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NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-03 at 08:45:21

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to 500 Year Diary.

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The only Doctor Who podcast whose hosts are all ranking captains

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of the Innuendo Squad.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Hannah.

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I'm James, and I'm feet.

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It's the 4th of June, 2005.

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It's been a mere 6 weeks since the Passimir Day Slovene family

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exploded in 10 Downing Street, and tonight, 7.680000 people will

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tune in for the 2nd coming of its last surviving member, Blondfell

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Foch Passimir Day Slovene.

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Also known as Lord Mayor of Cardiff, Councillor Margaret Blaine.

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But how will she get on without her large and pungent extended

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family?

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Let's find out as we discuss Boomtown.

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So, we're here tonight to talk about the second appearance in

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Doctor Who of the Slovene, in the form of Margaret Blaine, played

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by Annette Badland.

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I want to start, though, by perhaps going around the table and

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talking about how we felt about the Saline's 1st appearance on

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Doctor Who.

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And so I'm going to start with P.

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Yeah, they were the 1st instance of me and what was I?

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early 30s being a little bit like, oh, okay, this is going in a

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direction.

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I'm not so, no, the farting.

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Actually, just the farting.

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Everything else was fine.

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Yeah, so I wasn't sure whether I was crazy about the Celine or not

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whether this is it going to be too silly for proper doctor?

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Because I'd loved the 1st few episodes so much.

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So, yeah, my I was a little bit reticent in my enjoyment of the

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Slovene, I'll say.

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I was 11, so it was quite much more on board.

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Yeah, I remember that of a shock.

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Oh, my God, like it's a 2 parter.

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I didn't know that was going to be a thing.

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And really, really enjoyed them.

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They were really kind of the episodes that I think were kind of

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converting me into a fan.

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I was 24, so I was really on board with it.

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I am still a child.

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I have to say, I have said, and I think it says on the flights or

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entirety website that aliens of London and World War 3 is my

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favourite Doctor Who story.

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That's probably not true, actually, strictly speaking, but I did

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like it a lot.

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I did experience a sort of twinge of awkwardness like Pete about

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the farting and it perhaps wasn't the farting in itself, but that

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it didn't seem to be being done very well.

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And we'll talk a little bit about that, I think.

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But, of course, that, too, part is crazy, isn't it?

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There's nothing like it ever before.

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It's an alien invasion, but we get to see it on television.

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You've got people that you know as political reporters who've got

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Andrew Marr involved, you know, like all of this stuff.

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It's really very different from anything we've ever seen.

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Even as an 11 year old.

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I did not know of Andrew Moore because I was not watching news at

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10. surprising.

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But like we'd not long had the general election in the UK.

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So and that was the 1st time I was a bit more aware of what

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politicians and stuff were and was used to my parents constantly

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having the news on and seeing images of number 10.

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So I got what that was.

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And the massive weapons of destruction line was a real, they did

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that.

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They literally, that's, that is the headlines rephrased very

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slightly.

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And during an, and it was during an election campaign too.

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And the BBC Let Russell T. Davis get away with that then.

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It really is extraordinarily political.

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I mean, the whole sort of farting aliens things, you know, make it

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kind of a grotesque caricature.

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So you have these fat monsters that want to consume the world for

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fuel, uh, and then all of the kind of terrorism and the, you know

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the lies that were told to get into the Iraq war, and all of that

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stuff's being addressed in a story where Russell pretty much

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starts by killing Tony Blair and putting him in a cupboard.

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And, you know, kind of starting an annual tradition of killing the

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president or the prime minister of the UK, which does happen in

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each one of his 4 seasons.

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So that kind of level of specificity.

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I mean, we'd seen it maybe in curse of Paladon and maybe in

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Monster of Paladon, but they were kind of cartoons in a way.

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This was a little bit more kind of angrily satirical, I think.

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How do you feel that the Slovenes looked, though, on television?

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The cuts between the CGI and the and the costumes were so really

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really noticeable 1st time around.

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But this time, I mean, is there much CGI this time or is it much

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more physical for Boomtown?

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They don't use the models, the full length models.

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They do whatever CGI they need to do to get Margaret to take the

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skin suit off when she's in the toilet?

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Yeah, but they don't, we don't use them to run or anything like

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that.

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So we are just using the suits.

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And I mean, the design is it's so distinctive and original.

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I think it's a really good design. these baby faces and the fact

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that they're giggling while they do their, while they do their

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evil deeds sometimes.

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It's an attempt to do something as distinctive as the Zygons and

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they're just that they've got they've got a particular vibe

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they're going for.

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I liked even no details like the blinking is vertical.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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With a clicking sound.

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But I mean, they have all of the kind of physical characteristics

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of a fat person as well.

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Do you know what I mean?

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They have paunches and stuff.

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And that's bit of a damn from Mr. Davis this year, isn't it?

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It feels very like mid-naughters in general as well of all these

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reality shows and stuff we'd get.

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It was just like perfectly acceptable to say, yeah, fat people are

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terrible.

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There's one kind of line that I think here is in retrospect a

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little bit awful about Trisha Delaney later on in Boomtown.

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And it is clearly a thing.

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Russell's a large man, like a tall man who has clearly kind of

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struggled with his weight for his entire life and he's a gay man

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as well.

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And so there is some kind.

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I don't know.

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I always read it at some level of sort of self-loathing.

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Yeah, I'm, and it's that thing of, like you're saying, Hannah, in

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the naughties, there was that kind of, let's do it all, but do it

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ironically, or, you know, which leads to Little Britain doing

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blackface, which leads to, but, but, oh, we're doing it to show

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how, how awful it is, and it's likely still doing it.

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But also Russell dives on that.

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He dives on being gay.

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And also, I think there's a lot about class in this.

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There's a lot about his word.

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I think I remember, I can't find the quote, but I think I remember

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talking about his working-class background and how the way you

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feel about the people who haven't made the leap to international

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superstardom like he has and whether he should feel guilty about

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that or whether, you know, and the way that Rose talks later about

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you know, just dawn to sit around eating chips or do I want to go

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and save the universe?

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It's like, that's, you know, you judging everyone who is still

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working in a shop and eating chips.

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But he knows that and he thinks, well, that's my territory, so I'm

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going to go for it, I guess.

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You could actually extend that to.

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You know, there's that whole sort of mythos around Russell's

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version of the show, which is the doctor makes people's lives

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better.

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He shows them how to be better people.

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That's, in and of itself, could be read as classes.

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Because he, like, you know, like they tend, a lot of them tend to

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be like working-class people or people who don't have an education

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not Martha.

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And so is that actually, yeah, could that be read that way?

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don't know.

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Yeah, because Martha's the exception, really, isn't she?

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Yeah, Martha's him doing the opposite of what he normally does, you

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know.

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But yeah, and the, um, the 1st time in, in this series one that

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something really clanged with me was, was with, um, the moment, uh

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at the end of the long game after they ditch Adam, uh, and there's

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that lineup, I only take the best.

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And I was like, whoa, that's, I can't, I just can't imagine Dr. Dr

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who doesn't say that?

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And that was the strangest thing to just feel out of place in

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Doctor Who for me.

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When everything else had done this year.

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They were doing loads of new stuff.

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That was the one moment that I remember it really clanging with me

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that year.

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I mean, Tagan is in the show for like 3 years.

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I mean, you know.

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Don't tell Janet.

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It's something I've noticed increasingly like, you know, to the

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present, in sort of, choo-choo's time, it feels.

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And it does increasingly like gnaws at me a bit from when I kind

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of go back and watch the classic series where it feels like the

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whole idea is that you're a kid and the doctor can turn up and you

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can go and anyone who gets the, it's pure look and chance rather

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than, oh, no, I'm going to be picky and like, maybe all the child

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who doesn't get to go with the doctor feels like the of road

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you're kind of putting that idea down for me, which I don't like.

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I mean, it's not class, is it, that makes the distinction between

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who is acceptable and isn't acceptable in Adam's case.

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Adam is treacherous and he's out for himself.

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And so that's ultimately why he gets rejected, I think.

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And one of the fun things about Boomtown. is it actually shines a

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light on Rose, who is really, and I think intentionally, not a

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very nice person.

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And her very last moment is wishing that she could have the same

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chance that Margaret has, to start again, to have a 2nd go at it

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because she has been so mean to Mickey and Mickey is having such a

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bad time.

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And so, so it can't quite be that.

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It can't be you need to be terrifically selfless to be allowed to

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travel with a doctor.

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It is an odd bum node, I think.

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I think he's deliberately saying in this one.

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You know, she's not Sarah Jane and he's not Harry.

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Because when I was little, I never liked the Harry Sullivan as an

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imbecile moment in Revenge of the Cybermen.

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I made that turn against the 4th doctor a bit.

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I did roll my eyes when the Ricky bit kicked in at the start of

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this again. rewatching it because I'd sort of forgotten how kind

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of a bit annoying I found it, that the doctor would be that petty

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and sort of snide towards this lad who's just had his life

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destroyed by the doctor coming and stealing his girlfriend.

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I feel a lot of sympathy for Mickey in the story when he realised

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actually, what he what he'd been through in the year when Rose

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disappeared and now that's it.

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She started off again.

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And 6 months later, and it feels like he's had therefore 6 months

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of sitting and thinking about this.

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It's that bit where as well, he, he tells, you made me feel like I

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was nothing.

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Yeah.

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And therefore, you've gone off with a, with a guy who, like, just

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constantly berates, like, your boyfriend, um, we were nice, we

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were happy.

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I'm really more conscious now watching it of how young they are. of

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being like 1920 and it's, you know, from both of them.

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It's probably like their 1st proper relationship.

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And we see them in rows and they're very sweet together and

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stuff.

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It feels like you can see the hurt and but then also like, as much

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you want to say, like, yeah, Rose is terrible.

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Yeah, she is also a sort of young, naive teenager in many ways and

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she kind of really hoping that him telling her this is something

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that she takes on board.

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Yeah, I, I, like, I think that the, that the episode is very, very

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definitely about that, like the big character thing.

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You know, we start with a sort of hijinx, don't we?

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The heist, you know, the capturing Margaret thing, which is about

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the 1st 3rd of it.

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And it's so funny.

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It's all this fun, light, playful music.

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Yeah, yeah.

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That's the funniest that I think Doctor Who's been, but also just

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knowingly, like the jokes about where the journalist is listing

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the ways all the people got killed.

242
00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:52.740
And Margaret's excuses get more and more rosterous down to the

243
00:12:52.740 --> 00:12:54.179
point of, I didn't see him coming, you know.

244
00:12:54.240 --> 00:12:56.639
She literally killed at least 2 of them.

245
00:12:56.700 --> 00:12:58.200
It's on record that shit.

246
00:12:58.259 --> 00:13:00.659
It's on an icy patch.

247
00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:02.940
It was a very icy patch.

248
00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:04.740
So great.

