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This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 09:04:09

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Hello, dear listener and welcome back to 500 Year Diary.

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The only Doctor Who podcast that just can't believe how young parents are on TV these days.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Adam.

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I'm Brendan, and I'm James.

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It's the 1st of December, 2008.

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It's been nearly 2 years since Mrs. Wormwood vowed to take revenge on Sarah Jane Smith for exploding her mother, and this afternoon, the CBC audience will get to watch the 2 of them catch up again.

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But can Samantha Bond bring the Sarah Jane Adventures 1st villain to life again?

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Is there any point even asking that question?

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Let's find out as we discuss Enemy of the Bane.

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We have actually already talked on 500 year diary about the first appearance of Mrs. Wormwood in Invasion of the Bane.

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And so this is the last story of season two, episodes 11 and 12.

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It's written by Phil Ford, who is perhaps the writer that we associate with Sarah Jane Adventures, maybe more than anyone else, and it's directed by Graham Harper, who I think actually directed Invasion of the Bane.

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And there's a real sense, and I don't know if we said this last time, that this show is really kind of much better than it needs to be in lots of ways.

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Yeah, apart from the fact that so much of the blocking and staging is like just whatever we can get done in the time.

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Stand in the middle.

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We don't know what's going to be going on either side.

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I mean, it is significantly cheaper, isn't it, than Doctor Who?

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Yeah.

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But, I mean, that budget still runs to, like, the big CGI Bane blob guys, who are actually pretty great.

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Yeah, and they're obviously already on a hard drive somewhere.

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So, you know.

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We don't have to create them from scratch.

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And then we have the big kind of portal thing at the very end, which is massively kind of unimpressive. weirdly static and strange and yeah.

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But, but what we do have is a lot of actors who are, with maybe one exception, just doing everything properly, you've got a writer who kind of cares about creating something.

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You have just the most magnificent guest actor in Samantha Bond.

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The regulars are all really charming.

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We didn't have Ashley or Daniel Anthony in the episode that we talked about last time and they're both really great.

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Gita and Haresh are really good.

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Like, it's a properly good show, I think.

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Yeah, it's fun.

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My biggest problem, I think, is the fact that they don't have the budget.

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Like, you see what Graham Harper did with the 2 parter that ended the 2nd season of Doctor Who and you're like, oh, he can choose camera angles.

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He's doing interesting things with big, wide scenes and this is like front yard, maybe a couple of stones in a field.

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Also filming around Nicholas Courtney not being able to stand for very long is also...

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Yeah.

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You know, we go to the Black Archive and it's a pretty good looking kind of CGI building.

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But what we actually look like we're doing is that we're going to kind of the paper factory in Slough, you know, and like it's a red brick building with a sort of reception and stuff.

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You want to know what's interesting about that?

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It is actually a ministry of defence building.

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Wow.

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Not the big CG nonsense, but the red brick.

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The red brick.

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It's MOD St.

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Athens.

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It's used in Army of Ghosts.

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It's used in children of Earth.

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It's used in Planet of Vieud, and Doomsday.

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So yeah, we've got the Graham Harper connection there.

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But he found the most boring wall to film against.

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Yes.

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You could say, this is Doctor Who on a Doctor Who budget.

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It is.

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And that's kind of one of the things I love about Sarah Jane Adventures.

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It felt like the Doctor Who that I remember as a kid, if that makes sense.

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Because it had cliffhangers, for one thing. every other week.

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It was like, I think that's absolutely it.

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I mean, it really is kind of designed, I think.

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For people with kids, with sort of Doctor Who Age kids or kids the right age for this.

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So what's this pitched at sort of 10, 11, 12, maybe?

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Yeah.

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And then their parents who watched classic Doctor Who, or have some idea of classic Doctor Who, because it does have a real classic Doctor Who vibe.

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And I think the low budget actually does kind of help with that.

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Not to mention the cliffhangers, and the cliffhanger in this is really spectacularly great, isn't it?

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It's like a triple cliffhanger, isn't it?

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It's like a thing, then a thing, and then another thing.

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Yeah, yeah.

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But the great thing is that everyone's in peril in various ways, you know, in series one of Doctor Who, they are aware of how few cliffhangers they have and they really try and make them count.

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And that 1st cliffhanger, which is at the end of aliens of London. is also that. literally everyone's in peril.

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But we end on the most important person in peril, which is Jackie Tyler, of course.

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The person we care about.

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Here, we have everyone in peril, but the cliffhanger isn't that.

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The cliffhanger is, oh my goodness, she's teamed up with the Santarin from the 1st story.

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And so it becomes one of those what's going to happen now, Cliffhangers.

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Here's a bit of information that changes what things are.

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I think it's really only at this point that we realise that the whole thing's a ruse and that she isn't trying to.

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So what she doing, there's some, someone was not sufficiently executed enough and they were split into 2 bits and she isn't trying to prevent the bane from getting the 2 bits she wants them and that's the reveal.

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Yeah It's, yeah.

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I mean, it's all McGuffin, McGuffin, McGuffin.

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What we really want is Samantha Bond being arch.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And we get it.

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I remember during the 1st season of Sarah Jane Adventures sitting at the pub, I think, with you, Nathan, and with our friends, Stephen Kennedy and David Smith.

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And I think it was Stephen Kennedy who said, the great thing about the Sarah Jane Adventures is this feels like if when Doctor Who was brought back, Philip Hinchcliffe was put in charge.

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And yeah, it's that thing of not only, you know, has Mrs. Wormwood not been sufficiently executed enough, but we also have the ancient creature from 3000 years ago at a burial site.

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That is not sufficiently executed enough.

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And the burial site is in a quarry.

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And it's the same quarry that was used last week on the Sarah Jane Adventures in the Temptation of Sarah James Smith and on Planet of the Eude.

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I love a multipurpose quarry.

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I was half expecting those stones to become ogre. going.

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They were shot from so far away.

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I was like, oh, they're not there, are they?

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They're not permanent, but they are a physical prop that they did put that.

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Oh, they are, they agree.

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No, fibreglass.

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They are polystyrene.

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I will say, and sort of, you know, getting ahead and sort of rushing to the end.

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Something I thought with, oh, you know, Luke, you're human.

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So you can go inside this force field.

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It's kind of like Luke can just go in there and go, okay, I'm just going to stand here now.

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Yeah.

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What you going to do?

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What you going to do?

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I guess, you know, they needed to establish whether a blaster fire would go through the force fields, like that to work.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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Also, he's a scared child.

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That's true.

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That's true.

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I did love that whole thing about her having a little maternal moment, Mrs. Wormwood.

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I think that that's actually really, really properly good.

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And that's, so like Samantha Bond was really great the 1st time round.

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And I guess the thing that we remember best is the confrontation in the office between her and Sarah Jane and where she talks about Sarah Jane being childless and purposeless and navigate empty life and all of that kind of thing.

