WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-05-03 at 08:52:20

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to 500 Year Diary, the only

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Doctor Who podcast that spent the 1990s mostly smelling of

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eternity by Calvin Klein.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Adam.

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I'm James.

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I'm Kevin.

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It's Wednesday the 8th of July, 2009.

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It's been just 23 hours since the big tank was unveiled on floor

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13 of Thames House, and tonight, nearly 6 million.

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People have tuned in to watch the 456 appear inside it.

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Let's see if they have any surprising requests to make, as we

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discuss Torchwood, Children of Earth, day three.

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So, Kevin, I have actually never heard you talk about Torchwood

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and I have no idea what you think of it.

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So how did you feel about children of earth going in?

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Oh, I love children of earth.

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It was actually the 1st torch what I was allowed to watch given my

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rather young age. at the time.

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I mean, I've got to be honest, it's a lot less outrageous than

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stuff in the previous 2 seasons.

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I think if you're going to start a child on it, existential

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despair is probably a better place to start than sex gas.

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Like, I'll be honest, as a kid, I really wanted to know what was

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up with his ex-gas.

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I kind of love the sex guest episode.

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Oh, I'm very...

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Is the 6th guess episode the root and pop one?

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Yeah, mission pop.

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And then did you go back and enjoy earlier seasons?

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Eventually I did.

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Yeah.

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It took a little while to get around to being able to sneak my way

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back, but eventually I made it through all of Torchwood.

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Obviously, the 1st 2 seasons are a roller coaster of wild quality

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swings, but I kind of love that in my Doctor Who.

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I always prefer a run of Doctor Who that's very ambitious and has

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some all-time classics as well as some other shit to something

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that's just sort of even keel, but never really sticks with me.

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So I've got a big soft spot for Torchwood.

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Plus, like, so many people in my generation.

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Kind of the 1st queer representation on TV.

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I ever really saw.

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I mean, sure Doctor Who had some, but Tort sure had a lot more.

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I have to say that, you know, rewatching this, I was super fond

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about the setup and, you know, particularly the remaining regulars

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and Reese.

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I think I really like them a lot.

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And it is kind of fun to spend time with them.

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And we did have a week of John Barriman last week, which was kind

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of nice as well.

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He was mostly on fire or in concrete.

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We're not sure he enjoyed.

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He was a cinder.

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Oh my god.

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I didn't realise how naked. until I watched it on my ridiculously

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large television with far too much definition on it.

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And I was like, oh, that bit of text is not doing any covering

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there.

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There's sort of a fascinating mystery to me that Russell T. Davies

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during his 1st run of Doctor Who and Torchwood seems to be willing

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to treat John Barrowman as being as attractive as John Barrowman

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thinks he is.

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It's very strange.

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Yes, it's very weird. the world's oldest twink.

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So at this point in the show, we have 2 plots going and episode

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three, which at its very, very middle point is Frobisher talking

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to the 456.

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So that plot properly, properly kicks in here.

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But what also kicks in and perhaps reaches a climax is the why is

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the government trying to kill Captain Jack Harkness plot?

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And I think what we get here is those 2 sort of coinciding really

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interestingly.

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So, um, this episode starts with a giant hero moment for the

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Torchwood crew as they overcome what happened to them, you know, at

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the end of part one.

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I had a couple of weird things within this episode where, and I

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had this same problem a couple of times in the war between the

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Hoozy and the Doozy.

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Um, which was the characters who we had seen in the last episode

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doing something in this episode was like, oh, it's almost like

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that never happened because it was a different writer last week

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and we didn't read the whole script.

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Like when Kush Jumbo is like, I don't know if I should do this, I

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could be done for Teresa.

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It's like, you already helped them in the previous episode in the

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cafe.

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Why aren't you now pretending like you haven't even had a

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conversation?

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It was a very strange moment for me when she's like, oh no, I

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can't possibly help you.

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It's like you already did.

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There is kind of a kind of passover that.

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Isn't there like where someone does say, I mean, she does say

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something about, I helped you once, blah, blah, blah.

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So someone someone has sort of papered over that a little bit.

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Yeah, not enough.

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Yeah, so like, I actually really think that episode 2 has been a

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bit relentless because it is this sort of giant chase and we're on

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the run and Jack is, as you said, Adam kind of encased in

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concrete.

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And here we kind of get like a proper hero moment and we even get

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the music kicking in and stuff, you know, he gets his jacket back

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barely in pausibly.

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His entire, his entire outfit get comfort backs on my out.

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I like how the script doesn't even really care on that one. like

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um, Yanto later when he's trying to seduce Jack says, I missed

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that coat, as though it's the same one.

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I went to a military surplus store. and just happened to pick up

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exactly the same outfit because they bought all of them.

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Yeah, maybe is the coat like, do they do it in the coat?

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is what I want to know.

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Does he take all the clothes off and then put the coat back on and

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then they have like their little 20 to 30 minute adventure?

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That or nothing comes off.

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It's just men at play.com.

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I have literally another very urgent sex question, which is what

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on earth do you do with the torchwood contact lenses?

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Because apparently Reese and Gwen have been doing it and I can't

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imagine what it would be.

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Like looking themselves having sex with.

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Yeah, no, it's either extreme narcissism or like distance play.

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I don't...

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Is it a different movie to try to see what each other are doing to

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themselves and like send instructions back and forth. don't know.

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It's not super obvious, is it?

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I mean, he's he's a long haul truck driver.

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So perhaps he has the laptop when he's on the road and she's just

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looking down and jiggling a bit.

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But before that, I think, you know, as well as getting the relief

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of a hero moment, we actually have that really kind of fun montage

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of them all committing crimes.

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So much fun.

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Oh, it's crazy.

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Oh, that is hilarious.

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Like, it's so stupid.

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And did this not give children ideas throughout England?

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I had no ideas whatsoever watching it as a kid.

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It is actually the sort of thing that you can only do on torture

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it.

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I mean, you know, because Doctor Who is for children or is for

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families and, you know, to some degree has to be a bit of a role

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model, having all of our heroes commit crimes is really only

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something that we can do on torture.

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And it is hilarious.

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It's really adorable, I think.

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It really hit home for me just how efficient the scripting is

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here.

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Like, we go into a montage for it.

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That's something that I feel like, um, the more recent spinoff war

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between really could have used more of where we could just blitz

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through different beats and comedy and juggle characters a bit

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more.

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It's, it's fun to see everybody doing a little different thing

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that builds.

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Yeah.

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And, you know, with the with the culmination of Jack stealing the

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sports car, which is just hilarious.

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Just adorable.

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And like, it is a really fun moment.

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This is a fairly relentless 5 hours, and there isn't a lot of

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humour, and it's still torchwood.

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It's still a Doctor Who spinoff.

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It still should be funny.

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And so giving them that light moment.

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And also, you know, there is some other stuff in that the new hub

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in hub too.

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You know, the stuff about the beans, the stuff that we mentioned

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before about, you know, Yanto trying to seduce Jack and, and, you

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know.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.

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Like all of that stuff is actually really kind of fun and

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adorable.

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I mean, we had, it was the fun.

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There was some fun stuff in episode 2 with Yanto's sister.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Like driving off while they're all arresting the guys taking out

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the house.

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Yeah, or stealing the torchwood car as well in episode one, that

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dreadful car that makes them walk so stupid.

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So all of that stuff is kind of fun, but this in particular

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because it ends in such a dark place for Jack.

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It ends in that admission.

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So it starts with some triumph for Jack, you know, who's overcome

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being buried in concrete.

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Um, and wearing tracks of pants, which seems to be pants.

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That was brought to his very lowest in tracksuit fans.

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You know, it kind of has to have that trajectory, I think.

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But certainly that's a hugely fun sequence.

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Well, I mean, given what Captain Jack's famous for, it's weird

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that he's not okay with being in tracksuit pants, you'd think that

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would be his go-to outfit so everyone could see what he's famous

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for.

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And so this particular plot, this particular thread, which starts

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with Jack's hero moment and then ends and ends the episode with

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his admission that he gave the children to the 456 the 1st time.

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And it even ends with him saying, as a gift, the very word that

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the 456 have just used themselves to describe what they want.

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And I guess that thread basically is Gwen's subplot, isn't it?

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Like Gwen gets Clem out of lockup and slowly, you know, very

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slowly through traffic.

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There's a big traffic jam so that she arrives at the crucial

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moment.

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And he can smell Jack.

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He can smell, Jack.

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We all can.

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Thank you, Nathan.

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You said what we're all thinking.

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That's just that's one of those things watching this that really

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reminded me.

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I am watching a Russell T Davies show.

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He just has this deep love of weird sensory details and the

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puerile that no other writer would even think to do, and I'm not

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sure how I feel about it, to be honest.

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He also really enjoys decimating populations.

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Yes, definitely.

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When was...

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Like Series 3 is what, 2007?

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This is 2009.

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Like, oh, wait a minute, he doesn't decimate the sea devils.

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He wipes out 90% of them.

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Yeah, yeah.

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It's the trade-off.

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The other 10%.

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Yeah, the other...

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I will say in comparison to the sea devil's business.

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This takes ages to build the little case.

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Whereas in the sea devil's like, yeah, we probably took a bit long

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with that.

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Would you do that really quickly in the 1st episode?

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I mean, I think that I actually think that this works really well

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that the, that there is the mystery of what the children do, which

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is just this sort of massive, incredible hawk.

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Like it's super memorable.

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Very high concept, very, very easy to understand and super

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visual.

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But then we don't get the aliens until halfway through the show.

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And what we do get instead is the mystery of why Jack is being

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targeted, who those 3 other people are.

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And so we get that mystery solved here.

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And then that clears the decks to let us do the 456, but we don't

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have to do them for too long.

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Like they don't wear out their welcome.

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Whereas obviously in war between the land and the sea, the tank is

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sort of set up, isn't it?

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In episode one.

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And then they replay all the same footage in episode two, like

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we're watching the Thunderbirds and the palm trees going down.

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Yeah, yeah.

250
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Which, yeah.

251
00:12:58.740 --> 00:13:03.000
So I think that that works incredibly well.

252
00:13:03.059 --> 00:13:06.840
And because there's enough going on, because we're introducing all

253
00:13:06.840 --> 00:13:09.179
of these other characters and characters who are reacting to the

254
00:13:09.179 --> 00:13:11.759
children and characters who have the children are in sort of

255
00:13:11.759 --> 00:13:15.000
various, you know, in Jack's family and Yanto's family and

256
00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:15.840
Frobisher.

257
00:13:15.899 --> 00:13:20.460
We've got enough happening to kind of keep us going.

258
00:13:20.519 --> 00:13:23.759
So we never feel like we're marking time, even though the show

259
00:13:23.759 --> 00:13:24.480
sets up.

260
00:13:24.539 --> 00:13:26.580
This is not going to happen till tomorrow.

261
00:13:26.700 --> 00:13:29.519
This is not going to happen until, you know, the end of the day

262
00:13:29.519 --> 00:13:30.360
and so on.

263
00:13:30.419 --> 00:13:35.039
So it, you know, like it creates some future deadlines, but we

264
00:13:35.039 --> 00:13:37.980
never feel like we're just spinning our wheels waiting for them.

265
00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:44.460
Yeah, I've got to say the 1st conversation with the 456 is one of

266
00:13:44.460 --> 00:13:51.600
those moments where Uris Lynn has taken us on a big wide shot and

267
00:13:51.600 --> 00:13:55.679
it's just tiny little Peter Capaldi walking slowly forwards in the

268
00:13:55.679 --> 00:14:00.419
room and he's so softly spoken, you're like, I can't believe this

269
00:14:00.419 --> 00:14:04.860
is the same guy that plays Malcolm Tucker, that when he says the

270
00:14:04.860 --> 00:14:07.740
word shit, it's like, ooh, that's the biggest thing you've said.

271
00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:10.980
That's the worst swear that's come out of your mouth. yeah It's

272
00:14:10.980 --> 00:14:11.820
such a weird impact.

273
00:14:11.879 --> 00:14:15.179
And it's the same guy that plays the doctor and is so incendiary

274
00:14:15.179 --> 00:14:19.500
and active and it's this quiet, terrifying little man.

275
00:14:19.559 --> 00:14:21.419
It's such a great performance from him.

276
00:14:21.480 --> 00:14:23.399
I've said this multiple times.

277
00:14:23.460 --> 00:14:26.220
He is the best actor to regularly play the doctor.

278
00:14:26.279 --> 00:14:27.179
He is.

279
00:14:27.240 --> 00:14:28.679
Oh, no contest.

280
00:14:28.740 --> 00:14:33.600
So he's just so brilliant and so well timed and you don't notice

281
00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:36.240
that these 4 different characters we know him for.

282
00:14:36.299 --> 00:14:41.039
Three, three, which in the Doctor Who universe and one in the

283
00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:42.360
Doctor Who adjacent universe.

