WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-03 at 08:35:34

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to 500 year diary.

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The only Doctor Who podcast that can't bring itself to be a little

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less astringent, thank you very much.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Todd.

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I'm Peter.

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And I'm Simon.

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It's the 3rd of January, 1970.

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About 8 months ago, Doctor Who got cancelled, and today something

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strange and different is taking its place.

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The TARDIS is here.

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The brigadier is here, and someone who claims to be the doctor is

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somehow walking around as if he owns the place.

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But does he?

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Let's find out as we discuss spearhead from space.

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Naturally, last week, we spent a lot of time talking about the

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introduction of Patrick Troughton as the doctor, let's talk a

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little bit about how they go about introducing this new 3rd doctor

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to us.

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I'm quite fascinated that they fall into the same trap that I

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think they later fall into with Castra Valva in that the doctor is

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basically effectively absent from episode one, which is a big

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call.

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I mean, I think he's only line of dialogue is shoes or possibly on

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hand to me, madam, or something.

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But there's no, there's very, very little dialogue from the

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doctor.

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You don't see him.

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He just basically commentates into bed for most of the time.

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Whereas with Troughton, you had he's still driving the show. in

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that 1st episode.

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And in Tom with robot.

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There's a little bit of eccentricity, but then they kind of get on

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with it pretty quickly.

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I mean, if you compare it to, say, the Christmas invasion and the

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church on Ruby Road, both of them give the doctor a thing to do

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before their big entry.

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Yes.

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And because it's only one episode, you know, you're tuning in that

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night to see the new doctor.

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I mean that's really why you're there.

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In the classic series, I think, making your weight more than 25

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minutes is a bad idea.

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In the new series, you just give us a taste, but still make us

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wait for them.

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So they can get their big hero moment.

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Church on Ruby Road is a bit different too, though, because it is

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kind of also a soft relaunch for the entire series. anyway.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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So you're kind of trying to, in that, you're kind of trying to

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introduce the doctor as a character anyway, rather than this is

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the new doctor.

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Yes, and we did see 20 minutes of him, the previous episode.

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I'm not sure that I would characterise it as a trap.

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I think it's quite brave to set up the new format and then put the

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doctor in it rather than leading with the doctor and the show

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follows.

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I suppose it's like unethly child one then.

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It sort of is, yeah.

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But also thinking of the Christmas invasion.

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It follows that same format.

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The Christmas invasion.

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They added in the scene where David Tennant wakes up and fights

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the Santas for that scene, and that was added in at the behest of

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I think, Lorraine Heggesi, the controller of BBC One, who said you

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can't keep the doctor out of the action for so long.

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Now, here, what they do is you just get, you write, Simon, the

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doctor has very little dialogue in the 1st 2 episodes, very little

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but there is the one scene, which is the really important scene in

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episode one where the brigadier comes to the hospital and the

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doctor wakes up and recognises him and the brigadier starts to

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realise that this might be the doctor.

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And so apart from those startlingly brief shots at the start where

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the TARDIS materialises on model work, the doctor falls out, and

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then you get the reverse shot.

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The entire front half of the episode is reintroducing unit in the

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brigadier and introducing Liz Shaw.

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I think that's intentional.

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And I think it works.

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It brands it as this is a new program.

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Yeah, I have to agree.

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You have got that scene with the doctor in the bed, right?

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And that's really important.

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But up to that point, you really don't see him, they don't really

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show his face.

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It's almost this softly, softly approach and this show is about

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unit and investigating strange new objects or whatever and and

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introducing this show and setting up the brigadier Liz Dynamic

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which is very prickly.

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And I actually found the very 1st scene with them very stilted and

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quite, um, they looked uncomfortable.

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You know how actors like have worked together before or whatever

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and they have a have a chemistry or there's certain ease.

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They looked quite uncomfortable throughout that entire 1st

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sequence.

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I felt.

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Do we know anything about the shooting order, Peter?

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So they did all the stuff that was meant to be on location first

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so anything that you would reasonably expect was a location

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outdoors was shot on film.

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They then paused and they were going to go into their usual kind

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of rehearse record.

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They had about 2 weeks off and Derek Sherwin had already seen that

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there might be problems with strikes.

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And so he'd put in place a backup plan earlier than any other

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production to say, look, we can shoot all of this on film.

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And it actually happened.

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There was the strike and they already had the plan and the

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facilities ready to go.

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So they came back 3 weeks later and just started shooting

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everything on film on BBC property.

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So let's talk about the effect of that on how the show lands a

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little bit later on.

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I am still interested in the fact that, as Todd said, we seem to

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be introducing a new show.

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It's the unit show.

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It's like a spinoff in some ways, isn't it?

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And then the doctor drops into the spinoff.

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And once we hear about the doctor.

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Like once the brigadier hears about the doctor, the thing becomes

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largely about the doctor, maybe more than anything else.

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And so there's the mystery of who the doctor is, there's all the

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stuff at the cottage hospital, about, you know, his strange

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physiology, which is absolutely kind of new, isn't it, to the

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show?

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I don't think we've had 2 hearts before, have we?

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Yeah, Bob Holmes World building.

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Well, is it world building or is it just Bob Holmes saying we need

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to find a way to get the brigadier here?

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I don't know.

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Let's say he has 2 hearts.

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You know what I mean?

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there's a way in which that's made available to the show now

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because we've had the doctor's origin revealed, but it is

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absolutely arbitrary.

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Like, he's not intending to, you know, I think the thing that has

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a bigger impact on the Pertuy era is the coma that we get the 2nd

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episode after he's been shot, where he goes into a sort of one

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knee for perch twin.

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You know, self-induced coma.

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But it just feels like a different show.

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It doesn't even feel like 1970.

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Like, I think this feels like 1969, the Avengers or the prisoner

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or carry on films.

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And it's something that you could stumble across, like, on PBS or

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Channel 7 in the afternoon and it's some sort of movie that was

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filmed at that time and you didn't have to know anything about

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Doctor Who.

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And it's just this strange man's turned up and I found it quite

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interesting rewatching it like last week, just to see how, like, we

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don't even get the Tartis interior.

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Like, it's just, like, that's all just pushed to one side and it

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just feels so different.

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And the production team's new, isn't it?

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Like Derek Sherman's only done one...

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Well, he did the war games.

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Well, one story and Terrence Sticks is now script editor.

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I just felt like it's finding their feet.

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I think some things work really well and there's other sequences

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or shots or performances where I kind of think, oh, that's a bit

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rushed and a bit, you know, how's your mother, really?

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That's how I feel.

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I think its newness is underscored by the way that we watched it

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in Australia.

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It's impossible to divorce Spearhead from space from its repeat

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screenings in Australia. fans of a certain age, and that would

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include all of us, I think.

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It was the earliest Doctor Who story shown.

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So we never saw any of the black and white stories on their 1st

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transmission.

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And in 1978 and 79, it heralded a small repeat run of the existing

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625 line Pertweis.

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So they were spearhead, and then it would jump today off the

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Daleks.

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You'd have a couple of season 10 stories and then most of season

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11.

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So everything that existed on 625 line at the time.

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And so this to us was the beginning of Doctor Who.

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We would watch Tom Baker stories, you know, sometimes going up to

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the Keats time and sometimes up to seasons 18 and 19 later on.

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And then it would come back to this and this always served as a

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cold open to unit and the brigadier.

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We had no knowledge of the invasion.

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We didn't see it.

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We didn't get the book until like 1984 or whenever that came out.

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And so this felt like the start of the show.

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This felt like an opening episode.

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My experience is a little different.

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Similar but different in that when I picked up Doctor Who, it was

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at the end of one of those 65 line pert we repeat runs, the Planet

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of the Spiders.

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And Spearhead was shown at the beginning of that block.

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That was the last time they showed Pertwiz.

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So I think that would have been 78 or 79.

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That was the last time 79.

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That was the last time they showed the per weeks for a few years.

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They didn't go back to them until 1983.

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Late 1974.

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Well, late 1984. late 1983, they went back to...

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Without Spearhead.

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Now, 4 years, of course, is not very long in the modern era, but 4

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years when your sort of 7 is an eternity.

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But point being that that was my 1st proper experience of but they

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didn't show Spearhead.

