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This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 09:08:11

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to 500 year diary.

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The only Doctor Who podcast with little resistance to immersion in liquids.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm James.

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Hi, Mark.

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And I'm Simon.

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It's the 22nd of February, 1975.

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It's been just over a year since Kevin Lindsay removed his Santaran helmet, and tonight the 11000000 people who've tuned in.

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We'll get to see him do it again.

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But can a comic foil for the dog to thrive in this year's new darker version of the show?

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Let's find out as we discuss the Santarin experiment.

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So, we are on location in, where are we?

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Dartmoor, is it?

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I think it is Dartmore.

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It's very bleak and very cold.

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Do you think it's cold?

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It looks freezing.

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And wet.

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And wet.

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And we're on videotape.

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How do you feel about that?

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Very strange.

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I mean, we all kind of grew up in an era where outside things looked like they were on film and inside things looked like they were on videotape because we consumed so much BBC material.

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I don't know what I thought back in the day.

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Did I think it looked different or not?

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Did anyone else when they were a kid?

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the house always looks so... the way the inside of the house looks in focus on the outside. has a bit of a shake to it, you know?

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It's not the 1st story that shot entirely on videotape because robot is shot entirely on videotape.

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Yeah, that was so that they could do a better job than they'd done with the dinosaurs the previous year of getting the giant robot CSO'd against the background.

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They thought that it would be better if it was videotape on video tape rather than kind of videotape monsters hovering uncertainly against a sort of film background.

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But I mean, doing it OB in this way, in this era, as I understand, it would have been a massive undertaking because this is the way they filmed, you know, sports things.

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I mean, they'd have massive. have to be trucks and huge vans and things, whereas film was so much easier because you just have a tripod and a film camera and a sound recorder.

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Is that right?

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My understanding is that there is a new set of cameras involved.

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So there is a technological innovation.

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And I think too, that it's possible that that enables us to have the two-part story as well.

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Well, the two-part story effectively is the location block of the what would have been a six-part arc in space.

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Yes, yeah. is essentially what it is.

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It's kind of like what JNT later does in seasons 24 through 26.

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Yeah We'll talk about that, I think, probably later on. due course.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I mean, the upside of it is that we're outside for a change, and I am a big fan of that, I think, I think Doctor Who is eventually better out of the studio and just generally better out of the studio.

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But unlike a lot of the other out of the studio things, whether they're on film or video.

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There are very, very few props here.

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You've got, okay, you've got the Centaurin ship.

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You've got the strange, stupid, crappy robot thing.

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You've got the Gaztax costumes and the sphere and the balls.

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But other than that, they're not casting a great deal of stuff.

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They're not building sets.

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I mean, the Santaran sphere thing is probably the most elaborate thing, isn't it?

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Yeah, and they had that lying around, presumably.

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I mean, they brought it by truck and sort of stuck it up on those. put together again because it'll be crumpled.

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I think the advantage of that being outside is if you're a kid in the playground the next day, you can.

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It's the sort of games that you would play with your mates would be that sort of running around and hiding behind rocks and, you know, kind of capturing each other and that kind of thing.

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So there's a lot there with, like you say, without a lot of props or special effects, you could just recreate as a kid.

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And they also use the location as a danger as well.

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So both Harry and the doctor falling down that pit, or crevasse or whatever it is, it's used as part of the story.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, the danger isn't just the Santaran.

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It's the location as well.

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It's kind of like a bit of an indoor boy as well.

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You think, well, yeah, that's like, that's a good reason not to go outside.

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And then there's all the background story stuff that you know as well that Tom Baker cracked his collarbone while he was making it and everyone was like really miserable and cold and uncomfortable throughout the whole thing as well.

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So it creates an inhospitable environment, I think, as well as the alien danger.

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I think too, just the sort of giant vistas and things.

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You know, it's a little bit like Jody's 1st series when they go to South Africa and all of a sudden you can see off into the distance for a change.

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And it's not something the Doctor Who gets to do very much.

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And here I think it is really effective.

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It is actually much different from anything else that we've ever seen.

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Yeah, it's not a quarry.

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It's not a lush green field, sort of forest.

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I mean, maybe the people who made time flight could have learnt something from this.

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Yeah, no, it is.

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I mean, it is sort of surprising.

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I have a feeling, though, that although, you know, we've got a pit to fall down and stuff like that.

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Part of the problem with the production is that it's a little bit light on actual incident.

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There's a lot of falling into holes and sort of clambering out of holes.

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There's kind of wandering from place to place and running into people.

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It is an example of one of those stories where, and for reasons which I might touch on later, because it didn't always get repeated in Australia with the regular repeat run.

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But it's not just that I often feel even with this time having watched it.

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I sort of, 5 minutes afterwards, I kind of struggle to explain what I've just watched in terms of what's happened.

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It's not a great deal.

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It's just a bit of stuff.

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And maybe that's okay.

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Maybe for 2 weeks we can we can tolerate that.

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There's certainly a lot of incident in all of the rest of the stories this season.

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But there is a very definite change of pace, isn't there?

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There's a lot of kind of wandering around the location which is watchable in a way that just wandering around television centre one.

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Or an abandoned hospital.

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Yes, your patient time.

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And so as usual, we have an end of part one monster reveal, and that's something that we've already been revealed in the opening credits.

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Yes.

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Well, yes.

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No, that's true.

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Bad me, HS insin, yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.

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See also, you know, death to the Daleks and everything since then.

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Genesis of the Daleks.

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Revenge of the Cyberman.

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Yeah, yeah.

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They're yet to come, admittedly, but yes, they have been revealed.

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I wonder how much recognition the Santarian name would have had at this point, though, because they're not in the title of the Time Warrior.

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And, you know, would people remember the name links more?

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I mean, obviously we can't, we can't know at that point.

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But I wonder how many people would recognise the face, but not the name of the Sun Tyrans, having seen them a year earlier?

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I think that the monster revealed at the end of the episode is like a tradition for a reason.

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And you've only got one cliffhanger.

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And so I guess that's why you do it here.

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We talked about the monster reveal in Dalek Invasion of Earth, which obviously doesn't have Daleks in the title, despite what it says on our Blu-ray disc. is kind of revealed by the radio Times cover, though.

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Yes, I think so. which I believe was that week.

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You were there waiting for the Daleks to appear.

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And he had to wait till the very end.

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They made you watch the whole thing.

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But what they did do was introduce a crappy secondary monster. to kind of while away the time before they turn.

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Oh, talking about the Roman.

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Well, both.

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But also, no, not the slither, because this is later on.

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I'm talking about the rover man.

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Oh, sorry.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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But we do the same thing in Earthshock.

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Obviously, we have the secondary...

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I pretend Cyberman, yes.

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Yeah, exactly.

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We have the sort of secondary alien and then the big reveal at the end of part one.

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It's not that successful, is it?

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The reveal or the crappy...

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No, it's a bit, it's a bit wobbly and it's a bit crappy, but having said that, I think the direction is such that it hides it as best it can.

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And so I think, you know, it's okay.

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There are far worse sins, for goodness sake.

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No, no, no, that's fair.

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There's some directors that would have shown the base of it and shown it moving along and they always avoid that.

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They always have some foliage or something, don't they, covering the base of it.

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So it could be flying for all we know, I suppose, which would be quite cool.

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I mean, they'd have to put something in the dialogue to say, there's a flying robot move around, but it's at least they make that effort to not show you that it's run along on wheels.

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And it is like, I think they probably want to get away from that it being a man in a costume as well.

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And it does, you know, it does get away from that.

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And I think the ropes are the kind of the metallic kind of manacles, whatever that come out of it.

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They do look pretty good and they use that sports action replay thing, didn't they, to create that effect.

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I think when the robot is dragging like 3 men along, you can sort of, and they're acting in such a way that they're being compelled along.

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I think that does work pretty well, actually, that they're selling it to some extent.

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How did it get around?

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I mean, presumably there aren't sort of cracks for it.

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They did put tracks down.

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Right, right.

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They'd have to take on that heather.

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That's why I shot from blow.

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Is it one of those things that they built this wonderful thing, took it on location and then realised that it couldn't move more than a few centimetres?

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So it also has the distinction of being the source of the sound that I use on 500-year diary and now Flight through Entirety to bleep any swear words that turn up.

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Then there's a problem with the story.

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Isn't there?

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Because we don't see Stire until halfway through the thing.

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I mean, if it was in the modern era, the star would be revealed, you know, just before the opening credits of a modern episode.

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And I don't want to get on my hobby horse now about how long Doctor Who Story should be in the 21st century.

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But I think this is yet another example, and in total, there are one, two, three, four, five, 6 of them, that I think demonstrate that classic Doctor Who, I think, is rarely successful as a two-passer, because the whole way stories are built in the classic era means that whether it's the monster reveal at the end of part one or whether it's just the pace that things can happen and the fact that, you know, you need to have a certain pattern because you can only afford so many sets and so many casts and so on and so on.

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You just end up with a somewhat unsatisfying story.

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And, you know, I like the Awakening and I like Kings Demons and I, even like Black Orchid, Brendan.

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But, but, I mean, and the rescue does its thing because it's kind of just introducing Vicky and the episodes run into each other so extortive, okay, and age of destruction.

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But fundamentally, you just don't get satisfied with the story because not enough can possibly happen.

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In fact, I think maybe the rescue is the best one because it has a very limited remit.

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It is just there.

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It's not a full-on adventure or anything like that.

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It's just there to introduce Vicky.

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And so it knows exactly how much to put in.

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The others tend to have an episode one and then an episode 4 and then we're done and that's part of the problem.

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Well, I, maybe, I worry that they have an episode one and an episode two, and just as they're about to get interesting, it stops.

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I mean, I won't belabour the point.

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And I know, Nathan, you're not a fan of the expression of if only it was longer, it'd be so much better.

