WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-03 at 08:37:23 1 00:00:33.359 --> 00:00:37.380 Hello, dear listener and welcome back to 500 Year Diary. 2 00:00:37.439 --> 00:00:41.159 The only Doctor Who podcast that just can't believe how young 3 00:00:41.159 --> 00:00:43.200 parents are on TV these days. 4 00:00:43.439 --> 00:00:45.299 I'm Nathan. 5 00:00:45.359 --> 00:00:46.380 I'm Adam. 6 00:00:46.439 --> 00:00:48.359 I'm Brendan, and I'm James. 7 00:00:48.420 --> 00:00:52.140 It's the 1st of December, 2008. 8 00:00:52.380 --> 00:00:56.340 It's been nearly 2 years since Mrs. Wormwood vowed to take revenge 9 00:00:56.340 --> 00:01:00.780 on Sarah Jane Smith for exploding her mother, and this afternoon 10 00:01:00.780 --> 00:01:04.620 the CBC audience will get to watch the 2 of them catch up again. 11 00:01:04.680 --> 00:01:09.420 But can Samantha Bond bring the Sarah Jane Adventures 1st villain 12 00:01:09.420 --> 00:01:10.019 to life again? 13 00:01:10.079 --> 00:01:13.260 Is there any point even asking that question? 14 00:01:13.319 --> 00:01:17.400 Let's find out as we discuss Enemy of the Bane. 15 00:01:33.239 --> 00:01:38.459 We have actually already talked on 500 year diary about the first 16 00:01:38.459 --> 00:01:43.739 appearance of Mrs. Wormwood in Invasion of the Bane. 17 00:01:43.799 --> 00:01:50.219 And so this is the last story of season two, episodes 11 and 12. 18 00:01:51.480 --> 00:01:55.500 It's written by Phil Ford, who is perhaps the writer that we 19 00:01:55.500 --> 00:01:58.260 associate with Sarah Jane Adventures, maybe more than anyone else 20 00:01:58.260 --> 00:02:03.239 and it's directed by Graham Harper, who I think actually directed 21 00:02:03.239 --> 00:02:04.500 Invasion of the Bane. 22 00:02:04.560 --> 00:02:08.580 And there's a real sense, and I don't know if we said this last 23 00:02:08.580 --> 00:02:14.580 time, that this show is really kind of much better than it needs 24 00:02:14.580 --> 00:02:16.800 to be in lots of ways. 25 00:02:16.860 --> 00:02:21.780 Yeah, apart from the fact that so much of the blocking and staging 26 00:02:21.780 --> 00:02:24.180 is like just whatever we can get done in the time. 27 00:02:25.500 --> 00:02:27.180 Stand in the middle. 28 00:02:27.240 --> 00:02:28.800 We don't know what's going to be going on either side. 29 00:02:30.479 --> 00:02:34.620 I mean, it is significantly cheaper, isn't it, than Doctor Who? 30 00:02:34.680 --> 00:02:35.039 Yeah. 31 00:02:35.039 --> 00:02:42.000 But, I mean, that budget still runs to, like, the big CGI Bane 32 00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:44.400 blob guys, who are actually pretty great. 33 00:02:44.460 --> 00:02:47.340 Yeah, and they're obviously already on a hard drive somewhere. 34 00:02:47.400 --> 00:02:48.479 So, you know. 35 00:02:49.259 --> 00:02:52.020 We don't have to create them from scratch. 36 00:02:52.080 --> 00:02:55.979 And then we have the big kind of portal thing at the very end 37 00:02:55.979 --> 00:03:01.800 which is massively kind of unimpressive. weirdly static and 38 00:03:01.800 --> 00:03:03.240 strange and yeah. 39 00:03:03.539 --> 00:03:08.520 But, but what we do have is a lot of actors who are, with maybe 40 00:03:08.520 --> 00:03:13.199 one exception, just doing everything properly, you've got a writer 41 00:03:13.199 --> 00:03:15.900 who kind of cares about creating something. 42 00:03:15.960 --> 00:03:20.159 You have just the most magnificent guest actor in Samantha Bond. 43 00:03:20.280 --> 00:03:22.860 The regulars are all really charming. 44 00:03:22.979 --> 00:03:27.780 We didn't have Ashley or Daniel Anthony in the episode that we 45 00:03:27.780 --> 00:03:31.800 talked about last time and they're both really great. 46 00:03:31.860 --> 00:03:34.500 Gita and Haresh are really good. 47 00:03:34.560 --> 00:03:37.620 Like, it's a properly good show, I think. 48 00:03:37.680 --> 00:03:39.419 Yeah, it's fun. 49 00:03:39.539 --> 00:03:43.139 My biggest problem, I think, is the fact that they don't have the 50 00:03:43.139 --> 00:03:43.680 budget. 51 00:03:43.740 --> 00:03:47.099 Like, you see what Graham Harper did with the 2 parter that ended 52 00:03:47.099 --> 00:03:50.219 the 2nd season of Doctor Who and you're like, oh, he can choose 53 00:03:50.219 --> 00:03:51.360 camera angles. 54 00:03:51.419 --> 00:03:55.860 He's doing interesting things with big, wide scenes and this is 55 00:03:55.860 --> 00:03:59.580 like front yard, maybe a couple of stones in a field. 56 00:04:02.039 --> 00:04:05.879 Also filming around Nicholas Courtney not being able to stand for 57 00:04:05.879 --> 00:04:07.979 very long is also... 58 00:04:08.039 --> 00:04:09.000 Yeah. 59 00:04:09.000 --> 00:04:11.879 You know, we go to the Black Archive and it's a pretty good 60 00:04:11.879 --> 00:04:14.460 looking kind of CGI building. 61 00:04:14.520 --> 00:04:19.019 But what we actually look like we're doing is that we're going to 62 00:04:19.019 --> 00:04:24.060 kind of the paper factory in Slough, you know, and like it's a red 63 00:04:24.060 --> 00:04:27.060 brick building with a sort of reception and stuff. 64 00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:28.980 You want to know what's interesting about that? 65 00:04:29.040 --> 00:04:31.199 It is actually a ministry of defence building. 66 00:04:31.319 --> 00:04:31.860 Wow. 67 00:04:31.860 --> 00:04:35.100 Not the big CG nonsense, but the red brick. 68 00:04:35.160 --> 00:04:35.879 The red brick. 69 00:04:35.939 --> 00:04:37.199 It's MOD St. 70 00:04:37.199 --> 00:04:37.680 Athens. 71 00:04:37.740 --> 00:04:39.779 It's used in Army of Ghosts. 72 00:04:39.839 --> 00:04:41.220 It's used in children of Earth. 73 00:04:41.279 --> 00:04:45.240 It's used in Planet of Vieud, and Doomsday. 74 00:04:45.300 --> 00:04:47.339 So yeah, we've got the Graham Harper connection there. 75 00:04:47.399 --> 00:04:50.220 But he found the most boring wall to film against. 76 00:04:50.279 --> 00:04:51.360 Yes. 77 00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:57.899 You could say, this is Doctor Who on a Doctor Who budget. 78 00:04:57.959 --> 00:04:58.620 It is. 79 00:04:58.680 --> 00:05:01.800 And that's kind of one of the things I love about Sarah Jane 80 00:05:01.800 --> 00:05:02.459 Adventures. 81 00:05:02.519 --> 00:05:06.000 It felt like the Doctor Who that I remember as a kid, if that 82 00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:07.199 makes sense. 83 00:05:07.199 --> 00:05:10.500 Because it had cliffhangers, for one thing. every other week. 84 00:05:10.560 --> 00:05:14.519 It was like, I think that's absolutely it. 85 00:05:14.579 --> 00:05:18.120 I mean, it really is kind of designed, I think. 86 00:05:18.180 --> 00:05:23.040 For people with kids, with sort of Doctor Who Age kids or kids the 87 00:05:23.040 --> 00:05:23.759 right age for this. 88 00:05:23.819 --> 00:05:27.540 So what's this pitched at sort of 10, 11, 12, maybe? 89 00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:28.019 Yeah. 90 00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:31.680 And then their parents who watched classic Doctor Who, or have 91 00:05:31.680 --> 00:05:34.439 some idea of classic Doctor Who, because it does have a real 92 00:05:34.439 --> 00:05:35.699 classic Doctor Who vibe. 93 00:05:35.759 --> 00:05:40.319 And I think the low budget actually does kind of help with that. 94 00:05:40.379 --> 00:05:44.459 Not to mention the cliffhangers, and the cliffhanger in this is 95 00:05:44.459 --> 00:05:46.920 really spectacularly great, isn't it? 96 00:05:46.980 --> 00:05:49.019 It's like a triple cliffhanger, isn't it? 97 00:05:49.139 --> 00:05:50.759 It's like a thing, then a thing, and then another thing. 98 00:05:50.819 --> 00:05:52.439 Yeah, yeah. 99 00:05:52.500 --> 00:05:56.220 But the great thing is that everyone's in peril in various ways 100 00:05:56.220 --> 00:06:01.319 you know, in series one of Doctor Who, they are aware of how few 101 00:06:01.319 --> 00:06:04.860 cliffhangers they have and they really try and make them count. 102 00:06:04.920 --> 00:06:08.220 And that 1st cliffhanger, which is at the end of aliens of London 103 00:06:08.279 --> 00:06:11.579 is also that. literally everyone's in peril. 104 00:06:11.639 --> 00:06:15.959 But we end on the most important person in peril, which is Jackie 105 00:06:15.959 --> 00:06:17.279 Tyler, of course. 106 00:06:19.199 --> 00:06:21.720 The person we care about. 107 00:06:21.779 --> 00:06:27.779 Here, we have everyone in peril, but the cliffhanger isn't that. 108 00:06:27.899 --> 00:06:32.519 The cliffhanger is, oh my goodness, she's teamed up with the 109 00:06:32.519 --> 00:06:34.860 Santarin from the 1st story. 110 00:06:34.980 --> 00:06:38.759 And so it becomes one of those what's going to happen now 111 00:06:38.759 --> 00:06:39.540 Cliffhangers. 112 00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:43.259 Here's a bit of information that changes what things are. 113 00:06:43.319 --> 00:06:45.899 I think it's really only at this point that we realise that the 114 00:06:45.899 --> 00:06:49.500 whole thing's a ruse and that she isn't trying to. 115 00:06:49.680 --> 00:06:53.220 So what she doing, there's some, someone was not sufficiently 116 00:06:53.220 --> 00:06:59.160 executed enough and they were split into 2 bits and she isn't 117 00:06:59.160 --> 00:07:02.459 trying to prevent the bane from getting the 2 bits she wants them 118 00:07:02.459 --> 00:07:03.420 and that's the reveal. 