284
00:14:45.419 --> 00:14:48.600
They're all so different Yeah, I forget that it is actually the

285
00:14:48.600 --> 00:14:48.960
same actor.

286
00:14:49.019 --> 00:14:49.740
Yeah.

287
00:14:49.799 --> 00:14:50.759
Yeah.

288
00:14:50.820 --> 00:14:53.340
Like this is Frobisher. like you don't say, oh, it's Peter

289
00:14:53.340 --> 00:14:54.000
Capaldi.

290
00:14:54.059 --> 00:14:56.759
You think it's Frobisher as the character?

291
00:14:56.820 --> 00:14:57.720
Not the penguin.

292
00:14:57.779 --> 00:15:01.139
No, no, no, but head cannon wise, he is the penguin, remember?

293
00:15:12.360 --> 00:15:13.980
Let's kind of talk about that.

294
00:15:14.039 --> 00:15:16.620
We do have the 456 here now, finally.

295
00:15:16.740 --> 00:15:19.320
We're wise not to give them a name.

296
00:15:19.379 --> 00:15:22.799
They don't have a space name, and they refuse to give one.

297
00:15:22.919 --> 00:15:24.600
So...

298
00:15:24.659 --> 00:15:25.679
Yep, we have that.

299
00:15:25.740 --> 00:15:29.100
Well, maybe because it's pronounced by spitting all over the

300
00:15:29.100 --> 00:15:29.519
window.

301
00:15:30.779 --> 00:15:34.139
What do we think of that puke anyway?

302
00:15:34.200 --> 00:15:34.860
Is it puke?

303
00:15:34.919 --> 00:15:36.419
Is it some other bodily fluid?

304
00:15:36.539 --> 00:15:37.799
Is it because of the child drugs?

305
00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:41.399
I actually think I actually think it's brilliant.

306
00:15:41.460 --> 00:15:45.960
And I think I think the reason is that you have a contrast between

307
00:15:45.960 --> 00:15:53.519
the incredibly crisp and cultured voice that it speaks with, how

308
00:15:53.519 --> 00:16:00.059
incredibly measured it is, how it's prepared to just sit and let

309
00:16:00.059 --> 00:16:05.039
its interlocutors just sort of twist on the weird waiting for a

310
00:16:05.039 --> 00:16:05.519
ply.

311
00:16:05.580 --> 00:16:07.799
It just leaves people there.

312
00:16:07.860 --> 00:16:09.419
These huge gaps in the conversation.

313
00:16:09.480 --> 00:16:10.379
Oh, yes.

314
00:16:10.379 --> 00:16:13.259
It's clearly, really very intelligent.

315
00:16:13.379 --> 00:16:19.320
But the screaming and the growling, and the fact, like it, it's

316
00:16:19.320 --> 00:16:23.940
spraying bodily fluids all over the walls, in a, in a way, there's

317
00:16:23.940 --> 00:16:28.559
that incredible moment, isn't there, where, um, where Frobisher, in

318
00:16:28.559 --> 00:16:31.919
not in the 1st conversation, but in the 1st big recorded

319
00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:36.539
conversation that, that lower season that the prime minister sees

320
00:16:36.539 --> 00:16:40.740
that it does that screaming, shrieking thing and smashing against

321
00:16:40.740 --> 00:16:43.860
the walls and and spraying the walls with the excrement.

322
00:16:43.919 --> 00:16:48.779
Um, And Capaldi says, is everything okay?

323
00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:51.720
I'm concerned or, you know, forgive me, I'm concerned.

324
00:16:51.779 --> 00:16:54.840
And then it just kind of parrots that back at him in this really

325
00:16:54.840 --> 00:16:57.659
aggressive, dismissive way.

326
00:16:57.720 --> 00:17:01.080
And so the mere fact that we don't know what that is, but that

327
00:17:01.080 --> 00:17:04.799
there's something disgusting and animalistic about it, that it's

328
00:17:04.799 --> 00:17:08.640
dripping with mucus all the time, that we don't get to see it

329
00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:09.839
properly ever.

330
00:17:10.980 --> 00:17:17.039
It reminds me a little bit of Anthony Hopkins's, as Hannibal

331
00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:21.839
Lecter, where he's very, very cultured and urbane.

332
00:17:21.900 --> 00:17:25.859
And the contrast between that and the disgusting things that he's

333
00:17:25.859 --> 00:17:30.539
prepared to touch and and it's like that, I think.

334
00:17:30.599 --> 00:17:32.759
I can smell your penguin from here.

335
00:17:33.539 --> 00:17:39.720
I think it's also, I wonder if, so the behaviour of the 456 when

336
00:17:39.720 --> 00:17:42.599
you pull out and look at it, like they're drug addicts, for one

337
00:17:42.599 --> 00:17:46.740
thing, they're demanding gifts for another.

338
00:17:46.799 --> 00:17:51.539
They parrot you back to you in some sort of mocking way and

339
00:17:51.539 --> 00:17:53.220
they're spitting all over the glass.

340
00:17:53.279 --> 00:17:56.039
Are they annoying teenagers at the shops?

341
00:17:57.299 --> 00:18:00.480
Can you buy me a 6 pack, sir?

342
00:18:01.799 --> 00:18:07.799
I mean, it is kind of, you know, love crafty and in the sense that

343
00:18:07.799 --> 00:18:11.220
it's just this weird, unknowable thing that doesn't even have a

344
00:18:11.220 --> 00:18:15.420
name that we can't understand in any way, but that it is really

345
00:18:15.420 --> 00:18:19.799
kind of viscerally disgusting and sort of slimy and frightening

346
00:18:19.799 --> 00:18:21.539
and incomprehensible.

347
00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:24.420
And I think as well, one of the things that we've talked about

348
00:18:24.420 --> 00:18:27.960
over the last couple of weeks is the show lands on calling them

349
00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:31.319
drug addicts, you know, that the, they bolt themselves to the

350
00:18:31.319 --> 00:18:34.559
children, because the children producer chemical that makes them

351
00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:37.680
high, that gives them a hit, as they say.

352
00:18:37.740 --> 00:18:41.339
But they're also conceived of as paedophiles, aren't they?

353
00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:44.759
They're people who violate the bodily autonomy of children in

354
00:18:44.759 --> 00:18:46.140
order to get off.

355
00:18:46.140 --> 00:18:47.579
Yeah, in order to get off.

356
00:18:47.640 --> 00:18:54.420
And we have characters in dialogue talk to people like last week.

357
00:18:54.480 --> 00:18:58.319
You know, Yanto went to a little girl at the playground and tried

358
00:18:58.319 --> 00:19:01.680
to see what was going on with her when she'd stopped and her

359
00:19:01.680 --> 00:19:04.440
mother calls him a pervert and tells him to kind of get away.

360
00:19:04.500 --> 00:19:07.500
Yeah, and the same thing with the car when they're shaking the car

361
00:19:07.500 --> 00:19:08.339
in that thing.

362
00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:10.079
Like, oh, you paedophile. staying.

363
00:19:10.140 --> 00:19:10.859
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

364
00:19:10.920 --> 00:19:14.759
So all of that anxiety, because there is a real anxiety and we

365
00:19:14.759 --> 00:19:18.660
talked about this as well, that as gay men, there's something

366
00:19:18.660 --> 00:19:21.960
about this as slightly inaccessible probably to us, or as

367
00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:23.220
childless gay men anyway.

368
00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:28.380
The way that people own their children or see themselves as owning

369
00:19:28.380 --> 00:19:32.339
their children on top of the way that they're anxious about their

370
00:19:32.339 --> 00:19:34.799
children and the way they love their children and stuff and all of

371
00:19:34.799 --> 00:19:37.319
those things are kind of being played with all the way through

372
00:19:37.319 --> 00:19:38.039
here, I think.

373
00:19:38.099 --> 00:19:43.920
Yeah, I mean, that's a good point with the children and not us, you

374
00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:49.859
know, having that experience, but also we can, that is our in

375
00:19:49.859 --> 00:19:53.400
because I'm sure we've all at times experienced being accused of

376
00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:54.240
being pervs.

377
00:19:54.299 --> 00:19:58.380
But, you know, homophobic people. in our lives.

378
00:19:58.440 --> 00:20:00.960
Maybe not Kevin, because he's not as grown up as us.

379
00:20:01.259 --> 00:20:05.099
But in our day, the 2 things were inextricable.

380
00:20:05.160 --> 00:20:08.519
Like, and even when you look at someone like Kevin Spacey, when

381
00:20:08.519 --> 00:20:13.740
you know, he was accused of molesting Anthony Rapp, and instead of

382
00:20:13.740 --> 00:20:17.460
saying, oh, I absolutely did that, and I'm really sorry about it

383
00:20:17.460 --> 00:20:20.759
he came out of the closet as if it's like, no, no, no, we're not

384
00:20:20.759 --> 00:20:21.720
talking about you being gay.

385
00:20:21.779 --> 00:20:24.599
We're talking about you interfering with a 14 year old boy.

386
00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:28.500
And he just had those 2 in his head as, oh, that's the same

387
00:20:28.500 --> 00:20:28.920
thing.

388
00:20:28.980 --> 00:20:34.500
And a lot of people back in the day were completely completed the

389
00:20:34.500 --> 00:20:34.740
two.

390
00:20:34.859 --> 00:20:36.539
And, you know, you would.

391
00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:40.380
I remember once when I was in radio and this is in the 2000s and

392
00:20:40.380 --> 00:20:42.420
it was like, oh, maybe we shouldn't have Adam come to this thing

393
00:20:42.420 --> 00:20:46.680
because it's a kid's party and everyone's like, why not?

394
00:20:46.740 --> 00:20:51.359
And I had a step monster at the time that I was living with on the

395
00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:52.980
weekend. like, yeah, he's fine.

396
00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:56.279
But that was just kind of an attitude.

397
00:20:56.279 --> 00:21:00.599
And I guess that's part of what, you know, Russell's trying to

398
00:21:00.599 --> 00:21:04.259
expose here on some level is that everyone was a paedophile at

399
00:21:04.259 --> 00:21:08.339
that time in England, like everyone that was, you know, that was a

400
00:21:08.339 --> 00:21:12.960
word thrown around like crazy about everybody, little, did we

401
00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:15.779
realise that all the people in charge, throwing that word around

402
00:21:15.779 --> 00:21:17.039
were in fact the paedophiles.

403
00:21:17.099 --> 00:21:19.140
That's why they were sort of familiar with the use of the word.

404
00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:23.940
I mean, that's sort of a thing with this too, with Torchwood is

405
00:21:23.940 --> 00:21:27.240
fundamentally playing with conspiracy thrillers and classic

406
00:21:27.240 --> 00:21:31.680
conspiracy theory, and 2 of the big ones that Children of Earth

407
00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:35.400
touches on are, of course, the elites are coming to take your

408
00:21:35.400 --> 00:21:39.000
children, and also later on, they have a sort of vaccine panic

409
00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:39.720
story beat.

410
00:21:39.779 --> 00:21:44.640
It's the sort of thing that ages quite strangely in good ways and

411
00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:49.500
bad, but it is very much in conversation with what people are

412
00:21:49.500 --> 00:21:52.380
going to be screaming about secret government organisations like

413
00:21:52.380 --> 00:21:53.640
Torchwood doing in the 1st place.

414
00:21:53.700 --> 00:21:55.140
Yeah, yeah.

415
00:22:09.900 --> 00:22:13.559
Let's talk about some of the secondary characters for a second.

416
00:22:13.619 --> 00:22:20.220
I thought that Alice and Stephen had a pretty great week this

417
00:22:20.220 --> 00:22:20.460
week.

418
00:22:20.519 --> 00:22:22.859
She's amazing.

419
00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:23.400
She is.

420
00:22:23.460 --> 00:22:24.000
I love her.

421
00:22:24.059 --> 00:22:24.900
Yeah, I really like her.

422
00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:25.740
I think she's incredible.

423
00:22:25.799 --> 00:22:28.200
I would love to know what she was going to do with that knife.

424
00:22:28.259 --> 00:22:29.460
Yeah, yeah.

425
00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:30.960
It's awesome, isn't it?

426
00:22:31.019 --> 00:22:33.900
It's so great Like she actually leaves the kitchen.

427
00:22:33.900 --> 00:22:36.000
And it's really kind of well done.

428
00:22:36.059 --> 00:22:39.839
Like, you know, she hears a dog, like the sound of a dog.

429
00:22:39.900 --> 00:22:43.140
I was watching it this morning and Alfie reacted really badly to

430
00:22:43.140 --> 00:22:44.099
the sound of the dog.

431
00:22:44.220 --> 00:22:46.079
He was running around looking for it.

432
00:22:46.140 --> 00:22:47.819
But she reacts to the sound of the dog.

433
00:22:47.880 --> 00:22:48.960
She kind of looks in and out.

434
00:22:49.019 --> 00:22:53.640
She grabs 2 things from the kitchen, like the chopping board and

435
00:22:53.640 --> 00:22:58.619
the knife and then runs just as like the armed goons come into her

436
00:22:58.619 --> 00:22:58.799
house.