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Then after our season 21 broadcast sometime after, they then went

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back and they showed Spearhead from Space, and that was the 1st

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time I'd seen it.

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It actually completely alienated me in a very strange way.

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I thought, just to echo what Todd, what you were saying.

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It feels different not just to what's immediately before it, like

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it's a relaunch of the show, but it feels different to also

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everything that comes after it.

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And I'm including from solurians on.

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It's like this standalone, like what Todd's saying. like a

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standalone, mini feature film, like B grade feature film that was

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made.

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And I didn't like it when I saw it in 984, I didn't like it.

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The fact that it was all on film, was very off-putting.

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I love it now.

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When I was sort of, whenever I was then 12.

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I found it very off putting.

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And I will say that a lot of the interiors, particularly the

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scenes in the brigadier's office and that early scene that you're

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talking about, Todd, that you said you felt was stilted, is so

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echoey.

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Yeah.

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It's so echoey.

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It like the microphone is miles away and pointed in the wrong

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direction or something.

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It's like in a school gym or something.

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Yes, exactly.

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Scient spaces that they're...

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Yeah, and even the, I mean, the hospital sounds a bit better, but

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all the unit, the lab, the doctor's lab and the brigadier's office

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just terrible from that point of view, but also it's just

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something about that image quality as well as film on film.

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I mean, it looks so good on the restored Blu-ray.

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It looks spectacular.

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At the time when we were watching it.

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You know, it was a 2nd generation print that had been doing the

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rounds by then.

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So it was a little bit faded in comparison.

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So it looked, it looked like a 60s piece of television.

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I agree with you, Simon.

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Like, I think my experience was the same as yours.

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I think that was the 1st time I saw spearhead as well.

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Like I'd seen the perch wee repeats, but not that.

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But I can't remember what I really thought of it.

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It was just like, 0 my goodness, they're going back to, I knew...

250
00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:31.019
It was so exciting to go back to that, but I can't remember my

251
00:11:31.019 --> 00:11:31.740
initial reaction.

252
00:11:31.799 --> 00:11:34.679
It was like getting to see Lee Shaw and just something very

253
00:11:34.679 --> 00:11:35.220
different.

254
00:11:35.279 --> 00:11:39.000
So I didn't form an opinion of it one way or the other.

255
00:11:39.059 --> 00:11:42.120
But it is so different from the next story as well, like in

256
00:11:42.120 --> 00:11:42.899
Silurian.

257
00:11:42.960 --> 00:11:44.460
For me, of course.

258
00:11:44.519 --> 00:11:49.500
And I think you as well, probably Peter, the fact that you would

259
00:11:49.500 --> 00:11:53.940
just see Spearhead and then suddenly it would be Joe means that it

260
00:11:53.940 --> 00:11:58.620
is unusual and stands out more even more than it does in the

261
00:11:58.620 --> 00:12:00.000
context of series 7.

262
00:12:00.059 --> 00:12:07.440
And I think what complicated it for me as a kid was that the auton

263
00:12:05.879 --> 00:12:12.840
invasion novelisation was one that I read and so was the doomsday

264
00:12:12.840 --> 00:12:13.559
weapon.

265
00:12:13.620 --> 00:12:19.559
And the doomsday weapon has Joe arriving for the 1st time as

266
00:12:19.559 --> 00:12:19.799
well.

267
00:12:19.860 --> 00:12:22.980
And so that's super strange.

268
00:12:22.980 --> 00:12:26.220
And all of that just made that whole thing kind of muddy and weird

269
00:12:26.220 --> 00:12:27.600
and unknowable.

270
00:12:27.779 --> 00:12:33.720
But when we did fly through entirety, and we'd watched our way

271
00:12:33.720 --> 00:12:37.679
through the 60s, and I'd done that myself for the 1st time

272
00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:42.299
watching it all in order, I mean, there's a reason why our episode

273
00:12:42.299 --> 00:12:47.100
on this story for Flight through Entirety is called they've

274
00:12:47.100 --> 00:12:54.000
cancelled my show, because suddenly just nothing is left of not

275
00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:57.720
only the, you know, the TARDIS, as we said, we don't see the

276
00:12:57.720 --> 00:13:00.419
interior, we see it very briefly from the outside.

277
00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:03.299
We do get a mention of the time lords, don't we?

278
00:13:03.360 --> 00:13:07.200
But they weren't even part of the 60s anyway.

279
00:13:07.259 --> 00:13:10.799
And they disappear from series 7 completely, I think, more or

280
00:13:10.799 --> 00:13:11.220
less.

281
00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:13.259
And so there's nothing left of the show.

282
00:13:13.320 --> 00:13:16.740
And you think that they're making something really completely

283
00:13:16.740 --> 00:13:17.460
different.

284
00:13:17.519 --> 00:13:23.039
And even though this is unusual for series 7, I still think that

285
00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:25.259
series 7 is unusual for the show as a whole.

286
00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:28.379
And is it just the budgetary thing?

287
00:13:28.440 --> 00:13:31.139
Is that why we've retooled the show like this?

288
00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:35.879
I'm going to say that actually, I don't think this is as much of a

289
00:13:35.879 --> 00:13:37.980
reformat as people say that it is.

290
00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:42.059
I think that invasion is the reformat, and this is the invasion

291
00:13:42.059 --> 00:13:43.019
with the colour turned up.

292
00:13:43.620 --> 00:13:46.500
This and the invasion are of a pair.

293
00:13:46.559 --> 00:13:49.740
It's impossible, I think, to separate them when you talk about how

294
00:13:49.740 --> 00:13:50.940
the series was evolving.

295
00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:55.259
The invasion scene at the end of episode 4 in this story is pretty

296
00:13:55.259 --> 00:13:58.379
much the invasion scene from episode 6 of the invasion.

297
00:13:58.440 --> 00:14:02.220
They even shoot in the same location when the autons come out to

298
00:14:02.220 --> 00:14:04.620
see the unit troops and the...

299
00:14:04.679 --> 00:14:06.899
It's shot in the same alleyway in the same location.

300
00:14:06.960 --> 00:14:10.740
And I think what they were trying to do was they'd seen what

301
00:14:10.740 --> 00:14:14.460
Douglas Camfield had done on the web of fear and the invasion and

302
00:14:14.460 --> 00:14:16.919
they thought, that's what we should be doing on Doc 2.

303
00:14:16.980 --> 00:14:20.519
And I think it was a very specific iteration of what Dr. 2 was.

304
00:14:20.580 --> 00:14:21.539
And they went, that works.

305
00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:22.440
Let's do that.

306
00:14:22.500 --> 00:14:25.379
And Spearhead is the 3rd in a trio of stories that does it.

307
00:14:25.440 --> 00:14:29.460
Yeah, I mean, they get the idea from Webber Fear, perhaps they

308
00:14:29.460 --> 00:14:33.240
refine it in the invasion and then they decide from Spearhead, yes

309
00:14:33.240 --> 00:14:35.399
this is the format of the show that we're going with now.

310
00:14:35.639 --> 00:14:37.919
And I think it's budget, not from the point of view that they've

311
00:14:37.919 --> 00:14:39.480
had a budget cut or anything. don't think.

312
00:14:39.539 --> 00:14:42.120
I think it's just budgetary in terms of the fact that we feel we

313
00:14:42.120 --> 00:14:45.059
can make a better show and the show will be more engaging if it's

314
00:14:45.059 --> 00:14:47.460
set on earth and you have Sidemen coming down the steps of St.

315
00:14:47.460 --> 00:14:50.279
Paul's and Auton's breaking out of shop glass windows, et cetera

316
00:14:50.279 --> 00:14:50.700
et cetera.

317
00:14:50.759 --> 00:14:52.259
I think is what the decision is.

318
00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:54.840
I think the fact that it's now suddenly in colour.

319
00:14:54.899 --> 00:14:56.639
We've got suddenly there's colour opening credits.

320
00:14:56.700 --> 00:15:00.299
There are certain other stylistic differences too that are created

321
00:15:00.299 --> 00:15:03.360
which is effectively what the show becomes from then until 1989, if

322
00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:06.360
I can say, in terms of the way we understand our understanding of

323
00:15:06.360 --> 00:15:09.360
how opening and closing credits work actually starts with

324
00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:11.940
spearhead from space, even though there's a bit of faffing around

325
00:15:11.940 --> 00:15:14.159
with things like inferno, in a massive of death and so on.