119 00:07:03.480 --> 00:07:05.519 Yeah It's, yeah. 120 00:07:05.579 --> 00:07:08.040 I mean, it's all McGuffin, McGuffin, McGuffin. 121 00:07:08.100 --> 00:07:10.920 What we really want is Samantha Bond being arch. 122 00:07:10.980 --> 00:07:12.480 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 123 00:07:12.540 --> 00:07:13.740 And we get it. 124 00:07:13.800 --> 00:07:17.759 I remember during the 1st season of Sarah Jane Adventures sitting 125 00:07:17.759 --> 00:07:21.660 at the pub, I think, with you, Nathan, and with our friends 126 00:07:21.660 --> 00:07:23.160 Stephen Kennedy and David Smith. 127 00:07:23.220 --> 00:07:28.019 And I think it was Stephen Kennedy who said, the great thing about 128 00:07:28.019 --> 00:07:32.459 the Sarah Jane Adventures is this feels like if when Doctor Who 129 00:07:32.459 --> 00:07:35.339 was brought back, Philip Hinchcliffe was put in charge. 130 00:07:36.060 --> 00:07:41.279 And yeah, it's that thing of not only, you know, has Mrs. Wormwood 131 00:07:41.279 --> 00:07:44.519 not been sufficiently executed enough, but we also have the 132 00:07:44.519 --> 00:07:48.120 ancient creature from 3000 years ago at a burial site. 133 00:07:48.180 --> 00:07:50.819 That is not sufficiently executed enough. 134 00:07:50.939 --> 00:07:55.019 And the burial site is in a quarry. 135 00:07:55.019 --> 00:07:58.139 And it's the same quarry that was used last week on the Sarah Jane 136 00:07:58.139 --> 00:08:01.800 Adventures in the Temptation of Sarah James Smith and on Planet of 137 00:08:01.800 --> 00:08:02.339 the Eude. 138 00:08:04.439 --> 00:08:07.079 I love a multipurpose quarry. 139 00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:13.379 I was half expecting those stones to become ogre. going. 140 00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:16.079 They were shot from so far away. 141 00:08:16.139 --> 00:08:17.759 I was like, oh, they're not there, are they? 142 00:08:20.040 --> 00:08:24.660 They're not permanent, but they are a physical prop that they did 143 00:08:24.660 --> 00:08:25.259 put that. 144 00:08:25.319 --> 00:08:26.639 Oh, they are, they agree. 145 00:08:26.759 --> 00:08:28.139 No, fibreglass. 146 00:08:28.259 --> 00:08:30.480 They are polystyrene. 147 00:08:31.379 --> 00:08:35.279 I will say, and sort of, you know, getting ahead and sort of 148 00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:36.000 rushing to the end. 149 00:08:36.059 --> 00:08:39.240 Something I thought with, oh, you know, Luke, you're human. 150 00:08:39.299 --> 00:08:40.740 So you can go inside this force field. 151 00:08:40.799 --> 00:08:43.019 It's kind of like Luke can just go in there and go, okay, I'm just 152 00:08:43.019 --> 00:08:43.559 going to stand here now. 153 00:08:43.620 --> 00:08:44.159 Yeah. 154 00:08:44.220 --> 00:08:45.899 What you going to do? 155 00:08:45.960 --> 00:08:47.639 What you going to do? 156 00:08:47.759 --> 00:08:52.259 I guess, you know, they needed to establish whether a blaster fire 157 00:08:52.259 --> 00:08:55.080 would go through the force fields, like that to work. 158 00:08:55.139 --> 00:08:55.740 Yes. 159 00:08:55.740 --> 00:08:56.039 Yeah. 160 00:08:56.100 --> 00:08:57.600 Also, he's a scared child. 161 00:08:57.659 --> 00:08:58.679 That's true. 162 00:08:58.740 --> 00:08:59.220 That's true. 163 00:08:59.279 --> 00:09:03.059 I did love that whole thing about her having a little maternal 164 00:09:03.059 --> 00:09:04.679 moment, Mrs. Wormwood. 165 00:09:04.740 --> 00:09:07.980 I think that that's actually really, really properly good. 166 00:09:07.980 --> 00:09:12.360 And that's, so like Samantha Bond was really great the 1st time 167 00:09:12.360 --> 00:09:12.840 round. 168 00:09:12.899 --> 00:09:19.200 And I guess the thing that we remember best is the confrontation 169 00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:23.759 in the office between her and Sarah Jane and where she talks about 170 00:09:23.759 --> 00:09:28.379 Sarah Jane being childless and purposeless and navigate empty life 171 00:09:28.379 --> 00:09:30.419 and all of that kind of thing. 172 00:09:30.539 --> 00:09:34.019 And there's still more of that here, isn't there? 173 00:09:34.080 --> 00:09:37.440 Because the 2 of them are fighting over Lou. 174 00:09:37.500 --> 00:09:43.259 And even though Mrs. Wormwood spends the 1st episode lying to us 175 00:09:43.259 --> 00:09:48.360 about why she's here and what she wants to do, I think that she is 176 00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:51.659 sincere when she talks about Luke. 177 00:09:51.720 --> 00:09:53.940 Like that, she's not trying to trick him. 178 00:09:54.000 --> 00:09:57.059 It's not the usual thing where the master sort of says you could 179 00:09:57.059 --> 00:10:01.259 rule by my side over the entire galaxy or whatever and but he 180 00:10:01.259 --> 00:10:04.679 intends to kind of off you within the 1st kind of week or so. 181 00:10:04.740 --> 00:10:07.200 Like, I think she means it, doesn't she? 182 00:10:07.259 --> 00:10:08.340 Like, yeah, yeah. 183 00:10:08.399 --> 00:10:13.200 And also, I love that they didn't overplay when Sarah Jane is like 184 00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:14.639 oh, Luke chose me, basically. 185 00:10:14.700 --> 00:10:15.360 Yeah, yeah. 186 00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:17.580 They don't overplay the lead up to that. 187 00:10:17.639 --> 00:10:20.639 We don't get 40 minutes of her hand ringing going, will he choose 188 00:10:20.639 --> 00:10:24.600 me, which I feel we would have gotten in a more modern episode of 189 00:10:24.600 --> 00:10:25.259 Doctor Who. 190 00:10:25.320 --> 00:10:28.559 Yeah, I mean, I think that just works incredibly well. 191 00:10:28.620 --> 00:10:30.419 And it's the sort of thing that a child can understand. 192 00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:35.820 So the central thing becomes about his 2 mothers, his birth mother 193 00:10:35.820 --> 00:10:39.179 and what is it that makes a mother? 194 00:10:39.240 --> 00:10:43.440 And I think that that's something that is absolutely pitched at 195 00:10:43.440 --> 00:10:46.740 the audience, like the main audience, something that they're going 196 00:10:46.740 --> 00:10:47.340 to understand. 197 00:10:47.399 --> 00:10:51.120 So all of the science fiction stuff, which is great, and, you know 198 00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:53.879 Samantha Bond sort of arch villain performance is also really 199 00:10:53.879 --> 00:10:57.779 fantastic, but there is a central comprehensible emotional chord 200 00:10:57.779 --> 00:11:01.500 of the story that speaks to the concerns of the main audience. 201 00:11:01.559 --> 00:11:03.419 I just think it's really well charged. 202 00:11:03.720 --> 00:11:05.700 Yeah, it's really sweet. 203 00:11:05.759 --> 00:11:09.480 Weirdly, when I was like, oh, I don't think I've seen this one 204 00:11:09.480 --> 00:11:12.240 when I started watching it, and then the brigadier and this on 205 00:11:12.240 --> 00:11:14.940 Tara turned up, I'm like, no, I've definitely seen this one. 206 00:11:15.000 --> 00:11:16.980 I remember the brigadier and the Santara. 207 00:11:17.039 --> 00:11:20.399 How did I blank out everything else and I think that's that weird 208 00:11:20.399 --> 00:11:24.419 thing we have with Doctor Who where you go. you remember it, like 209 00:11:24.419 --> 00:11:25.919 friends episode titles. 210 00:11:25.980 --> 00:11:27.600 It's like the one with. 211 00:11:28.019 --> 00:11:31.740 And you don't go further than the one with the brigadier and the 212 00:11:31.740 --> 00:11:33.480 Santara. other things might have happened. 213 00:11:33.539 --> 00:11:34.139 I don't remember. 214 00:11:34.860 --> 00:11:40.019 For me, it was always the one where Carg and Mrs. Wormwood team 215 00:11:40.019 --> 00:11:44.879 are because that is such a random... like, you know, it's like the 216 00:11:44.879 --> 00:11:47.039 Riddler and the Joker teaming up. 217 00:11:47.100 --> 00:11:50.639 You know, like it's an absolute kids show thing. 218 00:11:50.700 --> 00:11:55.559 Two villains from one from The Pilot and one from the beginning of 219 00:11:55.559 --> 00:11:56.100 this season. 220 00:11:56.159 --> 00:12:01.559 Both team up to get revenge on Sarah Jane, which I just think is 221 00:12:01.559 --> 00:12:05.279 fabulous and absolutely part of the genre and is cheesy as hell 222 00:12:05.340 --> 00:12:07.559 terrific, terrific staff. 223 00:12:07.620 --> 00:12:09.960 And he's really good as well. 224 00:12:10.019 --> 00:12:11.460 I think he's great. 225 00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:15.539 Um, not a Santaran that we've seen from the parent show at all. 226 00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:20.340 I mean, it was offered to both of those actors, the role, and they 227 00:12:20.340 --> 00:12:22.139 were busy or turned it down. 228 00:12:22.200 --> 00:12:23.820 Oh, it could have been one of them. 229 00:12:25.679 --> 00:12:30.000 I do want to give a shout out in particular to Anthony O'Donnell 230 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:35.159 because he is in his late 50s when he takes on this role. 231 00:12:35.279 --> 00:12:36.419 Right. 232 00:12:36.419 --> 00:12:37.919 And he's doing all the running around. 