437
00:22:58.859 --> 00:23:03.779
And then within a 2nd she's used the chopping board to like smash

438
00:23:03.779 --> 00:23:05.880
this guy in the head and steal his gun.

439
00:23:05.940 --> 00:23:08.279
And now she's running around the streets with a gun.

440
00:23:08.339 --> 00:23:09.000
It's awesome.

441
00:23:09.059 --> 00:23:10.259
She's so great.

442
00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:11.759
She's so great.

443
00:23:11.819 --> 00:23:14.400
And even the bit at the beginning too, which kind of intercunts

444
00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:18.180
between the crime bit because the crime bit kind of spills over a

445
00:23:18.180 --> 00:23:21.839
bit because, you know, she does the sneaky thing where she goes to

446
00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:25.259
the woman across the road and says, can I borrow your phone and

447
00:23:25.259 --> 00:23:28.019
then she kind of realises she's being traced, I think.

448
00:23:28.079 --> 00:23:28.980
Yeah.

449
00:23:28.980 --> 00:23:31.559
And then you get Jack, of course, and we'll talk about this later

450
00:23:31.559 --> 00:23:37.140
going into Frobisher's house and stealing Anna's phone and we'll

451
00:23:37.140 --> 00:23:37.740
talk about that too.

452
00:23:37.859 --> 00:23:42.960
But I mean, here, I just think she's fantastically strong.

453
00:23:43.019 --> 00:23:48.119
And I was saying last week, I think that I really, really like the

454
00:23:48.119 --> 00:23:49.380
woman who plays Johnson.

455
00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:50.880
Oh yeah.

456
00:23:50.940 --> 00:23:53.759
But she's looking at down in the hole and pouring in the

457
00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:54.180
concrete.

458
00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:55.259
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

459
00:23:55.319 --> 00:23:56.339
It's great.

460
00:23:56.519 --> 00:24:00.900
She does overpluck her eyebrows a little bit, but I'm, like, I'm

461
00:24:00.900 --> 00:24:02.579
I'm repanticated for you.

462
00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:03.599
It was the style of the time.

463
00:24:05.039 --> 00:24:09.720
But she's really great, and I have sort of suggested, because I

464
00:24:09.720 --> 00:24:15.299
think next week, her and Alice actually bond slightly, like, and

465
00:24:15.299 --> 00:24:19.619
gradually, like, they end up having quite an interesting

466
00:24:19.619 --> 00:24:20.819
relationship, I think.

467
00:24:20.880 --> 00:24:24.420
But here she's just incredibly strong.

468
00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:28.019
And I think the one moment that I think we see the beginning of

469
00:24:28.019 --> 00:24:32.819
that relationship is where Alice says to her, if you hurt Stephen

470
00:24:32.819 --> 00:24:36.779
I will kill you and her reply is just understood, you know

471
00:24:36.779 --> 00:24:37.380
understood.

472
00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:39.539
I love that standoff.

473
00:24:39.960 --> 00:24:43.140
It's beautiful. a beautiful moment.

474
00:24:43.200 --> 00:24:47.039
I think the really smart twist is them defusing the situation by

475
00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:50.339
her saying, if I wanted either of you dead, you already would be.

476
00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:54.779
It's the sort of just bringing logic into a standard beat where

477
00:24:54.779 --> 00:24:56.940
the characters really get the measure of each other.

478
00:24:57.000 --> 00:24:58.980
I thought that was really well played.

479
00:24:59.039 --> 00:25:03.960
I just love how that character, and she's, she, like, she's so

480
00:25:03.960 --> 00:25:04.680
chilling.

481
00:25:04.740 --> 00:25:09.000
But you don't get the impression that she's necessarily evil.

482
00:25:09.059 --> 00:25:10.680
She's just doing her job.

483
00:25:10.740 --> 00:25:13.440
Her job is evil and it has hurting people.

484
00:25:13.500 --> 00:25:18.240
But there's that line where Alice says, take me, but leave him.

485
00:25:18.299 --> 00:25:21.359
He's only a kid and she says, so?

486
00:25:21.420 --> 00:25:23.160
And it's like, oh.

487
00:25:23.160 --> 00:25:27.299
But I mean, later her concern for children.

488
00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:28.079
Do you know what I mean?

489
00:25:28.140 --> 00:25:30.240
It actually becomes apparent, like, when she knows what her

490
00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:31.559
government is actually doing?

491
00:25:31.619 --> 00:25:33.480
She comes over to our side.

492
00:25:33.660 --> 00:25:37.380
And that's more effective because she's someone whom we've seen

493
00:25:37.380 --> 00:25:39.539
you know, attempting to kill our leads and stuff.

494
00:25:39.660 --> 00:25:44.220
In many ways, she is, she becomes one of the heroes of the story

495
00:25:44.220 --> 00:25:45.660
towards the end.

496
00:25:45.720 --> 00:25:46.500
Like she...

497
00:25:46.859 --> 00:25:48.000
She certainly one of our gang.

498
00:25:48.059 --> 00:25:48.420
Yeah.

499
00:25:48.420 --> 00:25:48.660
Yeah.

500
00:25:49.079 --> 00:25:49.380
Yeah.

501
00:25:49.440 --> 00:25:54.180
And of course, there is just a brilliant economy as well in ending

502
00:25:54.180 --> 00:25:58.680
that scene with Stephen pointing and us not knowing why.

503
00:25:58.740 --> 00:26:01.319
And so we go straight into the pointing when we're in the middle

504
00:26:01.319 --> 00:26:02.039
of something else.

505
00:26:02.099 --> 00:26:06.119
And that is something I think that happens a couple of times where

506
00:26:06.119 --> 00:26:09.539
during the course of the thing, we're actually in the middle of

507
00:26:09.539 --> 00:26:13.019
another scene and the children interrupt the action by suddenly

508
00:26:13.019 --> 00:26:15.779
behaving oddly at the behest of the 456.

509
00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:18.119
And here it's Stephen pointing, it's something that we've never

510
00:26:18.119 --> 00:26:18.720
seen before.

511
00:26:18.779 --> 00:26:24.660
And it's really just another very clever thing because it is the

512
00:26:24.660 --> 00:26:28.380
456 trying to implicate England, which it's been trying to do all

513
00:26:28.380 --> 00:26:29.160
the way through.

514
00:26:29.220 --> 00:26:33.660
Like it's, you know, it's been trying to make it clear that

515
00:26:33.660 --> 00:26:36.119
England is responsible for all of this.

516
00:26:36.359 --> 00:26:37.680
Yeah.

517
00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:43.680
And it's Rhiannon, who realises that London's over there, Reese, I

518
00:26:43.680 --> 00:26:47.220
think, realises as well, and then it's Yanto, who realises that

519
00:26:47.220 --> 00:26:51.779
they're all pointing at Thames house, but we get that montage of

520
00:26:51.779 --> 00:26:55.259
all of the newsreaders, you know, saying that everyone in France

521
00:26:55.259 --> 00:26:59.819
is pointing west and everyone in the US is pointing east and all

522
00:26:59.819 --> 00:27:00.180
of that.

523
00:27:00.180 --> 00:27:03.539
So, and then we kind of narrow it down to Thames house. everyone

524
00:27:03.539 --> 00:27:05.460
in London is pointing at the centre of London.

525
00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:08.519
Everyone's pointing at Tim's house, which again, is just really

526
00:27:08.519 --> 00:27:12.180
well told through those, you know, very rustly kind of

527
00:27:12.180 --> 00:27:13.740
newsreaders.

528
00:27:13.799 --> 00:27:17.220
And I really want to shout out to that blonde news reader who is

529
00:27:17.220 --> 00:27:22.380
so convincing, just as absolutely the intonation of a BBC news

530
00:27:22.380 --> 00:27:22.980
reader.

531
00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:23.940
She's so perfect.

532
00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:27.539
Absolutely, absolutely 100% credible.

533
00:27:27.599 --> 00:27:31.740
I think also the efficiency of the storytelling means you don't

534
00:27:31.740 --> 00:27:34.380
have to dwell on some of the oddities of a concept like that.

535
00:27:34.440 --> 00:27:37.440
Like, what direction were people on the exact opposite of the

536
00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:39.180
globe from England pointing?

537
00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:40.019
Were they pointing down?

538
00:27:40.079 --> 00:27:42.180
They're going like, oh, corrections?

539
00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:43.140
What happens?

540
00:27:44.220 --> 00:27:47.880
It's very much like the Christmas invasion where, you know, like a

541
00:27:47.880 --> 00:27:51.059
3rd of the population walk up to the roof and you kind of go, well

542
00:27:51.059 --> 00:27:52.019
is there always a roof?

543
00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:52.859
Like what's happening?

544
00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:55.680
Some of them were standing on the garden wall.

545
00:27:56.220 --> 00:27:58.559
I'm standing on the gutter.

546
00:27:59.819 --> 00:28:03.119
I mean, it is great to see Trinity back.

547
00:28:03.180 --> 00:28:07.500
It feels weird, though, because, you know, she doesn't really fit

548
00:28:07.500 --> 00:28:10.140
in Torchwood, in a way, you know?

549
00:28:10.200 --> 00:28:13.920
Like, she, she fits in conspiracy is always in Doctor Who, and

550
00:28:13.920 --> 00:28:18.119
she's kind of reassuring until you get to the 2nd RTT era, and

551
00:28:18.119 --> 00:28:19.920
she's just got full mental.

552
00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:25.559
She's sort of Alex Jones. you know, she works for she works too.

553
00:28:25.619 --> 00:28:28.019
I think this is the start of her Candace Owens art.

554
00:28:28.140 --> 00:28:31.980
But yeah, like I think all of those things are great and that's

555
00:28:31.980 --> 00:28:35.460
obviously the great innovation that Russell brings to Doctor Who

556
00:28:35.460 --> 00:28:38.819
in Aliens of London and brings it straight from the 2nd coming

557
00:28:38.819 --> 00:28:41.700
which is, you know, where it's a huge way that he goes about

558
00:28:41.700 --> 00:28:43.980
telling, you know, giving that story scale.

559
00:28:44.039 --> 00:28:48.240
But here, just the fact that they act as a kind of Greek chorus or

560
00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:51.900
or, you know, like a narrator and enables some very quick

561
00:28:51.900 --> 00:28:56.279
worldwide things to happen, like constantly reminding us that this

562
00:28:56.279 --> 00:28:58.500
isn't England, even though we only ever see England.

563
00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:02.579
Oh, speaking of 2nd coming, how great is that biblical image of

564
00:29:02.579 --> 00:29:03.660
the pillar of fire?

565
00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:06.359
Yeah, it's so good, isn't it?

566
00:29:06.420 --> 00:29:07.380
It's really good.

567
00:29:07.500 --> 00:29:10.380
It's so good. because I watched it on my stupidly large television

568
00:29:10.380 --> 00:29:12.480
with my ridiculous 7 speakers.

569
00:29:12.539 --> 00:29:14.579
It's crazy loud.

570
00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:19.619
Like, I know this has always been a complaint about the BBC Blu

571
00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:24.839
rays is that they pump up the, um, the surround sound is stupid.

572
00:29:24.900 --> 00:29:26.700
Like everything is miles away.

573
00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:31.680
Like they make this enormous sound field and the subwoofer was

574
00:29:31.680 --> 00:29:34.619
getting quite a workout and I'm like, yeah, sometimes it's

575
00:29:34.619 --> 00:29:35.039
ridiculous.

576
00:29:35.099 --> 00:29:36.359
And then sometimes it's just fun.

577
00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:39.240
It just looks incredible.

578
00:29:39.299 --> 00:29:42.900
And there's a reason, I think, that they've used it.

579
00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:46.440
They use it as the kind of hero image on TARDIS IKEA for this

580
00:29:46.440 --> 00:29:50.220
episode of, you know, and they use it very prominently in next

581
00:29:50.220 --> 00:29:54.119
week's previously on reprise montage thing.

582
00:29:54.180 --> 00:29:56.460
It looks so incredibly striking.

583
00:29:56.519 --> 00:30:00.180
And the fact that it is a pillar of fire rather than some sort of

584
00:30:00.180 --> 00:30:03.000
space beam is actually the right thing to do.

585
00:30:03.059 --> 00:30:06.180
Like, even it looked like a transporter effect or something like

586
00:30:06.180 --> 00:30:06.539
that.

587
00:30:06.599 --> 00:30:09.480
And we don't even, we don't even talk in those terms.

588
00:30:09.539 --> 00:30:12.720
Like last week when Bridget was wondering how they were going to

589
00:30:12.720 --> 00:30:13.859
get into the tank.

590
00:30:13.920 --> 00:30:17.940
You know, we don't say, oh, they'll beam in using a teleport

591
00:30:17.940 --> 00:30:19.380
because that's a Doctor Who thing.

592
00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:20.940
They just don't say.