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And there's still more of that here, isn't there?

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Because the 2 of them are fighting over Lou.

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And even though Mrs. Wormwood spends the 1st episode lying to us about why she's here and what she wants to do, I think that she is sincere when she talks about Luke.

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Like that, she's not trying to trick him.

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It's not the usual thing where the master sort of says you could rule by my side over the entire galaxy or whatever and but he intends to kind of off you within the 1st kind of week or so.

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Like, I think she means it, doesn't she?

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Like, yeah, yeah.

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And also, I love that they didn't overplay when Sarah Jane is like, oh, Luke chose me, basically.

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Yeah, yeah.

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They don't overplay the lead up to that.

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We don't get 40 minutes of her hand ringing going, will he choose me, which I feel we would have gotten in a more modern episode of Doctor Who.

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Yeah, I mean, I think that just works incredibly well.

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And it's the sort of thing that a child can understand.

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So the central thing becomes about his 2 mothers, his birth mother, and what is it that makes a mother?

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And I think that that's something that is absolutely pitched at the audience, like the main audience, something that they're going to understand.

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So all of the science fiction stuff, which is great, and, you know, Samantha Bond sort of arch villain performance is also really fantastic, but there is a central comprehensible emotional chord of the story that speaks to the concerns of the main audience.

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I just think it's really well charged.

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Yeah, it's really sweet.

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Weirdly, when I was like, oh, I don't think I've seen this one when I started watching it, and then the brigadier and this on Tara turned up, I'm like, no, I've definitely seen this one.

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I remember the brigadier and the Santara.

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How did I blank out everything else and I think that's that weird thing we have with Doctor Who where you go. you remember it, like friends episode titles.

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It's like the one with.

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And you don't go further than the one with the brigadier and the Santara. other things might have happened.

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I don't remember.

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For me, it was always the one where Carg and Mrs. Wormwood team are because that is such a random... like, you know, it's like the Riddler and the Joker teaming up.

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You know, like it's an absolute kids show thing.

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Two villains from one from The Pilot and one from the beginning of this season.

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Both team up to get revenge on Sarah Jane, which I just think is fabulous and absolutely part of the genre and is cheesy as hell. terrific, terrific staff.

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And he's really good as well.

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I think he's great.

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Um, not a Santaran that we've seen from the parent show at all.

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I mean, it was offered to both of those actors, the role, and they were busy or turned it down.

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Oh, it could have been one of them.

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I do want to give a shout out in particular to Anthony O'Donnell because he is in his late 50s when he takes on this role.

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Right.

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And he's doing all the running around.

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And there's one bit, I think it's the bit where he knocks Luke to the ground, like he, you know, trips him over and you get a sort of side profile view of him and he's a lot more solid than Christopher Ryan or Dan Starkey.

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Like, you know, he looks like a rugby player.

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He is Welsh.

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He is Welsh.

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Listeners, listeners to our old Bond podcast, Bondfinger, may recognise Anthony O'Donnell as the man in Skyfall, who observes Bond rushing and jumping onto a tube train and saying, he's in a hurry to get home.

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That's it.

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In his signature role as man, I think.

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Yeah.

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Train passenger. number two.

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I once got casters villain number 2 and then villain number one didn't turn up and so I got to be villain number one.

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Right.

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Well done.

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Student production.

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Yeah, that really beefed up that idea.

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Something I find really interesting about Anthony O'Donnell's performance is it's not a comedy performance in the same way that Christopher Ryan and Dan Starkey sort of do in the Santar and 2-parter, and that's not a criticism of them.

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You know, we've talked before about the Santarans are meant to be funny.

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Anthony O'Donnell plays it really seriously.

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And I think that helps because I think if he was being quite arch as well.

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It would take away from Samantha Bond's performance. whereas he has to be a sort of more credible, more physical threat.

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It's just such an interesting choice to have him in the kids' show of the Doctor Who universe at this point be a really quite menacing figure.

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Whereas in the main show, you've got Comedy Sontara saying, oh, humans all look the same to us. do you mean?

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It's kind of weird that they're treated as comedic.

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I don't know if it's because Russell T Davis is quite tall, but it's almost like, oh, short people are all ridiculous.

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Yes, make fun of them.

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Whereas this is like, this is like, 0 no, this is someone with Napoleonic syndrome.

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This is like an angry, small man.

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I saw a great production of Romeo and Juliet once and Tybalt was cast as like this short, muscly guy.

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And I was like, oh, that makes so much more sense.

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There's a real threat.

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Like, Mrs. Wormwood, at some point, comments on the fact that this is sparring between 2 women to kind of middle-aged women and we need like a masculine figure in here to kind of sort it out and then the Santaran comes in.

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But you also get Clyde talking about a story just a couple of episodes ago called Mark of the Berserker, which involved his father, and his father being violent.

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And so, you know, again, there's something there that the show is not afraid to touch on.

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But I do think that he just needs to play it straight because she doesn't.

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And you don't want them competing.

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I think.

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Yeah, also, as Brendan said, he's an older gentleman who is under 7 kilos of latex.

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And it's just like, this is all I can manage, right?

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There's something about his teeth.

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Like they're sort of crooked or something and it's just a really, really strong look.

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Like, I think he looks great.

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I think he looks properly menacing.

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It's been a weird scar.

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Yeah, the scar.

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It's been a long time since I've seen it.

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So it was called the Last Santarin, and it was the two-part opening story for this season, in which Chrissy is written out of the show and some other characters leave, I think, as well.

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No, Chrissy and Maria and Alan are all written out in the sort of Santaran 2 parter at the start of the show.

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And he is a Santaran who is left over from the series 4 Santaran 2 Parta, which was just screened a few months earlier.

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So it's kind of like a spinoff or a continuation almost.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, and again, I think there's something really warm about that.

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The show acknowledging the parent show because the kids are watching the parent show because at this point everyone's watching it. everyone is.

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And so this is something for them, just for them that hooks into the show before we consider having the doctor himself sort of coming to visit, I think.

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More of a spud off than a spinoff.

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I love Nathan, that you're concerned for who's being written out is one of the mums.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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But it's crazy.

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I mean, all the mums, all of the mums.

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But Chrissy actually gets a high heel shoe into the Santari probing fan.

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She defeats it and she also walks off and says, you know I know what's been going on. so good.

209
00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:08.279
And it is exactly what I've always said about when I heard that Billy Piper was leaving Doctor Who.

210
00:18:08.339 --> 00:18:10.859
I went, oh my god, what will happen to Camille?

211
00:18:10.920 --> 00:18:15.119
And it is exactly the same feeling when Maria.

212
00:18:15.180 --> 00:18:16.500
And I like Maria.