326
00:15:14.220 --> 00:15:16.200
But that's when we get that format.

327
00:15:16.259 --> 00:15:19.679
It's also Simon, the 1st time that you get end credits rather than

328
00:15:19.679 --> 00:15:23.519
just captions. even though the proper sting doesn't arrive until

329
00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:24.600
ambassadors of death.

330
00:15:24.659 --> 00:15:27.480
It's evolving during season seven, but I suppose my point being

331
00:15:27.480 --> 00:15:30.779
that there are all those peripheral things that make it feel like

332
00:15:30.779 --> 00:15:33.480
a greater relaunch than perhaps it actually was.

333
00:15:33.539 --> 00:15:36.840
Remembering, of course, that the vast bulk of people in Britain

334
00:15:36.840 --> 00:15:39.000
and certainly in Australia. are watching it on a black and white

335
00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:39.360
television.

336
00:15:39.899 --> 00:15:43.440
I think it's telling that Russell goes back to that opening

337
00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:48.059
credits with those colours and Futura and all of that sort of

338
00:15:48.059 --> 00:15:48.539
thing.

339
00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:51.779
Like he just goes back and makes it 3D and essentially does the

340
00:15:51.779 --> 00:15:52.440
same thing.

341
00:16:05.940 --> 00:16:10.620
So much of what makes Spearhead feel like reformat is by accident

342
00:16:10.620 --> 00:16:11.580
I think.

343
00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:14.759
So there was very nearly a version of Doctor Who, where Spearhead

344
00:16:14.759 --> 00:16:18.120
in season 7 had Patrick Troughton and Wendy Padbury in it, it

345
00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:21.659
would have been just a different version of Doctor Who, but with

346
00:16:21.659 --> 00:16:25.379
the same leads, and that would not have felt so much for relaunch

347
00:16:25.379 --> 00:16:27.419
as just a soft reboot of the show.

348
00:16:27.480 --> 00:16:30.720
It would have felt like the invasion with the colour turned up.

349
00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:33.539
So it's those cosmetic changes that mark it out.

350
00:16:33.600 --> 00:16:36.840
It's the fact of John Pertwey's casting, it's the new credits.

351
00:16:36.899 --> 00:16:39.779
It's the fact that it's in colour. and the shortened season which

352
00:16:39.779 --> 00:16:40.679
give it an aura.

353
00:16:40.740 --> 00:16:43.679
So if this hadn't been a shortened season, if this had been a

354
00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:47.460
1960s style season, then colour would have come in in about the

355
00:16:47.460 --> 00:16:51.899
3rd story slot because it was introduced in November of 1969 on

356
00:16:51.899 --> 00:16:52.740
BBC One.

357
00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:56.639
But all of those things came together to mark this as something

358
00:16:56.639 --> 00:16:58.860
new and fresh and a lot of it was actually by accident.

359
00:16:59.340 --> 00:17:05.339
Is it a mistake for the show to just say this is one thing that we

360
00:17:05.339 --> 00:17:10.680
believe that we can do well and then just concentrate on that one

361
00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:11.039
thing?

362
00:17:11.099 --> 00:17:13.920
I don't think it's a mistake necessarily.

363
00:17:13.980 --> 00:17:16.019
And I think it's demonstrated in season six.

364
00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:19.500
I think they start to grow tight or they start to run out of ideas

365
00:17:19.500 --> 00:17:22.140
for sort of funny and funky planets that they want to go to.

366
00:17:22.200 --> 00:17:24.000
It's season five, isn't it?

367
00:17:24.059 --> 00:17:27.119
We can go anywhere in time and space and we just go to a series of

368
00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:31.559
roughly identical, sort of completely fungible bases under siege

369
00:17:31.559 --> 00:17:32.819
where the same thing is happening.

370
00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:35.700
Yeah, it was season 6 is more imaginative.

371
00:17:35.759 --> 00:17:37.440
Yeah, to many more places.

372
00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:39.000
Simon, what's wrong with you?

373
00:17:39.059 --> 00:17:41.400
Is the planet of the Gon's not fun and funky enough for you?

374
00:17:41.460 --> 00:17:43.140
No, I love the Crown.

375
00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:44.339
I love credos.

376
00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:46.799
But I think I think there's a lot of, like if you look at the

377
00:17:46.799 --> 00:17:49.799
seeds of death, which I love, and you look at the war games, which

378
00:17:49.799 --> 00:17:53.880
I love, there are some costuming choices in both of those which

379
00:17:53.880 --> 00:17:55.799
make it all look a bit silly.

380
00:17:55.859 --> 00:17:59.160
Now, I think one of the reasons why season seven, season eight, and

381
00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:02.039
so on looks so much better is because there's none of that.

382
00:18:02.099 --> 00:18:05.039
The worst thing about them is the fact that the brigadies in a

383
00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:07.740
strange jumpsuit as opposed to a proper army uniform.

384
00:18:07.799 --> 00:18:09.480
Yeah, it's the future.

385
00:18:09.539 --> 00:18:10.859
It's the future.

386
00:18:10.920 --> 00:18:15.359
Oh, but Liz, can I just say Liz's jacket with the strange. brain

387
00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:17.579
the plastic, this plastic brain thing on this.

388
00:18:17.640 --> 00:18:18.720
I've always hated that.

389
00:18:18.779 --> 00:18:20.400
I hated it when I 1st started.

390
00:18:20.460 --> 00:18:21.240
The crotons.

391
00:18:21.299 --> 00:18:23.220
It's not a 1000000 miles away from Zoe's.

392
00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:24.240
Well exactly.

393
00:18:24.299 --> 00:18:27.240
The costume designer obviously said, no, damn it, I'm going to, you

394
00:18:27.240 --> 00:18:30.660
know, design a funky out of space costume, regardless of where

395
00:18:30.660 --> 00:18:31.079
we're set.

396
00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:33.660
Do you think there were any people who thought it might come alive

397
00:18:33.660 --> 00:18:34.259
and attack her?

398
00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:36.779
Oh, I see.

399
00:18:36.839 --> 00:18:40.859
Well, it's either that or her enormous eyelashes.

400
00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:41.339
Yeah.

401
00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:43.380
The eye makeup and the hair.

402
00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:46.680
Oh, the camp friend Janeway hair, bun head.

403
00:18:46.740 --> 00:18:49.859
I told you, you're just pointing out her enormous eyelashes

404
00:18:49.859 --> 00:18:52.680
because of that one shot in episode one where she says to the

405
00:18:52.680 --> 00:18:54.240
brigadier, invisible ink.

406
00:18:54.299 --> 00:18:55.980
That sort of thing.

407
00:18:56.880 --> 00:19:00.839
Oh, but she's so good with the brigadier.

408
00:19:00.900 --> 00:19:04.380
She's so consistently belittling of him throughout the entire

409
00:19:04.380 --> 00:19:04.619
thing.

410
00:19:04.680 --> 00:19:07.140
I was actually laughing at what he's saying.

411
00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:08.279
It's like icy.

412
00:19:08.339 --> 00:19:12.119
I was actually a little bit shocked by it because, you know, from

413
00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:16.440
next year onwards, we'll have the dynamic where Pertwee is grumpy

414
00:19:16.440 --> 00:19:20.880
and kind of obnoxious and is humanised by Joe. Here it's the other

415
00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:23.700
way around where Liz Shaw.

416
00:19:23.700 --> 00:19:28.559
And she's annoyed because she's kind of been virtually drafted, you

417
00:19:28.559 --> 00:19:30.240
know, from her job at Cambridge.

418
00:19:30.299 --> 00:19:32.339
Exactly. kidnapped, actually.

419
00:19:32.400 --> 00:19:35.099
And so she's basically annoyed the whole episode.

420
00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:36.299
She was even searched.

421
00:19:36.359 --> 00:19:37.319
Yes.

422
00:19:37.319 --> 00:19:40.440
That look on her face that would just says, I was even searched.

