 --> 00:37:12.599
There's not as much of a sense of that here, which I suppose makes Probisher feel more isolated, but he would be reading a script, wouldn't he?

448
00:37:12.659 --> 00:37:14.219
You'd think so.

449
00:37:14.280 --> 00:37:17.159
But he's a he's a public servant.

450
00:37:17.219 --> 00:37:19.199
He'd be writing this group, so we might as well deliver it.

451
00:37:19.260 --> 00:37:24.239
It's like sending Sir Humphrey to meet some evil alien, isn't it?

452
00:37:24.300 --> 00:37:27.840
except so Humphrey probably would have actually come out of it better.

453
00:37:27.900 --> 00:37:29.639
There is that thing.

454
00:37:29.699 --> 00:37:34.860
We've had this in the previous episode as well where Frobisher is expendable.

455
00:37:35.519 --> 00:37:55.019
And all of that stuff where, you know, it's kind of like the Americans are mad at the English for having this sort of prior contact with the 456 and and even before, I think, anything comes out about the 456 having visited England before.

456
00:37:55.079 --> 00:38:13.440
It's the same sort of beat as the end of series 3 where the president of America has words with the master. for unilaterally, like, you know, forming some sort of alliance with with an alien race.

457
00:38:13.500 --> 00:38:14.099
Yeah.

458
00:38:14.159 --> 00:38:14.639
Yeah.

459
00:38:14.699 --> 00:38:17.940
It's sort of that ongoing struggle.

460
00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:27.059
Doctor Who and related media have of, they are fundamentally sort of British nationalist television, but they're written by people who are also fundamentally sceptical of that.

461
00:38:27.119 --> 00:38:33.840
And usually the way they settle that tension is just by punching Americans, which is kind of the easiest move to diffuse that.

462
00:38:35.519 --> 00:38:39.719
Although the American guy seems to be in the riety. doesn't he?

463
00:38:39.780 --> 00:38:41.219
Yeah, he certainly does seem to be.

464
00:38:42.239 --> 00:38:43.260
He seems to win.

465
00:38:43.320 --> 00:38:45.539
Yeah, he has righteous anger.

466
00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:46.619
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

467
00:38:46.679 --> 00:38:57.719
But Green does actually use him, doesn't he, to kind of say, oh, all right, I won't go in the room and negotiate and we'll just let the very expendable John Frobisher do that instead?

468
00:38:57.780 --> 00:39:06.599
So it does end up being what Green wanted anyway. what he basically said he was going to do to Frobisher yesterday.

469
00:39:06.719 --> 00:39:10.920
And there's that great line, you don't become prime minister by accident.

470
00:39:10.980 --> 00:39:13.139
Yeah, yeah. around that point.

471
00:39:13.199 --> 00:39:16.619
It's, yeah, it's he is really a villain.

472
00:39:16.679 --> 00:39:17.760
Yeah, 0 yeah, no.

473
00:39:17.820 --> 00:39:20.639
All the prime ministers are realistically.

474
00:39:20.699 --> 00:39:22.800
Or dead in a cupboard.

475
00:39:22.860 --> 00:39:23.760
Yeah, both.

476
00:39:23.820 --> 00:39:27.239
Usually 1st one, then the other in RTDs, Doctor Who.

477
00:39:27.300 --> 00:39:28.619
I think that's the thing.

478
00:39:28.679 --> 00:39:30.179
I miss about RTD.

479
00:39:30.239 --> 00:39:33.179
The 1st go around is he let his cynicism lead him a bit more.

480
00:39:33.239 --> 00:39:41.099
He talked a lot in interviews prior to the newer era where he felt the world was so dark he wanted Doctor Who to be a more comforting force.

481
00:39:41.159 --> 00:39:45.900
And I get that impulse, but he's just a better writer when he's a miserable bastard.

482
00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:47.159
Yeah, yeah.

483
00:39:47.219 --> 00:39:51.539
And also in some ways, that citizen helps you feel less alone.

484
00:39:51.599 --> 00:39:59.039
That's one of the things I enjoy about Russell's version, Doctor Who the 1st time around, is the, oh, I have that same sort of cynicism about the world.

485
00:39:59.099 --> 00:40:00.539
I'm not alone in feeling that.

486
00:40:00.599 --> 00:40:01.559
Yeah.

487
00:40:01.559 --> 00:40:04.860
So in some ways, that is the comfort.

488
00:40:04.920 --> 00:40:07.139
The comfort is the shared cynicism.

489
00:40:07.199 --> 00:40:10.980
I feel like he stopped writing subtext after the 1st season.

490
00:40:11.039 --> 00:40:16.800
Like the 1st season with Christopher Eccleston has so much subtext baked into it.

491
00:40:16.860 --> 00:40:20.579
Like each episode has like this deep other story behind it.

492
00:40:20.639 --> 00:40:30.059
Like even to the point of the long game being very much a critique on news media and hoarding power and all that kind of thing.

493
00:40:30.119 --> 00:40:32.460
Like everything has like a 2nd layer to it.

494
00:40:32.519 --> 00:40:36.599
But from season 2 one was just like, no, no, I've just got to tell the story and get home.

