Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to 500 Year Diary.
The only Doctor Who podcast that's completely gone off kombucha
for some reason.
I'm Nathan.
I'm Adam.
I'm Todd, and I'm a fizzy, wizzy, tropey, mimi distillation of
everything RTD's ever done for one hour for this one.
Well, it's New Year's Day 2007.
Just over 25 years ago.
We watched the 1st episode of the 1st ever Doctor Who spinoff, a
spinoff that never got a 2nd episode.
But tonight, Sarah, Jane, and K9 are back in the 1st episode of
the spinoff that Liz Slaton always deserved.
Let's hear how she gets on in the Sarah Jane Adventures, Invasion
of the Bane.
Now, just over two months ago, we had the first episode of
Torchwood, and I have to say that this is terrifyingly similar to
that.
Terrifyingly similar In what way?
So a lot of the story beats are the same.
I mean, you start, you know, you get this outsider who is
intrigued by something mysterious, who gets a taste of it very
early on from a distance and then kind of reacts badly to it and
flees.
And that's the same plot as Rose.
And Rose does that as well.
And you're saying Russell's just got a template.
I think he does have a template. because then Maria becomes more
involved with Sarah Jane, but at around about halfway through
she's told by Sarah Jane to go home and forget everything that
she's seen, just like the doctor tells Rose to go home and
forget.
And of course, because it's tortured Jack Spikes, Gwen's drink.
Yeah, so that. she'll forget. not essentially made to forget
that's right There's not much consent in short is there?
Not really, no.
And so what ends up happening is that after being rejected by the
sort of crotchety main character or the grumpy and mysterious main
character, the new the new girl.
Are we talking about Liz?
All 3 of them.
The new goal finally sort of shows that she is helpful in some way
except for Gwen, who just watches India Obama shoot herself in the
head.
And then, you know, finally we sort of end up deciding to join
forces.
And what we said last week was that this is sort of different from
that sort of classical, you know, mono myth, you know, the Joseph
Campbell mono myth where the person actually is chosen in some way
from the beginning and then rejects that and is finally persuaded
to kind of step up.
In fact, it's a person trying to get in and being constantly
rebuffed and then finally accepted at the end.
Do you think the church on Ruby Road is finally this story having
the Joseph Campbell chosen one element to it.
Maybe that's it.
Because it's the same story.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, I mean, is it the same as an unearthly child?
I think they're similar to beats because again, you have a female
character investigating.
She's got her support there, which happens to be Ian.
And in all these other ones, there's some sort of support for the
main character, and this one, of course, it's Maria's parents.
Well, just the dad read.
Well, yes.
And and and I guess Kelsey is her confident.
And then at some point you either meet the Tartar or the Torchwood
hub, or in this case, Mr. Smith in the attic.
Yeah, yeah. you know, 3 quarters of the way through or whatever
two-thirds of the way it happens to be.
So, yes, again, I think there is real similarities between all of
these things.
Yeah.
It does start to feel like it's a boilerplate now.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, it works, doesn't it?
And have we gone for like decades without kind of making the
link?
You know what?
It works.
I feel like it works better in the instances where the character
that you meet is one you remember from many episodes as opposed to
a handful of the 1st series.
Yeah, yeah.
I think, like, I forgot Maria was in it.
I'm like, oh, that's right.
There was a different girl.
Yeah, yeah.
And Kelsey, I'm like, oh, there was another different girl.
But I think you go along in that journey with Maria.
I think she's actually, I think she's actually very good, you know
and the character itself I enjoy and her family and, you know, that
whole setup with the family where you think that they're all
moving in together for a moment and then it just sort of begins to
turn slightly and you just kind of think, oh, maybe there's
something not right here.
You're already alerted to the fact because she's checking out the
bum of the moving guy.
They all move, though, don't they?
It's not the power of the Daleks by Ian Levine or any of the other
ones.
And that family, I think, kind of works, but what ends up
happening is that we get the chance to sort of try it again.
Yeah.
And I should have had I been a little bit more devoted.
I would have watched.
I think it's the beginning of series three.
It's the 2nd story of series 3 where Rani moves in.
Series two.
Is it really?
Maria's only in season one.
Plus the 1st 2 episodes of...
Wow.
Because it's written out.
Yeah.
I didn't realise it was...
GCSEs in real life.
Like she was so not Coke.
Yeah.
I just want to talk about, like, the fact that, you know, you are
with Maria all the way, and I just feel like the Kelsey character
didn't quite work.
She certainly comes out of nowhere.
She seems to be a little bit older, like, you know, because she's
quite sexual compared to Maria, and I think, um, like, because
she's, she's after the muffin, like, like, a greased werewolf in a
cake shop.
Look like I said, do you like a muffin toe or do you like the
muffin bottom?
what I'll say there.
But that is a glorious joke, eh?
That's fact.
Fantastic.
I'll take the cherry as well.
Thanks, Tom.
Help me. help me now.
She's even interested in Maria's dad later on, she even finds him
hot.
And at no point, Maria seems very uncomfortable with that.
I can see what they're trying to do, but it doesn't quite work and
I think it's a combination of the character not quite working with
the others as well as the performance, the actress, I think, being
slightly like on a different level with everybody else.