423
00:19:40.500 --> 00:19:43.079
It's almost like I'd searched in places that I'm not going to

424
00:19:43.079 --> 00:19:43.500
mention.

425
00:19:44.039 --> 00:19:47.640
No wonder she had to wear plastic. of death, actually the doctor's

426
00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:48.180
being grumpy.

427
00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:51.180
Uh, and maybe it's something to do with post-soliorine install.

428
00:19:51.180 --> 00:19:52.380
Just a coincidence.

429
00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:57.299
I like how warm the doctor is when he 1st meets her.

430
00:19:57.359 --> 00:19:59.519
Like, it's really lovely.

431
00:19:59.579 --> 00:20:03.779
Like, I was really quite shocked by that because the perch we I

432
00:20:03.779 --> 00:20:06.839
have in my head is really quite grumpy, like, at this point.

433
00:20:06.900 --> 00:20:11.160
But I really, really like that scene with them together.

434
00:20:11.220 --> 00:20:14.759
But just that dynamic with the brigadier, like throughout the

435
00:20:14.759 --> 00:20:18.299
entire thing where they're not really friendly until perhaps

436
00:20:18.299 --> 00:20:21.359
General Scorbi says that really sexist thing and then the

437
00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:23.700
brigadier says, well, she's got degrees and all that sort of

438
00:20:23.700 --> 00:20:24.000
stuff.

439
00:20:24.059 --> 00:20:27.180
You know, maybe there's a bit of breaking down.

440
00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:28.619
I was about to say, that's doctor sure to you.

441
00:20:28.680 --> 00:20:30.359
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

442
00:20:30.420 --> 00:20:34.200
When Scobie says, no, I should have a pretty pierced around the

443
00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:34.500
players.

444
00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:37.500
This is actually looking mad and smiling and it's when it's when

445
00:20:37.500 --> 00:20:39.960
the brigadier says, she's not just a pretty face, sir.

446
00:20:40.019 --> 00:20:41.400
And that's when she kind of scowls.

447
00:20:42.420 --> 00:20:46.440
I mean, I think that's one of the things that marks out Spearhead

448
00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:49.440
from Space and makes it feel like more of a reformat than it is

449
00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:51.779
because we could easily have had Wendy Padbury.

450
00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:52.559
This could have been Zoe.

451
00:20:52.619 --> 00:20:54.059
She was asked to stay.

452
00:20:54.119 --> 00:20:54.839
She said no.

453
00:20:54.900 --> 00:20:55.920
It could have been Zoe.

454
00:20:55.980 --> 00:20:59.339
Carrie John is the oldest companion we've had since Jacqueline

455
00:20:59.339 --> 00:20:59.700
Hill.

456
00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:01.740
So she's, I think, 29 or 30.

457
00:21:01.980 --> 00:21:03.359
So she's a proper adult.

458
00:21:03.420 --> 00:21:04.079
You can believe that.

459
00:21:04.140 --> 00:21:05.220
She's a woman, not a girl.

460
00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:07.619
She's a woman, not a girl. absolutely.

461
00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:08.940
She's 29 or 30.

462
00:21:09.180 --> 00:21:10.440
Nick Courtney is 40.

463
00:21:10.740 --> 00:21:12.660
Troughton's companions were children.

464
00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:16.200
And so that's a market change in the way that the series is

465
00:21:16.200 --> 00:21:17.220
presented to the audience.

466
00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:20.279
Do you know how old pert we is when he's filming this?

467
00:21:20.339 --> 00:21:21.059
He's 50.

468
00:21:21.299 --> 00:21:24.420
He's 50. younger than he's younger than we are.

469
00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:26.400
Isn't that extraordinary though?

470
00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:29.579
How do you feel about Pertu's performance here?

471
00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:31.740
Because this I don't think is where he lands.

472
00:21:31.859 --> 00:21:33.599
How do you feel about being older?

473
00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:34.440
How do you feel about me?

474
00:21:34.500 --> 00:21:35.160
Not good.

475
00:21:35.220 --> 00:21:36.900
I'm older than Capaldi.

476
00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:38.099
You can all just shut up.

477
00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:40.740
No, you're older than John Pertwee when he leaves the show.

478
00:21:42.539 --> 00:21:46.140
How do you feel about his performance because I actually think

479
00:21:46.140 --> 00:21:51.299
that he's a little bit more trout-ish in this story that he

480
00:21:51.299 --> 00:21:51.960
eventually lands on.

481
00:21:52.019 --> 00:21:53.400
I would say so too.

482
00:21:53.519 --> 00:21:56.519
Can I just say that 1st scene we were talking about the one where

483
00:21:56.519 --> 00:21:59.279
the important scene in the 1st episode where he meets the

484
00:21:59.279 --> 00:22:02.640
brigadier, I had never noticed before what a passable

485
00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:05.759
impersonation he's doing a Trouton in that entire scene.

486
00:22:05.819 --> 00:22:06.599
Right.

487
00:22:06.599 --> 00:22:09.180
When he's looking in the mirror and saying, that's not me at all.

488
00:22:09.240 --> 00:22:11.400
And he's even got Troughton's inflections.

489
00:22:11.460 --> 00:22:12.539
Go back and watch it.

490
00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:14.220
Every line is delivered as Troughton.

491
00:22:14.279 --> 00:22:15.359
That's an interesting observation.

492
00:22:15.420 --> 00:22:17.039
I'm full of them, Simon.

493
00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:21.839
No, I agree with you, because when I was watching it, I was going

494
00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:25.559
this is not perchway, and it was kind of going, this is written

495
00:22:25.559 --> 00:22:28.740
more like Trouton, but obviously he's playing it more like that.

496
00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:32.940
He's finding his feet because, you know, of his comedic

497
00:22:32.940 --> 00:22:33.299
background.

498
00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:34.140
Yeah, yeah.

499
00:22:34.140 --> 00:22:37.079
So there's times where I think a few little, you know, the eyebrow

500
00:22:37.079 --> 00:22:39.960
things and a few other things are perhaps overplayed a bit, but in

501
00:22:39.960 --> 00:22:41.339
terms...

502
00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:44.700
But in terms of actually playing it straight, he's actually doing

503
00:22:44.700 --> 00:22:46.140
I think, a really good job.

504
00:22:46.200 --> 00:22:49.980
I think what's interesting is that he's still an outsider, and we

505
00:22:49.980 --> 00:22:55.319
will get him reanalysed as a kind of member of the ruling class

506
00:22:55.319 --> 00:22:57.720
and I think that happens next year.

507
00:22:57.779 --> 00:22:59.039
I don't think that happens yet.

508
00:22:59.099 --> 00:23:03.599
And so here he's still doing crime and stuff, he's still...

509
00:23:03.660 --> 00:23:04.980
You know?

510
00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:10.559
And so, so he is a little bit of that sort of outsider, and the

511
00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:13.799
show doesn't centre around him all that much.

512
00:23:14.039 --> 00:23:16.980
And I think because we're doing an Avengers episode and because

513
00:23:16.980 --> 00:23:23.339
we're retooling the show, I think people don't realise just how

514
00:23:23.339 --> 00:23:29.039
little the doctor has to do with anything that goes on in the

515
00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:29.579
story.

516
00:23:29.640 --> 00:23:35.039
And so I think it's telling that 2 of the 3 cliffhangers are guest

517
00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:36.059
stars in peril.

518
00:23:36.119 --> 00:23:37.019
Yes.

519
00:23:37.079 --> 00:23:39.720
Yeah, but it's not about the guest star in peril. the advancement

520
00:23:39.720 --> 00:23:40.259
of the plot.

521
00:23:40.380 --> 00:23:40.920
Yes, of course.

522
00:23:40.980 --> 00:23:42.900
Oh my god, this is happening. you know, Scoby's being replaced.

523
00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:44.279
Yeah Oh my god, this is happening.

524
00:23:44.339 --> 00:23:48.000
You know, the dummies are coming alive in the workshop.

525
00:23:48.059 --> 00:23:48.900
As we knew, they were going to.

526
00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:52.500
Yeah, it's about as far as you can get from the JNT edict that

527
00:23:52.500 --> 00:23:54.660
every cliffhanger crashes a zoom on the doctor.

528
00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:55.440
Yeah.