233 00:12:37.980 --> 00:12:40.379 And there's one bit, I think it's the bit where he knocks Luke to 234 00:12:40.379 --> 00:12:43.320 the ground, like he, you know, trips him over and you get a sort 235 00:12:43.320 --> 00:12:47.639 of side profile view of him and he's a lot more solid than 236 00:12:47.639 --> 00:12:51.179 Christopher Ryan or Dan Starkey. 237 00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:53.879 Like, you know, he looks like a rugby player. 238 00:12:54.480 --> 00:12:56.279 He is Welsh. 239 00:12:56.399 --> 00:12:57.360 He is Welsh. 240 00:12:57.419 --> 00:13:03.480 Listeners, listeners to our old Bond podcast, Bondfinger, may 241 00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:07.259 recognise Anthony O'Donnell as the man in Skyfall, who observes 242 00:13:07.259 --> 00:13:12.000 Bond rushing and jumping onto a tube train and saying, he's in a 243 00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:12.659 hurry to get home. 244 00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:16.559 That's it. 245 00:13:17.759 --> 00:13:21.840 In his signature role as man, I think. 246 00:13:22.019 --> 00:13:23.279 Yeah. 247 00:13:23.279 --> 00:13:26.460 Train passenger. number two. 248 00:13:27.659 --> 00:13:32.519 I once got casters villain number 2 and then villain number one 249 00:13:32.519 --> 00:13:34.799 didn't turn up and so I got to be villain number one. 250 00:13:34.860 --> 00:13:35.759 Right. 251 00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:36.600 Well done. 252 00:13:37.320 --> 00:13:39.240 Student production. 253 00:13:39.299 --> 00:13:41.279 Yeah, that really beefed up that idea. 254 00:13:51.419 --> 00:13:55.500 Something I find really interesting about Anthony O'Donnell's 255 00:13:55.500 --> 00:14:00.240 performance is it's not a comedy performance in the same way that 256 00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:05.279 Christopher Ryan and Dan Starkey sort of do in the Santar and 2 257 00:14:04.559 --> 00:14:06.779 parter, and that's not a criticism of them. 258 00:14:06.840 --> 00:14:09.360 You know, we've talked before about the Santarans are meant to be 259 00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:09.659 funny. 260 00:14:10.019 --> 00:14:13.559 Anthony O'Donnell plays it really seriously. 261 00:14:13.620 --> 00:14:18.240 And I think that helps because I think if he was being quite arch 262 00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:18.659 as well. 263 00:14:18.720 --> 00:14:23.519 It would take away from Samantha Bond's performance. whereas he 264 00:14:23.519 --> 00:14:26.039 has to be a sort of more credible, more physical threat. 265 00:14:26.100 --> 00:14:31.259 It's just such an interesting choice to have him in the kids' show 266 00:14:31.259 --> 00:14:34.980 of the Doctor Who universe at this point be a really quite 267 00:14:34.980 --> 00:14:36.720 menacing figure. 268 00:14:36.779 --> 00:14:41.879 Whereas in the main show, you've got Comedy Sontara saying, oh 269 00:14:41.879 --> 00:14:43.679 humans all look the same to us. do you mean? 270 00:14:43.860 --> 00:14:47.700 It's kind of weird that they're treated as comedic. 271 00:14:47.759 --> 00:14:51.779 I don't know if it's because Russell T Davis is quite tall, but 272 00:14:51.779 --> 00:14:54.299 it's almost like, oh, short people are all ridiculous. 273 00:14:54.360 --> 00:14:55.860 Yes, make fun of them. 274 00:14:56.759 --> 00:15:00.779 Whereas this is like, this is like, 0 no, this is someone with 275 00:15:00.779 --> 00:15:01.919 Napoleonic syndrome. 276 00:15:01.980 --> 00:15:04.259 This is like an angry, small man. 277 00:15:04.320 --> 00:15:08.700 I saw a great production of Romeo and Juliet once and Tybalt was 278 00:15:08.700 --> 00:15:10.860 cast as like this short, muscly guy. 279 00:15:10.919 --> 00:15:14.340 And I was like, oh, that makes so much more sense. 280 00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:19.139 There's a real threat. 281 00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:21.840 Like, Mrs. Wormwood, at some point, comments on the fact that this 282 00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:26.580 is sparring between 2 women to kind of middle-aged women and we 283 00:15:26.580 --> 00:15:30.659 need like a masculine figure in here to kind of sort it out and 284 00:15:30.659 --> 00:15:32.100 then the Santaran comes in. 285 00:15:32.159 --> 00:15:35.279 But you also get Clyde talking about a story just a couple of 286 00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:38.279 episodes ago called Mark of the Berserker, which involved his 287 00:15:38.279 --> 00:15:41.639 father, and his father being violent. 288 00:15:41.700 --> 00:15:47.279 And so, you know, again, there's something there that the show is 289 00:15:47.279 --> 00:15:49.740 not afraid to touch on. 290 00:15:49.799 --> 00:15:54.240 But I do think that he just needs to play it straight because she 291 00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:56.220 doesn't. 292 00:15:57.120 --> 00:15:59.820 And you don't want them competing. 293 00:15:59.879 --> 00:16:00.240 I think. 294 00:16:00.299 --> 00:16:04.440 Yeah, also, as Brendan said, he's an older gentleman who is under 295 00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:06.179 7 kilos of latex. 296 00:16:06.840 --> 00:16:10.860 And it's just like, this is all I can manage, right? 297 00:16:12.539 --> 00:16:15.120 There's something about his teeth. 298 00:16:15.179 --> 00:16:19.379 Like they're sort of crooked or something and it's just a really 299 00:16:19.379 --> 00:16:20.220 really strong look. 300 00:16:20.279 --> 00:16:21.899 Like, I think he looks great. 301 00:16:21.960 --> 00:16:23.820 I think he looks properly menacing. 302 00:16:23.879 --> 00:16:25.139 It's been a weird scar. 303 00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:26.100 Yeah, the scar. 304 00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:28.259 It's been a long time since I've seen it. 305 00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:32.460 So it was called the Last Santarin, and it was the two-part 306 00:16:32.460 --> 00:16:36.720 opening story for this season, in which Chrissy is written out of 307 00:16:36.720 --> 00:16:39.419 the show and some other characters leave, I think, as well. 308 00:16:41.340 --> 00:16:46.200 No, Chrissy and Maria and Alan are all written out in the sort of 309 00:16:46.200 --> 00:16:48.600 Santaran 2 parter at the start of the show. 310 00:16:48.659 --> 00:16:55.379 And he is a Santaran who is left over from the series 4 Santaran 2 311 00:16:55.379 --> 00:16:57.840 Parta, which was just screened a few months earlier. 312 00:16:57.899 --> 00:17:01.860 So it's kind of like a spinoff or a continuation almost. 313 00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:02.159 Yeah. 314 00:17:02.279 --> 00:17:04.799 Yeah, and again, I think there's something really warm about 315 00:17:04.799 --> 00:17:05.339 that. 316 00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:09.240 The show acknowledging the parent show because the kids are 317 00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:12.539 watching the parent show because at this point everyone's watching 318 00:17:12.539 --> 00:17:13.799 it. everyone is. 319 00:17:13.859 --> 00:17:20.039 And so this is something for them, just for them that hooks into 320 00:17:20.039 --> 00:17:24.000 the show before we consider having the doctor himself sort of 321 00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:25.019 coming to visit, I think. 322 00:17:25.079 --> 00:17:27.900 More of a spud off than a spinoff. 323 00:17:33.059 --> 00:17:37.259 I love Nathan, that you're concerned for who's being written out 324 00:17:37.259 --> 00:17:38.519 is one of the mums. 325 00:17:38.759 --> 00:17:40.500 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 326 00:17:40.559 --> 00:17:41.579 But it's crazy. 327 00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:45.599 I mean, all the mums, all of the mums. 328 00:17:45.660 --> 00:17:51.420 But Chrissy actually gets a high heel shoe into the Santari 329 00:17:51.420 --> 00:17:52.619 probing fan. 330 00:17:53.579 --> 00:17:56.880 She defeats it and she also walks off and says, you know I know 331 00:17:56.880 --> 00:18:01.920 what's been going on. so good. 332 00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:06.359 And it is exactly what I've always said about when I heard that 333 00:18:06.359 --> 00:18:08.279 Billy Piper was leaving Doctor Who. 334 00:18:08.339 --> 00:18:10.859 I went, oh my god, what will happen to Camille? 335 00:18:10.920 --> 00:18:15.119 And it is exactly the same feeling when Maria. 336 00:18:15.180 --> 00:18:16.500 And I like Maria. 337 00:18:16.559 --> 00:18:18.720 I actually think Maria is pretty good. 338 00:18:18.779 --> 00:18:24.599 It's really good having an actual kid as the star of this kid's 339 00:18:24.599 --> 00:18:24.960 show. 340 00:18:25.019 --> 00:18:27.839 I thought she was, you know, she performed really well. 341 00:18:27.900 --> 00:18:28.500 I thought she was great. 