249
00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:09.480
It's literally on record that she personally killed 2 of them in

250
00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:12.960
accidents and still nobody has stopped this project. and and the

251
00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:16.019
wonderful uh delivery of it all about, you know, Westminster

252
00:13:16.019 --> 00:13:18.539
wouldn't notice if we fell off the cliff, which is, again, only

253
00:13:18.539 --> 00:13:21.960
someone from Wales can get away with writing an English person

254
00:13:21.960 --> 00:13:26.519
saying that and it also working as a joke at the expense of the

255
00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:28.559
English rather than the Welsh. just all hangs together so well.

256
00:13:28.620 --> 00:13:29.759
It is really fun.

257
00:13:29.820 --> 00:13:32.820
My favourite bit is where the doctor says to Margaret's personal

258
00:13:32.820 --> 00:13:33.419
assistant.

259
00:13:33.480 --> 00:13:35.460
She's climbing out the window, isn't she?

260
00:13:35.519 --> 00:13:36.779
And he goes, yes.

261
00:13:37.320 --> 00:13:40.080
I just think is absolutely tremendous.

262
00:13:40.139 --> 00:13:44.340
So all of that sort of stuff is really terribly fun.

263
00:13:44.399 --> 00:13:47.820
And you notice that we don't really have that much of the Sabine

264
00:13:47.820 --> 00:13:48.600
costume at all.

265
00:13:48.659 --> 00:13:54.120
So we have the Slovene costume appears in the bathroom.

266
00:13:54.240 --> 00:13:55.559
Yep.

267
00:13:55.620 --> 00:13:57.419
We at last gets his dream.

268
00:13:57.480 --> 00:14:00.240
It's not it's not tooting back.

269
00:14:00.299 --> 00:14:05.340
But it is, but it's the next place thing and we finally get a, and

270
00:14:05.340 --> 00:14:06.059
I have been researching.

271
00:14:06.120 --> 00:14:07.559
I've been and checked on Tardiswiki.

272
00:14:07.620 --> 00:14:09.779
This is the 1st use of a toilet in Doctor Who on TV.

273
00:14:10.259 --> 00:14:13.500
And it's definitely the 1st monster on a toilet.

274
00:14:13.620 --> 00:14:14.879
And instead of it being terrifying.

275
00:14:14.940 --> 00:14:18.779
It becomes a moment with sympathetic music and she starts

276
00:14:18.779 --> 00:14:19.620
questioning herself.

277
00:14:19.679 --> 00:14:21.299
It's really good.

278
00:14:21.360 --> 00:14:22.440
She's delightful.

279
00:14:22.500 --> 00:14:27.179
Like the young woman who plays, Kathy is just sort of sweet and

280
00:14:27.179 --> 00:14:30.059
beautiful and instantly appealing, I think.

281
00:14:30.539 --> 00:14:33.179
It's a really small cast, isn't it?

282
00:14:33.240 --> 00:14:35.879
I was going to start, like, I was thinking, there are real

283
00:14:35.879 --> 00:14:37.320
parallels between this and edge of destruction.

284
00:14:37.379 --> 00:14:40.860
Not many, but some.

285
00:14:40.919 --> 00:14:43.200
It's written as a last minute replacement.

286
00:14:43.259 --> 00:14:45.600
It is a case of we can only do it with stuff we've got in the

287
00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:45.960
cupboard.

288
00:14:46.019 --> 00:14:48.480
Right, knock us up a model nuclear power station.

289
00:14:48.539 --> 00:14:50.940
That's basically the only new prop that it got.

290
00:14:51.000 --> 00:14:55.860
And we film it all around Cardiff. which is, you know, as good as

291
00:14:55.860 --> 00:14:57.120
filming in the studio.

292
00:14:57.179 --> 00:15:02.460
And yeah, there's a character piece for these 4 characters

293
00:15:02.460 --> 00:15:05.460
particularly that are getting to know a new crew, but the couple

294
00:15:05.460 --> 00:15:08.940
of new characters that we do get, like the journalist, and the guy

295
00:15:08.940 --> 00:15:10.860
who he was pro-to-yanto, wasn't I?

296
00:15:10.919 --> 00:15:12.179
I think he was offered the role of Yanto.

297
00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:12.659
Oh, okay.

298
00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:14.159
So I had other commitments.

299
00:15:14.220 --> 00:15:15.120
I can see that.

300
00:15:15.179 --> 00:15:17.279
But he couldn't do it.

301
00:15:17.340 --> 00:15:20.100
And but yeah, you could easily see how that would fit into place

302
00:15:20.100 --> 00:15:20.460
wouldn't you?

303
00:15:20.580 --> 00:15:22.740
The undertaker from Rembrandts.

304
00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:24.360
Oh, our 1st returning actor.

305
00:15:24.419 --> 00:15:25.080
Yes.

306
00:15:25.139 --> 00:15:26.879
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

307
00:15:26.940 --> 00:15:28.139
And he's terrific.

308
00:15:28.200 --> 00:15:29.220
That opening scene.

309
00:15:29.279 --> 00:15:30.539
And this is another thing.

310
00:15:30.600 --> 00:15:33.960
One of the problems, I think, with the Sabine's 1st appearance is

311
00:15:33.960 --> 00:15:40.860
that they are shot in the 1st recording block of the new series.

312
00:15:40.919 --> 00:15:44.879
And I think that there's a scene in the office where there are a

313
00:15:44.879 --> 00:15:49.860
few people in the costumes who are kind of moving around an office

314
00:15:49.860 --> 00:15:50.879
looking for rose.

315
00:15:50.940 --> 00:15:53.340
I think Rose and Harriet might be hiding behind the curtains or

316
00:15:53.340 --> 00:15:53.580
something.

317
00:15:53.639 --> 00:15:57.600
It's in World War 3 and it's shot maybe on the 1st day.

318
00:15:57.659 --> 00:16:01.740
It's shot really, really early and it's terrible.

319
00:16:01.799 --> 00:16:05.100
Like, it really is absolutely appalling.

320
00:16:05.159 --> 00:16:09.659
And, you know, Keith Bow, who shoots the 1st episode, who shoots

321
00:16:09.659 --> 00:16:13.860
Rose and then shoots those 2, and then Eccleston has a massive

322
00:16:13.860 --> 00:16:16.200
fight with him and he never works on the show again.

323
00:16:16.259 --> 00:16:20.399
And there are problems with his direction. obviously, and then

324
00:16:20.399 --> 00:16:22.740
problems with what's going on on the set.

325
00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:25.259
But that is so badly done.

326
00:16:25.379 --> 00:16:29.580
And it was such a bad idea because we weren't in a TV landscape

327
00:16:29.580 --> 00:16:33.840
where they were shooting lots of shows where people were dressed

328
00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:35.639
up as giant rubber monsters.

329
00:16:35.700 --> 00:16:38.519
You know, we'd kind of lost the knack of it.

330
00:16:38.580 --> 00:16:40.320
No one had been doing it for ages.

331
00:16:40.379 --> 00:16:42.360
And so it's bad.

332
00:16:42.419 --> 00:16:47.279
Whereas here we have Joe Hearn, and Johearn shoots kind of the

333
00:16:47.279 --> 00:16:51.659
back end, I think, of series one and never works on the show

334
00:16:51.659 --> 00:16:52.139
again.

335
00:16:52.200 --> 00:16:54.779
I think that opening scene is incredible.

336
00:16:54.840 --> 00:16:58.740
So we're outside, we just see Cleaver through the door.

337
00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:02.279
We don't see who he's talking to, the camera's static and it's

338
00:17:02.279 --> 00:17:05.700
sort of well and truly outside and we only go in later on one of

339
00:17:05.700 --> 00:17:09.180
her lines so that we can see that it's her.

340
00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:12.720
But all the way through, this is directed just so much better.

341
00:17:12.779 --> 00:17:16.980
We don't make the costume, Slovine, do very much.

342
00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:21.359
And in a way, the farting noises and stuff are actually slightly

343
00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:22.380
worse, I think.

344
00:17:22.440 --> 00:17:26.220
Like, certainly the one where Kathy hears Margaret in the toilet

345
00:17:26.220 --> 00:17:29.160
and goes, Wow, it sounds like we only got here.

346
00:17:29.220 --> 00:17:31.380
We got here just in time. time.

347
00:17:31.799 --> 00:17:34.079
Like, that's really gross.

348
00:17:34.140 --> 00:17:36.599
That's much worse than anything that we heard in Aliens of

349
00:17:36.599 --> 00:17:36.900
London.

350
00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:39.240
But somehow they work.

351
00:17:39.299 --> 00:17:43.859
Like all of that sedine stuff is less kind of ridiculous and more

352
00:17:43.859 --> 00:17:47.039
just kind of a little bit more grounded, I think.

353
00:17:47.099 --> 00:17:51.359
Yeah, and she's presaging the dilemma. doctor's going to have

354
00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:54.420
later and it's like, it could just be about, oh, it's not just all

355
00:17:54.420 --> 00:17:57.839
we're doing, a silly toilet noise. which there was quite a bit of

356
00:17:57.839 --> 00:17:58.799
in the 1st story.

357
00:17:58.859 --> 00:18:02.460
In this one, it's much more, isn't this a weird backdrop for what

358
00:18:02.460 --> 00:18:07.500
is actually a really pointed and emotional conversation between a

359
00:18:07.500 --> 00:18:10.079
monster that's deciding not to eat someone because she's with

360
00:18:10.079 --> 00:18:10.680
child.

361
00:18:10.740 --> 00:18:14.819
Again, her speech patterns are so, uh, well, the kind of classic

362
00:18:14.819 --> 00:18:15.779
Doctor Whoey, aren't they?

363
00:18:15.839 --> 00:18:16.920
Aliens are posh.

364
00:18:16.980 --> 00:18:18.299
Yes, yeah.

365
00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:18.900
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

366
00:18:32.579 --> 00:18:36.599
This is our first visit to Cardiff, proper, modern Cardiff 20.

367
00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:37.799
It's the naughties.

368
00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:40.799
Welcome to Cardiff, and it looks that the Roald Dahl Platts looks

369
00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:43.440
like it had just been built as the perfect set for landing at

370
00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:47.160
TARDIS on with that giant the giant monolith of water behind it.

371
00:18:47.220 --> 00:18:51.539
God, there was just so much money in the like the turn of the

372
00:18:51.539 --> 00:18:52.079
millennium.

373
00:18:52.140 --> 00:18:53.339
UKU.

374
00:18:53.400 --> 00:18:57.180
Yeah. than being spent on all these things pre- 2008.

375
00:18:57.359 --> 00:18:59.640
They would, yeah, we'll whack up the parliament.

376
00:18:59.700 --> 00:19:01.140
Well, whack up a big convention centre.

377
00:19:01.200 --> 00:19:02.880
And it's great.

378
00:19:02.940 --> 00:19:06.299
The Cardiff authorities completely let them take it all over for

379
00:19:06.299 --> 00:19:09.359
this reboot of this show that could have been a complete flop at

380
00:19:09.359 --> 00:19:11.759
the time that they're taking the bookings, but they completely

381
00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:12.720
accommodate them all.

382
00:19:12.779 --> 00:19:16.200
And the way that that square is shod is really useful as well.