529
00:23:55.500 --> 00:23:56.279
Yeah.

530
00:23:56.279 --> 00:23:58.140
But that's an Avengers thing.

531
00:23:58.259 --> 00:23:59.279
If you think about it.

532
00:23:59.339 --> 00:24:02.880
Like, you know, Richard and Brendan aren't here and there are real

533
00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:06.599
experts, but it's quite common, I think, for there to be a threat

534
00:24:06.599 --> 00:24:11.220
that kills off a guest character and then Steve and Mrs. Peel

535
00:24:11.220 --> 00:24:14.640
arrive later and sort of see that happen and that they don't

536
00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:17.640
themselves get put into peril until the very end of the episode.

537
00:24:17.700 --> 00:24:19.500
And that's what happens in this story.

538
00:24:19.559 --> 00:24:23.339
Like Liz and the doctor are not in peril, except, you know, being

539
00:24:23.339 --> 00:24:23.759
shot.

540
00:24:23.819 --> 00:24:25.559
He's shot by.

541
00:24:25.619 --> 00:24:26.339
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

542
00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:28.920
But that's as close as he gets to involvement in the plot and he

543
00:24:28.920 --> 00:24:31.380
doesn't advance the plot or anything like that.

544
00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:35.640
They're just around kind of investigating things and then they

545
00:24:35.640 --> 00:24:37.259
resolve the plot at the end.

546
00:24:37.319 --> 00:24:38.819
The director.

547
00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:40.200
Derek Martinez.

548
00:24:40.259 --> 00:24:41.160
Derek Martinez.

549
00:24:41.220 --> 00:24:42.420
Does he do any other?

550
00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:46.140
Oh, yes. who's one of the best directors to ever work on the

551
00:24:46.140 --> 00:24:46.380
show?

552
00:24:46.440 --> 00:24:50.579
So he started off with Galaxy 4 and Mission to the Unknown, but

553
00:24:50.579 --> 00:24:54.180
then came into his own with things like the 10th planet, Evil of

554
00:24:54.180 --> 00:24:55.680
the Daleks and the Ice Warriors.

555
00:24:55.740 --> 00:24:58.079
The Ice War is not very good, but it's very, very well directed.

556
00:24:58.140 --> 00:24:59.099
It's usually shot, yes.

557
00:24:59.160 --> 00:25:00.599
Does he do anything after this?

558
00:25:00.660 --> 00:25:02.640
No, it's his last one.

559
00:25:02.700 --> 00:25:04.799
I interviewed him in 1996.

560
00:25:05.099 --> 00:25:09.539
And it is absolutely clear that he was a man with ideas ahead of

561
00:25:09.539 --> 00:25:10.980
his time in how to shoot television.

562
00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:13.559
You can watch the existing episode of Evil of the Daleks.

563
00:25:13.619 --> 00:25:17.160
And the stuff that he does in the studio is just beautiful, the

564
00:25:17.160 --> 00:25:18.720
way that he's moving the camera around.

565
00:25:18.779 --> 00:25:21.480
And when you speak to people who worked with him, they didn't like

566
00:25:21.480 --> 00:25:21.720
him.

567
00:25:21.779 --> 00:25:24.900
They called him deadly Derek Martinez because he was so slow and

568
00:25:24.900 --> 00:25:26.339
methodical, but look at the results.

569
00:25:26.519 --> 00:25:30.539
Only reason why I say this is because, you know, there's certain

570
00:25:30.539 --> 00:25:34.380
directors and writers for us that stick in your mind from the

571
00:25:34.380 --> 00:25:38.099
classic series, and when his name came up, I just kind of went, oh

572
00:25:38.099 --> 00:25:39.900
I don't know what he's done.

573
00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:41.400
Like, so there's all those black and white.

574
00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:43.259
It's the only complete story that he says.

575
00:25:43.319 --> 00:25:43.980
Yeah.

576
00:25:44.039 --> 00:25:44.460
Okay.

577
00:25:44.519 --> 00:25:48.839
So you wouldn't have, it's not like, it's not engrained in my...

578
00:25:48.900 --> 00:25:49.740
It's only great in my mind.

579
00:25:49.799 --> 00:25:52.680
But, you know, there's certain things from John being in the

580
00:25:52.680 --> 00:25:55.920
wheelchair and that chase sequence to the way in which even the

581
00:25:55.920 --> 00:25:59.400
reporters seen from the, with the brigadier and Liz in the

582
00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:03.059
hospital where he's from, where it's from the media point of view

583
00:26:03.059 --> 00:26:08.039
and then the car crash and the window store dummies where you

584
00:26:08.039 --> 00:26:11.039
don't actually see those crashes, but just the way in which all

585
00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:15.839
that is shot is so different to other Doctor Who's.

586
00:26:15.900 --> 00:26:19.140
I can only, going back to that media scrum in the hospital foyer, I

587
00:26:19.140 --> 00:26:22.140
can only imagine that that would have been a studio scene.

588
00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:26.339
Oh, absolutely. yeah There is no way they'd been able to do that

589
00:26:26.339 --> 00:26:28.859
handheld thing in the studio.

590
00:26:28.920 --> 00:26:30.119
We are so blessed by.

591
00:26:30.180 --> 00:26:31.680
We are so blessed that this is on film.

592
00:26:31.740 --> 00:26:34.680
And imagine what the show would have been like. with sequences

593
00:26:34.680 --> 00:26:36.839
like that had this been the template moving forward.

594
00:26:36.900 --> 00:26:39.539
Had Doctor Who just been shot on film, it would have been, well

595
00:26:39.539 --> 00:26:41.880
for a start, you'd have all of the per year in the original colour

596
00:26:41.880 --> 00:26:42.359
format.

597
00:26:42.420 --> 00:26:46.259
But it was just completely changed, the feel and flavour of the

598
00:26:46.259 --> 00:26:46.440
show.

599
00:26:46.500 --> 00:26:50.519
Because, I mean, we've been talking about this when we've done

600
00:26:50.519 --> 00:26:55.140
startling Barbara Bain when we've done Space 1999, which is also

601
00:26:55.140 --> 00:26:56.039
shot on film.

602
00:26:56.099 --> 00:26:59.640
And so a lot of the special effects actually just need to be able

603
00:26:59.640 --> 00:27:03.359
to be done in camera and you don't have videotape to do video

604
00:27:03.359 --> 00:27:03.960
effects.

605
00:27:04.019 --> 00:27:08.880
And so here, everything looks just a lot less crap.

606
00:27:09.059 --> 00:27:15.359
Not just because film looks better and more expensive, not just

607
00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:18.779
because we're on location, but because we don't attempt any laser

608
00:27:18.779 --> 00:27:19.920
beams and stuff.

609
00:27:19.980 --> 00:27:20.460
Yes.

610
00:27:20.460 --> 00:27:21.839
And so it's...

611
00:27:21.900 --> 00:27:25.319
Yeah, and when ransom gets killed, you've got the film going

612
00:27:25.319 --> 00:27:27.180
backwards and the smoke going.

613
00:27:27.240 --> 00:27:27.960
Oh brilliant.

614
00:27:28.019 --> 00:27:30.000
That's another...

615
00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:32.039
So many people get exploded.

616
00:27:32.099 --> 00:27:35.279
Like so many actors have little charges in their costumes that

617
00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:35.640
explode.

618
00:27:35.700 --> 00:27:37.619
Which makes it feel so much more gritty.

619
00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:39.480
Yeah, it feels really visceral.

620
00:27:39.539 --> 00:27:44.160
But the Avengers is also like on film at the time, I think.

621
00:27:44.579 --> 00:27:49.380
And there's lots of stuff where you get close-ups of people's

622
00:27:49.380 --> 00:27:52.559
faces and stuff and their reactions and people who are hypnotised

623
00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:54.480
and all of that sort of thing.

624
00:27:54.539 --> 00:27:59.339
All of the autons who have that slightly shiny face thing that

625
00:27:59.339 --> 00:28:00.059
comes...

626
00:28:00.059 --> 00:28:03.660
Especially the secretary of the secretary...

627
00:28:03.660 --> 00:28:04.680
She's never commented on.

628
00:28:04.740 --> 00:28:06.359
It's so good.