342 00:18:28.559 --> 00:18:32.279 She's not actually Mohindra, who is really just superb, but is 343 00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:34.980 who's a 20s and very tall. 344 00:18:35.039 --> 00:18:36.420 And very taller than everyone else. 345 00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:39.779 Samantha Bond actually gets to say that. 346 00:18:39.839 --> 00:18:43.079 Okay, it's to mention how much taller she is than her 347 00:18:43.079 --> 00:18:44.039 predecessor. 348 00:18:44.099 --> 00:18:48.420 But, you know, like I was just sort of a bit sad that she was 349 00:18:48.420 --> 00:18:49.140 going to leave. 350 00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:52.380 So there are a couple of half forms in a 3 quarter form. 351 00:18:52.500 --> 00:18:53.700 Yeah, basically. 352 00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:57.059 A one. 5 form. 353 00:18:58.019 --> 00:19:02.640 And then the other people that we haven't mentioned, like Gita 354 00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:06.960 who's played by Mina Anwar is just absolutely superb. amazing. 355 00:19:07.019 --> 00:19:10.920 We already praised her appearance in Smile, in that tiny scene at 356 00:19:10.920 --> 00:19:13.799 the beginning of Smile when we talked about that on Flight Through 357 00:19:13.799 --> 00:19:14.279 Entirety. 358 00:19:14.339 --> 00:19:18.299 I mean, she's just so magnificent and she's ridiculously young in 359 00:19:18.299 --> 00:19:19.200 this, isn't she? 360 00:19:19.259 --> 00:19:20.940 Like they're so young. 361 00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:27.539 Like she feels like she could be her daughter's sister. like 362 00:19:27.539 --> 00:19:28.200 legitimately. 363 00:19:28.920 --> 00:19:31.259 It's really something. 364 00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:35.339 She's so funny. and funny in a completely different way from 365 00:19:35.339 --> 00:19:39.180 Chrissy and adorable, just absolutely loveable. 366 00:19:39.240 --> 00:19:43.440 And, you know, the genius of this is that you can threaten the 367 00:19:43.440 --> 00:19:46.799 parents, that you can put the parents in peril in the show. 368 00:19:46.859 --> 00:19:48.420 The kids know what's happening. 369 00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:50.819 The parents are kind of unwitting. 370 00:19:50.819 --> 00:19:55.740 And so we start with, you know, Mrs. Wormwood visiting the flower 371 00:19:55.740 --> 00:19:56.279 shop. 372 00:19:56.339 --> 00:20:00.000 Oh my god, that has a stupid pun name, which I adore. 373 00:20:02.819 --> 00:20:08.099 I couldn't get over that handwriting font that the window. 374 00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:10.859 It's just like so period. 375 00:20:12.180 --> 00:20:15.000 It's not as bad as the bubble shock font. 376 00:20:15.059 --> 00:20:16.079 No, that's true. 377 00:20:19.140 --> 00:20:23.039 Which looked like everything on Canva. exactly. 378 00:20:26.099 --> 00:20:31.500 Something amazing about the blooming lovely scenes is for the 379 00:20:31.500 --> 00:20:32.519 night scenes. 380 00:20:32.759 --> 00:20:36.660 They literally just put up a tent outside to block the sunlight. 381 00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:37.740 Great. 382 00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:41.279 And then after they'd done that, they pulled the tent down and did 383 00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:42.599 the day scenes in the shop. 384 00:20:42.660 --> 00:20:44.099 Amazing. love it. 385 00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:50.640 The other thing I love about the bloom and lovely scenes is when 386 00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:55.500 everyone except Luke gets knocked out, you cut away, I think you 387 00:20:55.500 --> 00:20:59.460 show Ansley or Danny Anthony falling down. 388 00:20:59.579 --> 00:21:03.059 And then when you cut back, you can just see that Nick is sitting 389 00:21:03.059 --> 00:21:03.660 in a chair. 390 00:21:03.720 --> 00:21:08.759 It's like, yeah, they're conveniently positioned a chair for the 391 00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:12.240 brig to fall into and just probably gone. 392 00:21:12.299 --> 00:21:14.279 Now, now, I'm just about to grab Papa. 393 00:21:14.339 --> 00:21:15.720 Now, Nick, don't actually fall over. 394 00:21:15.779 --> 00:21:18.000 We don't have the insurance. 395 00:21:18.059 --> 00:21:20.400 We're just going to cut away and you're going to sit in the 396 00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:20.640 chair. 397 00:21:20.700 --> 00:21:21.119 It's fine. 398 00:21:21.180 --> 00:21:21.539 It fine. 399 00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:22.019 It's fine. 400 00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:22.680 Make magic. 401 00:21:22.740 --> 00:21:23.099 Let's go. 402 00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:27.599 I love that several of his scenes take place just in a car with 403 00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:28.980 other people not in the car. 404 00:21:30.539 --> 00:21:34.380 It's like, how do we accommodate the blocking here? 405 00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:35.099 Just leave him. 406 00:21:35.700 --> 00:21:41.460 So he was originally going to be Martha, of course, who has joined 407 00:21:41.460 --> 00:21:46.380 unit, but she was unavailable and we can blame Chris Chibnall 408 00:21:46.380 --> 00:21:49.500 because she was doing Law and Order UK. 409 00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:53.640 So the decision to do him, this is his last appearance as the 410 00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:54.960 brigadier on television. 411 00:21:55.380 --> 00:21:56.940 So glorious. 412 00:21:56.940 --> 00:22:02.759 Yeah. it really is rather wonderful to have him on this show. 413 00:22:02.819 --> 00:22:03.660 Again. 414 00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:09.000 One of the things that this era of Doctor Who does is it 415 00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:14.220 introduces a whole new generation to all of the nonsense that 416 00:22:14.220 --> 00:22:16.079 we've been obsessed with for decades. 417 00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:21.900 And so it's Dalek, Cybermen, the Master, the Santarans, you know 418 00:22:21.900 --> 00:22:24.180 Davros, all come back. 419 00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:27.180 And so we get the brigadier as well. 420 00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:28.380 And he's been mentioned. 421 00:22:28.440 --> 00:22:33.660 He was not available because he was in Peru, I think, during the 422 00:22:33.660 --> 00:22:37.440 Santaran 2 parter in series four. 423 00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:43.980 So that's great because they actually make him being in Peru in 424 00:22:43.980 --> 00:22:47.220 the Sultan two-parter into a plot by the Bang. 425 00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:48.180 Yeah, yeah. 426 00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:49.319 That's fantastic. 427 00:22:50.460 --> 00:22:55.140 So in fact, the kids watching this know more about that two-part 428 00:22:55.140 --> 00:22:58.619 story than everyone else, which is wonderful. absolutely 429 00:22:58.619 --> 00:22:59.220 brilliant. 430 00:22:59.279 --> 00:23:00.000 Yeah. 431 00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:04.740 There's actually deleted dialogue where when Major Kilburn asks 432 00:23:04.740 --> 00:23:08.220 him about his mission in Peru. brigadier very angrily replies. 433 00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:11.579 The Chupacabra is an urban legend. 434 00:23:11.640 --> 00:23:12.180 Nothing more. 435 00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:15.000 Doesn't unit have enough aliens to shoot at these days without 436 00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:16.019 chasing shadows? 437 00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:18.059 Wonderful. 438 00:23:18.119 --> 00:23:19.980 I wish they'd let that in. 439 00:23:20.880 --> 00:23:22.680 That's awesome. 440 00:23:22.740 --> 00:23:23.700 Here's the thing. 441 00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:26.700 And the viewer at home can't see this, but I have the Sarah Jane 442 00:23:26.700 --> 00:23:29.519 Smith companion here from Doctor Who magazine here. 443 00:23:29.579 --> 00:23:33.839 This whole blue page here is deleted dialogue. from this story. 444 00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:36.420 We're talking like size 8 font. 445 00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:41.099 I suspect it was a lot of, you know, they're in such a hurry. 446 00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:44.519 It's like, yeah, you fluff the name of that gobbledy-gook. 447 00:23:44.579 --> 00:23:45.420 We'll just move that. 448 00:23:46.440 --> 00:23:49.440 The brigadier probably couldn't say... 449 00:23:50.220 --> 00:23:56.519 Well, they also gave him an explanation to spout out for why he's 450 00:23:56.519 --> 00:23:57.059 using a cane. 451 00:23:57.119 --> 00:24:00.059 Ruddy Catabakuda, stinger in my leg. 452 00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:02.880 It's good for nothing but a doorstop for the last 15 years. 