383
00:19:16.259 --> 00:19:19.980
Like you get the TARDIS parked, you know, straight in front. of

384
00:19:19.980 --> 00:19:22.500
that big water feature thing.

385
00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:28.079
And so there's a lot of kind of, like the shots are just sort of

386
00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:31.440
very carefully constructed so that you can see the millennium

387
00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:33.059
centre opposite and all of that.

388
00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:37.740
You get a great big panning shot across at the start so that it's

389
00:19:37.740 --> 00:19:39.000
like, get a look at all this.

390
00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:39.779
Yeah.

391
00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:42.059
It's really wonderful, isn't it?

392
00:19:42.119 --> 00:19:46.920
And clearly, like they want, you know, it's BBC Wales and they

393
00:19:46.920 --> 00:19:49.200
want it in some ways to be Welsh.

394
00:19:49.259 --> 00:19:53.700
And eventually, I think they offload the need to be Welsh onto

395
00:19:53.700 --> 00:19:56.819
Torchwood, so it can be as Welsh as it wants and we don't have to

396
00:19:56.819 --> 00:19:57.900
go to Wales every year.

397
00:19:58.140 --> 00:20:00.240
We never get a Welsh companion.

398
00:20:00.299 --> 00:20:02.460
No, no, that's true.

399
00:20:02.519 --> 00:20:02.940
That's true.

400
00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:06.420
But we get some Welsh voices and we'd get sort of plenty of Welsh

401
00:20:06.420 --> 00:20:07.140
actors and stuff.

402
00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:10.319
But as a way of showcasing whales and as a way, perhaps, of

403
00:20:10.319 --> 00:20:13.980
thanking whales for, you know, all of the roads that we close down

404
00:20:13.980 --> 00:20:18.059
and various inconveniences that are gorgeous during the making of

405
00:20:18.059 --> 00:20:20.160
this show, I think it's really good.

406
00:20:20.220 --> 00:20:21.420
And it looks great.

407
00:20:21.480 --> 00:20:25.019
Like the place, you know, the 2 places where we go out to dinner.

408
00:20:25.079 --> 00:20:27.720
All of that looks really, really nice, I think.

409
00:20:27.779 --> 00:20:34.680
It feels very 2005 decor in that restaurant, I've noticed, all the

410
00:20:34.680 --> 00:20:36.900
white and red, the menu design.

411
00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:40.019
We're missing any ashtrays on the table.

412
00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:42.779
So clearly they're ahead of the smoking gun.

413
00:20:42.779 --> 00:20:44.339
Because now I'm smoking restaurant.

414
00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:45.660
No one's smoking around by the bars.

415
00:20:47.160 --> 00:20:52.079
Not quite entirely accurate, but expected for Doctor Who.

416
00:20:52.140 --> 00:20:56.039
Yeah, because they don't want the DVD to get a PG certificate when

417
00:20:56.039 --> 00:20:56.460
it comes out.

418
00:20:56.940 --> 00:20:58.500
That's it.

419
00:20:58.559 --> 00:20:59.099
Yeah, nice.

420
00:20:59.099 --> 00:21:00.779
And yet they got a 12.

421
00:21:01.019 --> 00:21:01.619
Did it?

422
00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:02.640
Did he get a 12 anyway?

423
00:21:02.700 --> 00:21:03.960
Oh, just because of the peril.

424
00:21:04.019 --> 00:21:06.359
So yeah, because certainly kind of like some of them were 12.

425
00:21:06.779 --> 00:21:11.460
I think that one of the series one ones, the one with Dalek on it

426
00:21:11.460 --> 00:21:14.579
got a higher rating because of the doctor's behaviour, I think.

427
00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:16.319
And a lot of people get killed, I guess.

428
00:21:16.440 --> 00:21:18.539
But I think it's mostly the doctor's behaviour.

429
00:21:18.660 --> 00:21:20.640
I thought it was...

430
00:21:20.700 --> 00:21:21.660
Really?

431
00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:22.859
Two phallic.

432
00:21:24.180 --> 00:21:26.099
Who's Phallus?

433
00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:27.420
Yeah, yeah, no one I know.

434
00:21:31.740 --> 00:21:35.940
The other thing about this that I think is really good, and it is

435
00:21:35.940 --> 00:21:41.819
a thing that just happens because it's a late replacement for

436
00:21:41.819 --> 00:21:47.039
other things that fall through, is that this isn't, in any sense

437
00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:52.019
like a four-part Doctor Who story that squeezed into 45 minutes

438
00:21:52.019 --> 00:21:56.099
and it is just a 45 minute episode of television.

439
00:21:56.160 --> 00:22:00.299
And it's the sort of thing that ever since it's been on, I kind of

440
00:22:00.299 --> 00:22:06.059
wish that they would do it more often, like that we could just

441
00:22:06.059 --> 00:22:10.500
take a breather and see what it's like for these people.

442
00:22:10.680 --> 00:22:14.460
Yeah, and get to know that you get to know your characters.

443
00:22:14.519 --> 00:22:18.960
We get to know Margaret Blonde so much better than almost any

444
00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:22.559
character that we get now in a 45 minute episode because it's all

445
00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:24.420
being told a double speed or more.

446
00:22:24.480 --> 00:22:26.700
Hmm, it's a character piece.

447
00:22:26.819 --> 00:22:29.880
This went out the week of my 12th birthday.

448
00:22:29.940 --> 00:22:33.059
And I was having a sleepover with friends.

449
00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:37.319
So we taped it with the intention then, oh, we'll watch it once

450
00:22:37.319 --> 00:22:38.099
it's gone dark.

451
00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:41.700
Having had several weeks of quite scary Doctor Who, we thought

452
00:22:41.700 --> 00:22:43.259
that'd be a fun thing to do.

453
00:22:43.259 --> 00:22:48.240
And obviously, we were expecting excitement, fun, action, scared

454
00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:51.359
Miss Brendan. didn't get that. disappointing.

455
00:22:51.420 --> 00:22:54.599
So it had never really been that high in my measure since that

456
00:22:54.599 --> 00:22:58.079
kind of memory had stuck with me because it wasn't what I was

457
00:22:58.079 --> 00:22:58.619
expecting.

458
00:22:58.680 --> 00:23:03.599
But watching it now, I think, actually, this works so well within

459
00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:04.200
the season.

460
00:23:04.259 --> 00:23:10.259
It feels right to have a pause and a breather of going, you know

461
00:23:10.259 --> 00:23:14.339
we've talked about roads delving into who roads really is a bit

462
00:23:14.339 --> 00:23:14.519
more.

463
00:23:14.579 --> 00:23:19.259
But then also like the doctor, and I think probably more so

464
00:23:19.259 --> 00:23:23.759
important for like 2005 when, yeah, there's a lot of viewers who

465
00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:26.519
don't know this character at all, don't really know what he's

466
00:23:26.519 --> 00:23:26.700
like.

467
00:23:26.700 --> 00:23:31.200
And all the things we've been seeing, like how he is or are the

468
00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:35.640
exceptions to the rule, that emphasis about, you know, him

469
00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:38.700
pointing out that you don't stick around to see the consequences

470
00:23:38.700 --> 00:23:44.400
um, and that nice little exchange between him and Margaret about

471
00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:47.400
you let one go and that's how you live with yourself.

472
00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:50.519
Only a killer would know that. wonderful.

473
00:23:50.759 --> 00:23:54.059
That's maybe the best line, isn't it?

474
00:23:54.119 --> 00:23:55.079
It's so good.

475
00:23:55.140 --> 00:23:58.319
And the way that it changes that scene, because that scene is

476
00:23:58.319 --> 00:23:59.099
really brilliant.

477
00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:04.079
And you think, well, the doctor knows about this because he's met

478
00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:07.859
evil people who are killers and he kind of understands them to

479
00:24:07.859 --> 00:24:08.279
some degree.

480
00:24:08.339 --> 00:24:11.339
And so you think that he's got the upper hand there and that he's

481
00:24:11.339 --> 00:24:16.740
kind of successfully psychologising her and that he's neutralising

482
00:24:16.740 --> 00:24:20.039
that little moment of self-approval.

483
00:24:20.099 --> 00:24:23.279
Margaret actually thinks, no, I'm not really that bad a person.

484
00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:26.940
Look, I didn't kill Kathy earlier this episode.

485
00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:29.759
And the doctor kind of just takes that away from her.

486
00:24:29.819 --> 00:24:33.359
But then she comes back and she just says the only reason.

487
00:24:33.960 --> 00:24:35.759
It's really cool.

488
00:24:35.819 --> 00:24:40.079
I mean, there's these magnificent like extreme close-ups that you

489
00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:42.839
don't really get in television much at that time then.

490
00:24:42.900 --> 00:24:44.579
Um, let alone now.

491
00:24:44.640 --> 00:24:45.599
We've got big TVs.

492
00:24:45.660 --> 00:24:50.220
We don't do extreme close-ups like you'd have in the 60s, but it's

493
00:24:50.220 --> 00:24:54.359
such a subtle like drop in Eccleston's facial expressions the

494
00:24:54.359 --> 00:24:58.559
moment she says that and he's like visibly quite uncomfortable.

495
00:24:58.619 --> 00:25:01.500
Like, you can tell he's been caught off guard.

496
00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:02.819
So superb from him there.

497
00:25:03.059 --> 00:25:06.299
And at this point, we know that about him too.

498
00:25:06.359 --> 00:25:10.799
I mean, the beginning of this episode has taken the tone that, you

499
00:25:10.799 --> 00:25:14.940
know, Sarah Jane adventures will eventually take with a great deal

500
00:25:14.940 --> 00:25:15.660
of success.

501
00:25:15.720 --> 00:25:21.299
But now to be reminded that the doctor is someone who is a killer

502
00:25:21.299 --> 00:25:23.460
and has admitted to that.

503
00:25:23.519 --> 00:25:27.720
And, you know, we've seen him blow people up and do all sorts of

504
00:25:27.720 --> 00:25:31.680
fun things for the, you know, 26 years of the classic series, but

505
00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:37.019
this, I think, you know, this series for the 1st time gives us a

506
00:25:37.019 --> 00:25:40.440
little bit more of the doctor's interiority, we get a little bit

507
00:25:40.440 --> 00:25:44.519
more about how he feels about things and seeing his reaction.

508
00:25:44.579 --> 00:25:47.279
That moment, remember the moment in the end of the world where

509
00:25:47.279 --> 00:25:52.380
Jabe holds his hand and he weeps for a 2nd and then he shakes it

510
00:25:52.380 --> 00:25:52.680
off.

511
00:25:52.680 --> 00:25:58.799
And, like, I can't imagine, you know, like, you can tell when the

512
00:25:58.799 --> 00:26:02.160
doctor thinks Eldrad's hot or when the doctor thinks Astrid's

513
00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:02.460
hot.

514
00:26:02.519 --> 00:26:05.099
You know, like occasionally you can tell what the doctor's

515
00:26:05.099 --> 00:26:05.519
feeling.

516
00:26:05.579 --> 00:26:07.859
But never quite like this.