Like, that's that's how I felt when I was watching it.
She is 15.
And so is Maria.
And you have Tommy Knight as well, who's 13.
And so you have 3 children in the main cast, and that's incredibly
difficult to manage because there's all sorts of rules governing
how long children can work for.
It's really clear why when they replace Maria and Kelsey, they
replace them with adults.
So Daniel Anthony, who is in the next episode, is 19 and obviously
Angeli Mahindra is an adult as well.
So they're replaced by adults playing it young.
I think they both, and particularly Maria, just seems like
genuinely like a proper 15 year old.
What I think Kelsey does.
And what I think she does well is she punctures all of the crap.
So there is a big amount of standing around talking in the attic
after a long scene of standing around talking in Miss Wormwood's
office.
And in each case she's there to puncture it and to kind of make it
funny.
I think she does a pretty good job of that.
It was better when Donna was that character.
Well, yes.
Just go, oh, this is trying to do Catherine Tate before Catherine
Tate.
But that might be true.
But coming back to this.
I did find her much funnier and certainly when she sang, oh, like
I don't scream and next thing you know, on 3 occasions, she...
Her screaming is great.
She's so good.
She was in stars in their eyes for kids.
Oh, at the age of 10, like 5 years before this.
So she had been seen on telly before.
And she is one hell of a superb screamer.
She's really great.
She's Bonnie Langford level, I reckon.
I was surprised.
It was very funny.
Yeah, and maybe that's a throwback to Liz's time on the show as
well. tended to hold it back.
I thought Todd was going to talk about the Kelsey character as
being the only non-middle class one, and I was wanting to ask what
you all thought, seeing this again after what appears to be so
long, where is our youth?
We weren't even bloody young.
I'm not.
Stop that. cut that out.
She's the working class aggressive one that every middle class
person because this is really BBC for kids stuff, but, I mean, it
is.
But he always puts these characters in that are playground
aggressors that are actually the ones that probably baulked the
fans in the playground in ways that are not comfortable and
there's the T word.
She's a triggering character.
But then he humanises them, or at least he brings us all to a
level where we can have sympathy for difference, and that's
Russell's great skill, and he just does it all the time.
He's even doing it, allowing Liz to stand on a glacier, like the
last act of the Rhine Gold, with a bloody sceptre and the horny
hat, thinking, I hate kids.
And you still get it all to kind of mesh.
You don't.
You can still see she hates the kids.
But I just think it's interesting.
Kelsey's not even there at the end when they're with Luke and
Maria and Sarah in the garden.
Like, so to me, even watching this back, I just felt that she was
this other character, comic relief character, like who wasn't
quite, even with her reactions to what was going on in the attic
she wasn't quite part of that core group.
And I think they get it really quite right with Clyde next
episode.
He's got a little bit more of the working class, but not too much
in there.
So he's a bit more sort of closer to them.
And I think having a male character to bond with Luke really works
whereas here Maria doesn't, I think, really need Kelsey.
That's right.
I feel like there's also, because given they've given Kelsey all
of this stuff to do with the muffin.
Yeah. that there's an instant level of sexual tension between her
and Luke that is, it's like, oh, well, we would have to go there
now because she's obviously voracious in her appetite.
And they're like, oh, he doesn't even have a belly button.
Let's not even invite this conversation and bring in a male friend
for him.
Like, I feel like there was at some point someone's gone.
Yeah, we've probably gone a bit far with her being into guys.
I think I think that the reason that they give is that they
thought that the gender balance was wrong.
And I do think that Tommy needed a mentor, like Tommy's character
Luke needs a mentor.
I think more than Maria needs a friend who isn't that interested
in her.
Well, Maria's mental is Liz.
Yes, Henry Jane.
Yeah, you know, not her mother.
And I think the comedy character that we have then is Chrissy.
And I seem to remember that when it was announced that Billy Piper
was leaving the parent program.
Obviously, the thing that I was devastated about was Camil Kajuri
leaving.
And, you know, Billy's great, but Camille.
And here, when I heard that Maria was leaving, I was really, really
sorry that we would lose Chrissy because I think she's absolutely
brilliant.
She's awful and amazing all that.
I will agree with you.
Like, I didn't really actually like her very much in this, but I
know having watched the series that I loved all her comic relief
moments throughout and certainly in her last episode with Santara
and she's fantastic.
But also Alan's the other one where he just grows and grows as a
character and I really feel like in another world, if this had
been done 10 years earlier, they would have tried to make him a
love interest for Sarah Jane.
I just kind of think that's the feeling I get.
So I think I was quite devastated that we were going to be losing
him.
He's pretty as well I mean, Kelsey.
Kelsey is right.
She's correct.
I don't know about the muffin.
The muffin looks like, you know, from, from, from, period, isn't
it?
So 2016, with those degrade boy bands, I'm making Bad Boys Inc
here.
And if you know who they are, you really know your boy bands, but
with awful, like, sort of longish hair and then, you know, when we
had those little flares in the in the jeans and stuff.
I think I talked about this in the torch, whatever.
I thought Owen was wearing it. very much a similar sort of thing.
But, you know, what the hey, he's there for a purpose and
ultimately, you know, Mrs. Wormwood says, bye.