495
00:40:36.659 --> 00:40:51.599
I mean, I think we've sort of said this before on flight to entirety, at least, that like season one is being done in the dark, they have no idea what it's going to be like, and then suddenly they're this giant hit, and they decide we don't need to be tentative anymore.

496
00:40:51.659 --> 00:41:11.280
And then, of course, this thing, tortured children of earth, where they're able to commandeer, like at 5 consecutive nights on BBC one at 9 PM, and where this stupid show, which had sort of 4000000 viewers were sort of bumbling along at 4000000 viewers, suddenly getting kind of 6000000 viewers and becoming a big thing.

497
00:41:11.340 --> 00:41:21.599
Um, you know, like this is, like I love that 1st era as well of RTD and I'm also kind of a big fan of RTD too.

498
00:41:21.659 --> 00:41:32.340
But this, I think, you know, in a way is kind of their crowning achievement in the sense that it's the longest Doctor Who story basically ever.

499
00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:35.099
It's got a massive cast.

500
00:41:35.159 --> 00:41:37.019
It's really hugely ambitious.

501
00:41:37.079 --> 00:41:47.760
Uh, it strives to get the kind of a level of realism and a level of kind of everyday life in there that Doctor Who sometimes doesn't get.

502
00:41:47.820 --> 00:41:49.800
The stuff with Rihanna.

503
00:41:49.860 --> 00:41:51.059
Oh my god.

504
00:41:51.059 --> 00:41:51.719
This week.

505
00:41:51.780 --> 00:41:53.219
That bit.

506
00:41:53.280 --> 00:42:00.599
So, so we go to her house and she's she's cleaning some kid who's got food or something.

507
00:42:00.659 --> 00:42:01.920
She's got the children.

508
00:42:01.980 --> 00:42:10.019
And it's Johnny's idea to charge 10 quid ahead and she doesn't like it, but the moment a kid throws up on himself or something.

509
00:42:10.079 --> 00:42:11.519
And she's washing the clothes.

510
00:42:11.579 --> 00:42:13.739
She said, tell your mum it's another 2 quid.

511
00:42:14.639 --> 00:42:19.440
And that's when, like, that's the point at which the children are all pointing.

512
00:42:19.500 --> 00:42:33.900
And I have to say, and I will say this again later because it continues to be the case, Misha is the single best child when it comes to doing scary possessed by aliens acting.

513
00:42:33.900 --> 00:42:35.159
She's so great.

514
00:42:35.219 --> 00:42:40.559
She's like this little kid with pigtails who absolutely throws herself into it.

515
00:42:40.619 --> 00:42:43.739
She does the best scream in episode one.

516
00:42:43.800 --> 00:42:49.320
She's fiercely pointing at her mother with her beetled brown. and stuff.

517
00:42:49.380 --> 00:42:50.219
She's so great.

518
00:42:51.179 --> 00:42:57.059
Like, in episode 2 or episode three, by a sapone.

519
00:42:57.119 --> 00:42:59.579
Bias Sapono. was very funny.

520
00:42:59.639 --> 00:43:00.539
That was, yeah.

521
00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:02.039
That's not mission.

522
00:43:02.099 --> 00:43:05.340
Okay, I have to say an anecdote about that.

523
00:43:05.400 --> 00:43:08.400
Shortly after children of earth aired.

524
00:43:08.460 --> 00:43:12.599
I was at San Diego Comic-Con, which was one of the years Russell T. Davis was at that event.

525
00:43:12.659 --> 00:43:18.360
And I'm running around there as an actual child and I meet Russell T. Davies.

526
00:43:18.420 --> 00:43:21.059
And I tell him, Torchwood was amazing.

527
00:43:21.119 --> 00:43:25.800
And he looks at me like, a horrible crime has just happened.

528
00:43:25.860 --> 00:43:27.900
He's like, oh, you watch Torchwood.

529
00:43:27.960 --> 00:43:29.579
I was like, no, my parents said it was okay.

530
00:43:29.639 --> 00:43:30.239
I loved it.

531
00:43:30.300 --> 00:43:32.519
And then I quoted, we want a pony.

532
00:43:32.579 --> 00:43:38.400
We want a pony, which I did put him at ease that that's what a child took away from that.

533
00:43:40.380 --> 00:43:45.360
I mean, it does work, you know, like it's that Doctor Who thing working on multiple levels as well.

534
00:43:45.420 --> 00:43:52.260
You know, like the incredible spectacle, but the comedy, the hero moments, all of that sort of stuff.

535
00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:56.340
Yanto yesterday with the with the big forklift thing.

536
00:43:56.400 --> 00:44:02.940
Like all of that really fun, silly stuff, the criming, like that's absolutely the sort of thing that you could appreciate.

537
00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:10.079
And then all of the cynicism and all of the darkness in his Doctor Who and here is much more conceptual.

538
00:44:10.139 --> 00:44:12.719
Despite how it sort of gross the 456 are.

539
00:44:12.780 --> 00:44:22.139
But just the fact that what not just what the aliens are going to do to us, but what our own government would do to us and does do to us all the time.