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But if I can, if I can observe, and I know we're not talking about these stories now, and I don't, I don't know what you do to some entire experiment per se, but in the case of, say, um, kings demons, imagine what kings demons could be like if you have episode one basically as it is.

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And then when comedians revealed in episode two, then the master, at the sort of the 3 quarter market, that episode whisks comedian off, and they head to London, and everyone has to go to London where we get to meet the real King John, and there's a kind of a doppelganger thing, and it all, you know, with comedian.

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But the point is, you would get to the end of the story and even if at the end of a four-part king's damage, you'd think, well, that was pretty terrible.

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I think it would make a more meaningful Doctor Who story.

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And I think that's what happens here.

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The rescue...

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One of the things about the King's Demons is, though, it's over quite quickly, right?

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Yes, yes.

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That's strong point.

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No, there's much I like about things.

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My point is, you need more stuff to happen.

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You need more escape recapture escape recapture in a classic story for it to feel like you've actually had an adventure.

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I think it's why I kind of have the opinion that 3 is the perfect length, in fact, because it doesn't sort of wear me out.

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We don't have to lock the doctor up for a whole episode.

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You know, there's we have enough... we'll talk about that to be getting on with.

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Yeah.

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And I mean, it's the same problem with black orchid, isn't it?

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You get the actual murder happen halfway through the whodunit. you know, and then everything else is sort of really kind of horribly rushed.

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Here, I think they're not tempted to try and cram too much in.

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That's not the problem.

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There might, in fact, be not quite enough to fill the 2nd episode.

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Well, I think it's that problem.

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I mean, you're restricted by the fact that you're all in location and this specific location.

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You've got a certain set of characters.

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I mean, what else can you possibly do?

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The only way this story is expanded into more episodes is if they then go somewhere else, like, for instance, go back to Nerva Beacon, spend more time torturing Sarah Jane.

195
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It's much better, Sarah Jane torture later.

196
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As it is, the doctor gets knocked out twice in the 1st episode, doesn't it?

197
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That's quite a lot in 25 minutes.

198
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So, I'm a massive fan of The Time Warrior.

199
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And I wasn't as a kid, but I really, really like it.

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It's Bob Holmes, obviously.

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I think maybe it was Sandra who 1st pointed out that the doctor faces another alien scientific advisor to a military organisation.

202
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And so the great thing about links is that he's a bit like the doctor, you know, he's helping out this group of people whom he regards as more primitive than he.

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And and links is funny.

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That script is funny.

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David Dacre is funny and it links is kind of hilarious.

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Even the helmet reveal at the end of episode one, where it's revealed that he's got a big round helmet and there's a big round hair under it, like it's always a tongue.

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Like all of that's actually properly funny.

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And then the whole thing is silly.

209
00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:02.820
You know, we're making stink bombs and all of that.

210
00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:04.919
It's very light and very funny.

211
00:16:04.980 --> 00:16:06.659
We make fun of Sarah, all of that.

212
00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:07.980
Like, I think it's a really great story.

213
00:16:08.039 --> 00:16:08.879
It's light.

214
00:16:08.940 --> 00:16:10.740
I wouldn't say funny. say it's witty.

215
00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:14.340
It treats itself seriously even though there are amusing things going on.

216
00:16:14.460 --> 00:16:15.419
It's charming.

217
00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:16.200
It's charming.

218
00:16:16.259 --> 00:16:17.100
It's more than charming.

219
00:16:17.159 --> 00:16:18.840
I think it's great It's got something for everybody.

220
00:16:18.899 --> 00:16:24.720
I do think I think homes, because famously homes didn't want to write something said in the past.

221
00:16:24.779 --> 00:16:25.440
Oh, really?

222
00:16:25.500 --> 00:16:30.000
And so he just made absolutely no attempt to find out when it might be set.

223
00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:33.360
You know, anything about that.

224
00:16:33.419 --> 00:16:35.700
It's like it's set in mediaeval land.

225
00:16:35.759 --> 00:16:37.679
Yeah, you know, it's Merry Island.

226
00:16:38.279 --> 00:16:39.299
See, Sarah Jane's right.

227
00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:39.960
Yeah.

228
00:16:40.019 --> 00:16:43.139
It's a big, you know, Renaissance fair kind of thing.

229
00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:44.159
Yeah, yeah.

230
00:16:44.279 --> 00:16:48.899
Yeah, so like that's really fun. and then suddenly here we are.

231
00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:52.080
And this is really... very dry.

232
00:16:52.139 --> 00:16:53.639
Yeah, very dry.

233
00:16:53.759 --> 00:16:56.100
I love the time worry as well.

234
00:16:56.159 --> 00:17:00.899
And I saw it a long time before the Santarian experiment, I think, and it was, you know, a kid.

235
00:17:00.960 --> 00:17:02.700
What, do you watch things over and over again?

236
00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:07.019
So that that kind of set, I think the Santarans, for me, in my mind.

237
00:17:07.079 --> 00:17:16.859
And like you say, it is hilarious and the whole idea that Robert Holmes had, or wouldn't it be funnier for, like you say, an alien lifted his helmet off and his head was exactly the same shape.

238
00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:18.539
Links is hilarious.

239
00:17:18.599 --> 00:17:24.059
When he says to iron grown, oh, you've got a binary reproduction system, it's very inefficient, you should change it.

240
00:17:24.119 --> 00:17:26.339
That old stuff is really, really funny.

241
00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:43.980
And I think this is why I don't really get the criticisms in the modern era that sometimes when people say, oh, they've just been turned into a joke, that, you know, they're not scary anymore, they're not funny, I think, but their origins were, that they were, they were exaggerated military people to the point of, of, of comicness.

242
00:17:44.039 --> 00:17:53.640
But I think maybe the people that were more familiar with the same town experiment who were around that age think, no, they're very serious, scary, they're torturers and everything else, and they want that model more.

243
00:17:53.700 --> 00:17:54.839
And it's interesting.

244
00:17:54.900 --> 00:18:11.460
The behind the scenes, this, you talk about how Robert Holmes gave loads of information to Baker and Martin about the Centaurans and talked all about the history and the culture and how they reproduce and everything, but the thing that he doesn't seem to have mentioned to them is, oh, and they are hilarious as well.

245
00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:15.420
You know, they, uh, they say stupid things and and and it's really funny.

246
00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:18.599
So that's the big thing that's lost, I think.

247
00:18:18.660 --> 00:18:19.859
I'm not sure.

248
00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:22.319
Like, links isn't stupid, though, is he?

249
00:18:22.380 --> 00:18:31.440
I mean, I guess, you know, there's that hilarious moment where he plants the flag in mediaeval England and it's like a stupid big flag, the extra flags come out.

250
00:18:31.500 --> 00:18:36.420
Like, so yes, there is, you know, there is that sort of comic stuff at his expense.

251
00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:38.400
But mostly he's fairly straightforward.

252
00:18:38.460 --> 00:18:43.019
We do get much sillier, Sontarin's stike and vaal.

253
00:18:43.079 --> 00:18:46.079
The next time that they're written by Bob Holmes.

254
00:18:46.140 --> 00:18:47.880
They're preposterous.

255
00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:49.619
They're different preposterous.

256
00:18:49.680 --> 00:19:05.039
Look, I think that the Stike and Vall ones are still, they can't, look, it's like the, it's like the classic Disney thing where Disney films are, the good, the best Disney films are made so that the kids laugh and are frightened by the villains and all that sort of stuff.

257
00:19:05.099 --> 00:19:08.940
But the parents have all of these jokes throughout that they to experience.

258
00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:13.200
And I think what Robert Holmes does in the time war and in the 2 doctors is exactly the same thing.

259
00:19:13.259 --> 00:19:15.539
The kids are, oh, isn't that scariest on Tara.

260
00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:20.279
Despite the stupid flag thing and all this stuff, he talks about reproductive genders and that sort of stuff.

261
00:19:20.339 --> 00:19:21.599
It was Sarah Jane's breast.

262
00:19:21.660 --> 00:19:22.259
Exactly.

263
00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:22.859
Exactly.

264
00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:32.039
Whereas that goes completely over the head of kids who find him a frightening, vile looking monster, whereas the parents who are watching with the chick kid goes, my God, this is hilarious.

265
00:19:32.099 --> 00:19:34.559
Yeah, and not to mention the field marshal's breasts as well.

266
00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:39.720
Most of the best Doctor Who does that Disney thing.

267
00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:44.880
But for that to work, it needs to be played straight, even though it's funny.

268
00:19:44.940 --> 00:19:45.660
Do you know what I mean?

269
00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:53.519
And that's why Time Warrior, and for me, 2 doctors work very, very well with that sort of underlying humour, even though darkly comics.

270
00:19:53.579 --> 00:19:54.059
Exactly.

271
00:19:54.119 --> 00:19:54.539
Yeah.

272
00:19:54.599 --> 00:19:59.519
So what do we think about the tone of this one then?

273
00:19:59.819 --> 00:20:02.940
It is pretty bleak to match the weather.

274
00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:05.160
I think it's actually too bleak.

275
00:20:05.220 --> 00:20:14.339
It's very dry, and you don't get the lightness that you do get in arc in space, and certainly your range of the sidemen, and Genesis even, there are lighter touches with the doctor.

276
00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:16.200
I think whilst the doctor has some funny moments.

277
00:20:16.259 --> 00:20:18.240
The whole thing just feels much more depressing.

278
00:20:18.299 --> 00:20:21.059
See, I thought you were just talking about his makeup.

279
00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:22.500
It's very dry.

280
00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:24.000
Toms.

281
00:20:24.059 --> 00:20:24.599
No.

282
00:20:24.599 --> 00:20:26.099
No star.

283
00:20:26.220 --> 00:20:28.500
The mask is just...