213
00:18:16.559 --> 00:18:18.720
I actually think Maria is pretty good.

214
00:18:18.779 --> 00:18:24.960
It's really good having an actual kid as the star of this kid's show.

215
00:18:25.019 --> 00:18:27.839
I thought she was, you know, she performed really well.

216
00:18:27.900 --> 00:18:28.500
I thought she was great.

217
00:18:28.559 --> 00:18:34.980
She's not actually Mohindra, who is really just superb, but is who's a 20s and very tall.

218
00:18:35.039 --> 00:18:36.420
And very taller than everyone else.

219
00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:39.779
Samantha Bond actually gets to say that.

220
00:18:39.839 --> 00:18:44.039
Okay, it's to mention how much taller she is than her predecessor.

221
00:18:44.099 --> 00:18:49.140
But, you know, like I was just sort of a bit sad that she was going to leave.

222
00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:52.380
So there are a couple of half forms in a 3 quarter form.

223
00:18:52.500 --> 00:18:53.700
Yeah, basically.

224
00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:57.059
A one. 5 form.

225
00:18:58.019 --> 00:19:06.960
And then the other people that we haven't mentioned, like Gita, who's played by Mina Anwar is just absolutely superb. amazing.

226
00:19:07.019 --> 00:19:14.279
We already praised her appearance in Smile, in that tiny scene at the beginning of Smile when we talked about that on Flight Through Entirety.

227
00:19:14.339 --> 00:19:19.200
I mean, she's just so magnificent and she's ridiculously young in this, isn't she?

228
00:19:19.259 --> 00:19:20.940
Like they're so young.

229
00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:28.200
Like she feels like she could be her daughter's sister. like legitimately.

230
00:19:28.920 --> 00:19:31.259
It's really something.

231
00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:39.180
She's so funny. and funny in a completely different way from Chrissy and adorable, just absolutely loveable.

232
00:19:39.240 --> 00:19:46.799
And, you know, the genius of this is that you can threaten the parents, that you can put the parents in peril in the show.

233
00:19:46.859 --> 00:19:48.420
The kids know what's happening.

234
00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:50.819
The parents are kind of unwitting.

235
00:19:50.819 --> 00:19:56.279
And so we start with, you know, Mrs. Wormwood visiting the flower shop.

236
00:19:56.339 --> 00:20:00.000
Oh my god, that has a stupid pun name, which I adore.

237
00:20:02.819 --> 00:20:08.099
I couldn't get over that handwriting font that the window.

238
00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:10.859
It's just like so period.

239
00:20:12.180 --> 00:20:15.000
It's not as bad as the bubble shock font.

240
00:20:15.059 --> 00:20:16.079
No, that's true.

241
00:20:19.140 --> 00:20:23.039
Which looked like everything on Canva. exactly.

242
00:20:26.099 --> 00:20:32.519
Something amazing about the blooming lovely scenes is for the night scenes.

243
00:20:32.759 --> 00:20:36.660
They literally just put up a tent outside to block the sunlight.

244
00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:37.740
Great.

245
00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:42.599
And then after they'd done that, they pulled the tent down and did the day scenes in the shop.

246
00:20:42.660 --> 00:20:44.099
Amazing. love it.

247
00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:59.460
The other thing I love about the bloom and lovely scenes is when everyone except Luke gets knocked out, you cut away, I think you show Ansley or Danny Anthony falling down.

248
00:20:59.579 --> 00:21:03.660
And then when you cut back, you can just see that Nick is sitting in a chair.

249
00:21:03.720 --> 00:21:12.240
It's like, yeah, they're conveniently positioned a chair for the brig to fall into and just probably gone.

250
00:21:12.299 --> 00:21:14.279
Now, now, I'm just about to grab Papa.

251
00:21:14.339 --> 00:21:15.720
Now, Nick, don't actually fall over.

252
00:21:15.779 --> 00:21:18.000
We don't have the insurance.

253
00:21:18.059 --> 00:21:20.640
We're just going to cut away and you're going to sit in the chair.

254
00:21:20.700 --> 00:21:21.119
It's fine.

255
00:21:21.180 --> 00:21:21.539
It fine.

256
00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:22.019
It's fine.

257
00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:22.680
Make magic.

258
00:21:22.740 --> 00:21:23.099
Let's go.

259
00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:28.980
I love that several of his scenes take place just in a car with other people not in the car.

260
00:21:30.539 --> 00:21:34.380
It's like, how do we accommodate the blocking here?

261
00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:35.099
Just leave him.

262
00:21:35.700 --> 00:21:49.500
So he was originally going to be Martha, of course, who has joined unit, but she was unavailable and we can blame Chris Chibnall because she was doing Law and Order UK.

263
00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:54.960
So the decision to do him, this is his last appearance as the brigadier on television.

264
00:21:55.380 --> 00:21:56.940
So glorious.

265
00:21:56.940 --> 00:22:02.759
Yeah. it really is rather wonderful to have him on this show.

266
00:22:02.819 --> 00:22:03.660
Again.

267
00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:16.079
One of the things that this era of Doctor Who does is it introduces a whole new generation to all of the nonsense that we've been obsessed with for decades.

268
00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:24.180
And so it's Dalek, Cybermen, the Master, the Santarans, you know, Davros, all come back.

269
00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:27.180
And so we get the brigadier as well.

270
00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:28.380
And he's been mentioned.

271
00:22:28.440 --> 00:22:37.440
He was not available because he was in Peru, I think, during the Santaran 2 parter in series four.

272
00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:47.220
So that's great because they actually make him being in Peru in the Sultan two-parter into a plot by the Bang.

273
00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:48.180
Yeah, yeah.

274
00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:49.319
That's fantastic.

275
00:22:50.460 --> 00:22:59.220
So in fact, the kids watching this know more about that two-part story than everyone else, which is wonderful. absolutely brilliant.

276
00:22:59.279 --> 00:23:00.000
Yeah.

277
00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:08.220
There's actually deleted dialogue where when Major Kilburn asks him about his mission in Peru. brigadier very angrily replies.

278
00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:11.579
The Chupacabra is an urban legend.

279
00:23:11.640 --> 00:23:12.180
Nothing more.

280
00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:16.019
Doesn't unit have enough aliens to shoot at these days without chasing shadows?

281
00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:18.059
Wonderful.

282
00:23:18.119 --> 00:23:19.980
I wish they'd let that in.

283
00:23:20.880 --> 00:23:22.680
That's awesome.

284
00:23:22.740 --> 00:23:23.700
Here's the thing.

285
00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:29.519
And the viewer at home can't see this, but I have the Sarah Jane Smith companion here from Doctor Who magazine here.

286
00:23:29.579 --> 00:23:33.839
This whole blue page here is deleted dialogue. from this story.

287
00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:36.420
We're talking like size 8 font.