593
00:30:21.420 --> 00:30:25.680
The point you made about the appropriateness of the pillar of fire

594
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:26.940
the biblical nature of it.

595
00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:28.259
They are kind of like gods.

596
00:30:28.680 --> 00:30:34.740
And they are visiting some sort of biblical, not judgement because

597
00:30:34.740 --> 00:30:37.259
you know, they're doing it for their own purposes.

598
00:30:37.319 --> 00:30:41.819
Yeah, it's not an act of God, but it is, it's a biblical kind of

599
00:30:41.819 --> 00:30:42.359
thing.

600
00:30:42.420 --> 00:30:47.099
You know, like taking 10% like destroying 10% of a population

601
00:30:47.099 --> 00:30:50.220
eating 10% of a population, not whatever they're paying to do with

602
00:30:50.220 --> 00:30:50.460
them.

603
00:30:50.940 --> 00:30:53.460
I mean, God kills a lot of children.

604
00:30:53.519 --> 00:30:56.339
Yeah, it's mad for it.

605
00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:57.180
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

606
00:30:57.240 --> 00:30:58.319
It is like literally a thing.

607
00:30:58.380 --> 00:30:59.640
It's what the Passover is about.

608
00:30:59.700 --> 00:31:04.079
All of the firstborn children of the Egyptians are killed by God.

609
00:31:04.259 --> 00:31:09.420
And again, that has to be a thing that is being referenced or

610
00:31:09.420 --> 00:31:11.460
thought about here by the writers, surely.

611
00:31:11.579 --> 00:31:17.460
And also diagetically, like the 456 are drama queens, they want to

612
00:31:17.460 --> 00:31:20.640
implicate you in the loudest way possible and they want the world

613
00:31:20.640 --> 00:31:21.059
scared.

614
00:31:21.119 --> 00:31:26.940
I also think they've gone crazy on this one big special effect

615
00:31:26.940 --> 00:31:30.359
because everything else is being done practically in the show.

616
00:31:30.420 --> 00:31:32.700
They're not really using many visual effects.

617
00:31:32.759 --> 00:31:35.940
So it's like, oh, we've got heaps left over in the budget.

618
00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:38.220
Let's really go to town on the fire pillar.

619
00:31:38.279 --> 00:31:40.500
Because, I mean, it's just a giant puppet, isn't it?

620
00:31:40.500 --> 00:31:43.500
The fore 456 is just a really, really impressive puppet.

621
00:31:43.559 --> 00:31:44.579
That doesn't have to be...

622
00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:45.539
And it's mostly in smoke.

623
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:48.539
Because you're mostly in smoke. that's right Just think what we

624
00:31:48.539 --> 00:31:51.359
would think of the Scarasan if it had been mostly in smoke.

625
00:31:51.720 --> 00:31:54.900
Imagine if it was a foggy day.

626
00:31:54.960 --> 00:31:58.140
Just think how much better legend of the sea devils would be if we

627
00:31:58.140 --> 00:31:58.619
couldn't see it.

628
00:31:59.039 --> 00:32:00.660
Imagine.

629
00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:01.920
It's a great audio plan.

630
00:32:02.640 --> 00:32:05.880
When you can't see it's Super Marioing into the boat.

631
00:32:15.900 --> 00:32:18.599
We haven't talked about Kush Jumbo enough because I love her so

632
00:32:18.599 --> 00:32:18.839
much.

633
00:32:18.900 --> 00:32:20.579
When are we doing the Kush Jumbo podcast?

634
00:32:20.700 --> 00:32:21.480
Wow, are we doing it now?

635
00:32:21.539 --> 00:32:23.339
doing for the last 2.5 weeks?

636
00:32:23.400 --> 00:32:25.680
She's great in this, isn't she?

637
00:32:25.740 --> 00:32:26.759
I mean, she's so good.

638
00:32:26.819 --> 00:32:28.079
She is really, really good.

639
00:32:28.140 --> 00:32:30.900
And like a lot of it, like a lot of it is just done.

640
00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:33.720
There's something about her facial expression.

641
00:32:33.779 --> 00:32:38.640
There's the moment, isn't there where she's watching the Prime

642
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:43.559
Minister on television, talking about looking after the children

643
00:32:43.559 --> 00:32:44.519
and things.

644
00:32:44.579 --> 00:32:49.259
And everyone's watching it at her work and the camera goes across

645
00:32:49.259 --> 00:32:53.339
and we see her watching it as well, but she makes it very clear

646
00:32:53.339 --> 00:32:56.880
that she's thinking about what she's learned about how this

647
00:32:56.880 --> 00:32:57.960
government works.

648
00:32:58.019 --> 00:33:04.980
Like she already knows that the government has killed people in

649
00:33:04.980 --> 00:33:07.140
order to try and hush this stuff up.

650
00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:11.220
And so she's already disillusioned, but it's everywhere on her

651
00:33:11.220 --> 00:33:11.640
face.

652
00:33:11.700 --> 00:33:15.839
And the other thing too, is that bit where she has to try and get

653
00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:18.299
herself allowed into Thames house.

654
00:33:18.299 --> 00:33:22.380
And she does that by telling Bridget that she's having an affair

655
00:33:22.380 --> 00:33:24.059
with Frobisher.

656
00:33:24.119 --> 00:33:27.480
And she's super embarrassed about having to do that.

657
00:33:27.539 --> 00:33:29.940
Like, she's really awkward about that.

658
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:34.440
And the implication from Bridget that she has also had an affair

659
00:33:34.440 --> 00:33:39.359
with him and it ended badly, but they still work together and

660
00:33:39.359 --> 00:33:42.180
she's kind of the harbouring...

661
00:33:42.359 --> 00:33:44.160
Yeah, the first.

662
00:33:44.220 --> 00:33:45.720
Don't think you're the first.

663
00:33:45.839 --> 00:33:49.799
I also just love all the little glances between them throughout

664
00:33:49.799 --> 00:33:50.579
the episode.

665
00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:54.900
Like, when Lois is manoeuvring herself to see Peter Capaldi's

666
00:33:54.900 --> 00:33:58.859
mouth, she is the only person who notices Lois doing that.

667
00:33:58.980 --> 00:34:01.500
Yeah, yeah, Bridget Bridget's all over it.

668
00:34:01.559 --> 00:34:03.960
And of course, that pays off in episode five.

669
00:34:04.019 --> 00:34:06.240
Like, I think that what happens in episode five.

670
00:34:06.299 --> 00:34:11.219
There's that interesting visit where she visits Lois in prison

671
00:34:11.219 --> 00:34:14.219
where Bridget visits Lois in prison, and there's that whole

672
00:34:14.219 --> 00:34:14.760
speech.

673
00:34:14.820 --> 00:34:20.099
And I don't think the story really hugely emphasises the prior

674
00:34:20.099 --> 00:34:24.539
relationship between Bridget and Frobisher, but it's strongly

675
00:34:24.539 --> 00:34:25.980
hinted at here.

676
00:34:26.039 --> 00:34:28.440
But I don't think episode 5 works.

677
00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:32.519
And the eventual kind of resolution that Bridget is involved in.

678
00:34:32.579 --> 00:34:35.880
I don't think any of that works without the knowledge of that

679
00:34:35.880 --> 00:34:37.320
relationship, I think.

680
00:34:37.380 --> 00:34:39.659
Can you imagine how much poorer that would have been if they had

681
00:34:39.659 --> 00:34:41.039
got Prima to be, Martha?

682
00:34:41.099 --> 00:34:42.719
You can't do that with her.

683
00:34:42.780 --> 00:34:43.320
God.

684
00:34:43.380 --> 00:34:44.099
No.

685
00:34:44.219 --> 00:34:47.639
The other reason we talked about this before and Sandra brings

686
00:34:47.639 --> 00:34:48.119
this up.

687
00:34:48.179 --> 00:34:51.659
It's because Martha comes from a world where there are aliens.

688
00:34:51.719 --> 00:34:52.860
Yeah.

689
00:34:52.860 --> 00:34:56.579
And Lois does it. like Lois just comes from the world where you

690
00:34:56.579 --> 00:34:59.039
catch the buster work for your 1st day on Monday.

691
00:34:59.099 --> 00:35:05.099
You know, like, and so her heroism comes out of just being a kind

692
00:35:05.099 --> 00:35:09.360
of good person who doesn't have any special powers or any kind of

693
00:35:09.360 --> 00:35:13.559
plot magic or anything like that, hasn't survived alien attacks.

694
00:35:13.619 --> 00:35:16.380
You know, this is her seeing an alien for the 1st time.

695
00:35:17.280 --> 00:35:20.820
Martha's role would have had to be significantly different.

696
00:35:20.880 --> 00:35:23.699
And I do think that Lois is better.

697
00:35:23.820 --> 00:35:28.380
At this point, Martha has also worked with Torchwood.

698
00:35:28.440 --> 00:35:31.019
So how would she infiltrate the government if there were those

699
00:35:31.019 --> 00:35:32.039
connections between...

700
00:35:32.039 --> 00:35:33.719
Yeah, everyone would have known who she was.

701
00:35:33.780 --> 00:35:35.159
Yeah, she would have been one of the people they were trying to

702
00:35:35.159 --> 00:35:35.340
kill.

703
00:35:35.400 --> 00:35:38.340
I mean, there would have had to have been a significant rewrite.

704
00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:42.059
Like, but I think that I think that Martha, and like possibly

705
00:35:42.059 --> 00:35:44.039
Mickey was going to be in it as well at one point.

706
00:35:44.099 --> 00:35:48.900
I just think that that's too many space people. you know, the fact

707
00:35:48.900 --> 00:35:53.579
that that most of our, that all of our series 3 regulars, apart

708
00:35:53.579 --> 00:35:57.119
from the main Tortured crew, are just normal people doing their

709
00:35:57.119 --> 00:35:58.139
jobs.

710
00:35:58.199 --> 00:36:02.099
Can I just say when she's looking up the torchwood thing, it might

711
00:36:02.099 --> 00:36:05.159
have been an episode one, but I noticed a factual error, which I

712
00:36:05.159 --> 00:36:07.619
very rarely noticed because I'm too excited by the story.

713
00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:12.539
On the screen, it said HRH Queen Victoria, and the monarch is

714
00:36:12.539 --> 00:36:13.559
never HRH.

715
00:36:13.619 --> 00:36:14.639
That's all the other royals.

716
00:36:14.699 --> 00:36:15.360
Ah yes.

717
00:36:16.079 --> 00:36:18.179
Monarch is HM.

718
00:36:19.019 --> 00:36:22.079
It's always Her Majesty, not Her Royal Highness.

719
00:36:22.139 --> 00:36:22.860
Thank you very much.

720
00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:23.579
There you go.

721
00:36:23.639 --> 00:36:25.079
HRH is everyone else.

722
00:36:25.139 --> 00:36:26.219
The end of the monarchy.

723
00:36:26.280 --> 00:36:26.940
Things that I know.

724
00:36:28.019 --> 00:36:30.360
I've ruined it for everyone now.

725
00:36:31.440 --> 00:36:35.820
So it's also, I noticed another sort of error in the dialogue

726
00:36:35.820 --> 00:36:39.599
which is the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland, from Frobisher

727
00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:40.500
halfway through the episode.

728
00:36:40.559 --> 00:36:41.940
Instead of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?

729
00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:42.719
United Kingdom.

730
00:36:42.780 --> 00:36:44.340
Oh, of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

731
00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:45.179
Whoops.

732
00:36:45.239 --> 00:36:47.099
I mean, he's nervous and Scottish.

733
00:36:47.280 --> 00:36:51.059
That's obviously the script editor needed to do a bit further

734
00:36:51.059 --> 00:36:51.420
work.

735
00:36:51.719 --> 00:36:55.139
That is actually something that I'm thinking about, and I actually

736
00:36:55.139 --> 00:36:58.079
was very impressed about war between, is it emphasised slightly

737
00:36:58.079 --> 00:37:01.199
more of the degree to which any representative will be given, you

738
00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:04.079
know, scripts to read as opposed to actually being able to have an

739
00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:04.559
agency.

740
00:37:04.619 --> 00:37:08.280
There's not as much of a sense of that here, which I suppose makes

741
00:37:08.280 --> 00:37:12.119
Probisher feel more isolated, but he would be reading a script

742
00:37:12.119 --> 00:37:12.599
wouldn't he?

743
00:37:12.659 --> 00:37:14.219
You'd think so.

744
00:37:14.280 --> 00:37:17.159
But he's a he's a public servant.

745
00:37:17.219 --> 00:37:19.199
He'd be writing this group, so we might as well deliver it.

746
00:37:19.260 --> 00:37:24.239
It's like sending Sir Humphrey to meet some evil alien, isn't it?

747
00:37:24.300 --> 00:37:27.599
except so Humphrey probably would have actually come out of it

748
00:37:27.599 --> 00:37:27.840
better.

749
00:37:27.900 --> 00:37:29.639
There is that thing.