540
00:44:22.139 --> 00:44:22.920
All the time.

541
00:44:22.980 --> 00:44:32.940
It's also, I love how they're foregrounding for the most part, the children that are going to be affected, the children of working class and poor people.

542
00:44:33.000 --> 00:44:34.139
Yeah.

543
00:44:34.139 --> 00:44:34.559
Yeah?

544
00:44:34.679 --> 00:44:43.559
Like the, the, the children that are, that um, and her sister and her husband are looking after are the children that they decide in later episodes that they're going to give.

545
00:44:43.619 --> 00:44:44.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

546
00:44:44.579 --> 00:45:03.420
Like, it's just, I've got to say, like, I love that they're using Katie Wicks, who plays Yanto sister in this, like, she's so gloriously, uh, working class and amazingly horrific and, you know, but then really maternal looking after all those kids.

547
00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:08.519
And it's, I'm so, like it took me, like, I've watched, so this is the 3rd one now.

548
00:45:08.579 --> 00:45:09.119
I've watched it.

549
00:45:09.179 --> 00:45:14.579
It took me 3 episodes to go, oh, she's the officious woman from Ted Lesson.

550
00:45:14.639 --> 00:45:15.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

551
00:45:15.539 --> 00:45:23.880
It didn't register for ages because again, so many great performers in this show playing characters that we haven't seen them play anywhere else before.

552
00:45:23.940 --> 00:45:28.440
It's just, yeah, the cast is really phenomenal.

553
00:45:28.500 --> 00:45:31.800
Like every single person is kind of batting a 100.

554
00:45:32.099 --> 00:45:39.480
Even the guy that's doing, you know, building the cage that is just sort of like sneakily looking off everywhere all the time.

555
00:45:39.599 --> 00:45:44.280
So we said last week that we actually have 3 classes, don't we?

556
00:45:44.340 --> 00:45:49.920
We have like a permanent undersecretary, Frobisher and his wife, Anna, who live in a big house.

557
00:45:49.980 --> 00:45:51.420
We see the exterior of the house.

558
00:45:51.480 --> 00:45:57.719
We get the more middle class, Alice and Stephen, uh, in that other house.

559
00:45:57.780 --> 00:46:01.440
And then we get the working class, you know, Rhiannon and Johnny and their kids.

560
00:46:01.500 --> 00:46:10.199
And in fact, they're the kids who go on the run from the army who are snatching children off the street in episode five.

561
00:46:23.460 --> 00:46:33.719
Yeah, I actually just watched this episode in isolation without the rest of Children of Earth, which felt very wrong. very fundamentally unnatural.

562
00:46:33.780 --> 00:46:38.039
It is very strange to do that as a Doctor Who fan.

563
00:46:38.099 --> 00:46:47.760
But also just the fact that, you know, the episodes don't get individual titles, really, the fact that they air on consecutive nights, that each one of them covers a day's action.

564
00:46:47.820 --> 00:46:50.099
It is completely serialised.

565
00:46:50.159 --> 00:46:52.019
It's like Planet of the Spiders.

566
00:46:52.079 --> 00:46:59.579
It's not like Tortured Series 4 or Doctor Who series 3 or anything like that that tells an overarching story.

567
00:46:59.639 --> 00:47:03.300
It is just a single story, you know, really sort of strong way.

568
00:47:03.360 --> 00:47:10.980
And although this does have that individual that sort of trajectory that Jack goes on as well as the arrival of the 456.

569
00:47:11.159 --> 00:47:12.900
There is a particular thing that happens here.

570
00:47:12.960 --> 00:47:16.920
It does really kind of merge into the whole thing, I think.

571
00:47:17.039 --> 00:47:23.400
Yeah, genuinely, if you had put a gun to my head or asked me, where does this episode specifically start and end?

572
00:47:23.460 --> 00:47:25.139
I would have given you the complete wrong answer?

573
00:47:25.199 --> 00:47:27.059
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

574
00:47:27.119 --> 00:47:39.360
I wonder if this is Russell trying to recapture that, um, feeling that kids of the 80s had watching Doctor Who when in the UK it was, was it like Monday, Tuesday or Tuesday, Wednesday?

575
00:47:39.420 --> 00:47:44.099
And so like that would get a cliffhanger and then the very next day was the next episode.

576
00:47:44.159 --> 00:47:45.840
Like we had it in Australia all the time.

577
00:47:45.900 --> 00:47:48.659
That was our experience of watching Doctor Who.

578
00:47:48.719 --> 00:47:51.840
So watching Children of Earth for me was just like, oh, it's the old days.

579
00:47:51.900 --> 00:47:58.559
You get the cliffhanger, then the next day, the story, then you cliffhanger, and the next day, the story, and you got 5 days of fun.

580
00:47:58.679 --> 00:48:00.059
And then the goodies.

581
00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:01.739
And then the goodies. was before.

582
00:48:01.800 --> 00:48:06.420
But it was also, it's also, I think, the experience of just spending a long time with people.

583
00:48:06.480 --> 00:48:21.239
Like, I think that when the show came back in 2005, it was inevitably going to be 45 minute episodes that were whole story. tune in every week for part of a story, still less a quarter of a story.