288
00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:41.099
I suspect it was a lot of, you know, they're in such a hurry.

289
00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:44.519
It's like, yeah, you fluff the name of that gobbledy-gook.

290
00:23:44.579 --> 00:23:45.420
We'll just move that.

291
00:23:46.440 --> 00:23:49.440
The brigadier probably couldn't say...

292
00:23:50.220 --> 00:23:57.059
Well, they also gave him an explanation to spout out for why he's using a cane.

293
00:23:57.119 --> 00:24:00.059
Ruddy Catabakuda, stinger in my leg.

294
00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:02.880
It's good for nothing but a doorstop for the last 15 years.

295
00:24:02.940 --> 00:24:06.359
And yeah, I think they just came down on the fact of, no, he's just old.

296
00:24:06.420 --> 00:24:07.440
He can just have a cane.

297
00:24:07.500 --> 00:24:08.039
It's fine.

298
00:24:14.099 --> 00:24:16.680
And just the warmth between the 2 of them as well.

299
00:24:16.740 --> 00:24:20.099
Like his photos on her wall in the attic, I think, isn't it?

300
00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:23.099
Like there's photos of Harry and there's photos of the brigadier and stuff.

301
00:24:23.160 --> 00:24:28.619
But just seeing those 2 reunited on television in a way that you just never, ever expected to happen.

302
00:24:28.680 --> 00:24:30.960
I think is so great.

303
00:24:31.079 --> 00:24:34.920
It adds so much to their relationship as well.

304
00:24:34.980 --> 00:24:38.519
Like, they really don't have that much of a relationship in classic Doctor Who.

305
00:24:38.579 --> 00:24:41.099
Yeah, they're in a, what, 2 or 3 stories together.

306
00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:44.819
You know, like they're, they're, they're acquaintances.

307
00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:46.920
They're not even really colleagues.

308
00:24:46.980 --> 00:24:48.420
She didn't work for units.

309
00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:52.440
Um, you know, they're writing unit out in the season she's introduced in.

310
00:24:52.500 --> 00:24:55.680
So, like, they appear in a few stories, then another few with Tom.

311
00:24:55.740 --> 00:25:05.460
But this actually shows that they had a relationship after the show and that they kept in touch and that they value each other as friends.

312
00:25:05.519 --> 00:25:06.299
It's really sweet.

313
00:25:06.359 --> 00:25:27.539
I like the line where she says that she never had the security clearance that her own memoirs have. because she's just some journalist who's hanging around for no reason and there's that wonderful thing in robot where the brigadier says, I actually don't know why I'm telling you all of this because you're just some rando friend of the doctor.

314
00:25:28.619 --> 00:25:32.400
So like all of that was so tremendous.

315
00:25:32.460 --> 00:25:44.039
And I do think, though, those scenes are spoiled somewhat. by just an inexplicably badly judged performance by the actor who plays Kilburn.

316
00:25:44.099 --> 00:25:46.980
Yeah, he's giving a kids TV show performance.

317
00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:48.000
Exactly.

318
00:25:48.059 --> 00:25:48.720
Yeah.

319
00:25:48.779 --> 00:25:54.779
And it highlights that everyone else isn't doing that, that everyone else isn't doing a kid's TV performance.

320
00:25:54.839 --> 00:26:00.839
They are, in a sense, they're doing a classic Doctor Who performance where it is slightly bigger, like it is hyper real.

321
00:26:00.900 --> 00:26:02.519
You know, it's not prestige TV.

322
00:26:02.579 --> 00:26:08.460
It is still just a kids show and it sort of tends towards melodrama the way that the parent show does.

323
00:26:08.519 --> 00:26:10.980
But he's doing something completely different.

324
00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:14.759
I think that's the point with Sarah Jane Benches.

325
00:26:14.759 --> 00:26:18.299
For the most part, it is played not straight, but it's played.

326
00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:24.359
It's played in a in a way which, like you say, is melt dramatic, but it's not kids show acting.

327
00:26:24.420 --> 00:26:27.839
It's heightened, but it's they're taking it seriously.

328
00:26:27.900 --> 00:26:28.680
Yeah.

329
00:26:28.740 --> 00:26:46.259
So you've got these 2 spectacular women playing really straight, this ludicrous storyline, you know, absolutely out of the box craziness, and he's come into mansplain how to perform this script.

330
00:26:47.940 --> 00:26:51.000
And it's like, look who you're up against.

331
00:26:51.059 --> 00:26:52.859
Like, these women know what they're doing.

332
00:26:52.920 --> 00:27:02.400
Like, don't come in and pretend like you know better because, oh, I know how to play this craziness and it's like, no, no, these, these 2 have been doing this for years. know what's going on.

333
00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:08.880
He could have been properly menacing because, you know, he is already a threat.

334
00:27:08.940 --> 00:27:12.420
I mean, part of the problem is that the performance spoils the reveal.

335
00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:15.599
Like the moment he starts acting like this, you know that he's a bane, right?

336
00:27:15.660 --> 00:27:19.920
Yeah, so that reveal gets spoiled, I think, by that performance.

337
00:27:19.980 --> 00:27:22.559
But also he's still a proper threat.

338
00:27:22.619 --> 00:27:24.960
And he is an antagonist.

339
00:27:25.019 --> 00:27:34.200
And had he been someone who was a little bit more credible, that would have been more interesting and then the discovery that he's a bane.

340
00:27:34.259 --> 00:27:37.319
And he could have been a properly scary bane as well.

341
00:27:37.380 --> 00:27:41.579
Generally the Bane, you know, comedy gloop monsters and stuff like that.

342
00:27:41.640 --> 00:27:45.480
We even have the fabulous thing of exploding them all over the kids, you know.

343
00:27:45.539 --> 00:27:51.119
Oh my god, weird custard explosions. on television.

344
00:27:52.019 --> 00:27:57.900
But I mean, we had the Slovene doing that in the parent show a few years ago as well.

345
00:27:57.960 --> 00:27:59.160
They had noodles in them.

346
00:28:03.599 --> 00:28:05.039
But like that's fun.

347
00:28:05.099 --> 00:28:07.259
All of that stuff is really terrifically fun.

348
00:28:07.380 --> 00:28:09.000
But he's not fun.

349
00:28:09.059 --> 00:28:15.720
He's just not fun to watch So he's he's Simon Chadwick, and it's been bothering me since I rewatched this.

350
00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:17.759
I'm like, I know I recognise him from somewhere.

351
00:28:17.819 --> 00:28:19.019
I know I recognise him from somewhere.

352
00:28:19.079 --> 00:28:22.680
James, if I were to say the words coupling and rump.

353
00:28:22.740 --> 00:28:23.460
Really?

354
00:28:23.519 --> 00:28:29.339
He is Sally's butcher boyfriend in the coupling episode the man with 2 legs.