I actually think he's really terrific and there's that one moment
where he's in the car dropping Kelsey off in Bannerman Road.
And she says, oh, you know, I don't have to get home till 6.
Why don't we go and have a burger?
And he just very quietly says, get out.
It's so good.
It's a great show survive on their supporting cast.
And so having like the 2nd villain or, you know, the henchman.
He's good and then Leslie, the secretary, like she's going to off
Sarah Jane in the left.
You know, she's great.
But of course, it all comes back to the main villain.
Oh, who Samantha Bond, as Mrs. Wormwood, is just fantastic.
I mean, she is like a classic Doctor Who villain, like Harrison
Chase or.
I don't know who else.
I genuinely think the reason that she can't understand a word
Kelsey is saying, you know, she doesn't know. middle class.
She's in the Downtonapping.
No, because she's from a TV show in the 1970s, I think.
What is this?
Jeremy Kyle.
Who is that?
You know, the only thing I found frustrating is that because it's
children's television, because it's done on a tight budget, I know
because I'm working in children's television at the moment and
how's that?
Apparently when you have small people, you need less money.
It's not true.
I have smaller feet and take longer to get everywhere.
It's true But the moment when Samantha Bond does her big Mrs
Wormwood speech, the camera has a massive wobble and it's like, oh
we can't shoot it again.
Do you mean the food speech?
Yeah, they're like closing in on her?
Like the camera's coming in tight and then it's like, oh, run over
a cat.
Keep going.
And it's just, I, I, this is something I'm going to say. did not
enjoy the direction of this episode at all.
Lots of Dutch angles, lots of...
So this is directed by Colin Teague, who did the sound of drums
and last of the time.
And I think there's moments in that that I have got problems
with.
But he did Pompeii, which I really like.
So, you know, and he did full torchwood.
So he's, you know, not a statue, but I can see where you're coming
from that time.
That bubble shock ad.
Like that just drove me nuts.
Do you know, I actually thought, and maybe I'm just stupid.
But one of the things that TV shows are very bad at doing is inset
TV shows or like ads on telly.
Like they always look crappy.
Like they never look like telly. and you kind of go, you guys are
making telly.
How do you not make the telly on telly look convincing?
I actually thought that the bubble shock ad was surprisingly kind
of, you know, it's fast moving.
It has skateboarders.
It has people who aren't speaking.
There seem to be a lot of people in it.
And I thought that I did a reasonable job.
I was frustrated with the graphic design.
Yes, it is upsettingly bad.
Really?
Like, because I read a lot of comic books and that's like a basic
comic book font that they've used for the typeface and it's just
like, oh, it just looks like someone has tripped over something
and fallen into a cupboard and there's a big sound effect going
on.
Bubble shop.
I don't think they wanted to terrify nice BBC viewers with actual
tagging.
It was very homogenised tagging.
But, you know, there is some attempt to have some kind of sort of
unity to all of the stuff.
Like, I think the bus, like, they paid the bus. hilarious.
The bus is really great.
Like, you do talk about the fact that there is a budget to this
but they've got the bus.
They have that big explosion at the end, the bus go through the
location is pretty great.
I so missed Robert Helpman in this one, didn't you?
You've got, you know, whatever they, they needed to make Mr. Smith
and his fanfare.
Oh yeah, but that's Amelia rated through the...
Yeah, yeah.
Like, that's a big spend you do at the start.
Yeah, I know, I know, but what I'm saying.
It looks it looks amazing.
There are there is a lot of stuff that looks great.
But some of that CGI with the...
Is it the bang?
The bang.
It does look fantastic.
Some of that was...
There's one outside...
It's the one outside Sarah Jane's place or someone there looks
really broken.
Oh, no.
That's the bit that I like.
The bit where the muffin turns into the CG squid and then starts
chasing, like is in the on the roof, like of her hallway and then
climbs up the stairs and stuff.
And the way that it's smashing on the door with its tentacles and
things.
I just think that is so fantastic.
I would have loved that as a kid and I don't think it needs to be
better.
Like even watching it now.
SD.
I think it's wonderful.
What it looks like, what it looks like is the picture of the
nestings on the cover of the Terror of the Autons novelisation.
Yeah, so it's for kids.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think it's wonderful.
And I love how kind of it has a sort of blabby fleshy sort of feel
to it.
It feels like there's gravity.
It feels rubbery.
Yeah, yeah.
It feels probably rubbery.
I think it's sold wonderfully.
I mean, the thing in the roof, like there's nothing cheaper than
just doing a special effect on the roof because you key out a
square, you know, no one's standing in front of it.
And so we had that with the Jagrafess, you know, in series one.
We had it with the scanner in the TARDIS in the TV movie.
It something that it's very cheap to do.
And so you know, the Bane mother is a bit crappy, I think.
There's, you know, there's a weird moment where I feel like Colin
Teague has told Samantha Bond, oh, you're going to be using magic
powers to lift this big pole and throw it and she does all these
arm movements.
But then there's a CGI tentacle lifting it.
So I'm like, are you conducting?
That's what I thought it was.
I thought, mum, mum, do this.
Throw the thing.
It honestly looked like she thought she had powers and she was
doing this.
I think she just picked up a lot of camp working with Dalton all
day.