284
00:20:28.500 --> 00:20:29.640
Looks like papier mache.

285
00:20:29.700 --> 00:20:32.400
So let's talk about the mask.

286
00:20:32.460 --> 00:20:34.859
Kevin Lindsay had panic attacks, I think.

287
00:20:34.920 --> 00:20:35.819
Is that right?

288
00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:41.279
In the mask or at least found it really, really constricting and unpleasant to wear.

289
00:20:41.460 --> 00:20:44.700
And so they make a lighter mask.

290
00:20:44.819 --> 00:20:49.019
Making it completely different to virtually every other mask that Doctor Who actors have been told.

291
00:20:49.079 --> 00:20:49.920
That's right.

292
00:20:49.980 --> 00:20:50.759
That's right.

293
00:20:50.819 --> 00:20:53.339
Don't the only sidemen get screwed into the game?

294
00:20:53.400 --> 00:20:56.700
I think they're even being screwed in in the 1980s, actually.

295
00:20:56.759 --> 00:20:59.579
So there's that.

296
00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:01.019
And it's clearly not.

297
00:21:01.740 --> 00:21:15.539
We talked, we talked in the moon base about whether the cyberman had been redesigned or not, or whether we were supposed to understand that they always looked like they did in the moon base, and we're going to forget how they looked in the 10th planet.

298
00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:31.799
Here, we're encouraged to feel the same way because Sarah just assumes that that's links and says in dialogue that they look identical and Styer confirms that, yes, you know, we're alike, but not the same, we are identical, we're clones.

299
00:21:31.859 --> 00:21:34.559
And the mask is.

300
00:21:36.180 --> 00:21:42.000
Remember that Edmund Warwick looked exactly like, you know, the robot doctor looked exactly like the doctor in the chase.

301
00:21:42.059 --> 00:21:45.900
It kind of, I mean, 10th planet and Moonbase is a little bit different.

302
00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:46.680
And yes, I agree.

303
00:21:46.740 --> 00:21:51.599
We were just supposed to think that this is what the Sidemen of Warriors looked like, and I think that's the way the Sidemen have always been all the way through.

304
00:21:51.660 --> 00:21:53.519
Polly recognises them, of course.

305
00:21:53.579 --> 00:21:54.420
Exactly, exactly.

306
00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:56.940
But you've changed your opinion. any of that.

307
00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:01.440
And in fact, that's the kind of kind of television that I sort of prefer.

308
00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:09.779
Like in the modern era, because of, you know, they expect people to have seen them again or in different orders or whatever, they have to come up with some kind of in universe reason as to why they look different.

309
00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:13.019
In fact, it's Moffat that does that more than Russell.

310
00:22:13.079 --> 00:22:16.380
So Russell sets a look for the monsters and just goes with it.

311
00:22:16.500 --> 00:22:18.900
Takes the approach that they've always looked like that.

312
00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:21.960
Whereas Moffatt minds the history of the show.

313
00:22:22.019 --> 00:22:23.759
I'm not just talking about Doctor Who.

314
00:22:23.819 --> 00:22:29.400
I'm talking about like everything like, I mean, one of my favourite lines in whichever Star Trek episode it was where...

315
00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:30.839
Well, where they show the old Klingons.

316
00:22:30.839 --> 00:22:31.559
Yeah, yeah.

317
00:22:31.559 --> 00:22:33.359
Golf just says we don't like to talk about that.

318
00:22:33.420 --> 00:22:38.940
Because Star Trek is one of those things that did take that kind of thing very seriously in terms of this is the way it looks.

319
00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:45.599
You know, how, you know, it's practically that style on this thing of they'd have to have retouch all the old photos. consistent.

320
00:22:45.660 --> 00:22:49.920
Anyway, point being though, it doesn't matter how different the mask looks within reason.

321
00:22:49.980 --> 00:22:52.319
It's supposed to look the same, so it looks the same.

322
00:22:52.380 --> 00:22:52.920
Okay?

323
00:22:52.980 --> 00:22:55.259
We just, we'll all believe it if we say it often enough.

324
00:22:55.319 --> 00:22:57.119
And that's what you would have done as a child.

325
00:22:57.180 --> 00:22:58.019
You haven't seen it.

326
00:22:58.079 --> 00:23:08.579
I didn't know where the time war was repeated in the UK, but even here, if you're watching, we're watching a kind of a run of repeats stripped 4 nights away, it's still a couple of months between 3 months between the 2 stories.

327
00:23:09.480 --> 00:23:18.000
And, you know, it's only in the discussion about this story and now that we're talking about how different the mask is, that's made me realise how different the mask is, because I'd never really thought about it.

328
00:23:18.059 --> 00:23:21.599
So he is wearing the same outfit, literally the same outfit, is it?

329
00:23:21.660 --> 00:23:22.019
Oh, is it?

330
00:23:22.019 --> 00:23:24.960
And Sarah could just be racist and think they all look the same.

331
00:23:25.019 --> 00:23:25.380
Exactly.

332
00:23:25.380 --> 00:23:27.960
That's correct for the era.

333
00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:36.960
So there are problems with there's problems with the original mask apart from how uncomfortable it was to wear.

334
00:23:37.079 --> 00:23:45.599
And one problem is that you have rubber over Lindsay's top lip, which is sometimes kind of painfully apparent.

335
00:23:45.660 --> 00:23:48.839
And so he has difficulty delivering his dialogue.

336
00:23:48.900 --> 00:23:56.220
And you've got the thing where his lower lip is exposed. not covered in the latex mask and it's got the hair on it as well.

337
00:23:56.279 --> 00:24:02.400
But the great thing about that mask is that it is slimy or sweaty.

338
00:24:02.460 --> 00:24:03.720
But do you know what I mean?

339
00:24:03.779 --> 00:24:07.980
It glistens slightly and so it looks more like flesh than what we get here.

340
00:24:08.039 --> 00:24:10.200
It's maybe just been spritzed before each tape.

341
00:24:10.259 --> 00:24:11.819
Yes, I think that that's what's happening.

342
00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:15.539
And so it looks a little bit more kind of organic and real.

343
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:22.140
This one has the same sort of thing, which is he seems to have sort of interior and exterior lips.

344
00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:29.880
So the mask has lips and he has lips and his lips makes the other lips move, but then...

345
00:24:29.940 --> 00:24:30.660
Do you know what I mean?

346
00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:32.279
Like, it's much better.

347
00:24:32.339 --> 00:24:34.140
It's significantly worse.

348
00:24:34.619 --> 00:24:37.559
The same problem occurs in the 2 doctors with Styke and V.

349
00:24:37.740 --> 00:24:43.859
But also, um, in the visitation with the Terreleptils, they have the same problem as well.

350
00:24:43.859 --> 00:24:46.559
With the sort of flapping out, flappy mouth.

351
00:24:46.619 --> 00:24:47.339
Yeah, yeah.

352
00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:50.039
Yeah, it's just evidently stuck onto somebody's chest.

353
00:24:50.099 --> 00:24:50.519
His chin.

354
00:24:50.579 --> 00:24:51.240
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

355
00:24:51.299 --> 00:24:51.599
Yeah.

356
00:24:51.660 --> 00:24:53.099
I mean, I think that looks okay.

357
00:24:53.160 --> 00:24:55.799
I think the more it looks like a person's lips.

358
00:24:55.859 --> 00:24:56.460
Do you know what I mean?

359
00:24:56.519 --> 00:24:57.779
Because it's a big lizard head.

360
00:24:57.779 --> 00:25:00.480
We can kind of cope with that with the tarot lamp tools.

361
00:25:00.539 --> 00:25:02.460
And certainly Styke and Varl have the same problem.

362
00:25:02.519 --> 00:25:19.559
And I think that the problem is really only solved in the new series when they come back because you have the latex that can stick very closely onto the actor's skin because here and like the Santarians generally have problems around the eyes as well.

363
00:25:19.619 --> 00:25:23.220
You know, like the rubber, like is not really great.

364
00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:38.880
And remember that when they do Davros in the next story, he doesn't have eyes, so the problem's solved and they do that thing where they let the contours of his sort of chin define the part of the makeup that's not hidden by the mask.

365
00:25:38.940 --> 00:25:48.180
And in fact, Davros is, I think, as a kind of monster makeup job. kind of the, well, maybe the Draconians.

366
00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:49.380
Do you know what I mean?

367
00:25:49.440 --> 00:25:55.799
But, but allowing the mouth, you know, perch, you're saying the thing you see the actor's eyes and...

368
00:25:55.859 --> 00:25:56.279
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

369
00:25:56.339 --> 00:25:58.259
I mean, having just had the seeds of death last week.

370
00:25:58.319 --> 00:26:04.799
I mean, basically having a monster whose voice comes out at the same rate as its lips move is, I think, an achievement.

371
00:26:04.859 --> 00:26:06.960
Some of what we saw there.

372
00:26:08.700 --> 00:26:16.680
And you know, yeah, that thing of using the music, however, it's obscured by like a funky moustache or whatever else it is.

373
00:26:16.740 --> 00:26:22.500
I mean, even right up to the cryons in attack of the sidemen, you've got the kind of the crystalline moustaches on those ladies.

374
00:26:22.500 --> 00:26:27.480
On those ladies hiding, hiding the break between the mask and the mouth.

375
00:26:27.539 --> 00:26:29.279
But you just sort of accept that, I think.

376
00:26:29.339 --> 00:26:30.359
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

377
00:26:30.420 --> 00:26:34.259
So that's why I think, you know, like the modern series manages to...

378
00:26:34.259 --> 00:26:38.579
Yeah, that's 40 years... 40 years of technology and budget improvement.

379
00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:39.119
Yes, exactly.

380
00:26:45.180 --> 00:26:49.380
So what do we think about the gal sex and they're mainly South African accents?