453 00:24:02.940 --> 00:24:06.059 And yeah, I think they just came down on the fact of, no, he's 454 00:24:06.059 --> 00:24:06.359 just old. 455 00:24:06.420 --> 00:24:07.440 He can just have a cane. 456 00:24:07.500 --> 00:24:08.039 It's fine. 457 00:24:14.099 --> 00:24:16.680 And just the warmth between the 2 of them as well. 458 00:24:16.740 --> 00:24:20.099 Like his photos on her wall in the attic, I think, isn't it? 459 00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:22.619 Like there's photos of Harry and there's photos of the brigadier 460 00:24:22.619 --> 00:24:23.099 and stuff. 461 00:24:23.160 --> 00:24:26.940 But just seeing those 2 reunited on television in a way that you 462 00:24:26.940 --> 00:24:28.619 just never, ever expected to happen. 463 00:24:28.680 --> 00:24:30.960 I think is so great. 464 00:24:31.079 --> 00:24:34.920 It adds so much to their relationship as well. 465 00:24:34.980 --> 00:24:37.079 Like, they really don't have that much of a relationship in 466 00:24:37.079 --> 00:24:38.519 classic Doctor Who. 467 00:24:38.579 --> 00:24:41.099 Yeah, they're in a, what, 2 or 3 stories together. 468 00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:44.819 You know, like they're, they're, they're acquaintances. 469 00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:46.920 They're not even really colleagues. 470 00:24:46.980 --> 00:24:48.420 She didn't work for units. 471 00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:51.839 Um, you know, they're writing unit out in the season she's 472 00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:52.440 introduced in. 473 00:24:52.500 --> 00:24:55.140 So, like, they appear in a few stories, then another few with 474 00:24:55.140 --> 00:24:55.680 Tom. 475 00:24:55.740 --> 00:25:00.180 But this actually shows that they had a relationship after the 476 00:25:00.180 --> 00:25:04.140 show and that they kept in touch and that they value each other as 477 00:25:04.140 --> 00:25:05.460 friends. 478 00:25:05.519 --> 00:25:06.299 It's really sweet. 479 00:25:06.359 --> 00:25:09.660 I like the line where she says that she never had the security 480 00:25:09.660 --> 00:25:14.819 clearance that her own memoirs have. because she's just some 481 00:25:14.819 --> 00:25:18.299 journalist who's hanging around for no reason and there's that 482 00:25:18.299 --> 00:25:21.960 wonderful thing in robot where the brigadier says, I actually 483 00:25:21.960 --> 00:25:25.079 don't know why I'm telling you all of this because you're just 484 00:25:25.079 --> 00:25:27.539 some rando friend of the doctor. 485 00:25:28.619 --> 00:25:32.400 So like all of that was so tremendous. 486 00:25:32.460 --> 00:25:36.779 And I do think, though, those scenes are spoiled somewhat. by just 487 00:25:36.779 --> 00:25:42.420 an inexplicably badly judged performance by the actor who plays 488 00:25:42.420 --> 00:25:44.039 Kilburn. 489 00:25:44.099 --> 00:25:46.980 Yeah, he's giving a kids TV show performance. 490 00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:48.000 Exactly. 491 00:25:48.059 --> 00:25:48.720 Yeah. 492 00:25:48.779 --> 00:25:51.960 And it highlights that everyone else isn't doing that, that 493 00:25:51.960 --> 00:25:54.779 everyone else isn't doing a kid's TV performance. 494 00:25:54.839 --> 00:25:57.119 They are, in a sense, they're doing a classic Doctor Who 495 00:25:57.119 --> 00:26:00.839 performance where it is slightly bigger, like it is hyper real. 496 00:26:00.900 --> 00:26:02.519 You know, it's not prestige TV. 497 00:26:02.579 --> 00:26:05.819 It is still just a kids show and it sort of tends towards 498 00:26:05.819 --> 00:26:08.460 melodrama the way that the parent show does. 499 00:26:08.519 --> 00:26:10.980 But he's doing something completely different. 500 00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:14.759 I think that's the point with Sarah Jane Benches. 501 00:26:14.759 --> 00:26:18.299 For the most part, it is played not straight, but it's played. 502 00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:22.380 It's played in a in a way which, like you say, is melt dramatic 503 00:26:22.380 --> 00:26:24.359 but it's not kids show acting. 504 00:26:24.420 --> 00:26:27.839 It's heightened, but it's they're taking it seriously. 505 00:26:27.900 --> 00:26:28.680 Yeah. 506 00:26:28.740 --> 00:26:35.220 So you've got these 2 spectacular women playing really straight 507 00:26:35.220 --> 00:26:40.440 this ludicrous storyline, you know, absolutely out of the box 508 00:26:40.440 --> 00:26:45.779 craziness, and he's come into mansplain how to perform this 509 00:26:45.779 --> 00:26:46.259 script. 510 00:26:47.940 --> 00:26:51.000 And it's like, look who you're up against. 511 00:26:51.059 --> 00:26:52.859 Like, these women know what they're doing. 512 00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:56.880 Like, don't come in and pretend like you know better because, oh, I 513 00:26:56.880 --> 00:27:00.299 know how to play this craziness and it's like, no, no, these, these 514 00:27:00.299 --> 00:27:02.400 2 have been doing this for years. know what's going on. 515 00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:07.859 He could have been properly menacing because, you know, he is 516 00:27:07.859 --> 00:27:08.880 already a threat. 517 00:27:08.940 --> 00:27:12.059 I mean, part of the problem is that the performance spoils the 518 00:27:12.059 --> 00:27:12.420 reveal. 519 00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:15.000 Like the moment he starts acting like this, you know that he's a 520 00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:15.599 bane, right? 521 00:27:15.660 --> 00:27:19.920 Yeah, so that reveal gets spoiled, I think, by that performance. 522 00:27:19.980 --> 00:27:22.559 But also he's still a proper threat. 523 00:27:22.619 --> 00:27:24.960 And he is an antagonist. 524 00:27:25.019 --> 00:27:29.640 And had he been someone who was a little bit more credible, that 525 00:27:29.640 --> 00:27:33.599 would have been more interesting and then the discovery that he's 526 00:27:33.599 --> 00:27:34.200 a bane. 527 00:27:34.259 --> 00:27:37.319 And he could have been a properly scary bane as well. 528 00:27:37.380 --> 00:27:41.339 Generally the Bane, you know, comedy gloop monsters and stuff like 529 00:27:41.339 --> 00:27:41.579 that. 530 00:27:41.640 --> 00:27:44.579 We even have the fabulous thing of exploding them all over the 531 00:27:44.579 --> 00:27:45.480 kids, you know. 532 00:27:45.539 --> 00:27:51.119 Oh my god, weird custard explosions. on television. 533 00:27:52.019 --> 00:27:57.000 But I mean, we had the Slovene doing that in the parent show a few 534 00:27:57.000 --> 00:27:57.900 years ago as well. 535 00:27:57.960 --> 00:27:59.160 They had noodles in them. 536 00:28:03.599 --> 00:28:05.039 But like that's fun. 537 00:28:05.099 --> 00:28:07.259 All of that stuff is really terrifically fun. 538 00:28:07.380 --> 00:28:09.000 But he's not fun. 539 00:28:09.059 --> 00:28:13.980 He's just not fun to watch So he's he's Simon Chadwick, and it's 540 00:28:13.980 --> 00:28:15.720 been bothering me since I rewatched this. 541 00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:17.759 I'm like, I know I recognise him from somewhere. 542 00:28:17.819 --> 00:28:19.019 I know I recognise him from somewhere. 543 00:28:19.079 --> 00:28:22.680 James, if I were to say the words coupling and rump. 544 00:28:22.740 --> 00:28:23.460 Really? 545 00:28:23.519 --> 00:28:28.559 He is Sally's butcher boyfriend in the coupling episode the man 546 00:28:28.559 --> 00:28:29.339 with 2 legs. 547 00:28:43.019 --> 00:28:49.440 I misremembered this episode in that because of this performance 548 00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:53.819 from him, I actually assumed that we always knew that he was a 549 00:28:53.819 --> 00:28:59.640 bank. the reveal that he was a Bane was at the beginning of the 550 00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:00.119 story. 551 00:29:00.180 --> 00:29:06.240 So because of the largeness of his performance, it ruins it, but I 552 00:29:06.240 --> 00:29:09.599 actually also had a memory cheats moment with that because that 553 00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:10.019 acting. 554 00:29:10.140 --> 00:29:13.799 I think I had a similar thing where I said, oh, he's a bane, and 555 00:29:13.799 --> 00:29:15.180 then it just kept going. 556 00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:18.000 You know, I thought, oh, okay, maybe I'm misremembering it. 557 00:29:18.059 --> 00:29:19.319 It's just a terrible performance. 558 00:29:19.380 --> 00:29:21.720 But turns out it was both. 559 00:29:22.200 --> 00:29:26.579 When you said earlier, apart from one performance, everyone's 560 00:29:26.579 --> 00:29:26.700 good. 561 00:29:26.759 --> 00:29:28.920 I'm like, I can't remember anyone being bad. 562 00:29:28.980 --> 00:29:31.500 And then you bring him up, I'm like, oh, yeah, I blocked him out. 563 00:29:31.559 --> 00:29:32.700 I only watched it yesterday. 564 00:29:35.759 --> 00:29:39.480 You know, I think he's also kind of like the Grand Serpent in flux 565 00:29:39.480 --> 00:29:42.240 not in terms of performance, I think, the Grand Serpent's 566 00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:42.960 performance is brilliant. 567 00:29:43.019 --> 00:29:45.480 But he's just, he's just one villain too many. 568 00:29:45.539 --> 00:29:46.680 Yeah. 569 00:29:46.740 --> 00:29:48.960 He's the Sandman in Spider-Man 3. 