584
00:48:21.300 --> 00:48:22.320
That's madness.

585
00:48:22.380 --> 00:48:23.400
Like who wants that?

586
00:48:23.699 --> 00:48:33.900
But what you lose is having a big guest cast in a story, which we get to have here and having a story told over a period of time.

587
00:48:33.960 --> 00:48:53.820
And, you know, this has a lot of the same kind of vibe as, I think, season 7 of classic Peru, where, you know, you spend 3 hours with a group of people who all have their own relationships with each other, who interact, who have their own arcs and things.

588
00:48:53.880 --> 00:48:57.960
And then there's a big problem on earth that has some kind of scale to it.

589
00:48:58.019 --> 00:49:02.340
Like it does seem like the Silurians or ambassadors of death or something.

590
00:49:02.519 --> 00:49:06.179
There's even a big capture escape with Jack in the 2nd episode.

591
00:49:06.239 --> 00:49:08.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.

592
00:49:08.940 --> 00:49:11.280
It is actually like that, isn't it?

593
00:49:11.340 --> 00:49:17.280
It's like the, you know, episode 5 of Invasion of the Dinosaurs where we're just running away for an episode.

594
00:49:17.340 --> 00:49:24.000
But there is enough other stuff going on because we have all of our other characters and their stories developing as well.

595
00:49:24.059 --> 00:49:27.480
It doesn't just seem like we're marking time the way we are.

596
00:49:27.539 --> 00:49:29.400
Oh, no, it feels...

597
00:49:29.400 --> 00:49:31.019
It's more like Liz running over the wheel.

598
00:49:31.139 --> 00:49:33.179
Ambassadors of death.

599
00:49:35.699 --> 00:49:39.900
But again, it's the efficiency here that really makes it shine.

600
00:49:39.960 --> 00:49:46.139
You can get the thrills of the capture escape to keep the pace off. while juggling 17 other plates with the large cast.

601
00:49:46.199 --> 00:49:49.019
So it never really feels like you're marking time.

602
00:49:49.079 --> 00:49:52.199
It always feels like there's another plot advancing, more attention being built.

603
00:49:52.260 --> 00:50:04.739
I want to talk about one other thing that he's part of Jack's arc, and it is the phone call that he has with Frobisher just before Frobisher goes in and speaks to the 456 that 2nd time.

604
00:50:05.039 --> 00:50:11.340
And it's the one that lands with Frobisher saying that Jack is a good person.

605
00:50:11.820 --> 00:50:14.519
This show will sure prove that wrong.

606
00:50:14.579 --> 00:50:15.659
Yeah, yeah.

607
00:50:15.719 --> 00:50:22.199
I think it's, like, I think it's really properly good because, you know, like Jack is a sort of stupid ludicrous space person.

608
00:50:22.260 --> 00:50:28.679
I mean, he even calls himself a space-time event or something, you know, like a fixed point in time. know, just absolutely absurd.

609
00:50:28.739 --> 00:50:37.619
And Frobisher is a civil servant, you know, like he's just kind of like a sort of fairly normal person who has a family and a car and wife and 2 daughters and stuff.

610
00:50:37.679 --> 00:50:44.219
But Frobis is evil and acknowledges that he's evil in a way that he sees that Jack isn't.

611
00:50:44.219 --> 00:50:49.440
And I think that that's really properly good and properly interesting.

612
00:50:49.500 --> 00:50:51.780
But then he just says, hold my beer.

613
00:50:51.840 --> 00:51:04.380
I think the show is very interesting in setting that up to prove it wrong, actually, because by the end, we have Jack murdering a child, whereas we get a speech about how John Probisher is a good man.

614
00:51:04.440 --> 00:51:13.920
But even at the end of this episode, we go from Jack being told he's a good man to the discovery that Jack gave the kids to the forefighters.

615
00:51:13.980 --> 00:51:15.179
He's the man that fights the monsters.

616
00:51:15.239 --> 00:51:19.440
This is what he does. then it's like, no, no, no, I like, you know, he was there.

617
00:51:19.500 --> 00:51:23.099
He gave the kids like it's just, 0 my god.

618
00:51:23.159 --> 00:51:25.019
It takes a monster to fight a monster.

619
00:51:25.079 --> 00:51:25.440
You know that.

620
00:51:25.500 --> 00:51:30.300
And it's really properly good too, because that scene at the beginning of day one.

621
00:51:30.360 --> 00:51:32.400
We see no adults at all.

622
00:51:32.460 --> 00:51:39.000
There's a hint, I think, if you look back at it, you might be able to see like Jack's coat or something.

623
00:51:39.059 --> 00:51:44.460
But basically that's a thing that just children do rather than something that's done to them by adults.

624
00:51:44.519 --> 00:51:46.739
The adults are effaced from that version of it.

625
00:51:46.800 --> 00:51:51.659
And so all the way through, we keep going back to that in Clem's flashbacks.

626
00:51:51.780 --> 00:51:54.000
Like he keeps remembering more and more of it.

627
00:51:54.059 --> 00:52:00.179
Until the point just before Jack comes along, I think, that he actually sees that Jack was there.