750
00:37:29.699 --> 00:37:34.260
We've had this in the previous episode as well where Frobisher is

751
00:37:34.260 --> 00:37:34.860
expendable.

752
00:37:35.519 --> 00:37:40.079
And all of that stuff where, you know, it's kind of like the

753
00:37:40.079 --> 00:37:45.179
Americans are mad at the English for having this sort of prior

754
00:37:45.179 --> 00:37:52.320
contact with the 456 and and even before, I think, anything comes

755
00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:55.019
out about the 456 having visited England before.

756
00:37:55.079 --> 00:38:01.860
It's the same sort of beat as the end of series 3 where the

757
00:38:01.860 --> 00:38:08.880
president of America has words with the master. for unilaterally

758
00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:13.139
like, you know, forming some sort of alliance with with an alien

759
00:38:13.139 --> 00:38:13.440
race.

760
00:38:13.500 --> 00:38:14.099
Yeah.

761
00:38:14.159 --> 00:38:14.639
Yeah.

762
00:38:14.699 --> 00:38:17.940
It's sort of that ongoing struggle.

763
00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:21.719
Doctor Who and related media have of, they are fundamentally sort

764
00:38:21.719 --> 00:38:24.599
of British nationalist television, but they're written by people

765
00:38:24.599 --> 00:38:27.059
who are also fundamentally sceptical of that.

766
00:38:27.119 --> 00:38:30.719
And usually the way they settle that tension is just by punching

767
00:38:30.719 --> 00:38:33.840
Americans, which is kind of the easiest move to diffuse that.

768
00:38:35.519 --> 00:38:39.719
Although the American guy seems to be in the riety. doesn't he?

769
00:38:39.780 --> 00:38:41.219
Yeah, he certainly does seem to be.

770
00:38:42.239 --> 00:38:43.260
He seems to win.

771
00:38:43.320 --> 00:38:45.539
Yeah, he has righteous anger.

772
00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:46.619
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

773
00:38:46.679 --> 00:38:51.840
But Green does actually use him, doesn't he, to kind of say, oh

774
00:38:51.840 --> 00:38:55.139
all right, I won't go in the room and negotiate and we'll just let

775
00:38:55.139 --> 00:38:57.719
the very expendable John Frobisher do that instead?

776
00:38:57.780 --> 00:39:02.880
So it does end up being what Green wanted anyway. what he

777
00:39:02.880 --> 00:39:06.599
basically said he was going to do to Frobisher yesterday.

778
00:39:06.719 --> 00:39:10.559
And there's that great line, you don't become prime minister by

779
00:39:10.559 --> 00:39:10.920
accident.

780
00:39:10.980 --> 00:39:13.139
Yeah, yeah. around that point.

781
00:39:13.199 --> 00:39:16.619
It's, yeah, it's he is really a villain.

782
00:39:16.679 --> 00:39:17.760
Yeah, 0 yeah, no.

783
00:39:17.820 --> 00:39:20.639
All the prime ministers are realistically.

784
00:39:20.699 --> 00:39:22.800
Or dead in a cupboard.

785
00:39:22.860 --> 00:39:23.760
Yeah, both.

786
00:39:23.820 --> 00:39:27.239
Usually 1st one, then the other in RTDs, Doctor Who.

787
00:39:27.300 --> 00:39:28.619
I think that's the thing.

788
00:39:28.679 --> 00:39:30.179
I miss about RTD.

789
00:39:30.239 --> 00:39:33.179
The 1st go around is he let his cynicism lead him a bit more.

790
00:39:33.239 --> 00:39:38.099
He talked a lot in interviews prior to the newer era where he felt

791
00:39:38.099 --> 00:39:40.860
the world was so dark he wanted Doctor Who to be a more comforting

792
00:39:40.860 --> 00:39:41.099
force.

793
00:39:41.159 --> 00:39:45.179
And I get that impulse, but he's just a better writer when he's a

794
00:39:45.179 --> 00:39:45.900
miserable bastard.

795
00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:47.159
Yeah, yeah.

796
00:39:47.219 --> 00:39:51.539
And also in some ways, that citizen helps you feel less alone.

797
00:39:51.599 --> 00:39:54.480
That's one of the things I enjoy about Russell's version, Doctor

798
00:39:54.480 --> 00:39:57.780
Who the 1st time around, is the, oh, I have that same sort of

799
00:39:57.780 --> 00:39:59.039
cynicism about the world.

800
00:39:59.099 --> 00:40:00.539
I'm not alone in feeling that.

801
00:40:00.599 --> 00:40:01.559
Yeah.

802
00:40:01.559 --> 00:40:04.860
So in some ways, that is the comfort.

803
00:40:04.920 --> 00:40:07.139
The comfort is the shared cynicism.

804
00:40:07.199 --> 00:40:10.980
I feel like he stopped writing subtext after the 1st season.

805
00:40:11.039 --> 00:40:16.019
Like the 1st season with Christopher Eccleston has so much subtext

806
00:40:16.019 --> 00:40:16.800
baked into it.

807
00:40:16.860 --> 00:40:20.579
Like each episode has like this deep other story behind it.

808
00:40:20.639 --> 00:40:25.679
Like even to the point of the long game being very much a critique

809
00:40:25.679 --> 00:40:30.059
on news media and hoarding power and all that kind of thing.

810
00:40:30.119 --> 00:40:32.460
Like everything has like a 2nd layer to it.

811
00:40:32.519 --> 00:40:35.820
But from season 2 one was just like, no, no, I've just got to tell

812
00:40:35.820 --> 00:40:36.599
the story and get home.

813
00:40:36.659 --> 00:40:40.260
I mean, I think we've sort of said this before on flight to

814
00:40:40.260 --> 00:40:44.099
entirety, at least, that like season one is being done in the dark

815
00:40:44.099 --> 00:40:47.579
they have no idea what it's going to be like, and then suddenly

816
00:40:47.579 --> 00:40:50.699
they're this giant hit, and they decide we don't need to be

817
00:40:50.699 --> 00:40:51.599
tentative anymore.

818
00:40:51.659 --> 00:40:55.139
And then, of course, this thing, tortured children of earth, where

819
00:40:55.139 --> 00:40:59.099
they're able to commandeer, like at 5 consecutive nights on BBC

820
00:40:59.099 --> 00:41:05.699
one at 9 PM, and where this stupid show, which had sort of 4000000

821
00:41:05.699 --> 00:41:08.039
viewers were sort of bumbling along at 4000000 viewers, suddenly

822
00:41:08.039 --> 00:41:11.280
getting kind of 6000000 viewers and becoming a big thing.

823
00:41:11.340 --> 00:41:18.000
Um, you know, like this is, like I love that 1st era as well of

824
00:41:18.000 --> 00:41:21.599
RTD and I'm also kind of a big fan of RTD too.

825
00:41:21.659 --> 00:41:26.460
But this, I think, you know, in a way is kind of their crowning

826
00:41:26.460 --> 00:41:30.719
achievement in the sense that it's the longest Doctor Who story

827
00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:32.340
basically ever.

828
00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:35.099
It's got a massive cast.

829
00:41:35.159 --> 00:41:37.019
It's really hugely ambitious.

830
00:41:37.079 --> 00:41:43.500
Uh, it strives to get the kind of a level of realism and a level

831
00:41:43.500 --> 00:41:46.739
of kind of everyday life in there that Doctor Who sometimes

832
00:41:46.739 --> 00:41:47.760
doesn't get.

833
00:41:47.820 --> 00:41:49.800
The stuff with Rihanna.

834
00:41:49.860 --> 00:41:51.059
Oh my god.

835
00:41:51.059 --> 00:41:51.719
This week.

836
00:41:51.780 --> 00:41:53.219
That bit.

837
00:41:53.280 --> 00:41:58.139
So, so we go to her house and she's she's cleaning some kid who's

838
00:41:58.139 --> 00:42:00.599
got food or something.

839
00:42:00.659 --> 00:42:01.920
She's got the children.

840
00:42:01.980 --> 00:42:06.960
And it's Johnny's idea to charge 10 quid ahead and she doesn't

841
00:42:06.960 --> 00:42:10.019
like it, but the moment a kid throws up on himself or something.

842
00:42:10.079 --> 00:42:11.519
And she's washing the clothes.

843
00:42:11.579 --> 00:42:13.739
She said, tell your mum it's another 2 quid.

844
00:42:14.639 --> 00:42:18.780
And that's when, like, that's the point at which the children are

845
00:42:18.780 --> 00:42:19.440
all pointing.

846
00:42:19.500 --> 00:42:24.059
And I have to say, and I will say this again later because it

847
00:42:24.059 --> 00:42:29.519
continues to be the case, Misha is the single best child when it

848
00:42:29.519 --> 00:42:33.900
comes to doing scary possessed by aliens acting.

849
00:42:33.900 --> 00:42:35.159
She's so great.

850
00:42:35.219 --> 00:42:39.420
She's like this little kid with pigtails who absolutely throws

851
00:42:39.420 --> 00:42:40.559
herself into it.

852
00:42:40.619 --> 00:42:43.739
She does the best scream in episode one.

853
00:42:43.800 --> 00:42:49.019
She's fiercely pointing at her mother with her beetled brown. and

854
00:42:49.019 --> 00:42:49.320
stuff.

855
00:42:49.380 --> 00:42:50.219
She's so great.

856
00:42:51.179 --> 00:42:57.059
Like, in episode 2 or episode three, by a sapone.

857
00:42:57.119 --> 00:42:59.579
Bias Sapono. was very funny.

858
00:42:59.639 --> 00:43:00.539
That was, yeah.

859
00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:02.039
That's not mission.

860
00:43:02.099 --> 00:43:05.340
Okay, I have to say an anecdote about that.

861
00:43:05.400 --> 00:43:08.400
Shortly after children of earth aired.

862
00:43:08.460 --> 00:43:11.639
I was at San Diego Comic-Con, which was one of the years Russell T

863
00:43:11.639 --> 00:43:12.599
Davis was at that event.

864
00:43:12.659 --> 00:43:17.639
And I'm running around there as an actual child and I meet Russell

865
00:43:17.639 --> 00:43:18.360
T. Davies.

866
00:43:18.420 --> 00:43:21.059
And I tell him, Torchwood was amazing.

867
00:43:21.119 --> 00:43:25.800
And he looks at me like, a horrible crime has just happened.

868
00:43:25.860 --> 00:43:27.900
He's like, oh, you watch Torchwood.

869
00:43:27.960 --> 00:43:29.579
I was like, no, my parents said it was okay.

870
00:43:29.639 --> 00:43:30.239
I loved it.

871
00:43:30.300 --> 00:43:32.519
And then I quoted, we want a pony.

872
00:43:32.579 --> 00:43:37.500
We want a pony, which I did put him at ease that that's what a

873
00:43:37.500 --> 00:43:38.400
child took away from that.

874
00:43:40.380 --> 00:43:43.980
I mean, it does work, you know, like it's that Doctor Who thing

875
00:43:43.980 --> 00:43:45.360
working on multiple levels as well.

876
00:43:45.420 --> 00:43:50.880
You know, like the incredible spectacle, but the comedy, the hero

877
00:43:50.880 --> 00:43:52.260
moments, all of that sort of stuff.

878
00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:56.340
Yanto yesterday with the with the big forklift thing.

879
00:43:56.400 --> 00:44:00.360
Like all of that really fun, silly stuff, the criming, like that's

880
00:44:00.360 --> 00:44:02.940
absolutely the sort of thing that you could appreciate.

881
00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:07.199
And then all of the cynicism and all of the darkness in his Doctor

882
00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:10.079
Who and here is much more conceptual.

883
00:44:10.139 --> 00:44:12.719
Despite how it sort of gross the 456 are.

884
00:44:12.780 --> 00:44:16.980
But just the fact that what not just what the aliens are going to

885
00:44:16.980 --> 00:44:20.340
do to us, but what our own government would do to us and does do

886
00:44:20.340 --> 00:44:22.139
to us all the time.

887
00:44:22.139 --> 00:44:22.920
All the time.

888
00:44:22.980 --> 00:44:27.300
It's also, I love how they're foregrounding for the most part, the

889
00:44:27.300 --> 00:44:31.139
children that are going to be affected, the children of working

890
00:44:31.139 --> 00:44:32.940
class and poor people.

891
00:44:33.000 --> 00:44:34.139
Yeah.

892
00:44:34.139 --> 00:44:34.559
Yeah?

893
00:44:34.679 --> 00:44:38.159
Like the, the, the children that are, that um, and her sister and

894
00:44:38.159 --> 00:44:41.880
her husband are looking after are the children that they decide in

895
00:44:41.880 --> 00:44:43.559
later episodes that they're going to give.

896
00:44:43.619 --> 00:44:44.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

897
00:44:44.579 --> 00:44:49.199
Like, it's just, I've got to say, like, I love that they're using

898
00:44:49.199 --> 00:44:54.119
Katie Wicks, who plays Yanto sister in this, like, she's so

899
00:44:54.119 --> 00:45:00.719
gloriously, uh, working class and amazingly horrific and, you know

900
00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:03.420
but then really maternal looking after all those kids.