I just thought it was, yeah, I just thought it was part of her
camp performance.
She's so camping. going up against Liz Slater, you know, a star of
the 1970s.
That very 1st scene with them in the office is electrifying.
It's worth an hour of that.
Yeah, yeah In my head, it went for an hour. because I just watched
it over and over. again.
No, it's perfect.
And again, that's the thing about this terribly thin script and I
was listening to you all thinking, what's the difference really
between this and something we watched as kids called Doctor Who
that we loved?
This is more childlike.
I'd say childish than any of the Doctor Who's we had, even back
then.
This is so I have long held this theory that when there is a kid's
version of the show, the adult version can be more adult, which
happened in the 70s when Blake 7 turned up, Tom Baker got a robot
dog and it became a really kidsy half hour show because there was
an hour of more adult, albeit quite bonkers, science fiction going
on every week at the BBC.
And this is the same when this turns up, the main show becomes
grittier, it has more adult storylines.
Plus, we also with Sarah Jane.
We got the cliffhangers back everywhere.
Yeah, so good.
This is why this is the best spinoff, in my opinion. by far.
Having those cliffhangers, you do get that whole Doctor Who feel.
And I do think you get a lot of classic kind of Doctor Who
villains to go up against the central character.
Get the brigadier.
And you bring in the history of the show gradually.
And I think every season they just get stronger and stronger in
terms of performances and where they're prepared to go with the
characters as those teen characters get a bit older.
And also to the Sarah Jane character lets her guard down and grows
herself.
And I think if you watch the whole thing through, it's a shame
that we didn't get the whole of that last season to really see
where they, but they were already going there anyway.
You know, I think torchwoods all up and down and over the place
and I think there's some great episodes and there's some stuff
that's not great.
Class is like whatever that was.
But for me, this is the best spinoff.
We said last week that Torchwood has a sort of pretty grim sort of
mission statement, which is where Susie, just before shooting
herself in the head, complains that all of the aliens that we get
here on Earth are terrible and we get the terrible aliens and
maybe out there in the parent show, they're a wonders and marvels
beyond compare and things can be exciting and uplifting and
positive, but everything is just terrible here.
And maybe giving that brief to Chris Chibnell is probably the
wrong call as well.
But even dark suddenly.
But even in Russell's hands that's a bit unpleasant.
Here, I think we've absolutely just said, no, this is going to be
fun.
And so you have Samantha Bond and superb.
Like, the classic series doesn't have as many female villains as
we think.
Not really many at all.
And I think she is absolutely up there.
She's Vivian Faye.
You know, she's yeah, she's Miss Winters.
She is.
That speech, you know the speech about food that Russell's fear of
food speech, which will turn up in the next episode of Doctor Who
Smith and Jones, and Anne Reid will get to talk about all those
rich sauces and wines and things.
And the master will do it, you know, after that a couple of years
later when he's eating the turkey, you know, like Russell's just
as a kind of gay man whose body conscious, all of his weird fat
stuff, which we imagine he's not going to be doing now that he's
back.
But all of that, just horror of food.
And just the way she delivers it with that crisp English accent
with every consonant, just like cut glass.
She's incredible, just incredible.
Oh my god.
It's weird you bring up the food thing because that scene made me
think of how dated the show is not because of the muffin's hair
but when when Sarah Jane goes, oh, and you just got right through
the EU.
And I'm like, oh, yeah, that wouldn't be a problem anymore.
Yeah.
Even at the beginning, when Chrissy asked for a check.
Like, I'm just going, what's a check?
Also in a kid's show.
Like, again, like, constantly having discussions at work, like
would kids know what this is?
Because their cultural knowledge is 5 years ago.
But I think that's okay because I think back in Classic Doctor Who
when we were kids, we were exposed to things and concepts and
ideas that we weren't necessarily, um, weren't necessarily in our
world.
Like, you know, if you look at the John Pertry stuff with like the
female prime minister and the ecological stuff, like, that was all
like when we were watching it, well, when I was watching it anyway
like in the 80s.
It's like that made sense, but you know, 5 years earlier or 6
years, 7 years earlier, it was not necessarily in the mind of
everybody.
So having those things in there, I think is good to educate
without educating, like, you know, what does that mean?
Like somebody might start thinking, what is that, you know, and
look it up and learn something.
Yeah, I think quite frequently, I'll remember that there's a word
that I heard for the 1st time in a Doctor Who story. there must be
dozens and dozens of those, I think.
Serendipity.
Very true.
I'm liking the structure and what we're talking about and the
things that we zone in on.
And I think, and it's that scene between the two.
Obviously, we're here for Liz and, I mean, I know Todd and I just
hearts burst when we heard this was coming out, and I wasn't
disappointed at all.
Because she's such an ice queen.
And that's all I ever wanted from her.
And it was that early, if you know those 1st 3 stories with
Pertley and the Brigadier when she really lets them know.
It was a bit of that back.
But we also grew up with Maggie Smith before she was the goddess
of TV in films like Pride of Miss Jean Brody.
Thank you, Bill Collins. had to read that at school.
Muriel Spark is, you know, she was a Bletchley code broker.
Really?
Yeah, hated women.
There's a whole generation.
Iris Murdoch?