355
00:28:43.019 --> 00:29:00.119
I misremembered this episode in that because of this performance from him, I actually assumed that we always knew that he was a bank. the reveal that he was a Bane was at the beginning of the story.

356
00:29:00.180 --> 00:29:10.019
So because of the largeness of his performance, it ruins it, but I actually also had a memory cheats moment with that because that acting.

357
00:29:10.140 --> 00:29:15.180
I think I had a similar thing where I said, oh, he's a bane, and then it just kept going.

358
00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:18.000
You know, I thought, oh, okay, maybe I'm misremembering it.

359
00:29:18.059 --> 00:29:19.319
It's just a terrible performance.

360
00:29:19.380 --> 00:29:21.720
But turns out it was both.

361
00:29:22.200 --> 00:29:26.700
When you said earlier, apart from one performance, everyone's good.

362
00:29:26.759 --> 00:29:28.920
I'm like, I can't remember anyone being bad.

363
00:29:28.980 --> 00:29:31.500
And then you bring him up, I'm like, oh, yeah, I blocked him out.

364
00:29:31.559 --> 00:29:32.700
I only watched it yesterday.

365
00:29:35.759 --> 00:29:42.960
You know, I think he's also kind of like the Grand Serpent in flux, not in terms of performance, I think, the Grand Serpent's performance is brilliant.

366
00:29:43.019 --> 00:29:45.480
But he's just, he's just one villain too many.

367
00:29:45.539 --> 00:29:46.680
Yeah.

368
00:29:46.740 --> 00:29:48.960
He's the Sandman in Spider-Man 3.

369
00:29:49.140 --> 00:29:49.740
Yeah.

370
00:29:49.740 --> 00:29:53.460
Irritating, of course, and gets everywhere.

371
00:29:53.519 --> 00:29:53.759
Yeah.

372
00:29:54.839 --> 00:29:57.180
Terrible in the underpants.

373
00:29:58.920 --> 00:30:11.880
It could be a casualty of rapidly rewriting the scripts because, you know, earlier on, Nathan, when you said this was originally meant to be Martha, Nicholas Courtney was cast on 5 days notice.

374
00:30:11.940 --> 00:30:19.079
Wow, okay. kind of the offer came in for Freeman and she just called the production office and she's like, I can't turn this down.

375
00:30:19.140 --> 00:30:21.660
It's a lead role in a major show.

376
00:30:21.720 --> 00:30:25.259
And Russell's like, yep, of course, you know, we'll figure it out.

377
00:30:25.319 --> 00:30:30.299
And kudos to Nick for basically being told, so you're our 2nd choice.

378
00:30:31.500 --> 00:30:34.680
Can you get down to Carter for a costume fitting?

379
00:30:34.740 --> 00:30:36.420
He's like, of bloody course I can.

380
00:30:37.680 --> 00:30:41.579
I mean, he would have thought he'd like practically retired at this point, wouldn't he?

381
00:30:41.640 --> 00:30:43.920
Yeah, just big finishing conventions at this point.

382
00:30:43.980 --> 00:30:44.819
Yeah.

383
00:30:44.880 --> 00:30:46.740
I guess 3 years before he passed away.

384
00:30:46.799 --> 00:30:49.140
Like he's quite, you know, senior.

385
00:30:49.559 --> 00:30:52.799
It's the wedding of River Song, isn't it?

386
00:30:52.859 --> 00:30:59.339
The finale to series 6 where the doctor learns that the brigadier has died.

387
00:30:59.640 --> 00:31:03.420
So it is sort of quite soon after this, I think.

388
00:31:03.480 --> 00:31:07.200
Like, yeah, I'm just glad that we had it.

389
00:31:07.259 --> 00:31:13.980
It was so nice and I'd forgotten. when I watched this that he was in it and was so excited to see him again.

390
00:31:14.220 --> 00:31:23.220
I did actually go to a convention in the UK around the time this went out and Nick was there as one of the guests.

391
00:31:23.279 --> 00:31:30.299
And my main memory of it is he and Silv were meant to be on an interview panel, but Nick's autograph queue was running along.

392
00:31:30.359 --> 00:31:31.140
So he was a bit late.

393
00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:33.180
But the interviewer also didn't show up.

394
00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:40.380
And so Silv is running around with the microphone like he was a bit more...

395
00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:47.460
And Nick wanders in after about 10 minutes with a pint and says, oh, oh, so what are you doing?

396
00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:48.000
What are you doing?

397
00:31:48.059 --> 00:31:50.039
Oh, the interviewer hasn't turned up, Nick.

398
00:31:50.099 --> 00:31:50.700
So I'm running around.

399
00:31:50.759 --> 00:31:53.099
You go sit down and I'll get questions for you.

400
00:31:53.160 --> 00:31:53.700
Oh.

401
00:31:53.759 --> 00:31:54.839
Oh, all right.

402
00:31:54.900 --> 00:31:56.339
All right.

403
00:31:56.400 --> 00:32:03.960
And so Nick goes up to the stage and Sills fielding the questions for him. 10 minutes later, the interviewer comes in and Nick's like, oh, hello.

404
00:32:04.019 --> 00:32:05.759
And still says, no, we don't need you.

405
00:32:05.819 --> 00:32:06.359
We're doing fine.

406
00:32:06.420 --> 00:32:06.660
Thank you.

407
00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:07.019
Goodbye.

408
00:32:09.240 --> 00:32:12.599
And he's like, oh, no, no, no, come on, come up, dear boy.

409
00:32:12.660 --> 00:32:12.960
Come on.

410
00:32:13.019 --> 00:32:13.619
Yes, you know.

411
00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:28.140
So he was the 1st convention guest that I ever saw, and it was the 1st convention I ever went to, and it was in the very late 80s, and we had just seen Battlefield.

412
00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:30.720
So it must be 8990 or something like that.

413
00:32:30.900 --> 00:32:34.619
And it was at Sydney University, which is where I was.

414
00:32:34.619 --> 00:32:36.720
Stephen Roberts, Stephen Roberts Theatre.

415
00:32:36.779 --> 00:32:38.519
I was there, I remember it was demolished.

416
00:32:38.579 --> 00:32:39.660
The theatre.

417
00:32:39.720 --> 00:32:40.559
Not the convention.

418
00:32:40.680 --> 00:32:42.000
No.

419
00:32:42.420 --> 00:32:49.500
And everyone wanted to ask him about Anselon because he's terribly hot.

420
00:32:49.559 --> 00:32:51.660
You know, like he'd been in Battlefield.

421
00:32:51.720 --> 00:32:54.720
We all wanted to know about Anselon.

422
00:32:54.720 --> 00:33:00.359
And he said, oh, lovely fellow, had terrific hash, what he said.

423
00:33:19.859 --> 00:33:22.859
I want to talk about Samantha Bond again a little bit.