570 00:29:49.140 --> 00:29:49.740 Yeah. 571 00:29:49.740 --> 00:29:53.460 Irritating, of course, and gets everywhere. 572 00:29:53.519 --> 00:29:53.759 Yeah. 573 00:29:54.839 --> 00:29:57.180 Terrible in the underpants. 574 00:29:58.920 --> 00:30:04.920 It could be a casualty of rapidly rewriting the scripts because 575 00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:07.500 you know, earlier on, Nathan, when you said this was originally 576 00:30:07.500 --> 00:30:11.880 meant to be Martha, Nicholas Courtney was cast on 5 days notice. 577 00:30:11.940 --> 00:30:16.619 Wow, okay. kind of the offer came in for Freeman and she just 578 00:30:16.619 --> 00:30:18.839 called the production office and she's like, I can't turn this 579 00:30:18.839 --> 00:30:19.079 down. 580 00:30:19.140 --> 00:30:21.660 It's a lead role in a major show. 581 00:30:21.720 --> 00:30:25.019 And Russell's like, yep, of course, you know, we'll figure it 582 00:30:25.019 --> 00:30:25.259 out. 583 00:30:25.319 --> 00:30:29.880 And kudos to Nick for basically being told, so you're our 2nd 584 00:30:29.880 --> 00:30:30.299 choice. 585 00:30:31.500 --> 00:30:34.680 Can you get down to Carter for a costume fitting? 586 00:30:34.740 --> 00:30:36.420 He's like, of bloody course I can. 587 00:30:37.680 --> 00:30:40.799 I mean, he would have thought he'd like practically retired at 588 00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:41.579 this point, wouldn't he? 589 00:30:41.640 --> 00:30:43.920 Yeah, just big finishing conventions at this point. 590 00:30:43.980 --> 00:30:44.819 Yeah. 591 00:30:44.880 --> 00:30:46.740 I guess 3 years before he passed away. 592 00:30:46.799 --> 00:30:49.140 Like he's quite, you know, senior. 593 00:30:49.559 --> 00:30:52.799 It's the wedding of River Song, isn't it? 594 00:30:52.859 --> 00:30:58.920 The finale to series 6 where the doctor learns that the brigadier 595 00:30:58.920 --> 00:30:59.339 has died. 596 00:30:59.640 --> 00:31:03.420 So it is sort of quite soon after this, I think. 597 00:31:03.480 --> 00:31:07.200 Like, yeah, I'm just glad that we had it. 598 00:31:07.259 --> 00:31:11.160 It was so nice and I'd forgotten. when I watched this that he was 599 00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:13.980 in it and was so excited to see him again. 600 00:31:14.220 --> 00:31:19.079 I did actually go to a convention in the UK around the time this 601 00:31:19.079 --> 00:31:23.220 went out and Nick was there as one of the guests. 602 00:31:23.279 --> 00:31:27.720 And my main memory of it is he and Silv were meant to be on an 603 00:31:27.720 --> 00:31:30.299 interview panel, but Nick's autograph queue was running along. 604 00:31:30.359 --> 00:31:31.140 So he was a bit late. 605 00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:33.180 But the interviewer also didn't show up. 606 00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:38.940 And so Silv is running around with the microphone like he was a 607 00:31:38.940 --> 00:31:40.380 bit more... 608 00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:45.960 And Nick wanders in after about 10 minutes with a pint and says, oh 609 00:31:45.960 --> 00:31:47.460 oh, so what are you doing? 610 00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:48.000 What are you doing? 611 00:31:48.059 --> 00:31:50.039 Oh, the interviewer hasn't turned up, Nick. 612 00:31:50.099 --> 00:31:50.700 So I'm running around. 613 00:31:50.759 --> 00:31:53.099 You go sit down and I'll get questions for you. 614 00:31:53.160 --> 00:31:53.700 Oh. 615 00:31:53.759 --> 00:31:54.839 Oh, all right. 616 00:31:54.900 --> 00:31:56.339 All right. 617 00:31:56.400 --> 00:32:00.059 And so Nick goes up to the stage and Sills fielding the questions 618 00:32:00.059 --> 00:32:03.059 for him. 10 minutes later, the interviewer comes in and Nick's 619 00:32:03.059 --> 00:32:03.960 like, oh, hello. 620 00:32:04.019 --> 00:32:05.759 And still says, no, we don't need you. 621 00:32:05.819 --> 00:32:06.359 We're doing fine. 622 00:32:06.420 --> 00:32:06.660 Thank you. 623 00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:07.019 Goodbye. 624 00:32:09.240 --> 00:32:12.599 And he's like, oh, no, no, no, come on, come up, dear boy. 625 00:32:12.660 --> 00:32:12.960 Come on. 626 00:32:13.019 --> 00:32:13.619 Yes, you know. 627 00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:20.460 So he was the 1st convention guest that I ever saw, and it was the 628 00:32:20.460 --> 00:32:24.900 1st convention I ever went to, and it was in the very late 80s, and 629 00:32:24.900 --> 00:32:28.140 we had just seen Battlefield. 630 00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:30.720 So it must be 8990 or something like that. 631 00:32:30.900 --> 00:32:34.619 And it was at Sydney University, which is where I was. 632 00:32:34.619 --> 00:32:36.720 Stephen Roberts, Stephen Roberts Theatre. 633 00:32:36.779 --> 00:32:38.519 I was there, I remember it was demolished. 634 00:32:38.579 --> 00:32:39.660 The theatre. 635 00:32:39.720 --> 00:32:40.559 Not the convention. 636 00:32:40.680 --> 00:32:42.000 No. 637 00:32:42.420 --> 00:32:49.140 And everyone wanted to ask him about Anselon because he's terribly 638 00:32:49.140 --> 00:32:49.500 hot. 639 00:32:49.559 --> 00:32:51.660 You know, like he'd been in Battlefield. 640 00:32:51.720 --> 00:32:54.720 We all wanted to know about Anselon. 641 00:32:54.720 --> 00:33:00.359 And he said, oh, lovely fellow, had terrific hash, what he said. 642 00:33:19.859 --> 00:33:22.859 I want to talk about Samantha Bond again a little bit. 643 00:33:22.980 --> 00:33:24.960 We can talk about it for days. 644 00:33:25.019 --> 00:33:28.799 I watched a terrible crime show just because it had her and Joe 645 00:33:28.799 --> 00:33:29.339 Martin. 646 00:33:30.299 --> 00:33:33.900 Oh, I had someone at work this week. 647 00:33:33.960 --> 00:33:36.720 Tell me about a show that she's in and I can't remember. 648 00:33:36.839 --> 00:33:37.920 The Marlow Murder Club. 649 00:33:37.980 --> 00:33:40.019 No, it's not that, but it was something else. 650 00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:43.859 And she was trying to continue. to watch it, not downtown Abbey. 651 00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:46.140 She was trying to convince me to watch it. 652 00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:48.539 She said, have you ever heard of Samantha Bond? 653 00:33:48.599 --> 00:33:50.759 It's just like, have I heard? 654 00:33:50.819 --> 00:33:51.240 Have I? 655 00:33:51.299 --> 00:33:52.799 She was Money Penny. 656 00:33:52.859 --> 00:33:54.119 She calls Money Penny. 657 00:33:54.180 --> 00:33:56.039 She called Bond a cunning linguist. 658 00:33:56.099 --> 00:33:56.519 Come on. 659 00:33:56.819 --> 00:34:02.519 What about the deep fake sex that she has with Piers Brosnan in 660 00:34:02.519 --> 00:34:03.660 the VR helmet? 661 00:34:04.079 --> 00:34:08.039 But here, she's amazingly still. 662 00:34:08.099 --> 00:34:12.000 Isn't there just an incredible stillness to her? 663 00:34:12.059 --> 00:34:16.800 And like she's wearing that that cowl, which is stupid. 664 00:34:16.860 --> 00:34:18.059 Like, who wears? 665 00:34:18.659 --> 00:34:19.619 pinned into her hair. 666 00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:23.639 But she's just so windy. 667 00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:29.940 She looks fantastic, but there is just that absolute stillness to 668 00:34:29.940 --> 00:34:32.099 the way that she can dance herself. 669 00:34:32.159 --> 00:34:34.500 She never raises a sweat. 670 00:34:34.559 --> 00:34:39.960 She never really seems super agitated and just the line delivery 671 00:34:39.960 --> 00:34:43.260 just the way that she speaks is so magnificent. 672 00:34:43.320 --> 00:34:46.800 And, you know, there was just no question that whatever you did 673 00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:51.059 with her, whatever you got her to come back and do, she would 674 00:34:51.059 --> 00:34:55.019 absolutely be magnificent at, and you just needed to kind of lure 675 00:34:55.019 --> 00:34:56.340 her back in some way. 676 00:34:56.460 --> 00:35:00.659 She was unbelievably great in that 1st episode. 677 00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:01.920 So magnificent. 678 00:35:01.980 --> 00:35:05.639 I suspect that she was given a direction that, you know, when 679 00:35:05.639 --> 00:35:07.199 you're holding your little ring thing. 680 00:35:07.260 --> 00:35:10.679 It needs to be in exactly the same place because the special 681 00:35:10.679 --> 00:35:11.400 effects people. 682 00:35:11.460 --> 00:35:12.599 Oh, Jake. 683 00:35:13.739 --> 00:35:17.699 And so she's done the whole role of like, I'm just not going to 684 00:35:17.699 --> 00:35:19.380 move much because I don't want to get out of the screen. 685 00:35:22.739 --> 00:35:27.719 I think also, we were saying earlier with Simon Chadwick's 686 00:35:27.719 --> 00:35:29.760 performance and the idea of a kids TV performance. 687 00:35:29.820 --> 00:35:34.079 I think there are certain things that you can do in live action 688 00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:35.099 kids TV. 689 00:35:35.159 --> 00:35:37.320 It's okay to give that level of kids' performance. 