No, seriously.
She actually really does.
Memento Mori is my pick of the week if anyone wants to read Mural
Spuck.
But anyway, my point is, we grew up with these Eve Arden
characters, if you remember, she's the headmistress in Greece and
she was, but all these women that are actually doing films in the
50s. already old by the 60s.
But it wasn't for Russell, because Doctor Who's now being made by
gay men of a certain age.
So everything here is a little trope, ting, of something that we
loved and grew up with.
And I think this is made for children, but it is also made for
gays of a certain age.
And how often those 2 Mr. Disney, Mr. Eisner, how often those 2
things go together?
It's familiar to us.
And it's wanted to ask you.
I wonder how kids feel about it.
But then Disney co-opted that anyway and turned all of those 40s
archetypes into just, you know, things he does.
Well, but divine, yeah.
That's that shtick.
But it's quite sticky and it feels like a, it feels like a 60s.
I think that Russell has always identified.
He was always the companion.
Yes, don't you think?
I mean, I was always the companion.
Totally.
I never would.
He always talked to her.
I want to be a companion.
Yeah, he was always the one. new stuff and it's like, well, I
didn't know anything.
Rosser was always the 1st one to cry out, what are all these knobs
for?
I've never seen so many.
I mean, there's a reason she's called Rose.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, he names her after him in the 1st Doctor Who annual of
2005.
He gives Rose his birthday.
Yeah.
So, his safe word, Rose.
So is Maria named after Gareth Roberts?
Who's the other writer at this episode?
I was wondering when we were going to get to.
What's his contribution here?
Like, did he have the 1st pass of it?
Do you know the history?
I don't I don't.
I think that you can detect, like, I don't want to talk about
Gareth Roberts very much because he's obviously awful.
But there is a conservatism that he has, I think, and some of its
aesthetic, you know, he's not a terrible choice to write something
that he's kind of retro in its approach because this isn't just
70s Doctor Who.
It's also chocky and, you know, those things that we watch as a
kid, children of the stars. of the stones.
I have to go home in the dark.
So it's all of those things, isn't it?
With the cliffhangers, you know, with bigger budgets and they
needed to have the half hour thing.
And so he's the right person to do that.
But I do think that some of the, that the fact that it's a drink
that kids like it's associated with the way kids talk, you've got
Kelsey there kind of exemplifying that and being described by Mrs
Wormwood as full of sort of noise and ignorance and stuff.
You know, there's there's a kind of conservatism and a kind of
suspicion of young people's culture which seems surprising coming
from Russell.
You know, all of the good people drink tea and the big betrayal at
the end is when Maria discovers that her father's been secretly
drinking bubble shock.
You know?
So, so there's that.
I think that maybe that's Roberts's conservatism sort of
appearing.
Because he kind of sidelined a bit more in favour of Phil Ford, who
did a lot more riding on the show.
Well, I think Phil came to the four, so to speak, and just got the
show immediately.
Yeah, and really sort of then took over as the person directing
where things were going into young adulthood for a lot of these
characters.
Yeah.
So is Russell responsible for the line?
She worships Holly Oaks?
Like, the holy oak, the holy oak.
Sorry.
I loved that made me laugh so much.
I did think that was quite clever.
Oh, it is, he was like, is obviously like the Sonic lipstick.
Sonic lipstick is too much.
I thought it was a really nasty joke on K9 and the bits that we
never saw.
No, no.
Well, canine sonic lipstick.
I'm very sorry, but...
He does feel a little denuded in this story, doesn't he?
Well, I mean, canine's in this, but obviously they were filming
the new K9 series.
Is that why did the rights to it?
I thought Scott Russell hated the idea of having to just all that
time that they took to shoot around that damn dog.
What did you say?
I'm sure it's because Elizabeth Slayton went, I am not getting
down on my knees at this age.
I'm six.
Not again.
Look, she's got the glamorous hair, those wonderful boots, you
know.
She looks great.
We haven't even talked about it.
What's she wearing?
The stripe top is from spiders or from something, like the stripe
top that she wears, is white from her time on the show.
They're cute little nods.
The card is very, yeah.
But the boots and the things are Tom, aren't they?
Like, I mean, she's just dressed as the fall doctor.
And it gets more so when she starts to bring you in the frock
coats.
Yeah, yeah.
You've got all the dollies?
Many topics.
They don't bend over and look at the dog eating.
Not for love nor money.
But I think it's a really clever writing and giving her a female
villain to go up against.
Yeah.
That's brilliant.
And the calibre of Samantha, because it brings Liz's A game to the
fore.
Not that she would never bring it to the fore, but it just shows
you what a good actress she is.
She doesn't have to try with the kids, but then you bring in a
professional and it's like, all right, okay.
I'm going to go toe to toe here and you can say, yes, she is this
central character, like the doctor.
It's funny, isn't it?
Because one of the things that's different about this is that, one
it's longer.
It's not a normal episode.
It's a full hour.
It's longer than a Doctor Who episode.
That's right.
So it's longer than rows and longer than everything changes.
So it has more time to do things and I think it spends some of
that time on an arc for Sarah.
And it's, in a sense, that arc isn't really properly necessary
because we saw school reunion.