381
00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:56.160
I think, again, this is one of those Doctor Who stories where everyone's a man except for Liz, which is kind of tedious.

382
00:26:56.819 --> 00:27:00.599
And everyone kind of looks roughly the same.

383
00:27:00.660 --> 00:27:05.579
I'm astounded by how rough poor old Glyn Jones looks.

384
00:27:05.640 --> 00:27:09.059
He looks like he's in desperate need of good night's sleep.

385
00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:10.680
Hairbrush.

386
00:27:10.740 --> 00:27:13.380
Yeah, yeah, but they all need a good sort of hairbrush and stuff.

387
00:27:13.440 --> 00:27:21.839
I mean, there's something about that whole sort of setup, which I actually really like, and we'll get onto it because I think we might talk a little bit more broadly about the season.

388
00:27:21.900 --> 00:27:32.880
But we're in the same time period, we're just a little bit, you know, we're just a few 1000 miles away or 1000000s of miles away from where we were.

389
00:27:33.180 --> 00:27:35.519
Yeah, yeah, with virus.

390
00:27:35.579 --> 00:27:37.559
She's still up there waiting for us to sort of come back.

391
00:27:37.619 --> 00:27:43.680
And so hearing more about the earth and all of that, I think, is kind of interesting.

392
00:27:43.740 --> 00:27:49.140
And you remember she talked about some of the colonies being full of regressives or whatever.

393
00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:50.759
That's clearly these people.

394
00:27:51.720 --> 00:27:52.799
Well, obviously.

395
00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:55.319
They don't talk posh, you know, the way that Byron.

396
00:27:55.440 --> 00:27:55.920
No, I do.

397
00:27:55.980 --> 00:28:00.599
Hasn't gone to a real university. went to a polytechnic.

398
00:28:00.660 --> 00:28:01.440
Exactly.

399
00:28:01.500 --> 00:28:03.599
That helps with the contrast, I think, though.

400
00:28:03.660 --> 00:28:04.859
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

401
00:28:04.920 --> 00:28:05.220
Yeah, yeah.

402
00:28:05.279 --> 00:28:19.559
I mean, it's that thing that, remember, things are coded throughout this era, not just Doctor Who, just through everything, in that different accents imply different things about you, whether you're educated or not, whether you're rich or not, or whether you're nice or not.

403
00:28:19.619 --> 00:28:24.839
And I don't know when does when do we start throwing sanctions on South Africa?

404
00:28:24.900 --> 00:28:29.279
Uh, is it, has it happened by 1975 or, is that yet to come?

405
00:28:29.339 --> 00:28:30.420
They'll have the 80s.

406
00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:33.180
I mean, it was being talked about, but it's a question of how aggressively.

407
00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:45.839
So it is nevertheless a good way to sort of imply that these people are, you know, not as sophisticated as the space station would just come from, where everything's, you know, gleaming white, nice tunics and everything's colour coded on the lapels and so on.

408
00:28:45.900 --> 00:28:50.640
Well, in fact, they have a kind of beef about the people on nerva that they haven't helped.

409
00:28:50.700 --> 00:28:52.559
They've been lying there asleep doing nothing.

410
00:28:52.680 --> 00:28:57.059
We've been struggling and we've built an empire and they haven't done anything.

411
00:28:57.119 --> 00:29:02.519
And so there is a kind of, you know, almost class-like resentment there.

412
00:29:02.579 --> 00:29:06.000
So I guess giving them those accents is actually pretty good.

413
00:29:06.119 --> 00:29:16.200
And I think maybe they would have been reluctant to just give regional or working class accents to spacemen in Doctor Who in 1975.

414
00:29:16.500 --> 00:29:19.079
And so they went for South African accents instead.

415
00:29:19.140 --> 00:29:21.180
Well, it makes it a bit that little bit more exotic.

416
00:29:21.240 --> 00:29:22.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

417
00:29:22.440 --> 00:29:22.859
Yeah.

418
00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:31.319
And the rationale behind it was that they just thought that the language would have changed and pronunciation was that was Bob Baker and Dave Martin's. rationale, I think.

419
00:29:31.380 --> 00:29:32.700
Oh, it actually comes from them.

420
00:29:32.759 --> 00:29:33.180
Wow, okay.

421
00:29:33.180 --> 00:29:34.920
Yeah, that they wanted.

422
00:29:34.980 --> 00:29:37.740
You know, like when they did that emergency exit thing.

423
00:29:37.799 --> 00:29:39.960
Is it the invisible enemy where it's spelt phonetically?

424
00:29:40.019 --> 00:29:50.759
So it's kind of an interest of theirs anyway, and they thought that, I think, because South African, the accent comes from a mixture of English and German and Dutch and things like that.

425
00:29:50.819 --> 00:29:51.059
Yeah.

426
00:29:51.660 --> 00:29:58.799
It's kind of a bit of a melting pot of different accents than they thought that, you know, over time that's that's how things would progress.

427
00:29:58.859 --> 00:30:04.920
And then they put in the, you understand and kind of shortening of words and things like that to suggest it.

428
00:30:04.980 --> 00:30:07.859
I suppose while still making it understandable for the audience.

429
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:09.720
So I think it works like that.

430
00:30:09.779 --> 00:30:11.819
But it is a nice change not to have RPI.

431
00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:14.160
Yeah, there's some slang and stuff like that.

432
00:30:14.220 --> 00:30:19.799
Yeah, going bush, which just sounded like Australian slang to me, but he's going bush, and it did mean he's gone crazy.

433
00:30:19.859 --> 00:30:22.019
Post from the Vietnam War, I think, yeah.

434
00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:22.859
Ah, yeah, okay.

435
00:30:22.920 --> 00:30:23.640
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

436
00:30:23.700 --> 00:30:26.400
There's enough sort of world building there.

437
00:30:26.519 --> 00:30:33.779
I mean, they're just basically aware to give someone to torture, I guess, but there's sort of enough world building there, I think.

438
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:35.579
And it does seem satisfying.

439
00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:39.420
But we are in a situation that's impossible to imagine 2 years ago.

440
00:30:39.480 --> 00:30:41.279
Like, it's impossible.

441
00:30:41.339 --> 00:30:42.119
Meaning in season 10.

442
00:30:42.299 --> 00:30:46.799
Yeah, well, I just can't imagine someone like torturing Joe Grant.

443
00:30:46.859 --> 00:30:48.119
Do you know what I mean?

444
00:30:48.180 --> 00:30:49.380
Like doing that to her.

445
00:30:49.440 --> 00:31:10.920
Now, here it's a kind of sort of, it's sort of a space torturer and staff, but it's a problem in Doctor Who, I think, which is that as the performances get a little bit better, I think that there's a problem with, I don't want to watch prolonged scenes of the character's terrified or suffering.

446
00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:19.079
Well, not prolonged because in the same way that I don't enjoy prolonged sequences of action because it does get dull because there's no dialogue.

447
00:31:19.140 --> 00:31:19.619
So...

448
00:31:20.220 --> 00:31:21.960
But I think there's something like actively unpleasant.

449
00:31:22.019 --> 00:31:24.359
I find it like I just find it actively unpleasant.

450
00:31:24.420 --> 00:31:25.019
We've talked.

451
00:31:25.140 --> 00:31:35.759
I, you know, at length about Perry, for instance, on flight 3 entirety, and just how part of the problem with Caves of Andrazani is she's too credibly scared.

452
00:31:35.819 --> 00:31:38.759
And that it's sort of unpleasant.

453
00:31:38.819 --> 00:31:42.660
And here I think like you can't torture Joe, right?

454
00:31:42.779 --> 00:31:50.160
Because it's not something that we do, but we do torture Sarah, and it's a big feature of this season.

455
00:31:50.220 --> 00:31:55.319
But this story, which is just about someone who tortures people to death.

456
00:31:55.799 --> 00:32:00.359
She's not tortured, but she goes through some pretty horrific kinds of things.

457
00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:06.960
Genesis being thrown off the gantry. you know, like she's tormented, I suppose, walking.

458
00:32:07.019 --> 00:32:09.359
I mean, look, you may find it distressing.

459
00:32:09.420 --> 00:32:13.559
I found it absolutely gripping and exciting as a child and still do as an adult.

460
00:32:13.619 --> 00:32:20.880
And going back to that peri thing in case Van Design, I think that it is so good because she is so good and it's so truthful.

461
00:32:20.940 --> 00:32:22.140
It's just brilliant.

462
00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:23.579
It's a fantastic performance.

463
00:32:23.700 --> 00:32:26.279
So, look, if you don't like watching that sort of thing.

464
00:32:26.339 --> 00:32:28.799
That's fine, but I just think that it's outstanding.

465
00:32:28.859 --> 00:32:36.059
I don't have a problem with the alleged torture of Sarah throughout the Hinchcliffe era.

466
00:32:36.119 --> 00:32:40.380
She, I mean, obviously she's literally being tortured in this story for that sequence.

467
00:32:40.440 --> 00:32:43.980
As you said, it's kind of space torture because it's kind of a mental thing that should be put through.

468
00:32:44.039 --> 00:32:47.039
It's the guys that are being physically tortured.

469
00:32:47.099 --> 00:32:48.900
She's kind of being mentally tortured.

470
00:32:48.900 --> 00:32:49.799
Yeah, yeah.

471
00:32:49.920 --> 00:32:51.000
But that's the theme of the story.

472
00:32:51.059 --> 00:32:52.140
I mean, everyone's getting tortured.

473
00:32:52.200 --> 00:32:54.720
Yeah, I know, but then you just wonder whether that's the story that we do.

474
00:32:54.779 --> 00:32:56.460
There's a really, really terrible feeling.

475
00:32:56.579 --> 00:32:57.240
I don't think.

476
00:32:57.299 --> 00:33:00.359
You know, if I would have been in charge, this story wouldn't have happened.