901
00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:07.920
And it's, I'm so, like it took me, like, I've watched, so this is

902
00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:08.519
the 3rd one now.

903
00:45:08.579 --> 00:45:09.119
I've watched it.

904
00:45:09.179 --> 00:45:13.199
It took me 3 episodes to go, oh, she's the officious woman from

905
00:45:13.199 --> 00:45:14.579
Ted Lesson.

906
00:45:14.639 --> 00:45:15.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

907
00:45:15.539 --> 00:45:18.900
It didn't register for ages because again, so many great

908
00:45:18.900 --> 00:45:22.260
performers in this show playing characters that we haven't seen

909
00:45:22.260 --> 00:45:23.880
them play anywhere else before.

910
00:45:23.940 --> 00:45:28.440
It's just, yeah, the cast is really phenomenal.

911
00:45:28.500 --> 00:45:31.800
Like every single person is kind of batting a 100.

912
00:45:32.099 --> 00:45:35.460
Even the guy that's doing, you know, building the cage that is

913
00:45:35.460 --> 00:45:39.480
just sort of like sneakily looking off everywhere all the time.

914
00:45:39.599 --> 00:45:44.280
So we said last week that we actually have 3 classes, don't we?

915
00:45:44.340 --> 00:45:48.119
We have like a permanent undersecretary, Frobisher and his wife

916
00:45:48.119 --> 00:45:49.920
Anna, who live in a big house.

917
00:45:49.980 --> 00:45:51.420
We see the exterior of the house.

918
00:45:51.480 --> 00:45:57.420
We get the more middle class, Alice and Stephen, uh, in that other

919
00:45:57.420 --> 00:45:57.719
house.

920
00:45:57.780 --> 00:46:00.480
And then we get the working class, you know, Rhiannon and Johnny

921
00:46:00.480 --> 00:46:01.440
and their kids.

922
00:46:01.500 --> 00:46:07.380
And in fact, they're the kids who go on the run from the army who

923
00:46:07.380 --> 00:46:10.199
are snatching children off the street in episode five.

924
00:46:23.460 --> 00:46:27.900
Yeah, I actually just watched this episode in isolation without

925
00:46:27.900 --> 00:46:32.519
the rest of Children of Earth, which felt very wrong. very

926
00:46:32.519 --> 00:46:33.719
fundamentally unnatural.

927
00:46:33.780 --> 00:46:38.039
It is very strange to do that as a Doctor Who fan.

928
00:46:38.099 --> 00:46:41.280
But also just the fact that, you know, the episodes don't get

929
00:46:41.280 --> 00:46:44.699
individual titles, really, the fact that they air on consecutive

930
00:46:44.699 --> 00:46:47.760
nights, that each one of them covers a day's action.

931
00:46:47.820 --> 00:46:50.099
It is completely serialised.

932
00:46:50.159 --> 00:46:52.019
It's like Planet of the Spiders.

933
00:46:52.079 --> 00:46:57.239
It's not like Tortured Series 4 or Doctor Who series 3 or anything

934
00:46:57.239 --> 00:46:59.579
like that that tells an overarching story.

935
00:46:59.639 --> 00:47:03.300
It is just a single story, you know, really sort of strong way.

936
00:47:03.360 --> 00:47:06.539
And although this does have that individual that sort of

937
00:47:06.539 --> 00:47:10.980
trajectory that Jack goes on as well as the arrival of the 456.

938
00:47:11.159 --> 00:47:12.900
There is a particular thing that happens here.

939
00:47:12.960 --> 00:47:16.920
It does really kind of merge into the whole thing, I think.

940
00:47:17.039 --> 00:47:21.059
Yeah, genuinely, if you had put a gun to my head or asked me, where

941
00:47:21.059 --> 00:47:23.400
does this episode specifically start and end?

942
00:47:23.460 --> 00:47:25.139
I would have given you the complete wrong answer?

943
00:47:25.199 --> 00:47:27.059
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

944
00:47:27.119 --> 00:47:31.980
I wonder if this is Russell trying to recapture that, um, feeling

945
00:47:31.980 --> 00:47:37.320
that kids of the 80s had watching Doctor Who when in the UK it was

946
00:47:37.320 --> 00:47:39.360
was it like Monday, Tuesday or Tuesday, Wednesday?

947
00:47:39.420 --> 00:47:42.659
And so like that would get a cliffhanger and then the very next

948
00:47:42.659 --> 00:47:44.099
day was the next episode.

949
00:47:44.159 --> 00:47:45.840
Like we had it in Australia all the time.

950
00:47:45.900 --> 00:47:48.659
That was our experience of watching Doctor Who.

951
00:47:48.719 --> 00:47:51.420
So watching Children of Earth for me was just like, oh, it's the

952
00:47:51.420 --> 00:47:51.840
old days.

953
00:47:51.900 --> 00:47:54.659
You get the cliffhanger, then the next day, the story, then you

954
00:47:54.659 --> 00:47:57.539
cliffhanger, and the next day, the story, and you got 5 days of

955
00:47:57.539 --> 00:47:58.559
fun.

956
00:47:58.679 --> 00:48:00.059
And then the goodies.

957
00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:01.739
And then the goodies. was before.

958
00:48:01.800 --> 00:48:04.860
But it was also, it's also, I think, the experience of just

959
00:48:04.860 --> 00:48:06.420
spending a long time with people.

960
00:48:06.480 --> 00:48:10.019
Like, I think that when the show came back in 2005, it was

961
00:48:10.019 --> 00:48:15.480
inevitably going to be 45 minute episodes that were whole story

962
00:48:15.900 --> 00:48:20.940
tune in every week for part of a story, still less a quarter of a

963
00:48:20.940 --> 00:48:21.239
story.

964
00:48:21.300 --> 00:48:22.320
That's madness.

965
00:48:22.380 --> 00:48:23.400
Like who wants that?

966
00:48:23.699 --> 00:48:30.659
But what you lose is having a big guest cast in a story, which we

967
00:48:30.659 --> 00:48:33.900
get to have here and having a story told over a period of time.

968
00:48:33.960 --> 00:48:39.539
And, you know, this has a lot of the same kind of vibe as, I think

969
00:48:39.539 --> 00:48:46.260
season 7 of classic Peru, where, you know, you spend 3 hours with

970
00:48:46.260 --> 00:48:49.320
a group of people who all have their own relationships with each

971
00:48:49.320 --> 00:48:53.820
other, who interact, who have their own arcs and things.

972
00:48:53.880 --> 00:48:57.059
And then there's a big problem on earth that has some kind of

973
00:48:57.059 --> 00:48:57.960
scale to it.

974
00:48:58.019 --> 00:49:01.980
Like it does seem like the Silurians or ambassadors of death or

975
00:49:01.980 --> 00:49:02.340
something.

976
00:49:02.519 --> 00:49:06.179
There's even a big capture escape with Jack in the 2nd episode.

977
00:49:06.239 --> 00:49:08.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.

978
00:49:08.940 --> 00:49:11.280
It is actually like that, isn't it?

979
00:49:11.340 --> 00:49:15.119
It's like the, you know, episode 5 of Invasion of the Dinosaurs

980
00:49:15.119 --> 00:49:17.280
where we're just running away for an episode.

981
00:49:17.340 --> 00:49:20.760
But there is enough other stuff going on because we have all of

982
00:49:20.760 --> 00:49:24.000
our other characters and their stories developing as well.

983
00:49:24.059 --> 00:49:27.480
It doesn't just seem like we're marking time the way we are.

984
00:49:27.539 --> 00:49:29.400
Oh, no, it feels...

985
00:49:29.400 --> 00:49:31.019
It's more like Liz running over the wheel.

986
00:49:31.139 --> 00:49:33.179
Ambassadors of death.

987
00:49:35.699 --> 00:49:39.900
But again, it's the efficiency here that really makes it shine.

988
00:49:39.960 --> 00:49:43.139
You can get the thrills of the capture escape to keep the pace off

989
00:49:43.199 --> 00:49:46.139
while juggling 17 other plates with the large cast.

990
00:49:46.199 --> 00:49:49.019
So it never really feels like you're marking time.

991
00:49:49.079 --> 00:49:51.539
It always feels like there's another plot advancing, more

992
00:49:51.539 --> 00:49:52.199
attention being built.

993
00:49:52.260 --> 00:49:56.219
I want to talk about one other thing that he's part of Jack's arc

994
00:49:56.219 --> 00:49:59.940
and it is the phone call that he has with Frobisher just before

995
00:49:59.940 --> 00:50:04.739
Frobisher goes in and speaks to the 456 that 2nd time.

996
00:50:05.039 --> 00:50:10.860
And it's the one that lands with Frobisher saying that Jack is a

997
00:50:10.860 --> 00:50:11.340
good person.

998
00:50:11.820 --> 00:50:14.519
This show will sure prove that wrong.

999
00:50:14.579 --> 00:50:15.659
Yeah, yeah.

1000
00:50:15.719 --> 00:50:19.260
I think it's, like, I think it's really properly good because, you

1001
00:50:19.260 --> 00:50:22.199
know, like Jack is a sort of stupid ludicrous space person.

1002
00:50:22.260 --> 00:50:25.440
I mean, he even calls himself a space-time event or something, you

1003
00:50:25.440 --> 00:50:28.679
know, like a fixed point in time. know, just absolutely absurd.

1004
00:50:28.739 --> 00:50:31.739
And Frobisher is a civil servant, you know, like he's just kind of

1005
00:50:31.739 --> 00:50:35.280
like a sort of fairly normal person who has a family and a car and

1006
00:50:35.280 --> 00:50:37.619
wife and 2 daughters and stuff.

1007
00:50:37.679 --> 00:50:41.760
But Frobis is evil and acknowledges that he's evil in a way that

1008
00:50:41.760 --> 00:50:44.219
he sees that Jack isn't.

1009
00:50:44.219 --> 00:50:49.139
And I think that that's really properly good and properly

1010
00:50:49.139 --> 00:50:49.440
interesting.

1011
00:50:49.500 --> 00:50:51.780
But then he just says, hold my beer.

1012
00:50:51.840 --> 00:50:55.800
I think the show is very interesting in setting that up to prove

1013
00:50:55.800 --> 00:50:59.940
it wrong, actually, because by the end, we have Jack murdering a

1014
00:50:59.940 --> 00:51:03.179
child, whereas we get a speech about how John Probisher is a good

1015
00:51:03.179 --> 00:51:04.380
man.

1016
00:51:04.440 --> 00:51:09.420
But even at the end of this episode, we go from Jack being told

1017
00:51:09.420 --> 00:51:12.960
he's a good man to the discovery that Jack gave the kids to the

1018
00:51:12.960 --> 00:51:13.920
forefighters.

1019
00:51:13.980 --> 00:51:15.179
He's the man that fights the monsters.

1020
00:51:15.239 --> 00:51:18.239
This is what he does. then it's like, no, no, no, I like, you know

1021
00:51:18.239 --> 00:51:19.440
he was there.

1022
00:51:19.500 --> 00:51:23.099
He gave the kids like it's just, 0 my god.

1023
00:51:23.159 --> 00:51:25.019
It takes a monster to fight a monster.

1024
00:51:25.079 --> 00:51:25.440
You know that.

1025
00:51:25.500 --> 00:51:29.099
And it's really properly good too, because that scene at the

1026
00:51:29.099 --> 00:51:30.300
beginning of day one.

1027
00:51:30.360 --> 00:51:32.400
We see no adults at all.

1028
00:51:32.460 --> 00:51:36.000
There's a hint, I think, if you look back at it, you might be able

1029
00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:39.000
to see like Jack's coat or something.

1030
00:51:39.059 --> 00:51:42.840
But basically that's a thing that just children do rather than

1031
00:51:42.840 --> 00:51:44.460
something that's done to them by adults.

1032
00:51:44.519 --> 00:51:46.739
The adults are effaced from that version of it.

1033
00:51:46.800 --> 00:51:51.059
And so all the way through, we keep going back to that in Clem's

1034
00:51:51.059 --> 00:51:51.659
flashbacks.

1035
00:51:51.780 --> 00:51:54.000
Like he keeps remembering more and more of it.

1036
00:51:54.059 --> 00:51:57.840
Until the point just before Jack comes along, I think, that he

1037
00:51:57.840 --> 00:52:00.179
actually sees that Jack was there.

1038
00:52:00.239 --> 00:52:03.719
And there's the moment that even Jack realises he was there.

1039
00:52:03.780 --> 00:52:08.940
Like, I thought he was being super shifty when Yanter was

1040
00:52:08.940 --> 00:52:11.460
mentioning the names of those people who were killed at the same

1041
00:52:11.460 --> 00:52:14.639
time, but he's not.

1042
00:52:14.699 --> 00:52:17.219
I was misreading that or maybe it was just a...