And so I think it's slightly disappointing that we come back to a
Sarah who seems so gruff and she, she's just sort of plain being
busy.
It's just the Nissan in 1st gig.
I guess the thing is this.
Like, you know, when she left the show, and then came back from
various things in the 1980s, in my head, I always had a vision of
where Sarah would be.
And when she came back in school reunion, that was not the vision
that I had for, like I thought she'd be successful, she would move
on with her life and she would have kids, right?
That's what I thought anyway.
Still being an investigative journalist, et cetera, and being very
successful in having a happy life, which, of course, is not quite
what was presented.
So I think a lot of that sort of angst about that and not being
happy with it.
I sort of dealt with school reunion when coming into here.
But you're quite right.
She's quite standoffish to begin with and gruff with people and
you kind of think, was that really what she was like in the show?
I don't know.
I do like we do get her, actually her, for the 1st time, where she
kind of refuses to engage with Alan, and Alan makes some sort of
snarky comment, and then she just smiles quite genuinely, and it's
Sarah Jane, and she's back.
You know, that's how we remember her and she smiles and is sort of
terribly charming and stuff.
It's almost like there's an unwritten scene or it's there's a
subtext of her still being upset that the doctor's moved on and
she's been left to carry the can.
It's almost like this whole story as her coming to terms with, oh
I can do this myself.
I don't need to be carted around the galaxy.
But it's also the decision to do it with other people as well.
That thing at the end where she says I thought I could do this by
myself, but I realised today, that I don't want to.
And that's not tragic.
Like when she delivers it, she's not being tragic about it.
She's genuinely happy that she has someone to be with.
And even the rejection of Luke at the beginning because she's just
met this kid, you know, no, you're not...
How do you peel him?
You can't get your fingernails into the groove.
I wanted to ask you all please, since we've got so much to say.
Who is the mysterious man?
I think it's Philip Hinchcliffe.
Who is who?
Who left her?
There was one man of whom I had desires, but he has gone, gone
gone for dust.
I think it's Philippines.
Yeah, almost.
The pink socks.
Or just little Nigel Haver's look he was always doing with them.
Oh, funny you should say that.
Yes.
I wonder where that's going to go.
Who do you think that is?
Harry is it?
I thought it was meant to be the doctor.
Nay.
Yeah, the doctor. banged around with Tom long enough to, you know
no.
No, it's the doctor.
It's the doctor.
There's a terrible tombstone teeth and halitosis.
I don't believe.
Something, I remember Russell T. Davis talking about his original
pitch for Doctor Who, when he tried to stealthily bring it in, is
this show essentially that, where he wanted to have Judy Dench
living in a house at the end of a street and the kids find out
eventually that it's the doctor?
Like, that was how he was going to reboot Doctor Who without
telling anyone that he was doing?
Like for kids TV?
What was it going to have?
It wouldn't have a title sequence.
It was going to be called Torchwood.
Oh, no, it was going to be called whatever, you know, it was going
to be called, but it was going to be these kids who meet this
strange woman who lives in a house and that woman turns out to be
the doctor. generated doctor.
And as a lady doctor.
His idea was that it was Judy Dench.
Like, playing the doctor.
Like, but then you maybe never mention it's the doctor until the
BBC go, oh, all right, it can be Doctor Who at some point.
This feels like the same structure, the same setup.
Like the mysterious woman lives in the weird house.
The kids all come over to visit and get caught up in strange
adventures and I'm like, you did actually go make that show in the
end.
I mean, but even Doctor Who?
Like, the doctor is that.
Isn't it?
The doctor's just some weird person who gets them into scrapes, you
know.
But I love when they get into the attic and you see the pictures
of the past, like the brigadier and Harry, and she talks about
meeting the man called the doctor and there's a warmth and there's
and then we get the canine cameo through that, um, safe
inexplicably, inexplicable safe that goes to a black hole in some
other galaxy, which...
No, it's in Sweden.
No, no, Switzerland, isn't it?
Does it CERN?
They must have heard from their legal department.
Actually, no, not CERN crossed that out.
I mean, my question is like, you know, the people who lived in the
house before Maria and Alan, did they see like Maria and see those
lights over there and they went over and were just totally freaked
out and had to...
Yeah, yeah.
Kelsey said that they bailed it.
They went mad and we're talking about aliens and stuff.
It was really great.
And, you know, that could have well happened to her.
We may never know.
Yeah.
You know, there's, like, I did some stupid research and discovered
that Gary Russell put out a story that has almost become canon
that Maria and Luke bricked Kelsey up in one of the rooms.
And whenever Sarah Jane asks where she is, they go, oh, no, she's
just at the shop.
Shell be back soon. fabulous.
It's more Virginia Andrews with everything.
That dynamic.
It lands, doesn't it?
It works.
Yeah, you go, oh, yeah, I believe that's where Kelsey went.
Actually, Mr. Smith's got so many folding angles, I wouldn't.
I kind of love Mr Smith.
Do you?
I felt just disappointed that he's kind of like Russell's new take
on the memory TARDIS.
It's not this and it's not that.
Yeah, but I love it.
You know what I love about it is because, you know, I love kids TV
and I love the repetition.
Like, my favourite thing was watching Thunderbird 2 take 14
hours.