517
00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:11.220
And so that, where you've got a great actor, like Christopher

518
00:26:11.220 --> 00:26:15.420
Eccleston, and there's nowhere to hide in those massive close

519
00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:15.420
ups.

520
00:26:15.480 --> 00:26:17.400
It is a pretty great moment.

521
00:26:17.460 --> 00:26:19.200
It's really well shot that, isn't it?

522
00:26:19.259 --> 00:26:22.140
Because you've got them opposite each other across the table for

523
00:26:22.140 --> 00:26:23.640
some comedy business as well.

524
00:26:23.700 --> 00:26:28.680
Like the dart and the puff of the puff of poison.

525
00:26:28.740 --> 00:26:30.119
Yeah, yeah.

526
00:26:30.180 --> 00:26:33.299
And again, that's really fun and cartoonish and really light.

527
00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:36.660
And that's the Russell thing where you go from that to the

528
00:26:36.660 --> 00:26:40.980
admission that your hero is as much of a killer as the person that

529
00:26:40.980 --> 00:26:41.819
he's sitting opposite.

530
00:26:41.880 --> 00:26:46.259
I kind of love the moment just before they get to dinner, where he

531
00:26:46.259 --> 00:26:48.059
gets the handcuffs off Jack.

532
00:26:48.119 --> 00:26:51.119
She's like, hmm, dinner and bondage works for me.

533
00:26:51.420 --> 00:26:53.700
Why does Jack have them?

534
00:26:53.759 --> 00:26:54.779
Where has he got them?

535
00:26:56.460 --> 00:26:58.259
I think we know.

536
00:26:58.259 --> 00:27:02.039
This is the 1st time we've mentioned him, because this is kind of

537
00:27:02.039 --> 00:27:03.059
Jack's 1st episode.

538
00:27:03.059 --> 00:27:05.099
As a companion.

539
00:27:05.160 --> 00:27:05.460
Is it?

540
00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:06.900
No, no, I'm getting them in the reward.

541
00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:08.940
Yeah, we met Jack the week before, didn't we?

542
00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:09.720
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

543
00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:12.779
So this is Jack's 1st episode the 1st episode that begins with

544
00:27:12.779 --> 00:27:15.059
Jack and the TARDIS on travels with them all.

545
00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:19.440
And I couldn't help thinking, imagine if season 19 was like this

546
00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:21.960
and they all kept high-fiving each other and doing innuendos all

547
00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:25.319
the time, so... about the bickering, but my God, I couldn't cope

548
00:27:25.319 --> 00:27:25.559
with that.

549
00:27:25.619 --> 00:27:28.619
The whole like into time and space.

550
00:27:28.680 --> 00:27:30.900
And you see ourselves.

551
00:27:30.900 --> 00:27:33.000
And I'm so unreaky sorry for that point.

552
00:27:33.059 --> 00:27:35.099
You are cheesy, guys. are cheesy.

553
00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:37.380
We're supposed to be Mickey in that scene, aren't we?

554
00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:38.339
But yeah, yeah.

555
00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:39.480
We're walking in them.

556
00:27:39.539 --> 00:27:42.180
Who are these smug wankers?

557
00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:45.420
It starts with Mickey getting off the train, doesn't it?

558
00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:46.259
Cardiff.

559
00:27:46.319 --> 00:27:47.099
We follow him.

560
00:27:47.160 --> 00:27:51.299
We aren't in the TARDIS and we don't watch them appear or anything

561
00:27:51.299 --> 00:27:51.960
like that.

562
00:27:52.019 --> 00:27:55.440
There, they're already doing whatever it is they do, and we follow

563
00:27:55.440 --> 00:27:58.859
Mickey over to meet them, and they are obnoxious.

564
00:27:58.920 --> 00:28:02.400
Like they are really quite obnoxious, I think.

565
00:28:02.460 --> 00:28:04.859
Jack doesn't have a great deal to do in this.

566
00:28:04.859 --> 00:28:09.180
And this line of, um, who are you captain of the innuendo squad

567
00:28:09.180 --> 00:28:12.839
does just sum up really what he ended up doing most of this

568
00:28:12.839 --> 00:28:13.500
episode.

569
00:28:14.279 --> 00:28:19.019
I think it's probably right that, you know, obviously didn't try

570
00:28:19.019 --> 00:28:22.680
and squeeze in something for Jap because it is so much more about

571
00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:28.619
the doctor and Rose and Mickey and leaving him to, you know, fiddle

572
00:28:28.619 --> 00:28:31.680
with things in the TARDIS is sort of the best way of keeping him

573
00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:32.039
out of the way.

574
00:28:32.099 --> 00:28:34.079
That makes him the Nissa, doesn't it?

575
00:28:34.200 --> 00:28:35.519
It does make him really, yeah.

576
00:28:35.940 --> 00:28:37.980
He's a tin dog.

577
00:28:38.819 --> 00:28:45.839
It also kind of shows starting the post-credits scenes with Mickey

578
00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:52.380
getting off the train. kind of shows how rose has changed over the

579
00:28:52.380 --> 00:28:53.099
course of this season.

580
00:28:53.160 --> 00:28:56.880
She is no longer the audience identification figure in a way.

581
00:28:56.940 --> 00:29:00.420
He has become the audience identification pickup because she has

582
00:29:00.420 --> 00:29:01.680
been changed so much by her travels.

583
00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:06.480
And, I mean, later on, like the following year, we'll get Jackie's

584
00:29:06.480 --> 00:29:10.740
take on how Rose has changed and how she's likely to change in the

585
00:29:10.740 --> 00:29:11.160
future.

586
00:29:11.220 --> 00:29:16.440
You know, the fear that Jackie expresses in Army of Ghosts that

587
00:29:16.440 --> 00:29:20.880
one day, there'll be Rose and she'll be on an asteroid in a space

588
00:29:20.880 --> 00:29:25.259
market or something and she won't be human anymore because she

589
00:29:25.259 --> 00:29:27.240
won't even remember her home.

590
00:29:27.299 --> 00:29:31.200
And you know, there is that as a possible thing.

591
00:29:31.259 --> 00:29:35.220
I mean, the big thing, and it becomes even bigger next year, is

592
00:29:35.220 --> 00:29:40.799
how kind of obnoxious the doctor and rose are together, and their

593
00:29:40.799 --> 00:29:42.059
arrogance and things.

594
00:29:42.119 --> 00:29:45.839
The bit, you know, where Queen Victoria takes them down a peg

595
00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:49.319
because she knows all along that they've been making fun of her.

596
00:29:49.319 --> 00:29:53.579
Like, it is a sort of funny thing to do, but I really appreciate

597
00:29:53.579 --> 00:29:58.559
making the leads in some sense unlikeable in some ways.

598
00:29:58.619 --> 00:30:01.680
And they're still charming and funny and fun and they're fun to be

599
00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:02.400
around flawed.

600
00:30:02.460 --> 00:30:06.240
Yeah, the banter is really fun, all that sort of, you know, buy me

601
00:30:06.240 --> 00:30:06.960
a drink first.

602
00:30:07.019 --> 00:30:09.420
You know, are you saying I'm not handsome?

603
00:30:09.480 --> 00:30:10.980
I like that's where they go.

604
00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:14.519
And that's a big deal in 2005 on TV to have an ostensibly straight

605
00:30:14.519 --> 00:30:17.279
character and an ostensively queer stroke gay stroke by whatever

606
00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:17.940
character.

607
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:19.799
However, Captain Jack is being...

608
00:30:19.799 --> 00:30:21.000
Stroke, stroke, character.

609
00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:21.960
Pinned down.

610
00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:25.920
Yeah, categorised is the word.

611
00:30:25.980 --> 00:30:29.400
However, he's been categorised.

612
00:30:29.460 --> 00:30:32.700
The idea that he can flirt with the doctor and the doctor can just

613
00:30:32.700 --> 00:30:34.019
have a laugh about it and flirt back with him.

614
00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:37.619
You don't see 2 male characters doing that much on TV, even then

615
00:30:37.619 --> 00:30:39.059
maybe it's coming into soaps a bit.

616
00:30:39.119 --> 00:30:43.019
But it's just so casual and lighthearted and breezed over, and

617
00:30:43.019 --> 00:30:44.700
it's actually quite a big deal, I think.

618
00:30:44.940 --> 00:30:49.859
We get our 1st I think it's our 1st Doctor Who of the of the new

619
00:30:49.859 --> 00:30:54.900
series from Naughtyanto in the reception desk when he says, tell

620
00:30:54.900 --> 00:30:56.940
her I'm the doctor. and nobody drops an anvil on it.

621
00:30:57.000 --> 00:30:58.619
There isn't a Murray Gold fan fair.

622
00:30:58.680 --> 00:31:00.119
It is actually just jump very casually.

623
00:31:00.180 --> 00:31:03.299
You, the viewer, can, ah, you said the thing, but the show doesn't

624
00:31:03.299 --> 00:31:06.299
go, he's just said the thing, which is what it will start doing in

625
00:31:06.299 --> 00:31:06.839
a couple of years time.

626
00:31:06.900 --> 00:31:10.559
Well, yeah, from the Christmas invasion, it just a few episodes

627
00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:11.400
time, actually.

628
00:31:12.900 --> 00:31:16.079
I'm a big fan of Dr. Watt actually.

629
00:31:28.740 --> 00:31:32.220
It was interesting, you mentioned about the arrogance, because we

630
00:31:32.220 --> 00:31:35.700
get the line about playing with so many lives, you might as well

631
00:31:35.700 --> 00:31:40.799
be a god, which feels like the 1st touch on where they're going to

632
00:31:40.799 --> 00:31:43.740
go later with tenants, doctor.

633
00:31:43.799 --> 00:31:45.059
Yeah.

634
00:31:45.119 --> 00:31:48.839
We always build it up too much to a point in the series because it

635
00:31:48.839 --> 00:31:49.920
does become where do you go?

636
00:31:49.980 --> 00:31:54.720
Whereas at this point it is just sort of a hint, like acting like

637
00:31:54.720 --> 00:31:55.500
it, not actually.

638
00:31:55.740 --> 00:31:59.460
I think it does eventually go too far in places and there are

639
00:31:59.460 --> 00:32:02.339
times when I just think that David Tennant's doctor is really

640
00:32:02.339 --> 00:32:03.660
roundly slappable.

641
00:32:05.940 --> 00:32:10.559
Mostly I'm on board and usually when I'm watching it, you know, I'm

642
00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:13.440
surprised by how much I enjoy his performance generally.

643
00:32:13.500 --> 00:32:17.160
And, you know, like I'm in record saying this is my favourite era

644
00:32:17.160 --> 00:32:21.059
of the show, but he is really often quite annoying.

645
00:32:21.119 --> 00:32:24.599
There's a flight through Entirety episode.

646
00:32:24.660 --> 00:32:28.440
I think it's our fear her episode, which is called Most Punchable

647
00:32:28.440 --> 00:32:34.619
Moment. which is absolutely named after that phenomenon, I think.

648
00:32:34.680 --> 00:32:35.579
Yeah.