629
00:28:06.420 --> 00:28:07.799
Like all of that is really good.

630
00:28:07.859 --> 00:28:12.119
Just that one line from the captain, where there's something odd

631
00:28:12.119 --> 00:28:12.660
about the faces.

632
00:28:12.779 --> 00:28:15.720
And that's the only reference you actually get to it, but it's all

633
00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:17.160
you need with the photograph of Channing.

634
00:28:17.220 --> 00:28:20.519
But it's like having the general open the door to the general and

635
00:28:20.519 --> 00:28:24.660
like it's so obvious that the natural face and the auton face and

636
00:28:24.660 --> 00:28:27.119
then Channing's face, like he is wonderful.

637
00:28:27.180 --> 00:28:28.859
Like, he's just brilliant.

638
00:28:28.920 --> 00:28:32.880
But it's that subtlety in the makeup and that, which is just

639
00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:33.359
brilliant.

640
00:28:36.420 --> 00:28:39.240
I just want to reiterate this thing about the film thing.

641
00:28:39.299 --> 00:28:40.559
It's not just a look.

642
00:28:40.619 --> 00:28:43.619
It's also the manner in which film is shocked. right?

643
00:28:43.680 --> 00:28:46.980
You've got the opportunity to shoot each angle of the sequence

644
00:28:46.980 --> 00:28:52.259
incompletely or mainly, and then cut when you want to afterwards

645
00:28:52.259 --> 00:28:53.640
cut between the various things.

646
00:28:53.700 --> 00:28:55.859
And you can do complete reverses, like some of those very powerful

647
00:28:55.859 --> 00:28:58.079
things, you know, where the doctor does say, shoes, and then you

648
00:28:58.079 --> 00:28:58.980
get the closer of the doctor.

649
00:28:59.039 --> 00:28:59.819
I beg your pardon?

650
00:28:59.880 --> 00:29:00.900
And it's these incredible things.

651
00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:03.539
You would never have been able to achieve that in a studio with

652
00:29:03.539 --> 00:29:07.500
enormous, huge cameras that need to be wheeled around. as quietly

653
00:29:07.500 --> 00:29:07.859
as possible.

654
00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:10.380
And the vision mixer, relying on the vision mixer to press the

655
00:29:10.380 --> 00:29:11.279
button at the right moment.

656
00:29:11.339 --> 00:29:13.799
You don't get that amount of finesse.

657
00:29:13.859 --> 00:29:15.359
Absolutely right, Simon.

658
00:29:15.420 --> 00:29:16.140
And let me add to that.

659
00:29:16.200 --> 00:29:19.319
This is why Spearhead from Space is not so much a relaunch of the

660
00:29:19.319 --> 00:29:20.819
show, but a bit of a cul-de-sac.

661
00:29:20.880 --> 00:29:24.779
I think Dog 2 and the Silurians is closer to the war games than

662
00:29:24.779 --> 00:29:26.579
Spearhead for the Spaces.

663
00:29:26.819 --> 00:29:30.900
Spearhead from Space is like the location footage on the

664
00:29:30.900 --> 00:29:31.319
invasion.

665
00:29:31.440 --> 00:29:34.500
That's the only analogue that I can think of, which is why I think

666
00:29:34.500 --> 00:29:36.720
they looked at what Douglas Canfield did on Webber Fair and the

667
00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:37.980
invasion and went, let's go that way.

668
00:29:38.039 --> 00:29:43.440
Spearhead from Space had 33 days of shooing. which is just

669
00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:46.019
ridiculous for any Doctor Who story.

670
00:29:46.079 --> 00:29:48.960
So they were shooting a tiny amount of film every day, 3 minutes

671
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:49.920
of film a day.

672
00:29:49.980 --> 00:29:54.119
They then were able to take all of that, and edit it as a film

673
00:29:54.119 --> 00:29:56.519
which is why it moves like an action film.

674
00:29:56.579 --> 00:29:59.460
No other Doctor Who can do that because it's physically impossible

675
00:29:59.460 --> 00:30:00.599
to do it in the studio.

676
00:30:00.660 --> 00:30:03.059
You can't cut together a multicamera sequence like that.

677
00:30:03.119 --> 00:30:06.660
So Spearhead from Space is not a relaunch for the show in that

678
00:30:06.660 --> 00:30:07.079
respect.

679
00:30:07.140 --> 00:30:09.480
It's its own individual and unique thing.

680
00:30:09.539 --> 00:30:10.380
Yeah.

681
00:30:10.440 --> 00:30:11.160
Yeah.

682
00:30:11.339 --> 00:30:15.119
The only disadvantages I sort of highlighted before about the film

683
00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:16.680
thing is the soundtrack.

684
00:30:16.740 --> 00:30:21.539
I mean, 16 mil film has a tiny, tiny magnetic stripe of sound.

685
00:30:21.539 --> 00:30:26.759
And I think that that's how the sound was being recorded, which is

686
00:30:26.759 --> 00:30:28.319
when the way they normally record it.

687
00:30:28.380 --> 00:30:31.079
It'd be like using a, probably what would have been a news camera

688
00:30:31.079 --> 00:30:32.220
like for news footage.

689
00:30:32.279 --> 00:30:35.700
Because as I said, the only disadvantage is that the sound is very

690
00:30:35.700 --> 00:30:40.740
thin and echo-y. very tinny and that's just the nature of how it

691
00:30:40.740 --> 00:30:41.220
was recorded.

692
00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:43.920
I think if the show was being filmed on film properly.

693
00:30:44.099 --> 00:30:46.019
There would have been a separate.

694
00:30:46.079 --> 00:30:48.240
I mean, I don't I don't want to say that that's definitely the way

695
00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:50.220
it was done, but that's what my guard instinct says.

696
00:30:50.279 --> 00:30:53.880
And just to contrast to space 1999, not that I really watched it

697
00:30:53.880 --> 00:30:57.000
all that much, but this has a sharpness to it in terms of the

698
00:30:57.000 --> 00:31:00.599
cutting and the direction that I don't think space 1999 really has

699
00:31:00.599 --> 00:31:02.460
but the Avengers does have.

700
00:31:02.519 --> 00:31:03.660
But you know why that is, Simon?

701
00:31:03.720 --> 00:31:06.299
It's because it's not set up to be filmed.

702
00:31:06.359 --> 00:31:07.920
It is not meant to be filmed, this script.

703
00:31:07.980 --> 00:31:12.240
And so it's structured like a television drama, whereas Space 1999

704
00:31:12.240 --> 00:31:12.720
is not.

705
00:31:12.779 --> 00:31:14.160
It's structured as a film drama.

706
00:31:14.220 --> 00:31:17.400
So you have lots of languid scenes with no dialogue in them.

707
00:31:17.460 --> 00:31:20.400
This is just a Doctor Who story that's meant to be shot in the

708
00:31:20.400 --> 00:31:22.319
studio that's actually being shot on film.

709
00:31:22.380 --> 00:31:26.039
And so it moves much quicker than any Space 1999 episode.

710
00:31:26.099 --> 00:31:27.420
Languid is the word.

711
00:31:27.480 --> 00:31:30.000
Just a quick note on directors.

712
00:31:30.059 --> 00:31:33.180
You said Derek Martinez didn't have a very good reputation.

713
00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:34.200
People didn't like to work with him.

714
00:31:34.259 --> 00:31:37.079
So many of the better directors on Doctor Who had their

715
00:31:37.079 --> 00:31:37.559
reputation.

716
00:31:37.619 --> 00:31:40.920
Douglas Camfield was apparently like running it like a military

717
00:31:40.920 --> 00:31:42.180
operation, like everyone hated it.

718
00:31:42.299 --> 00:31:45.180
Graham Harper was seen as chaotic in the 80s.

719
00:31:45.240 --> 00:31:45.779
Do you know what I mean?

720
00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:47.940
It's just, and who are the directors that people love to work

721
00:31:47.940 --> 00:31:48.180
with?

722
00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:50.279
People like Penn and Roberts and Peter Moffatt.

723
00:31:50.339 --> 00:31:50.819
Yes, exactly.

724
00:31:50.880 --> 00:31:51.779
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

725
00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:52.799
That'll do, love.