477
00:33:00.420 --> 00:33:18.420
It's that it's, you know, there's a very quick succession in which Harry comes across what he thinks is the dead body of the doctor and the dead body of Sarah and then the dead body of the prisoner who's died of thirst, like just in quick succession and you kind of think, I'm not having as much fun here.

478
00:33:18.480 --> 00:33:21.720
I really think I should be having while watching documentaries.

479
00:33:21.779 --> 00:33:23.519
But interestingly, I'm not invested.

480
00:33:23.579 --> 00:33:27.539
I'm not invested in the same way because maybe because it's just not long enough.

481
00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:31.019
I hate to say, or maybe because it's just, there's just not enough other interesting things going on.

482
00:33:31.079 --> 00:33:38.700
I mean, there's great world building, as we've said, and it's fascinating and I think it's really well done and all the rest of it, but I just need more something, more stuff.

483
00:33:38.819 --> 00:33:50.460
But look, I think the performances do add credibility to what you're doing because the good thing is it doesn't seem stupid because everyone's actually doing a really good job.

484
00:33:50.579 --> 00:33:52.019
Yeah, yeah.

485
00:33:52.019 --> 00:33:53.279
So nothing seems silly.

486
00:33:53.339 --> 00:33:54.059
Yeah, yeah.

487
00:33:54.059 --> 00:34:00.420
You know, list slating can sell the mental torture thing very, very well, whereas perhaps some other companions might have struggled.

488
00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:03.299
Yes, I did like the inflatable rubber snake.

489
00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:05.700
Yeah, more of which in a few weeks time.

490
00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:09.960
Good thing she was selling it well because the snake didn't.

491
00:34:10.019 --> 00:34:11.280
It was all right.

492
00:34:20.340 --> 00:34:26.579
So we talked a little bit about the Santarans as a Doctor Who monster generally.

493
00:34:26.639 --> 00:34:28.199
Are they up there?

494
00:34:28.260 --> 00:34:31.139
Are they number three after the...

495
00:34:31.139 --> 00:34:39.900
See, for me, as a child, and even as an adult, the Zygons, I think, would be above this on Tyres, even though we only had the tear of the Zygons, is it?

496
00:34:39.960 --> 00:34:45.480
But I mean, as kind of something that we can pull out of the toy box and put on the screen every so often.

497
00:34:45.539 --> 00:34:50.579
I mean, we do have how many more Sontaran stories after this?

498
00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:52.559
In the classic year, just two.

499
00:34:52.559 --> 00:34:53.159
Two more.

500
00:34:53.159 --> 00:34:54.239
Age of time and 2 doctors.

501
00:34:54.300 --> 00:34:55.139
And 2 doctors, yeah.

502
00:34:55.199 --> 00:34:56.099
And in both.

503
00:34:56.159 --> 00:34:57.960
They're kind of add-ons.

504
00:34:58.019 --> 00:35:02.159
And I don't necessarily, well, maybe I do mean it in a bad way, in the invasion of time.

505
00:35:02.219 --> 00:35:06.719
But in 2 doctors, they're secondary to the main villains who are Cecini, who's the same.

506
00:35:06.719 --> 00:35:07.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

507
00:35:08.099 --> 00:35:14.460
And I see, so I think from that point of view, they do work as, and I think that's going back to the time warrior as well, one of the reasons the time warriors is good.

508
00:35:14.519 --> 00:35:16.800
Even though, yes, he is the alien and the villain.

509
00:35:16.860 --> 00:35:19.500
In some respects, he's secondary to iron gron.

510
00:35:19.559 --> 00:35:19.920
Yeah.

511
00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:23.639
And I think maybe the Santarians work better in that format.

512
00:35:23.699 --> 00:35:26.880
I mean, if you're talking about monsters to pull out of the draw.

513
00:35:26.940 --> 00:35:29.699
I mean, in some respects, we had the ice Warriors for a little bit.

514
00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:32.099
And now we've got the Santarans for a little bit.

515
00:35:32.219 --> 00:35:38.460
So you could say that they kind of segue into each other to fulfil, well, I mean, a comparable role.

516
00:35:38.519 --> 00:35:42.119
I mean, all Doctor Who villain monsters like that feel the same role, really.

517
00:35:42.179 --> 00:35:45.000
Yeah, they're both quite a martial race, aren't they?

518
00:35:45.059 --> 00:35:46.500
I suppose that's the...

519
00:35:46.500 --> 00:35:51.360
That's military. that the similarities, they've got kind of cords of honour and that kind of thing.

520
00:35:51.420 --> 00:35:53.699
And I suppose you have the boss got 4 appearances as well.

521
00:35:53.760 --> 00:36:00.900
I guess the thing about them is their pomposity, you know, that that's that kind of is what's funny.

522
00:36:00.960 --> 00:36:02.340
And that's what we go for.

523
00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:13.500
I think when we bring them back in that two-parter in series four, which I actually remember much more fondly than I thought of it at the time.

524
00:36:13.559 --> 00:36:15.059
And their fun there.

525
00:36:15.119 --> 00:36:19.920
And of course, you've got Christopher Ryan as our kind of hero, Santara, and that.

526
00:36:19.980 --> 00:36:33.239
And of course, Dan Starkey, who will go on to be a semi-regular character and in that Moffatt world where he literally is pulling his action figures kind of out of the box, isn't he?

527
00:36:33.300 --> 00:36:43.440
And he said, we're having a Silurian and we're having, you know, we're not having a Santarian story in the Moffat era, but we will have a Santarian character. and perhaps the best Santarian character, I think.

528
00:36:43.500 --> 00:36:45.000
Lynx is great.

529
00:36:45.059 --> 00:36:48.059
But Strax is fantastic.

530
00:36:48.119 --> 00:36:51.239
And even though he sort of goes on for a sort of long period of time.

531
00:36:51.300 --> 00:36:54.539
You know, he's being written by someone who is a sitcom writer.

532
00:36:54.599 --> 00:36:58.079
And so he can actually do kind of proper jokes and stuff.

533
00:36:58.139 --> 00:37:07.260
And I had long thought that that had kind of finished the Sontarus as a possible Doctor Who monster.

534
00:37:07.260 --> 00:37:09.539
And then we get the, and then we get...

535
00:37:09.599 --> 00:37:12.000
Yeah, which they are properly good, I think.

536
00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:12.659
I think they are too.

537
00:37:12.719 --> 00:37:21.719
And, I mean, you know, the whole premise of War of the Santarans, where it's the Crimean War, but no one's ever heard of the Russians we're fighting the Santarans.

538
00:37:21.780 --> 00:37:23.460
He's absolute genius.

539
00:37:23.519 --> 00:37:24.840
Like it's really terribly good.

540
00:37:24.900 --> 00:37:26.820
I can't remember how it all fists together.

541
00:37:26.880 --> 00:37:27.960
Maybe I'm not supposed to.

542
00:37:28.079 --> 00:37:45.539
I think the 21st century criticism of what they did, quote unquote, did to the Swansharians is the fact that I started finding them annoying at times when I felt that they were leaning just too heavily in on being just kind of Doctor Who Klingons in terms of the militaristic stuff and the honour and all that sort of thing.

543
00:37:45.539 --> 00:37:49.500
It was almost like there were too many lines directly lifted from various Star Treks.

544
00:37:49.559 --> 00:37:51.659
And I think that's that's certainly what annoyed me about it.

545
00:37:51.780 --> 00:37:56.400
Do you know, that's how I feel about the Ice Warriors in the new series, actually.

546
00:37:56.460 --> 00:37:59.340
It's very similar. very, very similar thing.

547
00:37:59.400 --> 00:38:02.219
I feel it's like, I don't feel we're being original here.

548
00:38:02.280 --> 00:38:10.800
I feel that the show is now leaning, trying to, and it's not borrowing from Star Trek or doing a prestigious Star Trek. just ripping it off. that's not the same thing.

549
00:38:10.920 --> 00:38:13.139
Or just kind of doing the obvious thing.

550
00:38:13.199 --> 00:38:14.699
It's almost like...

551
00:38:14.760 --> 00:38:15.900
Obviously, that's it, what it is.

552
00:38:15.960 --> 00:38:16.380
Yeah, yeah.

553
00:38:16.440 --> 00:38:16.920
That what it is.

554
00:38:16.980 --> 00:38:17.940
I agree.

555
00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:19.139
I love Strax as well.

556
00:38:19.199 --> 00:38:23.039
And his, and I know people get a bit tired of it, but I love it.

557
00:38:23.099 --> 00:38:33.840
The whole thing that whatever the situation or the problem is, his is a weapons-based solution or a military solution is grenades and things like that, no matter what domestic chore it is or anything.

558
00:38:33.900 --> 00:38:35.940
Yeah, I constantly find that hilarious.

559
00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:36.179
Yeah.

560
00:38:36.239 --> 00:38:39.719
It's interesting things that are in their origins that get left behind.

561
00:38:39.780 --> 00:38:46.679
So time travel is never a thing for them again after the, you know, the original, sorry, being the time warrior.

562
00:38:46.679 --> 00:38:51.000
They're not a big kind of time faring race, again.

563
00:38:51.059 --> 00:38:56.039
They don't use robots again after this, which I guess is understandable because the robot's not popular.

564
00:38:56.099 --> 00:39:00.900
Only the core of them remains and the stuff around them changes quite a lot, doesn't it?

565
00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:06.300
I'd never thought about that, but they're actually trying to get time travel in the 2 doctors.

566
00:39:06.360 --> 00:39:09.719
So how does that fit in with the Time Warrior?

567
00:39:09.780 --> 00:39:21.960
Well, there is a difference, I suppose, you could argue with a control time travel versus being able to nick a big head scientist from seven, 800 years in the future, maybe, somewhat inaccurately as well.