649
00:32:35.640 --> 00:32:38.940
And I do wonder, I always wonder, one of those, I don't think, you

650
00:32:38.940 --> 00:32:40.380
know, what if Eccleston had done series two?

651
00:32:40.440 --> 00:32:43.079
would they have developed his doctor in that direction anyway?

652
00:32:43.140 --> 00:32:47.759
Would he have become more and more arrogant unless impassive?

653
00:32:47.819 --> 00:32:49.500
That's the wrong word, but less whatever he is.

654
00:32:49.559 --> 00:32:52.380
It is hard to know because, I mean, they do change.

655
00:32:52.500 --> 00:32:55.740
There's some of series 2 is kind of more or less written for

656
00:32:55.740 --> 00:32:59.940
Eccleston and obviously Tennant's performance is very different

657
00:32:59.940 --> 00:33:01.859
from that.

658
00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:05.339
But you can see a kind of version of the show.

659
00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:08.099
Anyway, I've talked about this before, but I have a feeling that

660
00:33:08.099 --> 00:33:11.460
Russell's blindsided by Billy's decision to depart at the end of

661
00:33:11.460 --> 00:33:11.940
series 2.

662
00:33:12.180 --> 00:33:15.480
And so a whole heap of what he intended to do with that

663
00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:18.900
relationship just never ends up properly happening. think.

664
00:33:19.019 --> 00:33:22.019
Right, because yeah, because I always felt watching series 2 that

665
00:33:22.019 --> 00:33:24.119
you know, this is building up to her having a realisation about

666
00:33:24.119 --> 00:33:25.259
how arrogant she's been.

667
00:33:25.259 --> 00:33:26.819
And in the end, she kind of doesn't.

668
00:33:26.880 --> 00:33:30.000
She just cries and feels sorry for herself and that's the end.

669
00:33:30.059 --> 00:33:32.940
It's like, okay, that wasn't you realising that you'd been wrong.

670
00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:35.339
No, no, I feel sorry.

671
00:33:35.400 --> 00:33:36.960
And that's kind of the end of this too.

672
00:33:37.019 --> 00:33:39.119
You know, she's feeling sorry for herself.

673
00:33:39.180 --> 00:33:40.920
There's the bit that she gets that line.

674
00:33:40.980 --> 00:33:42.900
This has nothing to do with Trisha. is all about me.

675
00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:45.119
She says to Mickey as an accusation.

676
00:33:45.180 --> 00:33:48.299
It reminds me there's a bit in one of the early Buffy episodes

677
00:33:48.299 --> 00:33:49.859
where Cordelia gets that line.

678
00:33:49.920 --> 00:33:53.279
It's all about me when she realises that whatever the curse of the

679
00:33:53.279 --> 00:33:55.259
week is, is actually all about her.

680
00:33:55.259 --> 00:33:57.359
And Sandler gets to say for once, she's right.

681
00:33:57.839 --> 00:34:02.339
It's just little droplets of Cordelia in Rose.

682
00:34:02.400 --> 00:34:03.299
She's not entirely buffy.

683
00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:05.700
I do feel like I spend this episode.

684
00:34:05.759 --> 00:34:10.380
Well, definitely originally, questioning whether the doctor is

685
00:34:10.380 --> 00:34:13.739
going to go through with taking Margaret back to be executed.

686
00:34:13.800 --> 00:34:18.360
It seems so certain initially, and then we get that very

687
00:34:18.360 --> 00:34:22.679
increasingly vile descriptions of what's going to happen to her.

688
00:34:22.739 --> 00:34:26.880
And there's so much more emphasis on that than what she's done

689
00:34:26.880 --> 00:34:29.219
even though I know we've sort of seen it in the 1st sort of half

690
00:34:29.219 --> 00:34:29.940
of the episode.

691
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:33.900
You start to sort of get to the point of, are there other

692
00:34:33.900 --> 00:34:34.320
options?

693
00:34:34.380 --> 00:34:35.519
Could he do something different?

694
00:34:35.579 --> 00:34:38.039
And in the end, the episode never follows through with it.

695
00:34:38.099 --> 00:34:40.380
The choice is taken away and he's never forced to make the

696
00:34:40.380 --> 00:34:40.739
decision.

697
00:34:41.099 --> 00:34:43.860
It is a little bit of a shame, isn't it?

698
00:34:43.980 --> 00:34:47.519
I also think the other thing that happens is that it's made very

699
00:34:47.519 --> 00:34:54.000
clear that all of this staff is Margaret just toying with him, she

700
00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:58.739
has no intention of allowing him to take her back, and she's

701
00:34:58.739 --> 00:35:02.099
already working on plan B, which is what happens and what

702
00:35:02.099 --> 00:35:06.599
interrupts their dinner, is that the extrapolator, which Jack is

703
00:35:06.599 --> 00:35:11.460
tinkering on, takes over the TARDIS and is about to get enough

704
00:35:11.460 --> 00:35:17.760
power for her to surf out of and destroy everything just as she

705
00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:19.559
had kind of planned to do.

706
00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:23.280
So all of that stuff is her playing him.

707
00:35:23.340 --> 00:35:25.920
Now, in retrospect, when you're watching it, you can just choose

708
00:35:25.920 --> 00:35:29.219
to not worry too much about that and then there's a twist and

709
00:35:29.219 --> 00:35:30.360
whatever.

710
00:35:30.420 --> 00:35:32.820
And then the story sort of changes.

711
00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:36.900
And I think the story tries to have its cake and eat it too, a

712
00:35:36.900 --> 00:35:41.219
little bit by having Margaret smiling beatifically into the shiny

713
00:35:41.219 --> 00:35:46.139
light and thanking the doctor as if she kind of understands what's

714
00:35:46.139 --> 00:35:46.800
about to happen.

715
00:35:46.860 --> 00:35:49.800
So maybe on some level.

716
00:35:49.860 --> 00:35:54.719
We're supposed to believe that the chance of a 2nd chance he's

717
00:35:54.719 --> 00:35:55.380
welcome to her.

718
00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:56.400
That's what she wants.

719
00:35:56.460 --> 00:36:01.679
But we don't get the chance to see where the doctor lies, what

720
00:36:01.679 --> 00:36:02.880
would the doctor have done?

721
00:36:02.940 --> 00:36:07.920
But we even get the kind of that whole conversation sort of

722
00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:12.420
undermined by what we then discover is going on in her head.

723
00:36:12.480 --> 00:36:15.059
I mean, I think that conversation is really magnificent.

724
00:36:15.119 --> 00:36:17.760
It is really great, isn't it?

725
00:36:17.820 --> 00:36:21.239
And what I really love about it is that it is a conversation.

726
00:36:21.300 --> 00:36:23.820
If Russell was writing this a year later, it would have been a

727
00:36:23.820 --> 00:36:24.119
speech.

728
00:36:24.239 --> 00:36:27.900
And we would have had a big closer on the doctor and he says, I

729
00:36:27.900 --> 00:36:29.820
have to, I could just imagine in my mind's eye.

730
00:36:29.880 --> 00:36:30.360
Yeah, yeah.

731
00:36:30.360 --> 00:36:33.300
It's not, it's characters working it through and yeah, she's

732
00:36:33.300 --> 00:36:36.000
chipping away at him and he knows she's doing it and he's got his

733
00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:37.860
defences up and it still starts working.

734
00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:40.800
I wouldn't be surprised if it was all along.

735
00:36:40.860 --> 00:36:43.679
Russell was thinking, obviously there'll be a get out for him.

736
00:36:43.739 --> 00:36:46.380
This isn't the story where we find out whether the doctor really

737
00:36:46.380 --> 00:36:48.059
will send someone to their death.

738
00:36:48.119 --> 00:36:50.519
It's the episode where the doctor is forced to think he might have

739
00:36:50.519 --> 00:36:52.320
to think about that.

740
00:36:52.380 --> 00:36:57.780
And it is one of the 1st times, one of our 1st Russell T. Davis

741
00:36:57.780 --> 00:36:59.579
etch mashing endings.

742
00:36:59.639 --> 00:37:03.840
So it when 1st few times you do it, it doesn't eclipse the central

743
00:37:03.840 --> 00:37:06.780
message about it, which is the point is, yeah, the doctor had to

744
00:37:06.780 --> 00:37:07.619
think he might have to do that.

745
00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:09.599
And yeah, that's quite all quite political.

746
00:37:09.659 --> 00:37:12.300
The whole European human rights act thing, not being able to

747
00:37:12.300 --> 00:37:14.460
deport criminals to countries where they might face the death

748
00:37:14.460 --> 00:37:15.000
penalty.

749
00:37:15.059 --> 00:37:17.280
That the real ongoing debate 20 years later.

750
00:37:17.340 --> 00:37:19.260
Oh, goodness, isn't it?

751
00:37:19.320 --> 00:37:24.000
That's kind of depressing Probably more so now then.

752
00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:24.659
Yeah.

753
00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:31.139
It's the opposite of a Dr. Light episode.

754
00:37:31.199 --> 00:37:33.539
The doctor's bang in the middle of it, but and yet it sort of

755
00:37:33.539 --> 00:37:36.000
feels like it's doing what the Doctor Who light episodes is often

756
00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:40.019
do in terms of tone and in terms of being a character study.

757
00:37:40.079 --> 00:37:43.679
I do remember 1st watching it, I was there thinking, is it going

758
00:37:43.679 --> 00:37:44.280
to get going soon?

759
00:37:44.340 --> 00:37:47.099
And the once you get about halfway through.

760
00:37:47.159 --> 00:37:50.820
And at 1st I was like, okay, did I see what they're doing?

761
00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:53.639
It's quite interesting, but I want a proper episode next week.

762
00:37:53.699 --> 00:37:56.820
And it's one that's really grown to become one of my all-time

763
00:37:56.820 --> 00:38:00.539
favourite episodes in the couple of years after it 1st went out

764
00:38:00.539 --> 00:38:03.420
because, yeah, it didn't, it didn't blow me away on 1st viewing

765
00:38:03.420 --> 00:38:04.559
because that's not what I was trying to do.

766
00:38:04.619 --> 00:38:05.280
It's just.

767
00:38:05.340 --> 00:38:09.239
We are about 20 minutes in, really, before the doctor and crew and

768
00:38:09.239 --> 00:38:12.780
are together with Margaret and we kind of get a bit more of a hint

769
00:38:12.780 --> 00:38:14.460
of where is this actually going for the episode?

770
00:38:14.519 --> 00:38:15.659
Yeah.

771
00:38:15.719 --> 00:38:17.219
Yeah. is what it's really about.

772
00:38:17.280 --> 00:38:20.039
I love that she'd got permission to demolish the castle.

773
00:38:20.099 --> 00:38:23.699
So again, like that is unbelievably great.

774
00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:26.880
And like, I'm not quite sure what's happening there.

775
00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:33.539
So it's clear that in this sort of, in this run of RTD, the future

776
00:38:33.539 --> 00:38:38.639
is played largely for comedy and the past is serious, but the

777
00:38:38.639 --> 00:38:41.880
present is really cartoony, isn't it?