726
00:31:53.940 --> 00:31:56.220
That'll do attitude.

727
00:31:56.279 --> 00:31:58.319
Well, that'll do is that was 90%.

728
00:31:58.380 --> 00:31:58.740
That's enough.

729
00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:03.720
Let's not forget as well that Douglas Canfield was offered the

730
00:32:03.720 --> 00:32:05.640
producership of the show before Barry Letts.

731
00:32:05.700 --> 00:32:09.660
So clearly there was something to the fact that they wanted to ape

732
00:32:09.660 --> 00:32:11.579
that style that he'd brought to the show.

733
00:32:11.640 --> 00:32:13.920
And Simon, also what you were saying about the soundtrack.

734
00:32:13.980 --> 00:32:14.940
I noticed that as well.

735
00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:19.319
Part of it's to do with the 16 mil magstripe, but also Doctor Who

736
00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:20.759
had no ADR budget.

737
00:32:20.819 --> 00:32:23.700
And so they never ADR stuff that was on location.

738
00:32:23.759 --> 00:32:28.259
If it was meant to be made on film, like the Avengers, they ADR

739
00:32:28.259 --> 00:32:28.500
it.

740
00:32:28.619 --> 00:32:29.579
And so it sounded like that.

741
00:32:29.640 --> 00:32:31.200
They got rid of all of the echo.

742
00:32:31.259 --> 00:32:34.019
They put in dialogue in place, whereas this just can't do it.

743
00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:38.160
There is a line that I saw was ADR in the brigadier's office, the

744
00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:39.779
doctor, when Ransom's in the office.

745
00:32:39.839 --> 00:32:42.480
I thought that's been, obviously there was, there must have been a

746
00:32:42.480 --> 00:32:45.180
terrible set, but basically it was only when they really had to

747
00:32:45.180 --> 00:32:46.500
that they, that's right.

748
00:32:46.559 --> 00:32:48.059
They do it very occasionally throughout the show.

749
00:32:48.119 --> 00:32:50.519
I mean, there's a scene in Lagopolis, which is ADR.

750
00:32:50.579 --> 00:32:53.220
It's the scene in the TARDIS with the doctor and address, where

751
00:32:53.220 --> 00:32:54.660
everything is overdubbed.

752
00:32:54.720 --> 00:32:55.920
But that's absolutely...

753
00:32:55.980 --> 00:32:57.180
We disposed of the master.

754
00:32:57.240 --> 00:33:00.420
That's exactly the one See, I know exactly what you're talking

755
00:33:00.420 --> 00:33:00.839
about.

756
00:33:11.940 --> 00:33:15.420
So, let's talk about the world that this creates.

757
00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:21.059
We say that this is set on Earth, but in what sense...

758
00:33:21.059 --> 00:33:23.099
How do you mean?

759
00:33:23.160 --> 00:33:24.779
So what do we see?

760
00:33:24.839 --> 00:33:29.039
One of the one of my biggest complaints, for instance, about the

761
00:33:29.039 --> 00:33:31.259
hand of fear is that it's one of them.

762
00:33:31.319 --> 00:33:32.759
Nominally set on earth.

763
00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:37.380
It's set on earth, but it's set in a quarry, in a nuclear power

764
00:33:37.380 --> 00:33:40.859
station and in a very, very cheaply realised hospital.

765
00:33:42.059 --> 00:33:45.480
That's Bob Baker and Dave Martin work. world.

766
00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:49.920
There's no sense that it's actually said in the real world.

767
00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:54.720
But here, you do get that sense because you've got, you know

768
00:33:54.720 --> 00:33:59.160
people with old-fashioned vacuum cleaners and phones and beepers

769
00:33:59.160 --> 00:34:03.539
and then all the different fashions than out in the street with

770
00:34:03.539 --> 00:34:06.420
the window shop and the cars.

771
00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:09.360
You really do get that sense that it's set at a particular time.

772
00:34:09.420 --> 00:34:11.940
All those old ladies with head scarves.

773
00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:15.719
Yes, not to mention that the Auton dummies in episode 4 breaking

774
00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:18.960
out of the shops, they've got some pre-decimal currency price tags

775
00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:19.260
on them.

776
00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:21.300
I only noticed that last day.

777
00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:25.679
Like I said, £17, one shilling. absolutely extraordinary.

778
00:34:25.739 --> 00:34:29.159
I actually think that this story is one of the few in Doctor Who

779
00:34:29.159 --> 00:34:31.739
at all, particularly around this time, which does really feel like

780
00:34:31.739 --> 00:34:35.099
it is set in the real world, because it feels like a cottage

781
00:34:35.099 --> 00:34:37.679
hospital, you've got the Seelies, you've got the high street.

782
00:34:37.739 --> 00:34:40.380
Whereas, as you said, with hand to fear, but also things like, you

783
00:34:40.380 --> 00:34:41.820
know, claws of axles and so on.

784
00:34:41.880 --> 00:34:44.699
They're set in nuclear power stations and research facilities, and

785
00:34:44.699 --> 00:34:46.079
they're not set anywhere near the real world.

786
00:34:46.199 --> 00:34:49.079
And it's so refreshing to see the high street.

787
00:34:49.139 --> 00:34:49.679
Yes.

788
00:34:49.679 --> 00:34:53.159
To see the ladies with hairnets in the bus stop and the cop and

789
00:34:53.159 --> 00:34:53.400
the thing.

790
00:34:53.460 --> 00:34:57.719
I think the auton kind of smashing up the Sealey's house and

791
00:34:57.719 --> 00:34:59.340
there's a piano in there.

792
00:34:59.400 --> 00:35:01.440
Yes, and there's, yes, an old...

793
00:35:01.500 --> 00:35:04.199
All I could think of was all of these little things, these little

794
00:35:04.199 --> 00:35:09.420
kind of ornaments and stuff that they'd accumulated over...

795
00:35:09.480 --> 00:35:12.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah. it all just seemed really quite real.

796
00:35:12.780 --> 00:35:14.940
Yes, and horrible.

797
00:35:14.940 --> 00:35:18.780
And just the miserable English factory.

798
00:35:18.840 --> 00:35:19.739
Do you know what I mean?

799
00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:24.300
That mid-20th century horrible English factory. like they were

800
00:35:24.300 --> 00:35:26.099
still making those dolls on ration books.

801
00:35:26.280 --> 00:35:30.599
But it was that the, the, the women, you know, sewing their hair

802
00:35:30.599 --> 00:35:31.320
on.

803
00:35:31.320 --> 00:35:32.340
And the eyelashes.

804
00:35:32.460 --> 00:35:33.300
Yeah, yeah.

805
00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:34.199
All of that stuff.

806
00:35:34.260 --> 00:35:37.440
Like that is something, you know, Doctor Who has been to

807
00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:42.300
contemporary earth a few times by this point, but not very many.

808
00:35:42.360 --> 00:35:43.500
It's not as grim as this.

809
00:35:43.559 --> 00:35:45.059
Yeah, but it's proper England.

810
00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:47.940
Like, that's proper mid-20, like, that's England in 1970.

811
00:35:48.059 --> 00:35:49.500
It really, really captures it.

812
00:35:49.559 --> 00:35:51.119
And the life that the Celies have.

813
00:35:51.179 --> 00:35:52.679
I mean, we forget.

814
00:35:52.739 --> 00:35:55.260
And of course, this was the case here, but people who lived in

815
00:35:55.260 --> 00:35:59.760
rural areas, you know, at that time, it's actually practically

816
00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:01.320
indistinguishable from the 3rd world.

817
00:36:01.380 --> 00:36:03.360
Like he's going out to poach for rabbits.

818
00:36:03.420 --> 00:36:05.219
He's hunting his own food.

819
00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:07.679
They've got they've got their stuff, they've got their trinkets

820
00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:10.679
and stuff, but, you know, I'm almost sceptical that there's

821
00:36:10.679 --> 00:36:12.179
electricity in that house, for instance.

822
00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:13.739
You know what I mean?

823
00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:15.360
I mean, obviously miles from anywhere.

824
00:36:15.480 --> 00:36:16.559
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

825
00:36:16.619 --> 00:36:19.320
I think they're probably better off, you know, the TV poor

826
00:36:19.320 --> 00:36:19.679
people.