568
00:39:22.019 --> 00:39:23.099
Yeah.

569
00:39:27.719 --> 00:39:41.039
If I can just mention the Australian experience, at least the Australian experience for people of my vintage, as we all know as good Doctor Who fans, this story is shot before Arc in Space, yet meant to be shown afterwards.

570
00:39:41.099 --> 00:39:49.320
And a number of times when the ABC showed it, as was their want, they would show things in story code order rather than, oh, wow.

571
00:39:50.099 --> 00:39:53.460
So for instance, we got Mark of the Rani after 2 doctors, which works perfectly fine.

572
00:39:53.519 --> 00:39:54.300
Yeah, yeah.

573
00:39:54.420 --> 00:39:57.719
They only swapped it because they didn't want the two historical characters next to each other.

574
00:39:57.780 --> 00:40:01.079
Is that the same problem that we get with the Sylvester McCoy?

575
00:40:01.139 --> 00:40:07.019
Well, again, one could argue that with season 25, it's the UK that showed it in the wrong order.

576
00:40:07.079 --> 00:40:16.079
No, no, no, because there's the badge on Ace. that she doesn't get until Greater Show, which they show at the end, but she's already wearing it in the silver nemesis.

577
00:40:16.139 --> 00:40:18.960
And of course, that's just because it all gets delayed because of the Olympics.

578
00:40:18.960 --> 00:40:21.960
And J&T wanted Sylvan Nemesis to be on the anniversary.

579
00:40:22.019 --> 00:40:25.079
So the UK actually shows season 25 in the wrong order.

580
00:40:25.139 --> 00:40:35.579
But we get quite often in those repeats of the 625 line pertwees, we get carnival of monsters shown before 3 doctors because carnival's monsters is made before 3 doctors, et cetera.

581
00:40:35.639 --> 00:40:38.460
So the 1st time I saw Santarian experiment.

582
00:40:38.519 --> 00:40:39.599
It made no sense.

583
00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:44.880
Well, I'm trying to remember because I came in at Planet of the Smiters 2 on one of those repeat runs.

584
00:40:44.940 --> 00:40:52.079
And so entire experiment therefore becomes the 10th and 11th episodes of Doctor Who that I've ever seen.

585
00:40:52.139 --> 00:40:53.039
Oh, wow, okay.

586
00:40:53.099 --> 00:40:59.340
And yet, I have absolutely no memory of being confused by what's going on here, like anything about it just, it just kind of on.

587
00:40:59.400 --> 00:41:07.320
And it's extraordinary to think that I watched planned of the Spiders robots and Suntarian experiment and yet persevere with the show as my introduction.

588
00:41:07.320 --> 00:41:09.659
Because obviously it's sort of all uphill from there.

589
00:41:09.719 --> 00:41:11.760
But basically that happens a couple of times.

590
00:41:11.820 --> 00:41:15.780
And so the 1st 2 times I saw on Tyron Experiment, it was before Arc and Space.

591
00:41:15.840 --> 00:41:16.920
They get it right later.

592
00:41:16.980 --> 00:41:26.159
But interesting also what happens is that Santana experiment is kind of like a bit of a missing story for me because there are several repeat runs that the ABC does where they just skip it entirely.

593
00:41:26.159 --> 00:41:27.119
Wow.

594
00:41:27.119 --> 00:41:28.500
Because...

595
00:41:28.500 --> 00:41:29.699
They're showing 4 episodes.

596
00:41:29.820 --> 00:41:30.900
They're showing 4 episodes a week.

597
00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:40.260
But for some reason, the other combinations of stuff, you know, they need it to finish on a Thursday, because it was usually Monday to Thursday, um, and they needed tear of the Zygons 4 to finish the run or whatever it was.

598
00:41:40.320 --> 00:41:41.579
And it was so often during the 2nd 4th.

599
00:41:41.639 --> 00:41:43.619
Or Marx, the Mandragore before, was where they often ended too.

600
00:41:43.679 --> 00:41:49.739
That's why I have a very odd relationship with this story is I sort of mainly never short saw it in the right spot.

601
00:41:49.800 --> 00:42:18.780
And even when I did, I kind of forgot it immediately anyway, except for one thing, and that is Styles melting head at the end, which was one of those Doctor Who visions, sort of memories, which stuck with me for years and years and years, and it was probably one of those things that then sometime experiment wasn't shown for a while, and so then I was kind of waiting to see that moment, and I couldn't remember where it was, and so on, like, kind of like remembering, I remembered the multiple Mona Lisa's from City of Death, without trying to work out where it fit in with Doctor Who, because there

602
00:42:18.780 --> 00:42:19.860
was no novelisation.

603
00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:22.920
So I didn't even know where where the hell did he even see main leases?

604
00:42:22.980 --> 00:42:23.219
Anyway.

605
00:42:23.280 --> 00:42:26.699
I mean, that's a reasonable special effect, isn't it?

606
00:42:26.760 --> 00:42:27.780
It's great.

607
00:42:27.840 --> 00:42:28.619
It's not Kane.

608
00:42:28.679 --> 00:42:29.880
No.

609
00:42:29.880 --> 00:42:31.199
And it's not the heat.

610
00:42:31.199 --> 00:42:39.539
I would argue it's actually better than Kane, because Kane looks like it's a stop motion or a sped up bit of film where they've melted a thing, whereas this looks like a real stop.

611
00:42:39.599 --> 00:42:40.860
Well, it's done in camera, isn't it?

612
00:42:40.920 --> 00:42:43.920
It's just a balloon kind of deflating.

613
00:42:43.980 --> 00:42:44.880
I think it looks absolutely great.

614
00:42:44.940 --> 00:42:46.559
And it's very Wizard of Oz.

615
00:42:46.619 --> 00:42:55.619
It's sort of, you know, I think it's for a kid, for a kid, it's very effective as to why they're destroying the elemy. especially because then you see the whole suit is deflated as well.

616
00:42:55.679 --> 00:42:56.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

617
00:42:56.940 --> 00:42:58.079
It is pretty clever.

618
00:42:58.139 --> 00:43:03.719
The novelisation has quite a bit of Harry going through the endless, the tunnels and stuff.

619
00:43:04.139 --> 00:43:07.380
Well, yeah, I know, but it's him writing about here.

620
00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:08.940
It's him, right?

621
00:43:08.940 --> 00:43:10.800
Good on Ian, yes, well done.

622
00:43:10.860 --> 00:43:12.960
He needs to make that much more heroic.

623
00:43:13.019 --> 00:43:16.440
And that's actually with Ian just going back to the fact that, of course, there's a shot before. fucking space.

624
00:43:16.500 --> 00:43:22.800
Harry's character is much more, much more old-fashioned because he does actually soften throughout the season.

625
00:43:22.860 --> 00:43:25.079
He's kind of even softens during arc and space.

626
00:43:25.139 --> 00:43:26.940
I mean, he talks about giving her brandy at the beginning.

627
00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:30.119
Then he kind of softens, modernises a bit.

628
00:43:30.179 --> 00:43:34.559
Whereas he seems to have leapt back to where he was in robot, for some time experiment.

629
00:43:34.619 --> 00:43:35.519
Call her old thing.

630
00:43:35.579 --> 00:43:38.519
Exactly all the old things stuff, which she objects to, et cetera, et cetera.

631
00:43:38.579 --> 00:43:39.719
And of course, because it shot first.

632
00:43:39.780 --> 00:43:41.280
He's wonderful, isn't he?

633
00:43:41.340 --> 00:43:42.119
Oh, he's fantastic.

634
00:43:42.179 --> 00:43:44.460
I love I love this TARDIS combination.

635
00:43:44.519 --> 00:43:46.619
Dr. Sarah and Harry for me.

636
00:43:46.679 --> 00:43:53.699
Maybe it's just because that's what I got basically straight away from my 1st watching at the show, but I just think it works so well, the 3 of them.

637
00:43:53.820 --> 00:44:03.900
I mean, as an adult, I object to the Hinchcliffe era in some ways because I think it is actually too violent and too nasty and a bit too relentless.

638
00:44:03.960 --> 00:44:09.960
But like season 12 is like just this polished perfect thing, isn't it?

639
00:44:10.019 --> 00:44:10.739
It's amazing.

640
00:44:10.800 --> 00:44:12.179
It's so amazing.

641
00:44:12.239 --> 00:44:13.440
It really is good.

642
00:44:13.500 --> 00:44:16.079
It makes such a big change to Doctor Who.

643
00:44:16.139 --> 00:44:21.300
Robot is so different a show from revenge of the cyberman.

644
00:44:21.360 --> 00:44:24.420
And those 3 together are just so great.

645
00:44:24.480 --> 00:44:28.440
And you kind of forget how often Sarah's off running her own plot.

646
00:44:28.500 --> 00:44:31.079
And it's the doctor and Harry together.

647
00:44:31.139 --> 00:44:33.000
Although you often got Joe running her own plot.

648
00:44:33.059 --> 00:44:34.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

649
00:44:34.079 --> 00:44:36.599
But I mean, when you have 3 characters. you know what I mean?

650
00:44:36.659 --> 00:44:39.059
Like Sarah's often, it's the boys who are kind of together.

651
00:44:39.119 --> 00:44:42.539
But that's why I think 2 companion things, so the 3 regulars actually works really well.

652
00:44:42.599 --> 00:44:51.480
I do like the single companion, but I've always had a big soft spot for the 2 companions and I think you get it in season 12, probably the most perfectly.

653
00:44:51.539 --> 00:45:02.400
As you suggest, in Ark in Space, in Genesis of the Daleks, you get the doctor in Harry doing the thing while Sarah basically gets to have her, not so much B plot, but her sort of A2 plot.

654
00:45:02.460 --> 00:45:05.219
You know, it's acting as a co-lead.