628
00:52:00.239 --> 00:52:03.719
And there's the moment that even Jack realises he was there.

629
00:52:03.780 --> 00:52:14.639
Like, I thought he was being super shifty when Yanter was mentioning the names of those people who were killed at the same time, but he's not.

630
00:52:14.699 --> 00:52:17.219
I was misreading that or maybe it was just a...

631
00:52:17.219 --> 00:52:18.539
It's just John Perriman trying to act.

632
00:52:18.599 --> 00:52:19.500
Oh my god.

633
00:52:19.559 --> 00:52:20.400
Maybe that was it.

634
00:52:20.460 --> 00:52:21.480
I think that's cool.

635
00:52:21.480 --> 00:52:22.260
You can't act through that.

636
00:52:22.260 --> 00:52:23.039
Botox.

637
00:52:23.099 --> 00:52:23.760
It's real hard.

638
00:52:23.940 --> 00:52:28.679
But he realises like that's when he remembers, isn't it?

639
00:52:28.739 --> 00:52:38.039
Like he gets Yanto to bring up the pictures of the names and then, you know, gets like the internet was so wild. back then in 2009.

640
00:52:38.219 --> 00:52:39.360
Get, you know, there.

641
00:52:39.420 --> 00:52:40.199
Yeah, yeah, that's right.

642
00:52:40.260 --> 00:52:41.400
Now, age them down.

643
00:52:41.880 --> 00:52:42.719
Enhance that quarter.

644
00:52:42.780 --> 00:52:44.400
Make them back in one.

645
00:52:44.460 --> 00:52:46.139
Put them in lodge for uniforms.

646
00:52:46.199 --> 00:52:46.920
That's them.

647
00:52:46.980 --> 00:52:47.579
That's them.

648
00:52:47.639 --> 00:52:51.840
Yeah, and that's when he realises and that's when he heads off, isn't it?

649
00:52:51.960 --> 00:52:52.739
Yeah.

650
00:52:52.800 --> 00:53:04.079
But that's the points at which he's being told that he's a good man by Frobisher after he almost his way of to make sure to sort of persuade him not to go back and do anything with Anna.

651
00:53:04.139 --> 00:53:15.179
But the thing is, the thing that Frobis is threatening to do to Stephen in that phone call is what actually Jack will end up doing to Stephen in the final episode.

652
00:53:16.139 --> 00:53:19.800
It's interesting that Clem can only smell queer people, apparently.

653
00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:25.440
That's not clear our setup there, because he smells yepto. like, he's queer.

654
00:53:25.500 --> 00:53:26.880
Nazi's like, I can smell him.

655
00:53:26.940 --> 00:53:28.440
He's coming about Jack.

656
00:53:28.500 --> 00:53:30.179
He never mentions how Gwen smells.

657
00:53:30.239 --> 00:53:31.679
No, he could smell the pregnancy.

658
00:53:31.800 --> 00:53:35.699
He did smell that she was pregnant. in part one.

659
00:53:35.760 --> 00:53:36.840
So he could smell her.

660
00:53:36.900 --> 00:53:39.599
I really like Yanto's reply, though.

661
00:53:39.659 --> 00:53:43.739
It's just, hey, it's not 1965 now, which I thought was pretty good.

662
00:53:44.219 --> 00:53:46.019
Here's queer.

663
00:53:46.079 --> 00:53:52.019
Like, it's almost a childlike response. like, he's not saying queer as that person is a queer as an insult.

664
00:53:52.079 --> 00:53:53.579
That's the word he knows.

665
00:53:53.579 --> 00:53:56.760
And he silly as a child as this man is still a child.

666
00:53:56.820 --> 00:54:00.059
He's emotionally stunted at that age.

667
00:54:00.119 --> 00:54:03.179
So like, I didn't read it as him being homophobic.

668
00:54:03.239 --> 00:54:07.320
I just read it as him using a word he knows to describe someone who is queer.

669
00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:17.460
Also, Yanto's having trouble in this moment of like not knowing if he's gay, if he's bisexual, if he's jack sexual or what's happening.

670
00:54:17.519 --> 00:54:26.400
So I think it's also a lot of internalised homophobia suddenly coming out of him, like going, it's, you can't say that kind of thing.

671
00:54:26.460 --> 00:54:27.360
It's like, but...

672
00:54:27.420 --> 00:54:29.219
Yeah, like I had actually thought it was worse than that.

673
00:54:29.280 --> 00:54:31.679
And I still think probably it's worse than you. think it is, James.

674
00:54:31.739 --> 00:54:40.260
I do think that he is meant to be, like he's a sympathetic character and someone that we have, you know, like we have a fair amount of pity for.

675
00:54:40.320 --> 00:54:50.940
We see him crying when Gwen turns up to bust him out of the lockup and she has to hug him, even though he smells, I can just tell.

676
00:54:51.000 --> 00:54:55.019
Um, uh, and she, she, yeah.

677
00:54:55.079 --> 00:54:55.440
Yeah.

678
00:54:55.500 --> 00:54:59.219
But he is a sympathetic character and then he comes out with a slur.