424
00:33:22.980 --> 00:33:24.960
We can talk about it for days.

425
00:33:25.019 --> 00:33:29.339
I watched a terrible crime show just because it had her and Joe Martin.

426
00:33:30.299 --> 00:33:33.900
Oh, I had someone at work this week.

427
00:33:33.960 --> 00:33:36.720
Tell me about a show that she's in and I can't remember.

428
00:33:36.839 --> 00:33:37.920
The Marlow Murder Club.

429
00:33:37.980 --> 00:33:40.019
No, it's not that, but it was something else.

430
00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:43.859
And she was trying to continue. to watch it, not downtown Abbey.

431
00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:46.140
She was trying to convince me to watch it.

432
00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:48.539
She said, have you ever heard of Samantha Bond?

433
00:33:48.599 --> 00:33:50.759
It's just like, have I heard?

434
00:33:50.819 --> 00:33:51.240
Have I?

435
00:33:51.299 --> 00:33:52.799
She was Money Penny.

436
00:33:52.859 --> 00:33:54.119
She calls Money Penny.

437
00:33:54.180 --> 00:33:56.039
She called Bond a cunning linguist.

438
00:33:56.099 --> 00:33:56.519
Come on.

439
00:33:56.819 --> 00:34:03.660
What about the deep fake sex that she has with Piers Brosnan in the VR helmet?

440
00:34:04.079 --> 00:34:08.039
But here, she's amazingly still.

441
00:34:08.099 --> 00:34:12.000
Isn't there just an incredible stillness to her?

442
00:34:12.059 --> 00:34:16.800
And like she's wearing that that cowl, which is stupid.

443
00:34:16.860 --> 00:34:18.059
Like, who wears?

444
00:34:18.659 --> 00:34:19.619
pinned into her hair.

445
00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:23.639
But she's just so windy.

446
00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:32.099
She looks fantastic, but there is just that absolute stillness to the way that she can dance herself.

447
00:34:32.159 --> 00:34:34.500
She never raises a sweat.

448
00:34:34.559 --> 00:34:43.260
She never really seems super agitated and just the line delivery, just the way that she speaks is so magnificent.

449
00:34:43.320 --> 00:34:56.340
And, you know, there was just no question that whatever you did with her, whatever you got her to come back and do, she would absolutely be magnificent at, and you just needed to kind of lure her back in some way.

450
00:34:56.460 --> 00:35:00.659
She was unbelievably great in that 1st episode.

451
00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:01.920
So magnificent.

452
00:35:01.980 --> 00:35:07.199
I suspect that she was given a direction that, you know, when you're holding your little ring thing.

453
00:35:07.260 --> 00:35:11.400
It needs to be in exactly the same place because the special effects people.

454
00:35:11.460 --> 00:35:12.599
Oh, Jake.

455
00:35:13.739 --> 00:35:19.380
And so she's done the whole role of like, I'm just not going to move much because I don't want to get out of the screen.

456
00:35:22.739 --> 00:35:29.760
I think also, we were saying earlier with Simon Chadwick's performance and the idea of a kids TV performance.

457
00:35:29.820 --> 00:35:35.099
I think there are certain things that you can do in live action kids TV.

458
00:35:35.159 --> 00:35:37.320
It's okay to give that level of kids' performance.

459
00:35:37.380 --> 00:35:40.619
And for me, I call that sort of pose she does with her ring.

460
00:35:40.679 --> 00:35:44.940
I call that her Power Rangers moment because it's like when the Power Rangers are about to change.

461
00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:48.900
They have to go into the same pose every time because that matches the Japanese footage.

462
00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:50.460
Yeah.

463
00:35:50.519 --> 00:35:53.760
So, you know, she or Graham have figured out.

464
00:35:53.820 --> 00:36:02.460
It's like, right, so with the ring, you're going to sort of do a live long and prosper and put those 2 things around and just twist your hands every time and that's going to be the pose.

465
00:36:02.519 --> 00:36:03.719
Yeah.

466
00:36:03.780 --> 00:36:05.880
So that's something kids can do in the playground.

467
00:36:05.940 --> 00:36:06.239
Exactly.

468
00:36:06.300 --> 00:36:06.900
Exactly.

469
00:36:06.900 --> 00:36:07.139
Exactly.

470
00:36:07.199 --> 00:36:15.659
And we get one whacking great close-up of the ring and it's just one of those cheap sort of light refracting rings that you could get at pound land at the time.

471
00:36:16.559 --> 00:36:18.360
So cheap.

472
00:36:18.420 --> 00:36:19.559
What I love about this show.

473
00:36:19.619 --> 00:36:23.039
It's like it's so cheap and it's delightful.

474
00:36:24.239 --> 00:36:29.400
But I mean, she spends like that 1st episode just lying to us about who she is.

475
00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:33.059
Like, and even being on the back foot a little bit.

476
00:36:33.119 --> 00:36:41.760
You know, even when she's sort of caught in the, you know, the containment vortex or something in the attic and she has to try and get Luke to release her.

477
00:36:41.820 --> 00:36:43.380
All of that sort of star.

478
00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:52.320
Like, everything is arch and everything is this sort of villain performance, but there's a real sort of sincerity to it.

479
00:36:52.380 --> 00:36:55.860
She's really believable, I think.

480
00:36:55.920 --> 00:36:59.639
And I think the one thing that they do here.

481
00:36:59.699 --> 00:37:03.780
So Russell likes to give the villains families, right?

482
00:37:03.840 --> 00:37:11.039
So we had the main mother, and you know, we have the Slovene, a crime family.

483
00:37:11.099 --> 00:37:13.619
You know, it's Margaret Blaine and all of her brothers.

484
00:37:13.679 --> 00:37:16.079
Yeah, you know, and there's the family of blood.

485
00:37:16.139 --> 00:37:20.219
Like, he wants villains that love one another in a way.

486
00:37:20.280 --> 00:37:23.099
That's a little bit kind of more interesting.

487
00:37:23.219 --> 00:37:29.280
But she doesn't really show any of that in the in that 1st story.

488
00:37:29.340 --> 00:37:35.699
But here she's actually invited to do something a little bit more interesting with Luke.

489
00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:38.460
And like, of course she can do it.

490
00:37:38.519 --> 00:37:46.980
She's magnificent, but it was nice to kind of give her a little bit more depth for want of a better word.

491
00:37:47.699 --> 00:37:55.440
Well, I guess if you know it's Samantha Bond just coming back, you're like, well, we can throw anything at her and she'll be fine.

492
00:37:55.500 --> 00:37:57.179
Like, we don't have to.

493
00:37:57.179 --> 00:38:01.679
Because I imagine they've, they've had so many great guest actors on this show.

494
00:38:01.739 --> 00:38:05.400
It's like they know they're going to get someone good. every episode.