1043
00:52:17.219 --> 00:52:18.539
It's just John Perriman trying to act.

1044
00:52:18.599 --> 00:52:19.500
Oh my god.

1045
00:52:19.559 --> 00:52:20.400
Maybe that was it.

1046
00:52:20.460 --> 00:52:21.480
I think that's cool.

1047
00:52:21.480 --> 00:52:22.260
You can't act through that.

1048
00:52:22.260 --> 00:52:23.039
Botox.

1049
00:52:23.099 --> 00:52:23.760
It's real hard.

1050
00:52:23.940 --> 00:52:28.679
But he realises like that's when he remembers, isn't it?

1051
00:52:28.739 --> 00:52:33.719
Like he gets Yanto to bring up the pictures of the names and then

1052
00:52:33.719 --> 00:52:38.039
you know, gets like the internet was so wild. back then in 2009.

1053
00:52:38.219 --> 00:52:39.360
Get, you know, there.

1054
00:52:39.420 --> 00:52:40.199
Yeah, yeah, that's right.

1055
00:52:40.260 --> 00:52:41.400
Now, age them down.

1056
00:52:41.880 --> 00:52:42.719
Enhance that quarter.

1057
00:52:42.780 --> 00:52:44.400
Make them back in one.

1058
00:52:44.460 --> 00:52:46.139
Put them in lodge for uniforms.

1059
00:52:46.199 --> 00:52:46.920
That's them.

1060
00:52:46.980 --> 00:52:47.579
That's them.

1061
00:52:47.639 --> 00:52:51.239
Yeah, and that's when he realises and that's when he heads off

1062
00:52:51.239 --> 00:52:51.840
isn't it?

1063
00:52:51.960 --> 00:52:52.739
Yeah.

1064
00:52:52.800 --> 00:52:56.340
But that's the points at which he's being told that he's a good

1065
00:52:56.340 --> 00:53:01.500
man by Frobisher after he almost his way of to make sure to sort

1066
00:53:01.500 --> 00:53:04.079
of persuade him not to go back and do anything with Anna.

1067
00:53:04.139 --> 00:53:08.099
But the thing is, the thing that Frobis is threatening to do to

1068
00:53:08.099 --> 00:53:12.420
Stephen in that phone call is what actually Jack will end up doing

1069
00:53:12.420 --> 00:53:15.179
to Stephen in the final episode.

1070
00:53:16.139 --> 00:53:19.500
It's interesting that Clem can only smell queer people

1071
00:53:19.500 --> 00:53:19.800
apparently.

1072
00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:24.960
That's not clear our setup there, because he smells yepto. like

1073
00:53:24.960 --> 00:53:25.440
he's queer.

1074
00:53:25.500 --> 00:53:26.880
Nazi's like, I can smell him.

1075
00:53:26.940 --> 00:53:28.440
He's coming about Jack.

1076
00:53:28.500 --> 00:53:30.179
He never mentions how Gwen smells.

1077
00:53:30.239 --> 00:53:31.679
No, he could smell the pregnancy.

1078
00:53:31.800 --> 00:53:35.699
He did smell that she was pregnant. in part one.

1079
00:53:35.760 --> 00:53:36.840
So he could smell her.

1080
00:53:36.900 --> 00:53:39.599
I really like Yanto's reply, though.

1081
00:53:39.659 --> 00:53:43.500
It's just, hey, it's not 1965 now, which I thought was pretty

1082
00:53:43.500 --> 00:53:43.739
good.

1083
00:53:44.219 --> 00:53:46.019
Here's queer.

1084
00:53:46.079 --> 00:53:49.019
Like, it's almost a childlike response. like, he's not saying

1085
00:53:49.019 --> 00:53:52.019
queer as that person is a queer as an insult.

1086
00:53:52.079 --> 00:53:53.579
That's the word he knows.

1087
00:53:53.579 --> 00:53:56.760
And he silly as a child as this man is still a child.

1088
00:53:56.820 --> 00:54:00.059
He's emotionally stunted at that age.

1089
00:54:00.119 --> 00:54:03.179
So like, I didn't read it as him being homophobic.

1090
00:54:03.239 --> 00:54:06.360
I just read it as him using a word he knows to describe someone

1091
00:54:06.360 --> 00:54:07.320
who is queer.

1092
00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:12.599
Also, Yanto's having trouble in this moment of like not knowing if

1093
00:54:12.599 --> 00:54:17.219
he's gay, if he's bisexual, if he's jack sexual or what's

1094
00:54:17.219 --> 00:54:17.460
happening.

1095
00:54:17.519 --> 00:54:21.900
So I think it's also a lot of internalised homophobia suddenly

1096
00:54:21.900 --> 00:54:26.219
coming out of him, like going, it's, you can't say that kind of

1097
00:54:26.219 --> 00:54:26.400
thing.

1098
00:54:26.460 --> 00:54:27.360
It's like, but...

1099
00:54:27.420 --> 00:54:29.219
Yeah, like I had actually thought it was worse than that.

1100
00:54:29.280 --> 00:54:31.380
And I still think probably it's worse than you. think it is

1101
00:54:31.380 --> 00:54:31.679
James.

1102
00:54:31.739 --> 00:54:35.579
I do think that he is meant to be, like he's a sympathetic

1103
00:54:35.579 --> 00:54:39.179
character and someone that we have, you know, like we have a fair

1104
00:54:39.179 --> 00:54:40.260
amount of pity for.

1105
00:54:40.320 --> 00:54:45.780
We see him crying when Gwen turns up to bust him out of the lockup

1106
00:54:45.780 --> 00:54:50.940
and she has to hug him, even though he smells, I can just tell.

1107
00:54:51.000 --> 00:54:55.019
Um, uh, and she, she, yeah.

1108
00:54:55.079 --> 00:54:55.440
Yeah.

1109
00:54:55.500 --> 00:54:58.739
But he is a sympathetic character and then he comes out with a

1110
00:54:58.739 --> 00:54:59.219
slur.

1111
00:54:59.280 --> 00:55:00.059
Do you know what I mean?

1112
00:55:00.119 --> 00:55:02.039
Like, I'm happy to reclaim queer.

1113
00:55:02.099 --> 00:55:02.880
I think it's a great word.

1114
00:55:02.940 --> 00:55:05.340
I use it to refer to myself all the time.

1115
00:55:05.400 --> 00:55:08.400
But it's even saying LGBTQIA.

1116
00:55:08.519 --> 00:55:08.760
Exactly.

1117
00:55:08.820 --> 00:55:09.300
Exactly.

1118
00:55:09.360 --> 00:55:12.300
And so he is using it as a slur.

1119
00:55:12.300 --> 00:55:16.500
And I just thought it was kind of interesting for Russell to make

1120
00:55:16.500 --> 00:55:21.900
us sympathetic with a character who is like a bit awful in it. in

1121
00:55:21.900 --> 00:55:22.559
at least some way.

1122
00:55:22.619 --> 00:55:23.219
Yeah.

1123
00:55:23.280 --> 00:55:24.719
It's a very Russell thing to do, though.

1124
00:55:24.780 --> 00:55:26.039
I mean, of course it is.

1125
00:55:26.099 --> 00:55:28.260
You know, Rose uses gay in a pejorative term.

1126
00:55:28.320 --> 00:55:31.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah Like the 2nd episode.

1127
00:55:31.079 --> 00:55:34.500
I think I think that's what I love about Russell's characters.

1128
00:55:34.559 --> 00:55:37.019
They're never completely sympathetic.

1129
00:55:37.079 --> 00:55:39.360
They never completely unflawed.

1130
00:55:39.420 --> 00:55:42.599
No, they're never good in the evil shades.

1131
00:55:42.659 --> 00:55:43.260
Yeah.

1132
00:55:43.320 --> 00:55:46.800
Shades of gray. well-meaning and not well-meaning.

1133
00:55:46.860 --> 00:55:48.179
Yeah, yeah.

1134
00:55:48.239 --> 00:55:49.440
Shades of gay.

1135
00:55:49.500 --> 00:55:50.880
Shades of gay.

1136
00:55:54.719 --> 00:56:00.059
So our 2 plants really come into focus like right at the very end

1137
00:56:00.059 --> 00:56:00.480
don't they?

1138
00:56:00.539 --> 00:56:06.960
And so we have Jack kind of reaching his low point in that arc and

1139
00:56:06.960 --> 00:56:09.300
he was blown up at the end of episode one.

1140
00:56:09.360 --> 00:56:12.239
So he's... blow point.

1141
00:56:12.300 --> 00:56:14.039
Yeah. blowpoint.

1142
00:56:14.099 --> 00:56:18.239
And the thing that the thing that's really good, I think the thing

1143
00:56:18.239 --> 00:56:20.820
that ties the 2 plot threads together is just the use of the word

1144
00:56:20.820 --> 00:56:21.420
gift.

1145
00:56:21.480 --> 00:56:27.300
So this is Jack admitting, even though he wasn't in the room, he

1146
00:56:27.300 --> 00:56:31.860
uses the same word that the 456 used to describe what they want

1147
00:56:31.860 --> 00:56:35.760
from humanity, which is the children they want, a gift.

1148
00:56:35.880 --> 00:56:40.199
And then when Jack comes in, he says, I gave the 12 children to

1149
00:56:40.199 --> 00:56:42.599
the 456 in 1965 as a gift.

1150
00:56:42.659 --> 00:56:47.219
Just to understand how he's not put that together until now, even

1151
00:56:47.219 --> 00:56:50.340
in the 1st episode when the kids have started doing stuff.

1152
00:56:50.460 --> 00:56:54.059
Yeah, but this is a guy who's lived 100s and 100s of years.

1153
00:56:54.119 --> 00:56:58.920
Like, I, I, like, whenever it comes up in my stupid solo podcast

1154
00:56:58.920 --> 00:57:02.579
where it's like, oh, how can the doctor not know this?

1155
00:57:02.639 --> 00:57:07.199
Like, I think I was talking about the, um, the story in the engine

1156
00:57:07.199 --> 00:57:12.179
and how does the doctor remember being the fugitive doctor?

1157
00:57:12.239 --> 00:57:15.000
And it's like, those memories might be in there, but he's had

1158
00:57:15.000 --> 00:57:16.679
1000s of years of memory.

1159
00:57:16.739 --> 00:57:19.199
Who knows when they're going to pop up?

1160
00:57:19.260 --> 00:57:21.840
Like, the doctor doesn't have the memory of a fan.

1161
00:57:22.800 --> 00:57:27.420
Well, also, the 456 didn't have this modus operandi before, you

1162
00:57:27.420 --> 00:57:30.360
know, last time they showed up, they just wanted kids and they're

1163
00:57:30.360 --> 00:57:32.460
like, here, we're going to cure the flu for you.

1164
00:57:32.519 --> 00:57:38.099
Which, honestly, if we're going to nitpick, it's very writerly to

1165
00:57:38.099 --> 00:57:42.960
have the tab Jack say gift, when really, in no way was a gift, it

1166
00:57:42.960 --> 00:57:43.739
was a trade.

1167
00:57:43.800 --> 00:57:47.159
Yeah, but it is deliberately that, isn't it?

1168
00:57:47.219 --> 00:57:48.840
is trying to tie them together.

1169
00:57:48.900 --> 00:57:52.500
And it's sort of rather wonderful, I think, to have the 456 use

1170
00:57:52.500 --> 00:57:53.159
that word.

1171
00:57:53.159 --> 00:57:59.579
And then have him come in, not having heard that, and use the same

1172
00:57:59.579 --> 00:57:59.820
word.

1173
00:57:59.940 --> 00:58:02.280
But also the way he talks to Frobisher.

1174
00:58:02.340 --> 00:58:06.179
He goes, if this is who it's meant to be, you know that they don't

1175
00:58:06.179 --> 00:58:07.019
stick to their word.

1176
00:58:07.019 --> 00:58:11.099
Because obviously it implies that the gift was given to just rack

1177
00:58:11.099 --> 00:58:11.820
off and don't come back.

1178
00:58:11.880 --> 00:58:12.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1179
00:58:12.780 --> 00:58:13.019
Yeah.

1180
00:58:13.079 --> 00:58:13.860
Exactly.

1181
00:58:13.920 --> 00:58:17.159
Yeah, and so, of course, you know, like the 10%.

1182
00:58:17.219 --> 00:58:20.519
Do they come back again in 40 years and ask for another 50%?

1183
00:58:20.579 --> 00:58:22.679
We just have to kill them at this point.

1184
00:58:22.739 --> 00:58:24.059
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1185
00:58:48.119 --> 00:58:50.460
Well, that's all the time we have this week.

1186
00:58:50.519 --> 00:58:53.699
We'll be back next week to work out just whose children are going

1187
00:58:53.699 --> 00:58:58.260
to fill the home office's giant gift pan bar in Torchwood, Children

1188
00:58:58.260 --> 00:58:59.699
of Earth, day four.