679
00:54:59.280 --> 00:55:00.059
Do you know what I mean?

680
00:55:00.119 --> 00:55:02.039
Like, I'm happy to reclaim queer.

681
00:55:02.099 --> 00:55:02.880
I think it's a great word.

682
00:55:02.940 --> 00:55:05.340
I use it to refer to myself all the time.

683
00:55:05.400 --> 00:55:08.400
But it's even saying LGBTQIA.

684
00:55:08.519 --> 00:55:08.760
Exactly.

685
00:55:08.820 --> 00:55:09.300
Exactly.

686
00:55:09.360 --> 00:55:12.300
And so he is using it as a slur.

687
00:55:12.300 --> 00:55:22.559
And I just thought it was kind of interesting for Russell to make us sympathetic with a character who is like a bit awful in it. in at least some way.

688
00:55:22.619 --> 00:55:23.219
Yeah.

689
00:55:23.280 --> 00:55:24.719
It's a very Russell thing to do, though.

690
00:55:24.780 --> 00:55:26.039
I mean, of course it is.

691
00:55:26.099 --> 00:55:28.260
You know, Rose uses gay in a pejorative term.

692
00:55:28.320 --> 00:55:31.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah Like the 2nd episode.

693
00:55:31.079 --> 00:55:34.500
I think I think that's what I love about Russell's characters.

694
00:55:34.559 --> 00:55:37.019
They're never completely sympathetic.

695
00:55:37.079 --> 00:55:39.360
They never completely unflawed.

696
00:55:39.420 --> 00:55:42.599
No, they're never good in the evil shades.

697
00:55:42.659 --> 00:55:43.260
Yeah.

698
00:55:43.320 --> 00:55:46.800
Shades of gray. well-meaning and not well-meaning.

699
00:55:46.860 --> 00:55:48.179
Yeah, yeah.

700
00:55:48.239 --> 00:55:49.440
Shades of gay.

701
00:55:49.500 --> 00:55:50.880
Shades of gay.

702
00:55:54.719 --> 00:56:00.480
So our 2 plants really come into focus like right at the very end, don't they?

703
00:56:00.539 --> 00:56:09.300
And so we have Jack kind of reaching his low point in that arc and he was blown up at the end of episode one.

704
00:56:09.360 --> 00:56:12.239
So he's... blow point.

705
00:56:12.300 --> 00:56:14.039
Yeah. blowpoint.

706
00:56:14.099 --> 00:56:21.420
And the thing that the thing that's really good, I think the thing that ties the 2 plot threads together is just the use of the word gift.

707
00:56:21.480 --> 00:56:35.760
So this is Jack admitting, even though he wasn't in the room, he uses the same word that the 456 used to describe what they want from humanity, which is the children they want, a gift.

708
00:56:35.880 --> 00:56:42.599
And then when Jack comes in, he says, I gave the 12 children to the 456 in 1965 as a gift.

709
00:56:42.659 --> 00:56:50.340
Just to understand how he's not put that together until now, even in the 1st episode when the kids have started doing stuff.

710
00:56:50.460 --> 00:56:54.059
Yeah, but this is a guy who's lived 100s and 100s of years.

711
00:56:54.119 --> 00:57:02.579
Like, I, I, like, whenever it comes up in my stupid solo podcast where it's like, oh, how can the doctor not know this?

712
00:57:02.639 --> 00:57:12.179
Like, I think I was talking about the, um, the story in the engine and how does the doctor remember being the fugitive doctor?

713
00:57:12.239 --> 00:57:16.679
And it's like, those memories might be in there, but he's had 1000s of years of memory.

714
00:57:16.739 --> 00:57:19.199
Who knows when they're going to pop up?

715
00:57:19.260 --> 00:57:21.840
Like, the doctor doesn't have the memory of a fan.

716
00:57:22.800 --> 00:57:32.460
Well, also, the 456 didn't have this modus operandi before, you know, last time they showed up, they just wanted kids and they're like, here, we're going to cure the flu for you.

717
00:57:32.519 --> 00:57:43.739
Which, honestly, if we're going to nitpick, it's very writerly to have the tab Jack say gift, when really, in no way was a gift, it was a trade.

718
00:57:43.800 --> 00:57:47.159
Yeah, but it is deliberately that, isn't it?

719
00:57:47.219 --> 00:57:48.840
is trying to tie them together.

720
00:57:48.900 --> 00:57:53.159
And it's sort of rather wonderful, I think, to have the 456 use that word.

721
00:57:53.159 --> 00:57:59.820
And then have him come in, not having heard that, and use the same word.

722
00:57:59.940 --> 00:58:02.280
But also the way he talks to Frobisher.

723
00:58:02.340 --> 00:58:07.019
He goes, if this is who it's meant to be, you know that they don't stick to their word.

724
00:58:07.019 --> 00:58:11.820
Because obviously it implies that the gift was given to just rack off and don't come back.

725
00:58:11.880 --> 00:58:12.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

726
00:58:12.780 --> 00:58:13.019
Yeah.

727
00:58:13.079 --> 00:58:13.860
Exactly.

728
00:58:13.920 --> 00:58:17.159
Yeah, and so, of course, you know, like the 10%.