495
00:38:05.519 --> 00:38:07.320
It's like, ah yeah, we can just throw anything at them.

496
00:38:07.380 --> 00:38:09.539
But Saran Jones next week. fine.

497
00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:12.000
We've got Bradley Walsh.

498
00:38:12.059 --> 00:38:12.480
It's fine.

499
00:38:12.539 --> 00:38:12.960
Let's do it.

500
00:38:13.800 --> 00:38:20.340
Doctor Who, like the parent show doesn't seem to do villains in quite the same way.

501
00:38:20.400 --> 00:38:24.059
It's a very classic Doctor Who villain performance.

502
00:38:24.119 --> 00:38:26.159
It's the sort of thing that Simon would approve of, I think.

503
00:38:26.219 --> 00:38:38.460
You know, you have a posh person doing a sort of slightly bigger but not too big performance and it's not the sort of villain that we tend to go for, the sort of RP villain.

504
00:38:38.519 --> 00:38:42.000
Um, who is from Doctor Who in the 70s.

505
00:38:42.119 --> 00:38:51.059
It's just sad that she doesn't have a proper old school Doctor Who death where instead of being pitched into a special effect, she just sort of crumples to the floor.

506
00:38:52.500 --> 00:38:55.139
Like carefully because it's concrete.

507
00:39:00.179 --> 00:39:06.179
I mean, I don't think this show kills its villains very often because it is a kid's show.

508
00:39:06.300 --> 00:39:08.460
Yeah Oh, she's pitched into a weird dimension.

509
00:39:08.519 --> 00:39:09.119
She could be back.

510
00:39:09.179 --> 00:39:10.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

511
00:39:10.079 --> 00:39:11.579
And I think that was absolutely the aim.

512
00:39:11.639 --> 00:39:12.659
Had the show kept going.

513
00:39:12.719 --> 00:39:14.699
You know, we could have had her back, I think.

514
00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:17.760
Well, big finish have brought her back.

515
00:39:17.880 --> 00:39:19.739
No. in their box set.

516
00:39:19.800 --> 00:39:21.659
Rani takes on the world.

517
00:39:21.719 --> 00:39:23.519
Oh, of course they have.

518
00:39:23.579 --> 00:39:25.800
And she's Mrs. Wormwood.

519
00:39:25.860 --> 00:39:26.460
Is she fabulous?

520
00:39:26.519 --> 00:39:30.000
I haven't heard it, but the story is called Revenge of the Bane.

521
00:39:30.059 --> 00:39:31.500
Oh wonderful.

522
00:39:31.559 --> 00:39:35.400
I thought it was called the Revenge of Wormwood. might be right.

523
00:39:35.460 --> 00:39:36.539
You might be right.

524
00:39:37.320 --> 00:39:40.380
It's such an uncomfortable sounding name.

525
00:39:42.360 --> 00:39:45.059
Have you got your wormwood scene too?

526
00:39:46.260 --> 00:39:48.960
She actually says, doesn't she?

527
00:39:49.019 --> 00:39:52.860
I think she says where it comes from, that it's from the book of Revelation.

528
00:39:52.920 --> 00:39:56.280
Like wormwood is like what absinthe is made of.

529
00:39:56.340 --> 00:40:03.900
But it's a star in the book of Revelation that falls to the earth and poisons a 3rd of the water.

530
00:40:03.960 --> 00:40:10.019
And so that's why she's called that, but wormwood is famously a bitter plant.

531
00:40:10.139 --> 00:40:13.500
And so like, that's why that's there.

532
00:40:13.500 --> 00:40:15.659
And it's so much better than giving her a space name.

533
00:40:15.719 --> 00:40:16.860
Oh, yeah.

534
00:40:16.860 --> 00:40:18.239
Like that would have been dreadful.

535
00:40:18.300 --> 00:40:25.500
We have carg and his glorious space name and that's probably enough space names for one story. surname, isn't it?

536
00:40:25.739 --> 00:40:27.780
glorious space now.

537
00:40:55.619 --> 00:40:57.719
Well, that's all the time we had for this week.

538
00:40:57.780 --> 00:41:07.559
We'll be back next week to see how that terrifying entity on the planet Midnight gets on without any middle class daily mail readers to frighten in the well.

539
00:41:07.980 --> 00:41:24.960
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us on our website, 500yearDiary.com, where you'll find our social media links, as well as links to all of our other podcasts, including our other Doctor Who podcasts, Flight Through Entirety, and the 2nd greys and bountiful Human Empire.

540
00:41:25.440 --> 00:41:31.619
Until next time, remember that there are plenty of delicacies sweeter than the tongue of your enemy.

541
00:41:31.679 --> 00:41:34.139
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

542
00:41:34.199 --> 00:41:35.340
Bye.

543
00:41:35.460 --> 00:41:36.119
Good night.

544
00:41:36.239 --> 00:41:37.079
Ta ta.

545
00:41:49.139 --> 00:41:55.260
That was 500 year diary, starring Nathan Bottomley, Brendan Jones, Adam Richard, and James Selwood.

546
00:41:55.320 --> 00:41:57.840
The theme was composed by Cameron Lamb.

547
00:41:57.900 --> 00:42:05.519
This episode, Gloria Space Name, was recorded on the 25th of May 2025 and released on the 29th of June.

548
00:42:06.599 --> 00:42:18.360
When Samantha Bond returned to Bannerman wrote in a box set in December 2023, big finish released a lovely 6 minute interview with her that you really should watch.

549
00:42:18.420 --> 00:42:21.360
Follow the link in this week's show notes.

550
00:42:33.659 --> 00:42:37.619
I was gonna say, if you think she's bitter, maybe you should stop licking her.

551
00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:38.880
Oh my god.

552
00:42:38.940 --> 00:42:43.920
Oh my, oh my god, switch cartridges are the 3rd scheme of the bane.

553
00:42:47.760 --> 00:42:49.559
What's that about?

554
00:42:49.920 --> 00:42:56.880
Well, because switch cartridges are bitter when you lick them so that if children put them in their mouths, they spit them out.

555
00:42:56.940 --> 00:42:59.280
Oh, it's it's the reason.

556
00:42:59.340 --> 00:43:02.340
Yeah, it's like that nail polish you can put on, yeah.

557
00:43:02.400 --> 00:43:04.260
To stop your biting your nail.

558
00:43:04.320 --> 00:43:05.219
I have never done it.

559
00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:10.199
And I don't know if the new ones, because the new switch things, they don't even have the game on them.

560
00:43:10.980 --> 00:43:12.780
Some of them don't.

561
00:43:12.900 --> 00:43:17.880
Because the game is too big to fit on the country. it will be clearly on the packaging.

562
00:43:17.940 --> 00:43:18.719
Okay.