Yeah, yeah.
Like, I went to weather in Wellington and I was allowed to operate
the lever that makes the trees fold flat. onto a Thunderman 2 to
come down.
They were broom handles.
They were broom handles at the slower stake.
Yeah, yeah.
But yeah, like, you know, you love that repetition as a kid.
You love when in Battle of the Planets, it would take them 14
hours to turn into their various superhero forms.
And Mr. Smith is that, it's like, 0 my god, it's now another 6
minutes of fanfare and smoke coming out. which they eventually
made jokes about.
Fabulous.
They only make jokes about it in Doctor Who.
Not in Sarah Jane Adventures.
Yeah, yeah.
Because like kids love that.
Like, that's, you know, I work on a quiz show and kids love the
deranged repetition of the host saying the same thing at the same
time every single moment and it's kids love it.
Like Labradors.
It reminds me of Maya in Space 99.
Just the whole, like, the look to the camera with the, you know
inner eye and that suddenly she...
And it worked or ISIS when she puts it.
Oh, almighty Isis.
Who used to fly from a camera move?
Camera pan down.
Don't show her in the sky So we do find out his backstory later
and I do think it is a stroke of genius to call him Mr. Smith and
just refuse to explain that. think that's wonderful.
Well, you know, Sarah Jane Smith.
Of course she's got a Mr. Smith.
Is it her dad?
Bricked up?
With Kelsey, yeah.
Borners in that attic.
I mean, how does she afford that house in the middle of London?
Like, that is expensive.
No, she's a boomer.
Aunt Lavinia was a pretty boomer.
And also, yeah, of course, any other, she would have been...
But also, she sold that huge house.
It's hush money.
She got some money off suing Juno Baker for sexual harassment.
Yes.
So you know?
Yep.
We're just at the point in this conversation where you're talking
about all the parallels to Doctor Who.
But in here, the beginning of the episode.
I think it comes in into Earth.
And the end of the episode when they look up, out, and she's
talking again, which she'll do a number of times.
It's the same dialogue too.
We actually get her doing a voiceover as we go from space to earth
and then we actually see her do it in a weird way where she's
suddenly monologuing to the camera, which is above her head as we
sort of go up into space.
And so we've learned nothing really in a way.
You know, we started knowing this and now we end by knowing this.
Which is how it should be.
Yeah.
You got to hit the reset button.
You know, if they didn't do anything more, if they just did the
pilot, then, you know, what a way to end it.
I can't remember how they ended K9 and company.
Was it talking into a phone?
Not like that.
Going through a door, perhaps?
Another phone conversation.
Maybe the end of Kane on company is when she finally goes out to
finish that glass of wine.
She has wine time, like caffeine.
But I love the fact in this, like, you know, Mrs. Wormwood, you
know, until the next time, and I'm left at the end wanting more
you know, I want to see what happens next.
And it's just hilariously, the kids show team up where she teams
up with the Santaran from Maria's last story. that right?
It's like at the end of season 2 and she teams up with us on Tyron
because it's a kid show and why not?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that's marvellous.
So we do get to see her back and she is just incredible.
And she does sort of just fall short of next time I will not be so
lenient before there's a sort of giant explosion.
She does some great sort of staggering acting too in the middle of
the explosion, which is pretty marvellous.
She's so good.
I love her so much.
Like, I mean, it's great that she comes back.
You know, there's a bit of an arc.
It's a shame that she doesn't come back again.
I guess they sort of move that recurring thing onto the trickster
which is such a great creation and one of the best villains of all
time who I'd like to really see in Doctor Who.
But they use that so well here.
But coming back to this and watching it and all the beats that
you've said, like I still think it's a great pilot.
And it's a great show.
What Torchwood does is say we can have a miserable time here.
And what this show does is it says we're going to enjoy
ourselves.
And you've got Samantha Bond.
She's just absolutely incredibly watchable.
There's all sorts of comedy that really lands.
And there's the familiar thing.
You know, there's all of this kids TV stuff that the kids are
going to enjoy and that the fans who are watching it nostalgically
are going to enjoy.
Well, yeah, Blue Peter.
But I'm just talking about, you know, sneaking out in the middle
of the night going into the garden, that sort of dreamlike thing.
Your parents not knowing the weird alien thing that's happening.
All of that sort of stuff is just the staple of kind of kids TV
and here it all is.
But as fans, like we get so many Doctor Who references subtle
references in here and then we want more of that, you know, and
you have that anticipation that at some point things are going to
come up and ultimately they will.
Yeah.
You know, I've always loved that this is an unashamed kid's show.
Yeah, then Main Show is a family show.
And I think the problem with torture is it wanted to be an adult
show, and it was an adolescent show.
It's also, it's also, there's a kind of like death is bleak
thing.
It's just, yeah, because that's what it really is.
Denisley. yeah, I'm 12.
Everything's like the worst thing that ever happened.
But in Welsh, much worse.
It's even got an Amy Stewart clone in a cyber lady rig thing.
And I thought, oh, I don't know which shark we're jumping now.
Oh my god.
She was knock on words.
I was like, where are we going with this torture?
I guess torture was just trying to be all things to all persons.
Yeah, it's, I don't know.