729
00:58:17.219 --> 00:58:20.519
Do they come back again in 40 years and ask for another 50%?

730
00:58:20.579 --> 00:58:22.679
We just have to kill them at this point.

731
00:58:22.739 --> 00:58:24.059
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

732
00:58:48.119 --> 00:58:50.460
Well, that's all the time we have this week.

733
00:58:50.519 --> 00:58:59.699
We'll be back next week to work out just whose children are going to fill the home office's giant gift pan bar in Torchwood, Children of Earth, day four.

734
00:58:59.760 --> 00:59:18.840
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us on our website, 500yearDiary.com, where you'll find our social media links, as well as links to all of our other podcasts, including the entirety of flight through entirety, which includes every episode of our 4 Doctor Who podcasts.

735
00:59:19.260 --> 00:59:29.039
Until next time, remember that when you turn up to a friend's place for dinner, a bottle of wine is a gift likely to go down much better than 10% of a child.

736
00:59:29.159 --> 00:59:32.039
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

737
00:59:32.099 --> 00:59:32.940
Good night.

738
00:59:33.000 --> 00:59:34.199
Ta-ta.

739
00:59:34.260 --> 00:59:34.679
Good night.

740
00:59:45.000 --> 00:59:51.360
That was 500 year diary, starring Nathan Bottomley, Kevin Bernard, Adam Richard, and James Selwood.

741
00:59:51.420 --> 00:59:54.300
The theme was composed by Cameron Lamb.

742
00:59:54.360 --> 01:00:00.659
This episode, nervous and Scottish, was recorded on the 7th of March, 2026 and released on the 29th of March.

743
01:00:04.260 --> 01:00:09.000
This week, we'd like to thank our newest sponsor, GastroStop.

744
01:00:09.059 --> 01:00:22.800
If you're invading an alien planet to demand the surrender of 35000000 of their children, do it with the confidence only gastro stop can provide, now available in chewable mint flavour that you can take without water or hydrochloric acid.

745
01:00:31.920 --> 01:00:39.659
Incidentally, I just have to ask, have you guys seen the news about what's happened in Cardiff recently evolving Torchwood?

746
01:00:39.719 --> 01:00:48.000
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. and Melvin actually just posted. because he was on, uh, he was on, uh, well, episode two.

747
01:00:48.059 --> 01:00:48.960
I think he was on last week.

748
01:00:49.019 --> 01:00:53.280
And he was talking about the shrine coming down.

749
01:00:53.280 --> 01:01:03.300
And of course, um, Gareth, was he on, um, he like posted something on Instagram or something, like talking about it, which was kind of sweet.

750
01:01:03.360 --> 01:01:05.820
Yeah, like it is kind of sweet.

751
01:01:05.880 --> 01:01:06.539
It was insane.

752
01:01:06.599 --> 01:01:07.500
It was always insane.

753
01:01:07.559 --> 01:01:13.679
And we will talk about it because obviously he dies in in a couple a couple of episodes time.

754
01:01:14.639 --> 01:01:17.400
Yeah, he's not going to be fine.

755
01:01:17.460 --> 01:01:19.800
Don't spoil this rewatch podcast.

756
01:01:20.219 --> 01:01:25.139
But, but it's, I, for one, I'm very mad, Russell, at Barry Argaze.

757
01:01:25.199 --> 01:01:26.760
Yeah, and that was it.

758
01:01:26.820 --> 01:01:28.619
There was a huge bury our gaze thing.

759
01:01:28.679 --> 01:01:29.340
Do you know what I mean?

760
01:01:29.400 --> 01:01:33.239
It's like Russell's, you know, like Russell's killing the gay character and this is an outrage.

761
01:01:33.300 --> 01:01:45.659
And for me, like I just thought, oh, you know, like this elevates that relationship and becomes like a giant operatic thing, do you know what it means?

762
01:01:45.719 --> 01:01:46.440
like a giant loss.

763
01:01:46.500 --> 01:01:48.239
It's, you know, they freed Janto.

764
01:01:48.300 --> 01:02:01.199
But, but he, um, but, you know, like Jack's feelings about that are hugely important for the rest of the thing, that's a hugely important consequential relationship, it's not just a fling.

765
01:02:01.260 --> 01:02:04.739
It, you know, it, it, it, it, some, it's a big deal.

766
01:02:04.860 --> 01:02:09.300
And why can't the gay characters have that in the thing?

767
01:02:09.360 --> 01:02:12.719
And why can't Yanto die heroically, you know, trying to do something.

768
01:02:14.159 --> 01:02:18.239
Also, quite frankly, is the 1st time their relationship's ever been taken seriously.

769
01:02:18.300 --> 01:02:19.079
Yeah.

770
01:02:19.139 --> 01:02:19.860
Yeah.

771
01:02:19.920 --> 01:02:21.719
Yeah, no, it becomes a proper thing.

772
01:02:21.780 --> 01:02:35.579
And in fact, that episode, you know, we'll talk about it in a few weeks time, but the, the, you know, Gwen's reaction, the, the, all the bodies in that room in Thames house and and Yanto's there.