690 00:35:37.380 --> 00:35:40.619 And for me, I call that sort of pose she does with her ring. 691 00:35:40.679 --> 00:35:43.739 I call that her Power Rangers moment because it's like when the 692 00:35:43.739 --> 00:35:44.940 Power Rangers are about to change. 693 00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:47.820 They have to go into the same pose every time because that matches 694 00:35:47.820 --> 00:35:48.900 the Japanese footage. 695 00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:50.460 Yeah. 696 00:35:50.519 --> 00:35:53.760 So, you know, she or Graham have figured out. 697 00:35:53.820 --> 00:35:56.219 It's like, right, so with the ring, you're going to sort of do a 698 00:35:56.219 --> 00:35:59.039 live long and prosper and put those 2 things around and just twist 699 00:35:59.039 --> 00:36:02.460 your hands every time and that's going to be the pose. 700 00:36:02.519 --> 00:36:03.719 Yeah. 701 00:36:03.780 --> 00:36:05.880 So that's something kids can do in the playground. 702 00:36:05.940 --> 00:36:06.239 Exactly. 703 00:36:06.300 --> 00:36:06.900 Exactly. 704 00:36:06.900 --> 00:36:07.139 Exactly. 705 00:36:07.199 --> 00:36:11.340 And we get one whacking great close-up of the ring and it's just 706 00:36:11.340 --> 00:36:14.400 one of those cheap sort of light refracting rings that you could 707 00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:15.659 get at pound land at the time. 708 00:36:16.559 --> 00:36:18.360 So cheap. 709 00:36:18.420 --> 00:36:19.559 What I love about this show. 710 00:36:19.619 --> 00:36:23.039 It's like it's so cheap and it's delightful. 711 00:36:24.239 --> 00:36:28.440 But I mean, she spends like that 1st episode just lying to us 712 00:36:28.440 --> 00:36:29.400 about who she is. 713 00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:33.059 Like, and even being on the back foot a little bit. 714 00:36:33.119 --> 00:36:35.760 You know, even when she's sort of caught in the, you know, the 715 00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:39.420 containment vortex or something in the attic and she has to try 716 00:36:39.420 --> 00:36:41.760 and get Luke to release her. 717 00:36:41.820 --> 00:36:43.380 All of that sort of star. 718 00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:48.539 Like, everything is arch and everything is this sort of villain 719 00:36:48.539 --> 00:36:52.320 performance, but there's a real sort of sincerity to it. 720 00:36:52.380 --> 00:36:55.860 She's really believable, I think. 721 00:36:55.920 --> 00:36:59.639 And I think the one thing that they do here. 722 00:36:59.699 --> 00:37:03.780 So Russell likes to give the villains families, right? 723 00:37:03.840 --> 00:37:09.840 So we had the main mother, and you know, we have the Slovene, a 724 00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:11.039 crime family. 725 00:37:11.099 --> 00:37:13.619 You know, it's Margaret Blaine and all of her brothers. 726 00:37:13.679 --> 00:37:16.079 Yeah, you know, and there's the family of blood. 727 00:37:16.139 --> 00:37:20.219 Like, he wants villains that love one another in a way. 728 00:37:20.280 --> 00:37:23.099 That's a little bit kind of more interesting. 729 00:37:23.219 --> 00:37:29.280 But she doesn't really show any of that in the in that 1st story. 730 00:37:29.340 --> 00:37:34.260 But here she's actually invited to do something a little bit more 731 00:37:34.260 --> 00:37:35.699 interesting with Luke. 732 00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:38.460 And like, of course she can do it. 733 00:37:38.519 --> 00:37:43.980 She's magnificent, but it was nice to kind of give her a little 734 00:37:43.980 --> 00:37:46.980 bit more depth for want of a better word. 735 00:37:47.699 --> 00:37:51.659 Well, I guess if you know it's Samantha Bond just coming back 736 00:37:51.659 --> 00:37:55.079 you're like, well, we can throw anything at her and she'll be 737 00:37:55.079 --> 00:37:55.440 fine. 738 00:37:55.500 --> 00:37:57.179 Like, we don't have to. 739 00:37:57.179 --> 00:38:01.260 Because I imagine they've, they've had so many great guest actors 740 00:38:01.260 --> 00:38:01.679 on this show. 741 00:38:01.739 --> 00:38:05.099 It's like they know they're going to get someone good. every 742 00:38:05.099 --> 00:38:05.400 episode. 743 00:38:05.519 --> 00:38:07.320 It's like, ah yeah, we can just throw anything at them. 744 00:38:07.380 --> 00:38:09.539 But Saran Jones next week. fine. 745 00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:12.000 We've got Bradley Walsh. 746 00:38:12.059 --> 00:38:12.480 It's fine. 747 00:38:12.539 --> 00:38:12.960 Let's do it. 748 00:38:13.800 --> 00:38:18.239 Doctor Who, like the parent show doesn't seem to do villains in 749 00:38:18.239 --> 00:38:20.340 quite the same way. 750 00:38:20.400 --> 00:38:24.059 It's a very classic Doctor Who villain performance. 751 00:38:24.119 --> 00:38:26.159 It's the sort of thing that Simon would approve of, I think. 752 00:38:26.219 --> 00:38:31.260 You know, you have a posh person doing a sort of slightly bigger 753 00:38:31.260 --> 00:38:35.880 but not too big performance and it's not the sort of villain that 754 00:38:35.880 --> 00:38:38.460 we tend to go for, the sort of RP villain. 755 00:38:38.519 --> 00:38:42.000 Um, who is from Doctor Who in the 70s. 756 00:38:42.119 --> 00:38:46.199 It's just sad that she doesn't have a proper old school Doctor Who 757 00:38:46.199 --> 00:38:49.559 death where instead of being pitched into a special effect, she 758 00:38:49.559 --> 00:38:51.059 just sort of crumples to the floor. 759 00:38:52.500 --> 00:38:55.139 Like carefully because it's concrete. 760 00:39:00.179 --> 00:39:04.199 I mean, I don't think this show kills its villains very often 761 00:39:04.199 --> 00:39:06.179 because it is a kid's show. 762 00:39:06.300 --> 00:39:08.460 Yeah Oh, she's pitched into a weird dimension. 763 00:39:08.519 --> 00:39:09.119 She could be back. 764 00:39:09.179 --> 00:39:10.019 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 765 00:39:10.079 --> 00:39:11.579 And I think that was absolutely the aim. 766 00:39:11.639 --> 00:39:12.659 Had the show kept going. 767 00:39:12.719 --> 00:39:14.699 You know, we could have had her back, I think. 768 00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:17.760 Well, big finish have brought her back. 769 00:39:17.880 --> 00:39:19.739 No. in their box set. 770 00:39:19.800 --> 00:39:21.659 Rani takes on the world. 771 00:39:21.719 --> 00:39:23.519 Oh, of course they have. 772 00:39:23.579 --> 00:39:25.800 And she's Mrs. Wormwood. 773 00:39:25.860 --> 00:39:26.460 Is she fabulous? 774 00:39:26.519 --> 00:39:30.000 I haven't heard it, but the story is called Revenge of the Bane. 775 00:39:30.059 --> 00:39:31.500 Oh wonderful. 776 00:39:31.559 --> 00:39:35.400 I thought it was called the Revenge of Wormwood. might be right. 777 00:39:35.460 --> 00:39:36.539 You might be right. 778 00:39:37.320 --> 00:39:40.380 It's such an uncomfortable sounding name. 779 00:39:42.360 --> 00:39:45.059 Have you got your wormwood scene too? 780 00:39:46.260 --> 00:39:48.960 She actually says, doesn't she? 781 00:39:49.019 --> 00:39:52.380 I think she says where it comes from, that it's from the book of 782 00:39:52.380 --> 00:39:52.860 Revelation. 783 00:39:52.920 --> 00:39:56.280 Like wormwood is like what absinthe is made of. 784 00:39:56.340 --> 00:40:01.380 But it's a star in the book of Revelation that falls to the earth 785 00:40:01.380 --> 00:40:03.900 and poisons a 3rd of the water. 786 00:40:03.960 --> 00:40:08.579 And so that's why she's called that, but wormwood is famously a 787 00:40:08.579 --> 00:40:10.019 bitter plant. 788 00:40:10.139 --> 00:40:13.500 And so like, that's why that's there. 789 00:40:13.500 --> 00:40:15.659 And it's so much better than giving her a space name. 790 00:40:15.719 --> 00:40:16.860 Oh, yeah. 791 00:40:16.860 --> 00:40:18.239 Like that would have been dreadful. 792 00:40:18.300 --> 00:40:22.079 We have carg and his glorious space name and that's probably 793 00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:25.500 enough space names for one story. surname, isn't it? 794 00:40:25.739 --> 00:40:27.780 glorious space now. 795 00:40:55.619 --> 00:40:57.719 Well, that's all the time we had for this week. 796 00:40:57.780 --> 00:41:01.320 We'll be back next week to see how that terrifying entity on the 797 00:41:01.320 --> 00:41:05.340 planet Midnight gets on without any middle class daily mail 798 00:41:05.340 --> 00:41:07.559 readers to frighten in the well. 799 00:41:07.980 --> 00:41:11.519 In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts 800 00:41:11.519 --> 00:41:15.119 and you can keep up with us on our website, 500yearDiary.com, where 801 00:41:15.119 --> 00:41:18.119 you'll find our social media links, as well as links to all of our 802 00:41:18.119 --> 00:41:21.780 other podcasts, including our other Doctor Who podcasts, Flight 803 00:41:21.780 --> 00:41:24.960 Through Entirety, and the 2nd greys and bountiful Human Empire. 804 00:41:25.440 --> 00:41:29.579 Until next time, remember that there are plenty of delicacies 805 00:41:29.579 --> 00:41:31.619 sweeter than the tongue of your enemy. 806 00:41:31.679 --> 00:41:34.139 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 807 00:41:34.199 --> 00:41:35.340 Bye. 808 00:41:35.460 --> 00:41:36.119 Good night. 