1189
00:58:59.760 --> 00:59:03.599
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

1190
00:59:03.599 --> 00:59:07.440
and you can keep up with us on our website, 500yearDiary.com, where

1191
00:59:07.440 --> 00:59:10.860
you'll find our social media links, as well as links to all of our

1192
00:59:10.860 --> 00:59:14.639
other podcasts, including the entirety of flight through entirety

1193
00:59:14.639 --> 00:59:18.840
which includes every episode of our 4 Doctor Who podcasts.

1194
00:59:19.260 --> 00:59:22.980
Until next time, remember that when you turn up to a friend's

1195
00:59:22.980 --> 00:59:26.519
place for dinner, a bottle of wine is a gift likely to go down

1196
00:59:26.519 --> 00:59:29.039
much better than 10% of a child.

1197
00:59:29.159 --> 00:59:32.039
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1198
00:59:32.099 --> 00:59:32.940
Good night.

1199
00:59:33.000 --> 00:59:34.199
Ta-ta.

1200
00:59:34.260 --> 00:59:34.679
Good night.

1201
00:59:45.000 --> 00:59:49.679
That was 500 year diary, starring Nathan Bottomley, Kevin Bernard

1202
00:59:49.679 --> 00:59:51.360
Adam Richard, and James Selwood.

1203
00:59:51.420 --> 00:59:54.300
The theme was composed by Cameron Lamb.

1204
00:59:54.360 --> 00:59:57.300
This episode, nervous and Scottish, was recorded on the 7th of

1205
00:59:57.300 --> 01:00:00.659
March, 2026 and released on the 29th of March.

1206
01:00:04.260 --> 01:00:09.000
This week, we'd like to thank our newest sponsor, GastroStop.

1207
01:00:09.059 --> 01:00:12.179
If you're invading an alien planet to demand the surrender of

1208
01:00:12.179 --> 01:00:16.139
35000000 of their children, do it with the confidence only gastro

1209
01:00:16.139 --> 01:00:20.039
stop can provide, now available in chewable mint flavour that you

1210
01:00:20.039 --> 01:00:22.800
can take without water or hydrochloric acid.

1211
01:00:31.920 --> 01:00:35.039
Incidentally, I just have to ask, have you guys seen the news

1212
01:00:35.039 --> 01:00:39.659
about what's happened in Cardiff recently evolving Torchwood?

1213
01:00:39.719 --> 01:00:43.980
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. and Melvin actually just posted

1214
01:00:44.039 --> 01:00:48.000
because he was on, uh, he was on, uh, well, episode two.

1215
01:00:48.059 --> 01:00:48.960
I think he was on last week.

1216
01:00:49.019 --> 01:00:53.280
And he was talking about the shrine coming down.

1217
01:00:53.280 --> 01:00:58.679
And of course, um, Gareth, was he on, um, he like posted something

1218
01:00:58.679 --> 01:01:02.159
on Instagram or something, like talking about it, which was kind

1219
01:01:02.159 --> 01:01:03.300
of sweet.

1220
01:01:03.360 --> 01:01:05.820
Yeah, like it is kind of sweet.

1221
01:01:05.880 --> 01:01:06.539
It was insane.

1222
01:01:06.599 --> 01:01:07.500
It was always insane.

1223
01:01:07.559 --> 01:01:12.179
And we will talk about it because obviously he dies in in a couple

1224
01:01:12.179 --> 01:01:13.679
a couple of episodes time.

1225
01:01:14.639 --> 01:01:17.400
Yeah, he's not going to be fine.

1226
01:01:17.460 --> 01:01:19.800
Don't spoil this rewatch podcast.

1227
01:01:20.219 --> 01:01:24.539
But, but it's, I, for one, I'm very mad, Russell, at Barry

1228
01:01:24.539 --> 01:01:25.139
Argaze.

1229
01:01:25.199 --> 01:01:26.760
Yeah, and that was it.

1230
01:01:26.820 --> 01:01:28.619
There was a huge bury our gaze thing.

1231
01:01:28.679 --> 01:01:29.340
Do you know what I mean?

1232
01:01:29.400 --> 01:01:31.679
It's like Russell's, you know, like Russell's killing the gay

1233
01:01:31.679 --> 01:01:33.239
character and this is an outrage.

1234
01:01:33.300 --> 01:01:41.940
And for me, like I just thought, oh, you know, like this elevates

1235
01:01:41.940 --> 01:01:45.119
that relationship and becomes like a giant operatic thing, do you

1236
01:01:45.119 --> 01:01:45.659
know what it means?

1237
01:01:45.719 --> 01:01:46.440
like a giant loss.

1238
01:01:46.500 --> 01:01:48.239
It's, you know, they freed Janto.

1239
01:01:48.300 --> 01:01:53.820
But, but he, um, but, you know, like Jack's feelings about that

1240
01:01:53.820 --> 01:01:57.539
are hugely important for the rest of the thing, that's a hugely

1241
01:01:57.539 --> 01:02:01.199
important consequential relationship, it's not just a fling.

1242
01:02:01.260 --> 01:02:04.739
It, you know, it, it, it, it, some, it's a big deal.

1243
01:02:04.860 --> 01:02:09.300
And why can't the gay characters have that in the thing?

1244
01:02:09.360 --> 01:02:12.539
And why can't Yanto die heroically, you know, trying to do

1245
01:02:12.539 --> 01:02:12.719
something.

1246
01:02:14.159 --> 01:02:17.519
Also, quite frankly, is the 1st time their relationship's ever

1247
01:02:17.519 --> 01:02:18.239
been taken seriously.

1248
01:02:18.300 --> 01:02:19.079
Yeah.

1249
01:02:19.139 --> 01:02:19.860
Yeah.

1250
01:02:19.920 --> 01:02:21.719
Yeah, no, it becomes a proper thing.

1251
01:02:21.780 --> 01:02:24.719
And in fact, that episode, you know, we'll talk about it in a few

1252
01:02:24.719 --> 01:02:30.780
weeks time, but the, the, you know, Gwen's reaction, the, the, all

1253
01:02:30.780 --> 01:02:35.579
the bodies in that room in Thames house and and Yanto's there.

1254
01:02:35.639 --> 01:02:37.920
Like it's it's really good.

1255
01:02:37.980 --> 01:02:39.480
Like, I think it's properly good.

1256
01:02:39.480 --> 01:02:44.159
And, and, like, you know, it's a TV show and whatever.

1257
01:02:44.219 --> 01:02:47.699
But like being affected by a TV show is one of the reasons that

1258
01:02:47.699 --> 01:02:48.239
you watch it.

1259
01:02:48.300 --> 01:02:51.480
I mean, one of the reasons that this is good, is that it does

1260
01:02:51.480 --> 01:02:56.039
manage to do that. over and over again as well, in all sorts of

1261
01:02:56.039 --> 01:02:58.139
different ways and different contexts, all the stuff about

1262
01:02:58.139 --> 01:02:58.800
children.

1263
01:02:58.860 --> 01:03:02.460
Like, you know, the people who have joined or are going to be

1264
01:03:02.460 --> 01:03:05.039
joining us on these podcasts who have children.

1265
01:03:05.099 --> 01:03:08.519
Like talking to them about what the experience of watching these

1266
01:03:08.519 --> 01:03:13.199
is like when, you know, you've looked after children or cared for

1267
01:03:13.199 --> 01:03:13.800
them or whatever.

1268
01:03:13.800 --> 01:03:15.300
We do offer counselling.

1269
01:03:15.360 --> 01:03:17.400
Yeah, yeah, we do.

1270
01:03:17.400 --> 01:03:18.360
I'm very sympathetic.

1271
01:03:18.420 --> 01:03:21.840
Yeah, if you've been affected by issues raised in this podcast.

1272
01:03:22.739 --> 01:03:24.119
Yeah.

1273
01:03:24.179 --> 01:03:25.860
Anyway, that's all.

1274
01:03:25.860 --> 01:03:28.019
Yeah, yeah.

1275
01:03:28.079 --> 01:03:34.440
Anyway, maybe that's a tag. to be funny about, like, and not feel

1276
01:03:34.440 --> 01:03:36.179
guilty about something so dark.

1277
01:03:36.719 --> 01:03:40.380
Yeah, but the show doesn't care about being funny about it. you

1278
01:03:40.380 --> 01:03:40.860
know what I mean?

1279
01:03:40.920 --> 01:03:42.239
It's Russell.

1280
01:03:42.300 --> 01:03:45.599
Russell's funny about things that are funny and anything that's

1281
01:03:45.599 --> 01:03:48.539
you know, that is going to be blackly funny is just black.

1282
01:03:48.599 --> 01:03:49.920
It doesn't.

1283
01:03:49.980 --> 01:03:51.539
He doesn't go there.

1284
01:03:51.599 --> 01:03:53.699
He's just like, no, no, I'm just going to let you sit in your

1285
01:03:53.699 --> 01:03:54.179
discomfort.

1286
01:03:54.239 --> 01:03:55.500
Because more footwheel.

1287
01:03:55.559 --> 01:03:57.420
Wait, like he'll always crack wise, I think.

1288
01:03:57.480 --> 01:03:58.440
Yes.

1289
01:03:58.440 --> 01:04:03.360
But Russell, yeah, he sort of drops it a bit.

1290
01:04:03.420 --> 01:04:06.599
Like the, like, I mean, it is satire, isn't it?

1291
01:04:06.659 --> 01:04:09.599
Like these these satire and particularly that just sort of

1292
01:04:09.599 --> 01:04:12.539
exaggerated stuff like with Denise at the end and stuff, but it's

1293
01:04:12.539 --> 01:04:13.739
only barely satire.

1294
01:04:13.800 --> 01:04:19.920
I mean, yeah, I, no, I, I'm just thinking about how in 2009, when

1295
01:04:19.920 --> 01:04:24.719
this came out, it was, everything was, it was paedophile

1296
01:04:24.719 --> 01:04:25.199
everything.

1297
01:04:25.260 --> 01:04:29.039
Like, and there was that huge scandal with brass eye, you know

1298
01:04:29.039 --> 01:04:31.679
making jokes about paedophilia and you couldn't really talk about

1299
01:04:31.679 --> 01:04:35.340
it and it was, but it was on every, the front of every newspaper

1300
01:04:35.340 --> 01:04:39.179
and people had to go and knock on doors because when they were 19

1301
01:04:39.179 --> 01:04:41.039
they had sex with a 17 year old.

1302
01:04:41.159 --> 01:04:44.579
And so now that's their job, every time they move is that they're

1303
01:04:44.579 --> 01:04:45.539
a sexual predator.

1304
01:04:45.599 --> 01:04:48.360
So it was like a huge big thing that was going on.

1305
01:04:48.420 --> 01:04:52.500
So it was, on some level, it does feel like, you know, look, this

1306
01:04:52.500 --> 01:04:54.840
is what you think of a paedophile.

1307
01:04:54.900 --> 01:04:56.880
Like it's a monster that's spewed.

1308
01:04:56.880 --> 01:04:59.219
Goop into a room.

1309
01:04:59.579 --> 01:05:05.340
But I'm also thinking just about how England does have...

1310
01:05:05.400 --> 01:05:08.460
I mean, like all of our countries who, but England, in particular

1311
01:05:08.460 --> 01:05:12.179
has these sort of underclass that is just kind of that sales

1312
01:05:12.179 --> 01:05:16.500
beneath, you know, like that doesn't get assistance of people who

1313
01:05:16.500 --> 01:05:18.179
live on the estate, you know, the people.

1314
01:05:18.239 --> 01:05:19.079
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1315
01:05:19.139 --> 01:05:21.000
And that's historical.

1316
01:05:21.059 --> 01:05:23.460
Like that's ever since they were plans ever since they were

1317
01:05:23.460 --> 01:05:24.659
working the land.

1318
01:05:24.719 --> 01:05:27.360
There have always been, England has always had a class of people

1319
01:05:27.360 --> 01:05:28.440
that were disposable.

1320
01:05:28.500 --> 01:05:34.380
And, but now we feel like we're morally superior and we wouldn't

1321
01:05:34.380 --> 01:05:37.800
do that, but this show is basically going... you know what I

1322
01:05:37.800 --> 01:05:37.980
mean?

1323
01:05:38.039 --> 01:05:40.739
It's not just that we would do it if aliens come along, but we're

1324
01:05:40.739 --> 01:05:41.340
doing it already.

1325
01:05:41.400 --> 01:05:42.539
All the time.

1326
01:05:42.599 --> 01:05:46.079
Yeah, and the fact that you have that mention of the league tables

1327
01:05:46.079 --> 01:05:52.139
which is so brutal, might be the best line of the thing. you know

1328
01:05:52.139 --> 01:05:55.619
what are the school league tables for law then, you know, so

1329
01:05:55.619 --> 01:05:55.920
good.

1330
01:05:56.880 --> 01:05:58.500
So great.

1331
01:05:58.559 --> 01:05:59.639
It's so good.

1332
01:05:59.699 --> 01:06:00.900
Just, um...