773
01:02:35.639 --> 01:02:37.920
Like it's it's really good.

774
01:02:37.980 --> 01:02:39.480
Like, I think it's properly good.

775
01:02:39.480 --> 01:02:44.159
And, and, like, you know, it's a TV show and whatever.

776
01:02:44.219 --> 01:02:48.239
But like being affected by a TV show is one of the reasons that you watch it.

777
01:02:48.300 --> 01:02:58.800
I mean, one of the reasons that this is good, is that it does manage to do that. over and over again as well, in all sorts of different ways and different contexts, all the stuff about children.

778
01:02:58.860 --> 01:03:05.039
Like, you know, the people who have joined or are going to be joining us on these podcasts who have children.

779
01:03:05.099 --> 01:03:13.800
Like talking to them about what the experience of watching these is like when, you know, you've looked after children or cared for them or whatever.

780
01:03:13.800 --> 01:03:15.300
We do offer counselling.

781
01:03:15.360 --> 01:03:17.400
Yeah, yeah, we do.

782
01:03:17.400 --> 01:03:18.360
I'm very sympathetic.

783
01:03:18.420 --> 01:03:21.840
Yeah, if you've been affected by issues raised in this podcast.

784
01:03:22.739 --> 01:03:24.119
Yeah.

785
01:03:24.179 --> 01:03:25.860
Anyway, that's all.

786
01:03:25.860 --> 01:03:28.019
Yeah, yeah.

787
01:03:28.079 --> 01:03:36.179
Anyway, maybe that's a tag. to be funny about, like, and not feel guilty about something so dark.

788
01:03:36.719 --> 01:03:40.860
Yeah, but the show doesn't care about being funny about it. you know what I mean?

789
01:03:40.920 --> 01:03:42.239
It's Russell.

790
01:03:42.300 --> 01:03:48.539
Russell's funny about things that are funny and anything that's, you know, that is going to be blackly funny is just black.

791
01:03:48.599 --> 01:03:49.920
It doesn't.

792
01:03:49.980 --> 01:03:51.539
He doesn't go there.

793
01:03:51.599 --> 01:03:54.179
He's just like, no, no, I'm just going to let you sit in your discomfort.

794
01:03:54.239 --> 01:03:55.500
Because more footwheel.

795
01:03:55.559 --> 01:03:57.420
Wait, like he'll always crack wise, I think.

796
01:03:57.480 --> 01:03:58.440
Yes.

797
01:03:58.440 --> 01:04:03.360
But Russell, yeah, he sort of drops it a bit.

798
01:04:03.420 --> 01:04:06.599
Like the, like, I mean, it is satire, isn't it?

799
01:04:06.659 --> 01:04:13.739
Like these these satire and particularly that just sort of exaggerated stuff like with Denise at the end and stuff, but it's only barely satire.

800
01:04:13.800 --> 01:04:25.199
I mean, yeah, I, no, I, I'm just thinking about how in 2009, when this came out, it was, everything was, it was paedophile everything.

801
01:04:25.260 --> 01:04:41.039
Like, and there was that huge scandal with brass eye, you know, making jokes about paedophilia and you couldn't really talk about it and it was, but it was on every, the front of every newspaper and people had to go and knock on doors because when they were 19, they had sex with a 17 year old.

802
01:04:41.159 --> 01:04:45.539
And so now that's their job, every time they move is that they're a sexual predator.

803
01:04:45.599 --> 01:04:48.360
So it was like a huge big thing that was going on.

804
01:04:48.420 --> 01:04:54.840
So it was, on some level, it does feel like, you know, look, this is what you think of a paedophile.

805
01:04:54.900 --> 01:04:56.880
Like it's a monster that's spewed.

806
01:04:56.880 --> 01:04:59.219
Goop into a room.

807
01:04:59.579 --> 01:05:05.340
But I'm also thinking just about how England does have...

808
01:05:05.400 --> 01:05:18.179
I mean, like all of our countries who, but England, in particular, has these sort of underclass that is just kind of that sales beneath, you know, like that doesn't get assistance of people who live on the estate, you know, the people.

809
01:05:18.239 --> 01:05:19.079
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

810
01:05:19.139 --> 01:05:21.000
And that's historical.

811
01:05:21.059 --> 01:05:24.659
Like that's ever since they were plans ever since they were working the land.

812
01:05:24.719 --> 01:05:28.440
There have always been, England has always had a class of people that were disposable.

813
01:05:28.500 --> 01:05:37.980
And, but now we feel like we're morally superior and we wouldn't do that, but this show is basically going... you know what I mean?

814
01:05:38.039 --> 01:05:41.340
It's not just that we would do it if aliens come along, but we're doing it already.

815
01:05:41.400 --> 01:05:42.539
All the time.

816
01:05:42.599 --> 01:05:55.920
Yeah, and the fact that you have that mention of the league tables, which is so brutal, might be the best line of the thing. you know, what are the school league tables for law then, you know, so good.

817
01:05:56.880 --> 01:05:58.500
So great.

818
01:05:58.559 --> 01:05:59.639
It's so good.

819
01:05:59.699 --> 01:06:00.900
Just, um...