778
00:38:41.940 --> 00:38:46.739
And like it really kind of wears its unreality on its sleeve.

779
00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:51.480
Like no one is going to allow kind of castle to be demolished.

780
00:38:51.539 --> 00:38:52.800
That's never going to happen.

781
00:38:52.860 --> 00:38:56.400
We're not going to build a nuclear power plant right next to a

782
00:38:56.400 --> 00:38:59.460
major population centre as Margaret herself.

783
00:38:59.880 --> 00:39:04.260
The word nuclear power station and major population centre.

784
00:39:04.320 --> 00:39:06.119
I'm the happiest of bedfellows.

785
00:39:07.260 --> 00:39:10.679
The smash cut is wonderful where the doctor says, we can just

786
00:39:10.679 --> 00:39:11.400
leave the TARDIS here.

787
00:39:11.460 --> 00:39:13.380
Central Cardiff, safest place in the universe.

788
00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:16.139
This nuclear power station.

789
00:39:16.260 --> 00:39:18.300
That's what you do.

790
00:39:18.360 --> 00:39:20.940
It's almost, you know, it's the borderline between Austin Powers

791
00:39:20.940 --> 00:39:22.980
and real, James Bond kind of situate humour.

792
00:39:23.039 --> 00:39:27.119
James Bond is often very nearly as funny as Austin Powers.

793
00:39:27.119 --> 00:39:28.079
Yeah, it used to be.

794
00:39:28.139 --> 00:39:30.840
And once upon a time.

795
00:39:30.900 --> 00:39:33.719
And yeah, it's doing that same thing.

796
00:39:33.780 --> 00:39:36.360
Let's almost spoof Doctor Who.

797
00:39:36.420 --> 00:39:37.440
But keep it on track.

798
00:39:37.800 --> 00:39:41.460
But it's also like, it's not our actual present.

799
00:39:41.519 --> 00:39:46.739
It's always, you know, since 6 weeks earlier, we have had a false

800
00:39:46.739 --> 00:39:50.400
present and we are now actually what is meant to be like 18 months

801
00:39:50.400 --> 00:39:52.559
later since like Rose.

802
00:39:52.619 --> 00:39:58.380
So this is an alternative. like autumn 2006 technically.

803
00:39:58.440 --> 00:40:01.679
Yeah, where everyone knows the earth nearly got invaded a few

804
00:40:01.679 --> 00:40:01.980
months ago.

805
00:40:02.039 --> 00:40:02.340
Yeah.

806
00:40:02.400 --> 00:40:05.940
This is like the equivment of unit dating in the 21st century.

807
00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:08.820
I'm thinking a bit of a mess at some point.

808
00:40:09.239 --> 00:40:11.820
He's being more careful about it.

809
00:40:11.880 --> 00:40:15.719
I think he's probably learned his lesson because we have that very

810
00:40:15.719 --> 00:40:19.380
definite period between rose and aliens of London, which is, you

811
00:40:19.380 --> 00:40:20.400
know, quantified.

812
00:40:20.460 --> 00:40:21.780
We're told how long that is.

813
00:40:21.840 --> 00:40:24.119
And we do get 6 months later here.

814
00:40:24.179 --> 00:40:29.400
And I'm almost certain that it's 6 months later because it's 6

815
00:40:29.400 --> 00:40:31.860
weeks later in real time.

816
00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:35.099
And of course, it's not really long enough for Margaret.

817
00:40:35.159 --> 00:40:39.179
I mean, she's just been elected mayor, so Newman, New Cardiff.

818
00:40:39.239 --> 00:40:41.400
There are no photos of her for some reason.

819
00:40:41.460 --> 00:40:43.619
I don't quite know what's happening there.

820
00:40:43.679 --> 00:40:44.699
No photos.

821
00:40:44.820 --> 00:40:47.880
I'm the mayor. take a photo of me, take a photo of the new prop

822
00:40:47.880 --> 00:40:50.639
that we spent 10s of pounds on.

823
00:40:51.960 --> 00:40:55.739
The torchwood crew, of course, are all hiding.

824
00:40:55.800 --> 00:40:58.559
Well, this is going on because Captain Jack is already there.

825
00:40:58.619 --> 00:41:02.460
Yeah, running torchwood. taking them on an away day.

826
00:41:03.900 --> 00:41:05.940
Do you remember that?

827
00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:09.719
We didn't know how any of that fitted together for so long and

828
00:41:09.719 --> 00:41:13.079
then it all just gets kind of solved very quickly and without much

829
00:41:13.079 --> 00:41:15.539
fast, but it's entirely.

830
00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:18.480
They were they were all doing Laser Quest in Swansea that day or

831
00:41:18.480 --> 00:41:18.780
something.

832
00:41:18.840 --> 00:41:20.880
That's almost certainly how it happened.

833
00:41:21.300 --> 00:41:23.699
A team building exercise.

834
00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:29.099
Talking of spinoffs, we get mentions of offscreen adventures, I

835
00:41:29.099 --> 00:41:30.539
think, for the 1st time here, don't we?

836
00:41:30.599 --> 00:41:34.739
Rose talks about woman wept and names of planet that's in a book

837
00:41:34.739 --> 00:41:37.619
that would come out, which is...

838
00:41:37.739 --> 00:41:40.619
Justicia, I think, is the name of the planet that she mentions.

839
00:41:40.679 --> 00:41:45.059
And then the doctor will mention some other offscreen adventures

840
00:41:45.059 --> 00:41:47.760
at the beginning of Bad Wolf.

841
00:41:47.820 --> 00:41:51.420
You know, he mentions the adventure that they've just been on in

842
00:41:51.420 --> 00:41:54.719
kind of feudal Japan, which I think is a reference to a book as

843
00:41:54.719 --> 00:41:55.260
well.

844
00:41:55.320 --> 00:41:58.500
And generally speaking, that was something that they didn't want

845
00:41:58.500 --> 00:41:59.400
to do too much.

846
00:41:59.460 --> 00:42:04.500
I think the BBC had rules about not requiring people to kind of

847
00:42:04.500 --> 00:42:07.739
buy spinoff material in order to understand what's going on in the

848
00:42:07.739 --> 00:42:08.400
parent show.

849
00:42:08.460 --> 00:42:13.019
But I think the reason for it here is that because this show

850
00:42:13.019 --> 00:42:17.099
starts from Mickey's point of view, we aren't following the

851
00:42:17.099 --> 00:42:19.019
doctor's adventures at this point.

852
00:42:19.079 --> 00:42:23.579
And so having some time pass. and having other things happen.

853
00:42:23.639 --> 00:42:29.340
And I think too, at this point, you know, series one is set in and

854
00:42:29.340 --> 00:42:31.199
around Earth in its entirety.

855
00:42:31.260 --> 00:42:35.039
It's basically, you know, platform one, satellite 5, and

856
00:42:35.039 --> 00:42:37.380
everything else is on Earth, we never go off.

857
00:42:37.440 --> 00:42:42.000
And I don't think that we actually go to an alien planet until, you

858
00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:45.179
know, the beginning of the next season.

859
00:42:45.239 --> 00:42:50.280
And even then it's just a very, very, very cold and windy day in

860
00:42:50.280 --> 00:42:51.360
Wales, isn't it?

861
00:42:51.420 --> 00:42:58.260
So, I guess telling that stuff, like telling those, you know, like

862
00:42:58.260 --> 00:43:02.400
having Rose say that stuff fills that in for us.

863
00:43:02.460 --> 00:43:07.800
We also get Jack's story as well, which is, you know, we come in

864
00:43:07.800 --> 00:43:09.840
as the audience halfway through this story.

865
00:43:09.900 --> 00:43:13.920
It's a kind of put us in Mickey's view as well there.

866
00:43:13.980 --> 00:43:18.960
Um, and that great big hilarious story and we're not, we, we can't

867
00:43:18.960 --> 00:43:21.480
get the joke of it um, as well.

868
00:43:21.539 --> 00:43:23.099
Yeah.

869
00:43:23.099 --> 00:43:27.059
It's a very odd scene in that cafe and that having very loud and

870
00:43:27.059 --> 00:43:30.539
not a single, one of those retired people sat reading the

871
00:43:30.539 --> 00:43:34.079
newspapers and stuff, takes a glance at them, which feels so like

872
00:43:34.079 --> 00:43:36.239
you've told the extras not to look at the action.

873
00:43:36.300 --> 00:43:40.380
Watching the reaction of the of the extra when the doctor gets up

874
00:43:40.380 --> 00:43:43.980
and takes his newspaper off him and walks back to the table.

875
00:43:44.039 --> 00:43:49.440
Um, he, uh, really doesn't quite know exactly how to react to

876
00:43:49.440 --> 00:43:50.039
that.

877
00:43:50.519 --> 00:43:52.980
No, you dare act. for not paying your tenement.

878
00:43:53.039 --> 00:43:56.099
Yeah, he just turns to the person he sat next to, doesn't he?

879
00:43:56.460 --> 00:43:57.360
just carries on talking.

880
00:43:58.199 --> 00:44:03.420
I mean, the fun thing about that, though, is that that story is a

881
00:44:03.420 --> 00:44:06.659
kind of shaggy dog story, and Mickey is the one who guesses the

882
00:44:06.659 --> 00:44:07.800
final line of it.

883
00:44:07.860 --> 00:44:12.539
And so, like, that's the other thing too, is that things look like

884
00:44:12.539 --> 00:44:14.039
they're going really well.

885
00:44:14.099 --> 00:44:16.739
Like Mickey comes in, he owns them.

886
00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:17.639
Do you know what I mean?

887
00:44:17.699 --> 00:44:21.480
He is winning at some of the banter there.

888
00:44:21.539 --> 00:44:27.179
He's, and remember the kind of the last time that we saw Mickey, I

889
00:44:27.179 --> 00:44:28.860
guess, except in Father's Day.

890
00:44:28.980 --> 00:44:30.719
The doctor is actually quite nice to him.

891
00:44:30.840 --> 00:44:35.280
He's been a bit of a hero in World War 3 and stuff, saving Jackie

892
00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:35.940
and things.

893
00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:38.880
He gets to be, he's not Mickey the idiot in that.

894
00:44:39.119 --> 00:44:44.460
No, and the doctor actually invites him aboard the Tartars and he

895
00:44:44.460 --> 00:44:50.099
says no, and he also kind of doesn't want Rose to know that he

896
00:44:50.099 --> 00:44:52.739
said no, that he doesn't think he could take it.

897
00:44:52.800 --> 00:44:56.940
And so the doctor kind of pretends that he's not allowing him

898
00:44:56.940 --> 00:44:58.139
aboard the Tartars.

899
00:44:58.199 --> 00:45:02.940
And so the doctor has developed a liking for Mickey at this

900
00:45:02.940 --> 00:45:03.539
point.

901
00:45:03.599 --> 00:45:08.159
And Mickey does start to, like, things start to warm up.