655
00:45:05.280 --> 00:45:09.480
And so the Harry is kind of the doctor's companion for those bits.

656
00:45:09.539 --> 00:45:13.320
And likewise, in revenge of the side, and they're all doing their own bits and pieces.

657
00:45:13.320 --> 00:45:15.119
And then Sarah and Harry get being down.

658
00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:15.539
Which is what?

659
00:45:15.599 --> 00:45:21.719
and do their stuff and it's so intelligent and interesting and there is so much depth and thought.

660
00:45:21.780 --> 00:45:35.400
I feel put into how these characters are relating to the environments that they're in much more beyond the superficial, which you do start to get later in the series and you had earlier as well.

661
00:45:35.460 --> 00:45:43.980
But I think that they really care about what would these characters think if they were suddenly on the space station in the 30 something century.

662
00:45:44.039 --> 00:45:45.539
Oh, sorry, 1000s of years, Harry.

663
00:45:45.599 --> 00:45:46.199
Yes.

664
00:45:47.460 --> 00:45:55.440
And the whole tone of the season, too, is the season and the era is just so, it just epitomises for me, Doctor, at its most successful.

665
00:45:55.500 --> 00:46:05.219
It's the way as I should have touched on before, everyone's treating it seriously, that doesn't mean that there aren't funny moments and doesn't mean that there aren't lighter moments and funny lines and all the rest of it.

666
00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:13.559
But everyone from the directors to the writers to the actors, to the costume people, the stunt people, they're all treating it absolutely seriously.

667
00:46:13.619 --> 00:46:18.239
And that's how you get good, Doctor Who. giving it their all.

668
00:46:18.300 --> 00:46:20.519
Like they're all really committed.

669
00:46:20.579 --> 00:46:26.039
I think it also shows the breadth of what Doctor Who can do as well in a way.

670
00:46:26.099 --> 00:46:30.840
It's in some ways, it's similar to a modern Doctor Who season.

671
00:46:30.900 --> 00:46:32.880
It does a temporary story, it does.

672
00:46:32.940 --> 00:46:35.940
You know, it has outer space stories.

673
00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:37.800
It has, you know, future stories.

674
00:46:37.860 --> 00:46:42.239
Like it kind of shows the gamut of what you can do.

675
00:46:42.300 --> 00:46:47.579
Yeah, especially if you put Terror of the Zygons on as... which kind of is supposed to be.

676
00:46:47.639 --> 00:46:50.219
I mean, it sort of belongs in both seasons for me.

677
00:46:50.280 --> 00:46:54.000
I know robot is kind of a pertly leftover in a season of shot with season 11.

678
00:46:54.239 --> 00:46:58.800
But even if you include it from, you know, Robot through Terror of the Zygons, there is a difference.

679
00:46:58.860 --> 00:47:03.420
And you can see in season 11 how much the show has started to tire.

680
00:47:03.480 --> 00:47:07.199
And I'm very fond of a lot of season 11, which time war is great.

681
00:47:07.260 --> 00:47:08.340
Death of the Daleks is great.

682
00:47:08.400 --> 00:47:09.960
There are some of the dinosaurs.

683
00:47:10.019 --> 00:47:14.039
No, I like it. but even despite the fact that it's all wonderful and enjoyable.

684
00:47:14.099 --> 00:47:15.599
There is something about a sense.

685
00:47:15.719 --> 00:47:18.659
I don't know whether it's just because we know that the year is coming to an end or not.

686
00:47:18.719 --> 00:47:19.980
I don't think it's that.

687
00:47:20.039 --> 00:47:24.420
I just think there is a sense that things are beginning to tire out in terms of the format that we're using needs to be shaken up.

688
00:47:24.539 --> 00:47:25.739
Let's not talk about it.

689
00:47:25.800 --> 00:47:27.360
It's Monster of Paladon, isn't it?

690
00:47:31.500 --> 00:47:35.219
But again, I can't remember much about Monstra Belladon.

691
00:47:35.280 --> 00:47:37.800
I haven't watched such waiting for the season 11 box yet.

692
00:47:37.860 --> 00:47:39.780
Yeah, it is a terrific season.

693
00:47:39.900 --> 00:47:49.559
I think you can see why they chose it as the 1st one to release in the Blu-ray collection set in terms of if there are, you know, kind of new series viewers that hadn't seen the classic series.

694
00:47:49.619 --> 00:47:50.760
It's a great one.

695
00:47:50.880 --> 00:47:54.360
Before everything was available on the iPlayer, you know, this in the UK.

696
00:47:54.480 --> 00:48:00.780
This is a great one to get fans into the classic series because you've got a lot of recognisable monsters that they'll know from the modern series.

697
00:48:00.840 --> 00:48:04.320
And yeah, and it's quite transitional, isn't it?

698
00:48:04.380 --> 00:48:06.900
Because Barry Letts is still working on it and on some tone experiment.

699
00:48:06.960 --> 00:48:08.219
He was still around and stuff.

700
00:48:08.280 --> 00:48:19.980
And like you say, robot to tear the Zigons. kind of it's kind of bookended with 2 unit stories, but they've changed loads in that time, the tone of it and the characters and everything.

701
00:48:20.039 --> 00:48:23.519
And then they kind of leave all that behind as they go into season 13.

702
00:48:23.639 --> 00:48:30.780
Just to expand on what you're saying there, Mark, about this is what, you know, new viewers might come into.

703
00:48:30.840 --> 00:48:35.219
We're often asked, you know, if you had to show someone a classic story.

704
00:48:35.280 --> 00:48:36.000
What would it be?

705
00:48:36.059 --> 00:48:38.219
It's not the entire experiment.

706
00:48:38.280 --> 00:48:40.559
But it is so much of this era.

707
00:48:40.619 --> 00:48:55.920
You can so easily show them something like I can space or Genesis of the Darks or tear up the Zygons or much of the rest of the Hinchcliffe era and not be concerned about how poorly it might have aged from a production standards point of view.

708
00:48:55.980 --> 00:49:00.539
We can say other things about the fact that there are very few women in it, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

709
00:49:00.599 --> 00:49:05.940
But in terms of from what it looks like and what it feels like and how it seriously it's treated, it treats itself.

710
00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:12.119
You can't go past most of these stories in order to attract a new audience into the classic show.

711
00:49:12.179 --> 00:49:16.440
I mean, I think the pertoy era under Letts is pretty strong. absolutely.

712
00:49:16.500 --> 00:49:18.719
And it's not this at all.

713
00:49:18.780 --> 00:49:27.059
And it is a thing, I think, that, like, I'm not someone who thinks that the Hinchcliffe era is the core of what Doctor Who should be.

714
00:49:27.059 --> 00:49:34.380
And I do think that the Lets era is super important at defining that as well as sort of other later eras as well.

715
00:49:34.440 --> 00:49:48.900
But what strikes me is so strange as we go from like a story that has a mad scientist with massive puffy hair and like this sort of absurd performance and stuff and you've got the robot, which is sort of cheesy as hell and stuff.

716
00:49:48.960 --> 00:49:55.619
And then the next story, the aliens are going to eat you alive and steal your memories.

717
00:49:55.679 --> 00:49:58.260
The story after that, they're going to torture you to death.

718
00:49:58.320 --> 00:49:59.519
Do you know what I mean?

719
00:49:59.579 --> 00:50:02.219
Like you basically for fun, just basically to see...

720
00:50:02.219 --> 00:50:03.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

721
00:50:03.000 --> 00:50:03.599
It makes you tick.

722
00:50:04.260 --> 00:50:08.940
No, I'm just testing the compressibility of the human chest.

723
00:50:08.940 --> 00:50:10.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

724
00:50:10.079 --> 00:50:15.360
Like all of that stuff is so, it's so amazing. such a weird change in tone.

725
00:50:15.420 --> 00:50:19.199
And I get, like, I kind of get some of the backlash.

726
00:50:19.260 --> 00:50:26.400
I sort of understand it and it's telling, I think, that the new series has never really gone too far in that direction.

727
00:50:26.519 --> 00:50:33.840
And it has gone in that direction from time to time, but never sort of consistently in the way that the Hinggliffear it does.

728
00:50:33.900 --> 00:50:36.239
All with the confidence that it's the right thing to do.

729
00:50:36.300 --> 00:50:38.880
Standards have changed in terms of what you would do.

730
00:50:38.940 --> 00:50:46.800
You know, you wouldn't, there is a reason why the repeat of Deadly Assassin 3 has the doctor's head suspended under the water shortened, right?

731
00:50:46.860 --> 00:50:47.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

732
00:50:47.519 --> 00:50:51.300
It's because they realise even at the time, that's probably a bit much.

733
00:50:51.360 --> 00:50:57.960
And things were definitely a bit more graphic in that era and they become more graphic in a different way in the 80s.

734
00:50:58.019 --> 00:50:58.440
Yeah.

735
00:50:58.440 --> 00:51:02.099
But just because of the way the universe is.

736
00:51:02.159 --> 00:51:18.059
But I didn't realise that Doctor Who was a ongoing thing until the leisure hive, because like watching the Brady Bunch repeats, you just assumed, I just assumed in my bizarre brain that I had when I was 8 years old, that it was a finite thing and you just watched it and, you know, everything was finite.

737
00:51:18.119 --> 00:51:19.619
Everything had a beginning and middle and end, right?

738
00:51:19.619 --> 00:51:22.559
And then when the leisure hive comes on, I go, oh, my God, they're still making this.

739
00:51:22.619 --> 00:51:23.039
This is new.

740
00:51:23.099 --> 00:51:23.699
This is actually new.

741
00:51:23.760 --> 00:51:26.820
Even though I had seen season 17 on its 1st transmission.

742
00:51:26.880 --> 00:51:27.900
I didn't know that's what it was.

743
00:51:27.960 --> 00:51:33.000
Once that happens and I enjoy, I enjoy season 18 and I enjoy season 19 and all the rest of it.