809 00:41:36.239 --> 00:41:37.079 Ta ta. 810 00:41:49.139 --> 00:41:53.039 That was 500 year diary, starring Nathan Bottomley, Brendan Jones 811 00:41:53.039 --> 00:41:55.260 Adam Richard, and James Selwood. 812 00:41:55.320 --> 00:41:57.840 The theme was composed by Cameron Lamb. 813 00:41:57.900 --> 00:42:02.219 This episode, Gloria Space Name, was recorded on the 25th of May 814 00:42:02.219 --> 00:42:05.519 2025 and released on the 29th of June. 815 00:42:06.599 --> 00:42:11.280 When Samantha Bond returned to Bannerman wrote in a box set in 816 00:42:11.280 --> 00:42:15.960 December 2023, big finish released a lovely 6 minute interview 817 00:42:15.960 --> 00:42:18.360 with her that you really should watch. 818 00:42:18.420 --> 00:42:21.360 Follow the link in this week's show notes. 819 00:42:33.659 --> 00:42:36.960 I was gonna say, if you think she's bitter, maybe you should stop 820 00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:37.619 licking her. 821 00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:38.880 Oh my god. 822 00:42:38.940 --> 00:42:43.500 Oh my, oh my god, switch cartridges are the 3rd scheme of the 823 00:42:43.500 --> 00:42:43.920 bane. 824 00:42:47.760 --> 00:42:49.559 What's that about? 825 00:42:49.920 --> 00:42:54.119 Well, because switch cartridges are bitter when you lick them so 826 00:42:54.119 --> 00:42:56.880 that if children put them in their mouths, they spit them out. 827 00:42:56.940 --> 00:42:59.280 Oh, it's it's the reason. 828 00:42:59.340 --> 00:43:02.340 Yeah, it's like that nail polish you can put on, yeah. 829 00:43:02.400 --> 00:43:04.260 To stop your biting your nail. 830 00:43:04.320 --> 00:43:05.219 I have never done it. 831 00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:08.880 And I don't know if the new ones, because the new switch things 832 00:43:08.880 --> 00:43:10.199 they don't even have the game on them. 833 00:43:10.980 --> 00:43:12.780 Some of them don't. 834 00:43:12.900 --> 00:43:16.980 Because the game is too big to fit on the country. it will be 835 00:43:16.980 --> 00:43:17.880 clearly on the packaging. 836 00:43:17.940 --> 00:43:18.719 Okay. 837 00:43:18.719 --> 00:43:19.860 That's not the case. 838 00:43:20.099 --> 00:43:23.340 On the topic of Boomtown that you mentioned a couple of minutes 839 00:43:23.340 --> 00:43:23.820 ago. 840 00:43:24.420 --> 00:43:28.199 So, yeah, I know we covered Boomtown last week, but it's 841 00:43:28.199 --> 00:43:31.800 interesting that when Mrs. Wormwood comes up to the attic. 842 00:43:31.920 --> 00:43:38.159 The scene really heavily mirrors the scene with Margaret coming 843 00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:41.880 into the Tartars in Boomtown, right down to, Oh, yeah, well, we'll 844 00:43:41.880 --> 00:43:42.780 turn you over to the bane. 845 00:43:42.840 --> 00:43:44.039 Yeah, well, they'll execute me. 846 00:43:44.760 --> 00:43:46.980 They'll eat me. 847 00:43:47.039 --> 00:43:51.840 And then a discussion comes up around 2nd chances and what have 848 00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:52.079 you. 849 00:43:52.139 --> 00:43:57.420 And, you know, instead of like Captain Jack's laser handcuffs 850 00:43:57.420 --> 00:44:00.719 we've got the containment vortex, you know. 851 00:44:00.780 --> 00:44:06.119 I mean, the main difference is that Margaret does get a shot at 852 00:44:06.119 --> 00:44:09.480 redemption and there is there is a moment where at the end where 853 00:44:09.480 --> 00:44:13.500 you genuinely believe that, oh, you know, she she is actually 854 00:44:13.500 --> 00:44:17.219 grateful for the idea of starting over, whereas Mrs. Wormwood is 855 00:44:17.219 --> 00:44:18.599 like, no, evil all along. 856 00:44:20.159 --> 00:44:22.619 That's actually really wonderful. 857 00:44:22.679 --> 00:44:24.119 When Luke rejects her. 858 00:44:24.179 --> 00:44:27.659 She goes, oh, well, I'll just go back to destroying things. 859 00:44:27.719 --> 00:44:28.380 That's fun. 860 00:44:29.340 --> 00:44:32.880 Like, almost literally, she says that. 861 00:44:32.940 --> 00:44:34.500 And I think that's fabulous. 862 00:44:34.559 --> 00:44:36.300 It's just kind of like, okay, no regrets. 863 00:44:36.360 --> 00:44:39.119 I'm just going to be a fabulous villain and you do what you want. 864 00:44:39.179 --> 00:44:42.119 And I think that that is pretty great. 865 00:44:42.179 --> 00:44:45.420 There's that in that scene, you know, Margaret comes into the 866 00:44:45.420 --> 00:44:49.739 Tartar and goes, oh, I feel a little bit less bad about how you 867 00:44:49.739 --> 00:44:52.800 beat me given that you have this technology. 868 00:44:52.860 --> 00:44:57.119 And I think that Mrs. Wormwood has a similar experience, doesn't 869 00:44:57.119 --> 00:45:00.360 she, when she sees the computer and all of that sort of thing, that 870 00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:06.239 it's not quite as homegrown, you know, as she thought it was. 871 00:45:06.300 --> 00:45:07.199 Yeah. 872 00:45:07.739 --> 00:45:13.199 One of my favourite moments in this is when Sarah Jane pulls out a 873 00:45:13.199 --> 00:45:16.980 spare sonic lipstick and it's like, what woman only has one 874 00:45:16.980 --> 00:45:17.699 lipstick? 875 00:45:20.039 --> 00:45:24.599 I think the line is, you think I'm the sort of girl that only 876 00:45:24.599 --> 00:45:25.920 carries one. 877 00:45:26.460 --> 00:45:28.860 Awesome. glorious. 878 00:45:29.820 --> 00:45:32.159 I love stupid logic. 879 00:45:35.460 --> 00:45:40.199 I'm just imagining if, like, in one of the days that Eric Saywood 880 00:45:40.199 --> 00:45:43.380 was pissed off with JNG, like he just types in. 881 00:45:43.500 --> 00:45:46.860 The doctor whips out a sonic screwdriver and says to Tegan, oh yes 882 00:45:46.860 --> 00:45:47.460 I built another one. 883 00:45:47.519 --> 00:45:51.179 Don't know why I didn't think of this 3 stories ago, really. 884 00:45:54.599 --> 00:45:56.099 What do you think? 885 00:45:56.159 --> 00:45:57.000 Do we have... 886 00:45:57.179 --> 00:45:59.099 Oh, we've got heaps set out? 887 00:45:59.159 --> 00:46:02.280 I think we have a I think we have a I think we've got hate. 888 00:46:02.400 --> 00:46:06.900 Oh, I just want to say one thing about the editing and pacing, and 889 00:46:06.900 --> 00:46:09.900 this could go back where there was deleted dialogue stuff. 890 00:46:09.960 --> 00:46:13.019 I did get the feeling watching this, that there was a lot of 891 00:46:13.019 --> 00:46:14.039 deleted dialogue. 892 00:46:14.099 --> 00:46:16.980 Just because there are some really odd cuts. 893 00:46:17.039 --> 00:46:18.539 Like as we go into the titles. 894 00:46:18.599 --> 00:46:22.500 Like instead of getting out a maniacal laugh, Mrs. Wormwood gets 895 00:46:22.500 --> 00:46:24.599 out and then, book, titles. 896 00:46:24.659 --> 00:46:25.440 And it's like... 897 00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:27.960 I kind of loved that. 898 00:46:28.500 --> 00:46:30.780 We'll take the laugh as red. 899 00:46:30.840 --> 00:46:31.559 Yeah, yeah. 900 00:46:31.800 --> 00:46:34.500 It happens to about 3 or 4 times. 901 00:46:34.559 --> 00:46:37.199 Like the end of part one, she gets cut off. 902 00:46:37.260 --> 00:46:41.760 But like looking at the episodes, they're just above 28 minutes 903 00:46:41.760 --> 00:46:43.920 which I think must be the maximum for the slot. 904 00:46:43.980 --> 00:46:48.119 So I'm just imagining Graham Harper in the edit suite going, okay 905 00:46:48.119 --> 00:46:50.219 no, chop that tail that. 906 00:46:50.219 --> 00:46:53.460 Like, we come in halfway through the discussion about Clyde's dad 907 00:46:53.460 --> 00:46:56.880 and we get the gist, but the buildup to that is actually 908 00:46:56.880 --> 00:46:59.820 instigated by Luke asking Clyde. 909 00:46:59.880 --> 00:47:03.719 You know, you've had your dad suddenly come back into your life. 910 00:47:03.780 --> 00:47:05.519 How should I be feeling about this? 911 00:47:05.579 --> 00:47:06.480 Oh, right. 912 00:47:06.480 --> 00:47:10.320 You know, that being said, it doesn't affect my enjoyment. 913 00:47:10.380 --> 00:47:15.119 And I don't think it would bother a kid, but just as I do work 914 00:47:15.119 --> 00:47:18.780 with footage and cutting stuff down and do occasionally have to go 915 00:47:18.780 --> 00:47:22.019 right, we need to take out 12nd from every shot of this sequence 916 00:47:22.019 --> 00:47:23.699 to get it to time. 917 00:47:24.599 --> 00:47:27.599 I think perhaps I'm just more sensitive. 918 00:47:27.659 --> 00:47:28.619 So it's not a criticism. 919 00:47:28.679 --> 00:47:29.699 It's just something I observed. 920 00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:31.139 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 921 00:47:31.199 --> 00:47:36.300 It's, I mean, I feel like it makes it really lean and the 922 00:47:36.300 --> 00:47:41.099 judicious choices are like, we we kind of get why these things are 923 00:47:41.099 --> 00:47:41.460 happening. 924 00:47:41.519 --> 00:47:46.260 Like there's no there's no mistaking the the ongoing storyline. 925 00:47:46.320 --> 00:47:49.079 They could have cut half a McGuffin, and I wouldn't have cared. 926 00:47:49.139 --> 00:47:49.500 Yeah. 927 00:47:50.460 --> 00:47:53.639 I reckon that's, I think, great. 928 00:47:53.699 --> 00:47:54.000 Yeah. 929 00:47:54.059 --> 00:47:55.679 Yeah, that's that's fun. 930 00:47:55.739 --> 00:47:56.219 That's fun.