902
00:45:08.159 --> 00:45:11.099
And there's even that scene, which is really unusual for Doctor

903
00:45:11.099 --> 00:45:15.239
Who and is just really perfect, where Mickey and Rose talk about

904
00:45:15.239 --> 00:45:18.599
like, Rose admits that she didn't need her passport.

905
00:45:18.659 --> 00:45:19.679
She just wanted to see him.

906
00:45:19.679 --> 00:45:22.860
And that seems nice.

907
00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:26.639
Do you know what I mean until I think we're invited to reinterpret

908
00:45:26.639 --> 00:45:29.880
it later as her just being demanding and manipulative and really

909
00:45:29.880 --> 00:45:32.699
kind of horrible. wanting to keep him ticking over.

910
00:45:32.820 --> 00:45:33.659
Yeah, that's right.

911
00:45:33.719 --> 00:45:34.440
But it does seem nice.

912
00:45:34.500 --> 00:45:36.420
She shouts, jump, and he comes.

913
00:45:36.480 --> 00:45:37.679
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

914
00:45:37.739 --> 00:45:39.480
But it looks like things are going well.

915
00:45:39.539 --> 00:45:40.920
You know, we're going to go out to dinner.

916
00:45:40.980 --> 00:45:42.119
We are going to a hotel.

917
00:45:42.179 --> 00:45:44.699
We've kind of decided that we're going to do that. and that seemed

918
00:45:44.699 --> 00:45:46.739
like a very kind of grown up.

919
00:45:46.800 --> 00:45:50.460
You know, it's a step beyond a saying, you know, professor, I'm

920
00:45:50.460 --> 00:45:51.360
not a little girl anymore.

921
00:45:51.420 --> 00:45:58.380
You know, no, you're about 27. response that.

922
00:45:58.679 --> 00:46:01.920
You're about to fall in love with a cheater person.

923
00:46:02.880 --> 00:46:06.360
But I mean, there is going to be some sex having going on.

924
00:46:06.420 --> 00:46:07.380
Do you know what I mean?

925
00:46:07.440 --> 00:46:08.699
Like later on in the evening.

926
00:46:08.760 --> 00:46:11.760
And so things do look like they're going well, but the whole thing

927
00:46:11.760 --> 00:46:13.199
kind of goes to hell.

928
00:46:13.260 --> 00:46:17.099
And I'm not quite sure exactly why.

929
00:46:17.159 --> 00:46:20.219
There doesn't seem to be a big thing, does there?

930
00:46:20.280 --> 00:46:22.199
Like, he blurts her out.

931
00:46:22.260 --> 00:46:27.179
Well, it's him mentioning Sheila Delaney and suddenly they've kind

932
00:46:27.179 --> 00:46:30.239
she's quite keen on the idea initially of, oh, we could go for a

933
00:46:30.239 --> 00:46:30.539
drink.

934
00:46:30.599 --> 00:46:32.940
I could got a hotel, I could get some got some money.

935
00:46:33.000 --> 00:46:37.559
And then actually, later, they're quite awkwardly like, they've

936
00:46:37.559 --> 00:46:43.860
moved apart on like standing around and it's just such an

937
00:46:43.860 --> 00:46:47.219
awkwardness in between them and he mentions the hotel again.

938
00:46:47.280 --> 00:46:49.320
She's just like, Sheila Delaney.

939
00:46:49.380 --> 00:46:53.880
Like there's no kind of big obvious thing. like it's like a real

940
00:46:53.880 --> 00:46:58.920
conversation in that it kind of goes pear shaped because of some

941
00:46:58.920 --> 00:47:00.840
awkwardness that they can't overcome.

942
00:47:00.900 --> 00:47:05.699
And the moment where it really kind of takes a turn for the worst

943
00:47:05.699 --> 00:47:09.360
is when he just says, I'm going out with Trisha.

944
00:47:09.360 --> 00:47:14.579
And then it kind of goes to hell and then now Rose is kind of

945
00:47:14.579 --> 00:47:16.980
contemptuous and a little bit put out.

946
00:47:17.039 --> 00:47:19.619
There's a bit of a feeling as well that they haven't got anything

947
00:47:19.619 --> 00:47:25.559
in common to talk about, she tells him about stuff and then he

948
00:47:25.559 --> 00:47:30.960
tells her what he's been up to back home and it is worlds apart of

949
00:47:30.960 --> 00:47:33.420
and they, what have they got to talk about what would happen

950
00:47:33.420 --> 00:47:34.739
between them 18 months ago?

951
00:47:34.800 --> 00:47:37.980
It's the archetypal couple who decided to say they're going to

952
00:47:37.980 --> 00:47:39.780
stay together when one of them goes to university and the other

953
00:47:39.780 --> 00:47:40.860
one doesn't, you know.

954
00:47:40.980 --> 00:47:43.320
This is kind of what it thought me about.

955
00:47:43.380 --> 00:47:46.619
So when we talk about like, oh, rose changing and stuff, it is

956
00:47:46.619 --> 00:47:50.219
that age of, you know, going to university or like leaving home

957
00:47:50.219 --> 00:47:55.559
and getting your 1st job and stuff, it's okay to change, but you

958
00:47:55.559 --> 00:47:59.340
do also think sometimes have that realisation that the people you

959
00:47:59.340 --> 00:48:02.519
like were friends with growing up, you suddenly don't have

960
00:48:02.519 --> 00:48:07.019
anything in common apart from you're from the same place or you're

961
00:48:07.019 --> 00:48:11.940
roughly the same age and you know, you found some new things that

962
00:48:11.940 --> 00:48:13.800
are going to define you and change you.

963
00:48:13.920 --> 00:48:19.260
Yes, it takes a turn for the worst there, but the clinching moment

964
00:48:19.260 --> 00:48:24.659
for me is that she just runs off to try and get back to the TARDIS

965
00:48:24.659 --> 00:48:26.940
and forgets about him.

966
00:48:27.000 --> 00:48:28.500
You know, they had the fight.

967
00:48:28.559 --> 00:48:30.239
Like, the ground starts to shake.

968
00:48:30.300 --> 00:48:35.699
People start screaming and she just runs off and leaves him and

969
00:48:35.699 --> 00:48:36.900
well, it's not her.

970
00:48:36.960 --> 00:48:39.239
It's an extra with some terrible pigtails.

971
00:48:39.300 --> 00:48:43.260
But he doesn't run after her, but she just runs off without doing

972
00:48:43.260 --> 00:48:44.340
or saying anything.

973
00:48:44.400 --> 00:48:48.840
And she's she's off to get the doctor, you know, like she's off

974
00:48:48.840 --> 00:48:51.239
because there's an adventure and now Mickey's no longer

975
00:48:51.239 --> 00:48:51.719
interesting.

976
00:48:51.780 --> 00:48:54.900
It's not that she's abandoning Mickey or doesn't care what happens

977
00:48:54.900 --> 00:48:56.039
to him or anything like that.

978
00:48:56.099 --> 00:48:59.579
It's just her 1st instinct is, I've got to run to the Tartars.

979
00:48:59.639 --> 00:49:00.780
And Mickey knows that.

980
00:49:00.840 --> 00:49:02.760
Like, that's how Mickey's interpreting it as well.

981
00:49:02.820 --> 00:49:06.179
I don't think he's interpreting it as I'm being abandoned by you

982
00:49:06.179 --> 00:49:09.659
to my terrible fate while this restaurant in Carter lands on top

983
00:49:09.659 --> 00:49:10.619
of me or anything.

984
00:49:10.679 --> 00:49:15.480
Like, it's just that I'm less interesting to you than whatever

985
00:49:15.480 --> 00:49:17.280
adventure is going on over there.

986
00:49:17.340 --> 00:49:18.719
That's still pretty crushing, though.

987
00:49:18.780 --> 00:49:20.760
Yeah, no, no, it is absolutely that.

988
00:49:20.820 --> 00:49:25.380
There's one small thing as well. back at the start of the episode

989
00:49:25.380 --> 00:49:27.719
when they 1st exit the TARDIS and they're going off to the cafe

990
00:49:27.719 --> 00:49:29.340
and Mickey's just turned up.

991
00:49:29.400 --> 00:49:33.840
And as they're walking off, Rose grabs the doctor's arm in a just

992
00:49:33.840 --> 00:49:38.039
to kind of go friendly heading off together, but that film is such

993
00:49:38.039 --> 00:49:42.059
a sign of how close friend she's become with the doctor and yet

994
00:49:42.059 --> 00:49:45.659
Mickey has just turned up. like, my God, like hold his hand like

995
00:49:45.659 --> 00:49:49.559
although it's clear kind of art that they're meant to be boyfriend

996
00:49:49.559 --> 00:49:53.159
and girlfriends like previously, but clearly like by this time it

997
00:49:53.159 --> 00:49:55.500
seems to be, they're not entirely sure what they are anymore.

998
00:49:55.559 --> 00:49:58.139
Also, like, he's turned up.

999
00:49:58.199 --> 00:49:59.760
She grabs the doctor's arm.

1000
00:49:59.880 --> 00:50:02.340
He's trailing along behind them, all of them.

1001
00:50:02.400 --> 00:50:04.559
And she puts her head on the doctor's shoulder.

1002
00:50:04.679 --> 00:50:10.199
And it's like, oh, my god, that's just, oh, my my heart breaks for

1003
00:50:10.199 --> 00:50:10.739
him just there.

1004
00:50:10.980 --> 00:50:12.840
He gets to win.

1005
00:50:12.900 --> 00:50:16.139
I mean, I think he goes on his own terms, doesn't he?

1006
00:50:16.199 --> 00:50:19.739
So these things never sort of properly stick, I think, in this

1007
00:50:19.739 --> 00:50:20.280
era.

1008
00:50:20.340 --> 00:50:25.260
Like there's not necessarily a proper through line about their

1009
00:50:25.260 --> 00:50:28.139
relationship or there's nothing super intentional about it.

1010
00:50:28.199 --> 00:50:32.940
We turn up, you know, mostly Mickey's here because we want him in

1011
00:50:32.940 --> 00:50:33.900
it for some reason.

1012
00:50:33.960 --> 00:50:37.500
We're never again primarily about the relationship between Rose

1013
00:50:37.500 --> 00:50:41.340
and Mickey, I think, in a way that this episode is.

1014
00:50:41.400 --> 00:50:46.559
But he kind of gets to just hang back and not allow himself to be

1015
00:50:46.559 --> 00:50:47.039
found.

1016
00:50:47.099 --> 00:50:52.500
He doesn't want to give her the chance to apologise and he doesn't

1017
00:50:52.500 --> 00:50:54.659
want to give her the chance to make up for it.

1018
00:50:54.719 --> 00:50:59.880
And like I think he's learned properly what she's like.

1019
00:50:59.940 --> 00:51:03.179
Yeah, he's got to slip away, otherwise he will never be able to

1020
00:51:03.179 --> 00:51:03.780
break free.

1021
00:51:03.840 --> 00:51:06.960
His thing as well, him saying always, he talks about he will

1022
00:51:06.960 --> 00:51:09.360
always come after her and stuff earlier.