563
00:43:18.719 --> 00:43:19.860
That's not the case.

564
00:43:20.099 --> 00:43:23.820
On the topic of Boomtown that you mentioned a couple of minutes ago.

565
00:43:24.420 --> 00:43:31.800
So, yeah, I know we covered Boomtown last week, but it's interesting that when Mrs. Wormwood comes up to the attic.

566
00:43:31.920 --> 00:43:42.780
The scene really heavily mirrors the scene with Margaret coming into the Tartars in Boomtown, right down to, Oh, yeah, well, we'll turn you over to the bane.

567
00:43:42.840 --> 00:43:44.039
Yeah, well, they'll execute me.

568
00:43:44.760 --> 00:43:46.980
They'll eat me.

569
00:43:47.039 --> 00:43:52.079
And then a discussion comes up around 2nd chances and what have you.

570
00:43:52.139 --> 00:44:00.719
And, you know, instead of like Captain Jack's laser handcuffs, we've got the containment vortex, you know.

571
00:44:00.780 --> 00:44:18.599
I mean, the main difference is that Margaret does get a shot at redemption and there is there is a moment where at the end where you genuinely believe that, oh, you know, she she is actually grateful for the idea of starting over, whereas Mrs. Wormwood is like, no, evil all along.

572
00:44:20.159 --> 00:44:22.619
That's actually really wonderful.

573
00:44:22.679 --> 00:44:24.119
When Luke rejects her.

574
00:44:24.179 --> 00:44:27.659
She goes, oh, well, I'll just go back to destroying things.

575
00:44:27.719 --> 00:44:28.380
That's fun.

576
00:44:29.340 --> 00:44:32.880
Like, almost literally, she says that.

577
00:44:32.940 --> 00:44:34.500
And I think that's fabulous.

578
00:44:34.559 --> 00:44:36.300
It's just kind of like, okay, no regrets.

579
00:44:36.360 --> 00:44:39.119
I'm just going to be a fabulous villain and you do what you want.

580
00:44:39.179 --> 00:44:42.119
And I think that that is pretty great.

581
00:44:42.179 --> 00:44:52.800
There's that in that scene, you know, Margaret comes into the Tartar and goes, oh, I feel a little bit less bad about how you beat me given that you have this technology.

582
00:44:52.860 --> 00:45:06.239
And I think that Mrs. Wormwood has a similar experience, doesn't she, when she sees the computer and all of that sort of thing, that it's not quite as homegrown, you know, as she thought it was.

583
00:45:06.300 --> 00:45:07.199
Yeah.

584
00:45:07.739 --> 00:45:17.699
One of my favourite moments in this is when Sarah Jane pulls out a spare sonic lipstick and it's like, what woman only has one lipstick?

585
00:45:20.039 --> 00:45:25.920
I think the line is, you think I'm the sort of girl that only carries one.

586
00:45:26.460 --> 00:45:28.860
Awesome. glorious.

587
00:45:29.820 --> 00:45:32.159
I love stupid logic.

588
00:45:35.460 --> 00:45:43.380
I'm just imagining if, like, in one of the days that Eric Saywood was pissed off with JNG, like he just types in.

589
00:45:43.500 --> 00:45:47.460
The doctor whips out a sonic screwdriver and says to Tegan, oh yes, I built another one.

590
00:45:47.519 --> 00:45:51.179
Don't know why I didn't think of this 3 stories ago, really.

591
00:45:54.599 --> 00:45:56.099
What do you think?

592
00:45:56.159 --> 00:45:57.000
Do we have...

593
00:45:57.179 --> 00:45:59.099
Oh, we've got heaps set out?

594
00:45:59.159 --> 00:46:02.280
I think we have a I think we have a I think we've got hate.

595
00:46:02.400 --> 00:46:09.900
Oh, I just want to say one thing about the editing and pacing, and this could go back where there was deleted dialogue stuff.

596
00:46:09.960 --> 00:46:14.039
I did get the feeling watching this, that there was a lot of deleted dialogue.

597
00:46:14.099 --> 00:46:16.980
Just because there are some really odd cuts.

598
00:46:17.039 --> 00:46:18.539
Like as we go into the titles.

599
00:46:18.599 --> 00:46:24.599
Like instead of getting out a maniacal laugh, Mrs. Wormwood gets out and then, book, titles.

600
00:46:24.659 --> 00:46:25.440
And it's like...

601
00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:27.960
I kind of loved that.

602
00:46:28.500 --> 00:46:30.780
We'll take the laugh as red.

603
00:46:30.840 --> 00:46:31.559
Yeah, yeah.

604
00:46:31.800 --> 00:46:34.500
It happens to about 3 or 4 times.

605
00:46:34.559 --> 00:46:37.199
Like the end of part one, she gets cut off.

606
00:46:37.260 --> 00:46:43.920
But like looking at the episodes, they're just above 28 minutes, which I think must be the maximum for the slot.

607
00:46:43.980 --> 00:46:50.219
So I'm just imagining Graham Harper in the edit suite going, okay, no, chop that tail that.

608
00:46:50.219 --> 00:46:59.820
Like, we come in halfway through the discussion about Clyde's dad and we get the gist, but the buildup to that is actually instigated by Luke asking Clyde.

609
00:46:59.880 --> 00:47:03.719
You know, you've had your dad suddenly come back into your life.

610
00:47:03.780 --> 00:47:05.519
How should I be feeling about this?

611
00:47:05.579 --> 00:47:06.480
Oh, right.

612
00:47:06.480 --> 00:47:10.320
You know, that being said, it doesn't affect my enjoyment.

613
00:47:10.380 --> 00:47:23.699
And I don't think it would bother a kid, but just as I do work with footage and cutting stuff down and do occasionally have to go, right, we need to take out 12nd from every shot of this sequence to get it to time.

614
00:47:24.599 --> 00:47:27.599
I think perhaps I'm just more sensitive.

615
00:47:27.659 --> 00:47:28.619
So it's not a criticism.

616
00:47:28.679 --> 00:47:29.699
It's just something I observed.

617
00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:31.139
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

618
00:47:31.199 --> 00:47:41.460
It's, I mean, I feel like it makes it really lean and the judicious choices are like, we we kind of get why these things are happening.

619
00:47:41.519 --> 00:47:46.260
Like there's no there's no mistaking the the ongoing storyline.

620
00:47:46.320 --> 00:47:49.079
They could have cut half a McGuffin, and I wouldn't have cared.

621
00:47:49.139 --> 00:47:49.500
Yeah.

622
00:47:50.460 --> 00:47:53.639
I reckon that's, I think, great.

623
00:47:53.699 --> 00:47:54.000
Yeah.

624
00:47:54.059 --> 00:47:55.679
Yeah, that's that's fun.

625
00:47:55.739 --> 00:47:56.219
That's fun.