744
00:51:33.059 --> 00:51:36.780
But there is something about at the end of time flight.

745
00:51:36.780 --> 00:51:40.139
And next week, we went back to Robots.

746
00:51:40.199 --> 00:51:41.039
I was home.

747
00:51:41.099 --> 00:51:42.239
Do you know what I mean?

748
00:51:42.300 --> 00:51:49.800
And they do it again after season 20 and when, you know, and when they kept going back to do the repeats of this era, particularly the Hinchcliffe era.

749
00:51:49.800 --> 00:51:52.440
And yes, these were the 1st episodes I watched.

750
00:51:52.500 --> 00:51:54.300
Does that happen something to do with it?

751
00:51:54.360 --> 00:51:54.900
quite possibly.

752
00:51:55.019 --> 00:52:03.719
But nevertheless, even though I was seeing them on repeats for the third, fourth, fifth, sixth, 7th time and reading the novelisations, this is home.

753
00:52:28.619 --> 00:52:31.739
Well, that's all the time we had for this week.

754
00:52:31.800 --> 00:52:40.199
We'll be back next week for a deep dive into the dark places of the inside as we await the return of the Mara in Snake Dance.

755
00:52:40.380 --> 00:52:58.500
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us on our website, 500yearDiary.com, where you'll find our social media links as well as links to all of our other podcasts, including our other Doctor Who podcasts, flight through entirety, and the 2nd great and bountiful Human Empire.

756
00:52:58.559 --> 00:53:05.940
Until next time, remember to keep a piece of synastic locking mechanism on your person at all times for luck.

757
00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:08.880
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

758
00:53:08.940 --> 00:53:09.960
Ta-ta.

759
00:53:10.019 --> 00:53:10.739
Goodbye.

760
00:53:10.800 --> 00:53:11.880
I'm melting.

761
00:53:24.719 --> 00:53:30.780
That was 500 year diary, starring Nathan Bottomley, Mark McManus, Simon Moore and James Selwood.

762
00:53:30.840 --> 00:53:33.420
The theme was composed by Cameron Lamb.

763
00:53:33.480 --> 00:53:41.820
This episode, exaggerated military people, was recorded on the 12th of April 2025 and released on the 18th of May.

764
00:53:42.360 --> 00:53:55.320
And if you want to hear our breathless spoilerific take on this week's Doctor Who episode, the interstellar song contest, head on over to greatandbountiful.com on Monday and subscribe in your podcatcher of choice.

765
00:53:55.380 --> 00:53:56.760
We'll see you there.

766
00:54:09.360 --> 00:54:10.980
What do you think?

767
00:54:11.039 --> 00:54:11.579
Yep.

768
00:54:11.639 --> 00:54:12.659
End on home.

769
00:54:12.719 --> 00:54:16.679
Well, I think, like, either that's the last act, or it's the tag.

770
00:54:16.739 --> 00:54:18.599
I think that might be the tag.

771
00:54:19.079 --> 00:54:24.360
It's very convenient that the traitor amongst the gal sex is the one who dies.

772
00:54:24.420 --> 00:54:26.699
Oh, yeah, he has to die.

773
00:54:26.760 --> 00:54:32.880
Yeah, but it's always that convenient thing that it saves the others having to wonder what they're going to do with someone who's betrayed.

774
00:54:32.940 --> 00:54:33.360
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

775
00:54:33.360 --> 00:54:35.940
No, he saves the doctor and then dies in the process.

776
00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:37.199
Yeah, exactly.

777
00:54:37.260 --> 00:54:38.519
That's kind of his redemption.

778
00:54:38.579 --> 00:54:43.980
And the other thing we haven't talked about was, of course, the new Terry Walsh as Dr. Zake.

779
00:54:44.039 --> 00:54:53.940
Well, as Zay, so that he can then, not so that he can then he's conveniently there, die so that he can then be... all that Zake does is fall off a cliff.

780
00:54:54.000 --> 00:54:55.980
I mean, like, you know, hiring an actor for that.

781
00:54:56.219 --> 00:55:10.380
No, but the point is that isn't it so funny that because we know the whole collarbone thing story is that is that you just can't help but not see when he's actually got a broken collarbone.

782
00:55:10.440 --> 00:55:15.179
And when it's not, when he's just kind of standing there slightly immobile in his enormous coat.

783
00:55:15.239 --> 00:55:18.539
Thank God, they thought to bring the enormous coach.

784
00:55:18.599 --> 00:55:21.539
Someone had to drive back to London, yes.

785
00:55:21.599 --> 00:55:26.699
And I do like how when he is playing the doctor.

786
00:55:28.619 --> 00:55:34.440
As the stunt double, he's holding his body in the same ways, Tom with the broken collar.

787
00:55:34.500 --> 00:55:35.699
I think that's very generous.

788
00:55:36.719 --> 00:55:41.219
They've even wrapped the same way, and he's holding his arm that way.

789
00:55:41.280 --> 00:55:42.599
I don't say it.

790
00:55:42.780 --> 00:55:45.780
But if you do, Terry Walsh.

791
00:55:45.840 --> 00:55:47.760
Maybe it's just because he's trying to hide his face.

792
00:55:47.820 --> 00:55:55.800
I think the my problem with Terry Walsh, whether he's playing John Pertwee or Tom Baker, is that he just looks like some kind of buffy guy going down to the pub for have a fight with someone.

793
00:55:55.860 --> 00:55:56.760
You know, from behind.

794
00:55:56.820 --> 00:56:02.039
He just has that whole banner of movement that he's like, this is not a time lord for the planet Galafre.

795
00:56:02.099 --> 00:56:08.940
So you do see him like fully face on in Monster of Paladon, which you've forgotten.

796
00:56:09.000 --> 00:56:11.219
Like, he's very, very...

797
00:56:11.340 --> 00:56:12.420
As him, always.

798
00:56:12.480 --> 00:56:13.079
Oh, really?

799
00:56:13.139 --> 00:56:14.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

800
00:56:14.099 --> 00:56:18.659
Evidently, you know, monster pedalon for some reason keeps disappearing from my memory.

801
00:56:18.719 --> 00:56:22.619
But, um, the, uh, sorry, James.

802
00:56:22.619 --> 00:56:27.239
No, I was going to say you almost see him face on in this as well.

803
00:56:27.300 --> 00:56:28.260
Jumps onto the rock.

804
00:56:28.320 --> 00:56:29.340
Yeah, very briefly, yeah.

805
00:56:29.400 --> 00:56:30.360
Yes, yes, you do.

806
00:56:30.420 --> 00:56:32.699
But also, that's what I was going to say.

807
00:56:32.760 --> 00:56:40.800
But also, it's obviously must have been shot basically kind of in order, or at least the fight sequence was done on the last day, because it's not like any of the other stuff.

808
00:56:40.860 --> 00:56:42.420
He's obviously got a broken collar.

809
00:56:42.480 --> 00:56:43.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

810
00:56:43.440 --> 00:56:45.119
Yeah, maybe it is the I don't know.

811
00:56:45.179 --> 00:56:48.599
I don't know if we know about like how long it took to shoot and stuff.

812
00:56:48.659 --> 00:56:49.500
No, I can't.

813
00:56:49.500 --> 00:56:50.280
It'll all be there.

814
00:56:50.340 --> 00:56:52.619
Yeah, I didn't brush up on my archive.

815
00:56:52.739 --> 00:56:54.059
Andrew Pixie archive before coming.

816
00:56:54.119 --> 00:56:58.800
It's about a week, I think, on the production notes, on the DVD.

817
00:56:58.860 --> 00:57:00.480
I think about a week. their week.

818
00:57:00.539 --> 00:57:00.719
Yeah.

819
00:57:00.840 --> 00:57:02.579
I suppose this of all stories.

820
00:57:02.579 --> 00:57:05.820
He breaks his collarbone quite late in the day, doesn't he?

821
00:57:05.880 --> 00:57:07.679
Like, it's like on the 3rd or 4th day.

822
00:57:07.739 --> 00:57:09.239
It's on day one.

823
00:57:09.300 --> 00:57:10.500
Well, to when they're doing the fight sequence.

824
00:57:10.559 --> 00:57:17.219
It's when he's rescued Sarah. from the torture device and then he turns around and angrily rushes at Steyer.

825
00:57:17.280 --> 00:57:22.739
He slips on the wet grass and Oh, does he?

826
00:57:22.800 --> 00:57:23.460
Oh, I see.

827
00:57:23.519 --> 00:57:26.039
I thought it was actually the, um, I thought it was actually...

828
00:57:26.099 --> 00:57:26.519
What the line?

829
00:57:26.579 --> 00:57:28.800
you abomination or something.

830
00:57:28.860 --> 00:57:30.239
Yeah, like he says something.

831
00:57:30.300 --> 00:57:42.960
By the time, dude, the crew already, he'd broken his neck because he was just kind of lying there like a really horrible colour, like a deathly pallor. and yeah, it talks about some DVD. like the new doctor.

832
00:57:43.019 --> 00:57:51.599
Yeah, Hinchcliffe walking over from the OB van thinking, yeah, yeah. like, I've killed my leaving man.

833
00:57:52.739 --> 00:57:57.239
They all seem to have horrible injuries, so in the new series anyway.

834
00:57:57.300 --> 00:57:58.500
Paldi's knees.

835
00:57:58.559 --> 00:58:00.659
All his knees, tenants back.

836
00:58:01.800 --> 00:58:03.840
Anyway, the thing.

837
00:58:03.960 --> 00:58:05.400
All right.

838
00:58:05.460 --> 00:58:06.300
Well, that was fun, I think.

839
00:58:06.360 --> 00:58:07.019
What do you think?

840
00:58:07.139 --> 00:58:07.380
Awesome.