1023
00:51:09.420 --> 00:51:13.800
And I wonder if that is the realisation that he needs something to

1024
00:51:13.800 --> 00:51:15.900
stop himself doing that.

1025
00:51:15.960 --> 00:51:18.659
He wants a relationship that is nice and is happy.

1026
00:51:18.719 --> 00:51:23.699
And needs to feel not beholden to her.

1027
00:51:23.760 --> 00:51:26.760
So instead he goes and marries a woman who was unrequited in love

1028
00:51:26.760 --> 00:51:27.179
with the doctor.

1029
00:51:28.139 --> 00:51:32.579
Just one of the oddest arcs. that we've ever had.

1030
00:51:47.219 --> 00:51:52.380
I really, really like how good Margaret looks in the TARDIS

1031
00:51:52.380 --> 00:51:55.980
console room with the green light on her face.

1032
00:51:56.039 --> 00:52:00.900
And so we don't need to put her in the stupid costume because she

1033
00:52:00.900 --> 00:52:04.980
because the savine is meant to look like the face of a person, you

1034
00:52:04.980 --> 00:52:07.739
know, it's a baby face, but it's also the face of someone who's

1035
00:52:07.739 --> 00:52:09.659
carrying some extra weight.

1036
00:52:09.719 --> 00:52:13.500
And so, like, she's got the big cheeks and everything that a

1037
00:52:13.500 --> 00:52:17.940
Slovine has and she's green, like, Joe, her and puts the green

1038
00:52:17.940 --> 00:52:18.719
light on her.

1039
00:52:18.780 --> 00:52:23.820
And in this era, you know, the Tardis is either golden or green in

1040
00:52:23.820 --> 00:52:25.199
the way that it's lit.

1041
00:52:25.199 --> 00:52:28.980
And I think it depended on who the lighting guy was that day.

1042
00:52:29.039 --> 00:52:34.739
But we very definitely get those scenes where, like, it's just

1043
00:52:34.739 --> 00:52:39.239
before dinner, isn't it, and where she really kind of lays out

1044
00:52:39.239 --> 00:52:45.179
what the dilemma's going to be, and she looks like a Slovene in

1045
00:52:45.179 --> 00:52:46.380
that scene.

1046
00:52:46.440 --> 00:52:48.659
And I think that's kind of really well done.

1047
00:52:48.719 --> 00:52:53.460
I think the decision to kind of minimise the use of the Sabine

1048
00:52:53.460 --> 00:52:58.559
costume and to kind of eliminate the use of the CGI one and just

1049
00:52:58.559 --> 00:52:59.880
to make it a prop.

1050
00:52:59.940 --> 00:53:02.219
It's obviously a budgetary thing.

1051
00:53:02.280 --> 00:53:05.880
It's a cheap episode, but it also means that we get Annette and

1052
00:53:05.880 --> 00:53:09.480
her performance in all of that rather than some big guy called

1053
00:53:09.480 --> 00:53:11.579
Alec in a rubaround.

1054
00:53:11.639 --> 00:53:13.860
Which is always going to be the right choice.

1055
00:53:13.920 --> 00:53:17.099
But I wonder how she lifted that arm up.

1056
00:53:17.820 --> 00:53:19.920
Was it on a winch?

1057
00:53:21.360 --> 00:53:23.519
It's a very heavy arm.

1058
00:53:23.579 --> 00:53:25.320
She's very strong in air.

1059
00:53:25.860 --> 00:53:30.539
She's a fantastic villainous character in the archers, the BBCs

1060
00:53:30.539 --> 00:53:32.280
even longer than Doctor Who running right.

1061
00:53:32.340 --> 00:53:35.639
Yeah, she's she only she sort of flies out on a broomstick every

1062
00:53:35.639 --> 00:53:40.500
decade for a few episodes. the daughter of the estranged daughter

1063
00:53:40.500 --> 00:53:43.559
of the kindly old man who I think's long since gone now, but she

1064
00:53:43.559 --> 00:53:45.900
was always just coming in to try and get more money out of him and

1065
00:53:45.900 --> 00:53:47.880
to get herself into his will and things like that.

1066
00:53:47.940 --> 00:53:52.860
So she, Yeah, she's got a very good villain voice well practised

1067
00:53:52.860 --> 00:53:54.900
from that, I think, which I think she was doing around the same

1068
00:53:54.900 --> 00:53:57.179
time as this early naughties, I think.

1069
00:53:57.239 --> 00:54:01.800
At the other end of the spectrum, she's quite a good proprietress

1070
00:54:01.800 --> 00:54:05.099
of a pub in Ted Lasso.

1071
00:54:05.159 --> 00:54:07.139
Oh, I've never seen that.

1072
00:54:07.199 --> 00:54:10.320
I remember, like, I think she was wonderfully in wizards versus

1073
00:54:10.320 --> 00:54:11.039
aliens.

1074
00:54:11.099 --> 00:54:14.460
Like I was a, um, I really enjoyed Wizards versus Aliens and it

1075
00:54:14.460 --> 00:54:17.219
was the 1st time that we ever saw Gwendolen Christie and stuff and

1076
00:54:17.219 --> 00:54:21.179
it had a giant puppet, Brian Blessed in it, and she was like, she

1077
00:54:21.179 --> 00:54:22.320
was fabulous.

1078
00:54:22.380 --> 00:54:24.239
Like, she was just awesome in that.

1079
00:54:24.300 --> 00:54:28.440
Just, it was very nice that she got that sort of big role in

1080
00:54:28.440 --> 00:54:30.179
another RTD thing.

1081
00:54:57.300 --> 00:54:59.760
Well, that's all the time we have on his ring.

1082
00:54:59.820 --> 00:55:03.119
We'll be back next week to catch up with Samantha Bonds, Mrs

1083
00:55:03.119 --> 00:55:06.960
Wormwood, and she gets to menace a new set of children in the

1084
00:55:06.960 --> 00:55:09.300
Sarah Jane Adventures, Enemy of the Bane.

1085
00:55:09.420 --> 00:55:12.780
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

1086
00:55:12.780 --> 00:55:16.619
and you can keep up with us on our website, 500yearDiary.com, where

1087
00:55:16.619 --> 00:55:19.679
you'll find our social media links, as well as links to all of our

1088
00:55:19.679 --> 00:55:23.699
other podcasts, including our other Doctor Who podcasts, flight

1089
00:55:23.699 --> 00:55:27.179
through entirety, and the 2nd great and bountiful Human Empire.

1090
00:55:27.300 --> 00:55:31.800
Until next time, it's going to be a cold winter, so be careful out

1091
00:55:31.800 --> 00:55:33.179
there on the ice.

1092
00:55:33.239 --> 00:55:35.340
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1093
00:55:35.400 --> 00:55:36.480
Good night.

1094
00:55:36.539 --> 00:55:37.559
Bye bye.

1095
00:55:37.619 --> 00:55:38.280
Ta-ta.

1096
00:55:50.340 --> 00:55:54.179
That was 500 Year Diary starring Nathan Bottomley, Hannah Cooper

1097
00:55:54.179 --> 00:55:56.219
Pete Lambert, and James Selwood.

1098
00:55:56.280 --> 00:55:58.619
The theme was composed by Cameron Lamb.

1099
00:55:58.679 --> 00:56:03.900
This episode, Aliens of Posh, was recorded on the 25th of May 2025

1100
00:56:03.900 --> 00:56:05.639
and released on the 22nd of June.

1101
00:56:06.840 --> 00:56:11.340
Well, I'm planning to spend the next week in the nearby parallel

1102
00:56:11.340 --> 00:56:15.420
universe where Idris Hopper plate Alad Pedrick in Torchwood

1103
00:56:15.420 --> 00:56:17.880
instead of Gareth David Lloyd as Yanto Jones.

1104
00:56:17.940 --> 00:56:21.059
It's a kind of gentler reality than this one.

1105
00:56:21.179 --> 00:56:22.440
People are nice.

1106
00:56:33.539 --> 00:56:38.820
It's nice that they hang the, um, the hat on it of the explanation

1107
00:56:38.820 --> 00:56:41.639
of the, the great line in that, in that scene in the TARD as well

1108
00:56:41.639 --> 00:56:42.960
uh, right, I think it's Rose gets to say.

1109
00:56:43.019 --> 00:56:44.699
So it's finally being used as a real police box.

1110
00:56:44.760 --> 00:56:47.280
They have the split up at the start where they do have to explain

1111
00:56:47.280 --> 00:56:49.559
to the children.

1112
00:56:49.619 --> 00:56:51.300
And anyone born after 1980.

1113
00:56:51.480 --> 00:56:53.940
What a police box was actually four.

1114
00:56:54.000 --> 00:56:56.039
It's not just a telephone booth.

1115
00:56:56.099 --> 00:56:58.260
It's a little police cell as well.

1116
00:56:58.320 --> 00:56:59.820
That was really good, actually, wasn't it?

1117
00:56:59.880 --> 00:57:02.159
Because you kind of think, well, we've got time to do that.

1118
00:57:02.219 --> 00:57:03.780
We're not running from anything.

1119
00:57:03.840 --> 00:57:07.980
This is a more slow paced, less urgent story.

1120
00:57:07.980 --> 00:57:11.880
No peril is going to kick in until the last kind of 10 minutes or

1121
00:57:11.880 --> 00:57:12.059
so.

1122
00:57:12.119 --> 00:57:15.780
And so we've got time to do some much needed exposition.

1123
00:57:15.780 --> 00:57:17.400
And it really is much needed.

1124
00:57:17.460 --> 00:57:21.179
It's the 1st time the show has ever mentioned it since it sort of

1125
00:57:21.179 --> 00:57:21.539
comes back.

1126
00:57:21.659 --> 00:57:23.760
He just calls it a disguise, doesn't he?

1127
00:57:23.820 --> 00:57:25.079
in the opening being.

1128
00:57:25.139 --> 00:57:28.920
And Rose calls it the cloaking device and he corrects her to

1129
00:57:28.920 --> 00:57:29.760
chameleon circuit.

1130
00:57:29.820 --> 00:57:30.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1131
00:57:30.539 --> 00:57:35.280
One of the 2 major references to the 1996 movie.

1132
00:57:35.280 --> 00:57:41.219
The other one being, I think, when the Daleks, does a Dalek, does

1133
00:57:41.219 --> 00:57:44.400
the Dalek emperor say something about being half human or being

1134
00:57:44.400 --> 00:57:48.480
partly human and all of the Dalek's chorus, that is blasphemy.

1135
00:57:48.539 --> 00:57:51.239
I think...

1136
00:57:51.480 --> 00:57:55.800
Almost certainly a reference. reference to that as well.

1137
00:57:55.980 --> 00:57:58.139
I reckon we've got an out.

1138
00:57:58.199 --> 00:58:01.800
I think we're probably in the in the in the tag stage at this

1139
00:58:01.800 --> 00:58:02.099
point.

1140
00:58:02.159 --> 00:58:03.480
Don't you?

1141
00:58:03.539 --> 00:58:04.139
Do you think?

1142
00:58:04.199 --> 00:58:04.739
Yeah