Even when it came out, I was like, oh, it's mistaken being adult
for being being a teenager who thinks they're grown up.
Also, that it also had Barriman who, I mean, he was really
required to do a lot more than a musical comedy actor is probably
able.
Oh, absolutely.
And I remember that moment in utopia where he comes back and I
sort of think, oh, god, yes, okay.
That's, yes.
He can be like this.
Exactly.
That's really good. he's literally no fun at all.
Look, I think torture does eventually get there for 5 glorious
episodes.
Whereas exactly. and the one where they kill them all and it's
just Capaldi.
Best thing they ever did.
But this lands straight off.
And as soon as you see Liz turn around and go, ugh, new
neighbours.
I'm with you.
God, yes. and they've got children.
She should be in the remake of Wicked.
I mean, the green hat, flying fricking monkeys, canine. all
there.
It's all there if you look for it.
And I do think a lot of children, maybe not just the queer ones
although correct me, really like the cool stepmother.
They don't want the unctuous adult all the time.
Oh, you look sacrous.
Please, give me some space and respect and some cool. kids love
someone who doesn't love them.
That's it.
They're like, I want to hang out with my baron auntie.
She's she's fun.
In fact, that final scene is that there's something really great
about that final scene, because...
That was the title.
The Baron Auntie Adventures.
And now she's got a son.
Yeah, so that final scene, I think, where she sneaks off from her
wretched family, who are still talking about the check or whatever
and she just sneaks off and, you know, like it seems to be later
in the evening, but like, whatever, who cares?
immediately after that.
And she's just in the back garden with all of them and they're
having fun and it's kind of nice.
Kelsey's bricked up.
And Kelsey's, yeah.
She's still moving.
Another brick and scratch, a muffled bird.
I want a muffin.
Muff bubble shock bird.
Screaming?
No, no.
You know, like, I think that that's a nice ending in a nice sort
of place, no, because it's an escape for her as well, because
Maria starts sort of dislocated.
We do get that little moment where she sort of goes off to the
room crying because it's all been a little bit too much.
So she's found something as well.
That's not her flaky parents.
And that's very nice too.
It's really sweet.
Well, that's all the time we have for this season.
Flight through Entirety will be back for Christmas in July, with
the return of Dr. Mysterio, and back again after that for Peter
Capoldi's final season. 500-year diary will return in 2025.
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts
and you can keep up with us on our website, 500yearDiary.com, where
you'll find our social media links, as well as links to all of our
other podcasts, including our other Doctor Who podcasts, Flight
through Entirety, and the 2nd great and bountiful Human Empire.
Until next time, remember that life on earth can be an adventure
too.
So why not base jump into the office tomorrow morning?
Thank you very much for listening and good night.
Good night.
See you soon.
Good jumpings.
That was 500 Year Diary, starring Todd Bealby, Nathan Bottomley
Adam Richard, and Richard Stone.
The theme was composed by Cameron Lamb.
This episode where Kelsey Went, was recorded on the 19th of April
2024, and released on the 19th of May.
Once again, just a few hours after the release of this episode
head on over to our Doctor Who flash cast, The Second Great and
Bountiful Human Empire, for our hot takes on Stephen Moffat's
return to the show.
You can find us wherever you get your podcasts or check us out at
greatandbountiful.com.
What do you think?
I'm not sure if we've missed any beats.
Is there anything else that happening in this?
It's pretty simple Oh, I didn't mention how the muffin turned into
be turned out to be a TV writer that Russell T. Davis produced his
1st show.
Oh, really?
No, that's interesting.
Can we drop that in?
I think we dropped it in there. dropping it in.
Yeah, he is pretty, but in a kind of very, well, like you said
Todd, sort of boy band way.
I think he was in the footballer's wives back then.
Oh really?
Yeah.
Was he one of the wines?
He was a footballer.
Now, you didn't record an outro.
No, so we will do that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But so, yeah.
I mean, Alan is pretty and continues to be pretty.
And I kind of miss both of them, although I think Geese is pretty
great when she turns up.
Oh, she's the best. she's great.
Yeah, yeah.
She's perfect.
She's got a lovely energy about him.
Yeah, yeah.
But I did love Chrissy too.
She's the nearest just for you, isn't she?
The Annalise.
Russell always gives us one.
I'm so glad that we get Neres 25 years later on him.
How are you feeling about having 2 mums in the new series?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And a grandmother.
Yeah.
Yeah, I like the mum.
I like the mum. they're all good.
Yeah, good.
I was so excited that Sylvia was back for the specials.
Oh my god.
Oh, my God.
I think we all felt that slapped.
Tuna Madras.
Tuna Madras?
Jesus.
That sounds awful.
It sounds dreadful.
But it's so funny.
Like, it's just a brilliant.
Like, 0 my god, why had the show not been so funny for five?
Yeah, you can't imagine.
It's it is all of Russell's tropes, but then again, I mean, you
just want him to do your Schmorgesbjord for you, don't you?
Because he gets it right.
I'd eat the egg salad if he did it.
The tuna address?
The tuna Madras.
Oh, if Sylvia does the hand twist, the Disney hand twist.
Do you do the outro?
All right.
Well, that's all the time.
Sorry.
Well, that's all the time we have for this season.