827
00:36:19.739 --> 00:36:21.059
Yes, you know what I mean?

828
00:36:21.119 --> 00:36:23.880
But, but like that seems really real.

829
00:36:23.940 --> 00:36:26.099
The hospital, all of that sort of stuff.

830
00:36:26.699 --> 00:36:29.940
It also shows in the social mores, I think, in the way that people

831
00:36:29.940 --> 00:36:30.780
deal with each other.

832
00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:34.380
So when you have Dr. Henderson and he needs the porter to turn off

833
00:36:34.380 --> 00:36:37.800
the vacuum cleaner, he doesn't say, could you turn it off?

834
00:36:37.860 --> 00:36:40.139
He gets irritated and snaps his fingers at him.

835
00:36:40.199 --> 00:36:41.760
How'd you see I'm on the phone?

836
00:36:41.820 --> 00:36:42.360
Exactly.

837
00:36:42.420 --> 00:36:44.940
Yeah, he's a doctor where he's just a worker.

838
00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:48.059
And you see the way that Sam Seely deals with his wife.

839
00:36:48.119 --> 00:36:48.960
It's not 70s.

840
00:36:49.019 --> 00:36:52.139
It's very 50s and 60s. the way, you know, fetch me some grub

841
00:36:52.139 --> 00:36:52.500
woman.

842
00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:53.760
What you're looking at?

843
00:36:53.820 --> 00:36:54.179
hungry.

844
00:36:54.239 --> 00:36:55.320
Yeah, what you looking at, woman?

845
00:36:55.380 --> 00:36:57.960
Although she, of course, does give it back to him.

846
00:36:58.019 --> 00:36:58.860
Yeah, 0 yeah.

847
00:36:58.920 --> 00:37:01.019
I don't think I'm having that old box in my house.

848
00:37:01.079 --> 00:37:03.179
It's so nice.

849
00:37:03.239 --> 00:37:04.500
You haven't been thieving again.

850
00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:06.900
As we record, Todd's getting married next week.

851
00:37:06.960 --> 00:37:11.099
So he has all of this to look forward to.

852
00:37:11.340 --> 00:37:14.760
Todd, don't think Ash is going to have that old trunk in your

853
00:37:14.760 --> 00:37:15.300
apartment.

854
00:37:15.420 --> 00:37:19.320
I just need to point out a bit of the wonderful Mrs. Seely

855
00:37:19.320 --> 00:37:22.619
performance, though, which is sort of foreshadowing what we see in

856
00:37:22.619 --> 00:37:28.260
the old hag in Talons of Wing Chiang. where she said, where she

857
00:37:28.260 --> 00:37:29.699
says, no, no, no, no.

858
00:37:29.760 --> 00:37:33.119
Something must have frightened him dreadful before he died.

859
00:37:34.559 --> 00:37:39.719
All I could think of was the woman from the Silurians coming up

860
00:37:39.719 --> 00:37:42.960
next who was found in the park. paralysed by fear.

861
00:37:43.019 --> 00:37:44.280
She may have seen something.

862
00:37:47.340 --> 00:37:50.820
It's good though, she's alive, because you think that when you see

863
00:37:50.820 --> 00:37:53.760
her body on the floor with your life, that she's been killed.

864
00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:55.739
No, I'm being knocked unconscious. so glad that she wasn't sure.

865
00:37:55.860 --> 00:38:01.679
And it's kind of, it is sort of a penalty, you know, like it's Mr

866
00:38:01.679 --> 00:38:07.199
Sealey pays a terrible price for his poor person kind of trying to

867
00:38:07.199 --> 00:38:10.380
get money out of the lovely middle class people in the tent.

868
00:38:10.440 --> 00:38:12.239
They're selling the Thunderball.

869
00:38:12.360 --> 00:38:16.619
So equating being poor with being stupid and being cunning.

870
00:38:16.739 --> 00:38:17.940
Exactly.

871
00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:19.139
And being a bit dishonest.

872
00:38:19.199 --> 00:38:19.800
That's right.

873
00:38:19.860 --> 00:38:21.179
He's the working class character.

874
00:38:21.239 --> 00:38:22.199
He's a bit thieving.

875
00:38:22.260 --> 00:38:25.079
He's also stupid and that he doesn't realise the importance of

876
00:38:25.079 --> 00:38:26.820
these things and the danger that he could be in.

877
00:38:26.880 --> 00:38:30.659
It's a very interesting representation of British society.

878
00:38:30.719 --> 00:38:33.059
And likewise, the porter is portrayed as stupid.

879
00:38:33.119 --> 00:38:33.900
You know, he sells that.

880
00:38:33.900 --> 00:38:35.039
And he sells the story.

881
00:38:35.039 --> 00:38:36.599
And he sells the story to the media.

882
00:38:36.659 --> 00:38:38.280
It's tell from Thomas.

883
00:38:38.400 --> 00:38:40.980
He's legally required to be evil in everything.

884
00:38:41.039 --> 00:38:42.900
He's not evil. evil in the grand death.

885
00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:45.599
No, that's true, but he's super evil in survivors.

886
00:38:45.719 --> 00:38:47.159
Oh.

887
00:38:47.219 --> 00:38:49.199
And then we get Madame Tussaud.

888
00:38:49.260 --> 00:38:50.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

889
00:38:50.579 --> 00:38:52.199
Again, just miserable as hell.

890
00:38:53.219 --> 00:38:56.760
Well, those fashions, for God's sake.

891
00:38:56.760 --> 00:38:58.139
They were spectacular.

892
00:38:58.199 --> 00:39:01.260
Talking about the fashions, the thing I loved was there, and you

893
00:39:01.260 --> 00:39:03.480
get it in tear of the autumns, which you'll talk about next week.

894
00:39:03.539 --> 00:39:08.159
The glasses of that era where this very heavy top with the thing

895
00:39:08.159 --> 00:39:10.320
if they're very kind of... sort of NHS glass.

896
00:39:10.380 --> 00:39:11.699
Yes, they're very Henry Kissinger.

897
00:39:11.760 --> 00:39:14.039
Simon, Simon, Mary Whitehouse.

898
00:39:14.099 --> 00:39:16.860
Yes, yes, exactly. exactly what they are.

899
00:39:16.920 --> 00:39:18.960
It's just so one unit.

900
00:39:19.079 --> 00:39:21.840
It's like what Todd's saying before about it being a film.

901
00:39:22.079 --> 00:39:24.539
It all just comes together as one consistent unit.

902
00:39:30.599 --> 00:39:34.320
So, I want to talk just briefly about the nestings because this is

903
00:39:34.320 --> 00:39:37.679
not the nestings as they end up being.

904
00:39:37.739 --> 00:39:41.219
And this is a very kind of Bob Holmes approached the program.

905
00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:45.719
So this is not a show where rubber aliens invade the earth.

906
00:39:45.780 --> 00:39:53.159
The nestings have been colonising planets for a 10000000 years.

907
00:39:53.219 --> 00:39:58.800
They have evolved beyond any kind of physical presence.

908
00:39:58.860 --> 00:40:03.480
Like there is just something strange and kind of Eldritch about

909
00:40:03.480 --> 00:40:04.019
them.

910
00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:07.920
And when Holmes takes over the program, you know, he does these

911
00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:11.880
evils from the dawn of history and the nestings are that.

912
00:40:11.940 --> 00:40:13.860
But do you know what they are as well?

913
00:40:13.920 --> 00:40:15.059
They're the great intelligence.

914
00:40:15.179 --> 00:40:17.400
The great intelligence is the same thing.

915
00:40:17.460 --> 00:40:20.579
It crafts itself bodies to do its bidding.

916
00:40:20.639 --> 00:40:23.099
It doesn't actually put its intelligence into them.

917
00:40:23.159 --> 00:40:28.139
It maintains the uncorporeality of itself, but the idea is the

918
00:40:28.139 --> 00:40:28.380
same.

919
00:40:28.440 --> 00:40:31.739
And yet it's more evidence of how the reformat of the show or the

920
00:40:31.739 --> 00:40:34.380
new direction of the show steals from the web of fear and the

921
00:40:34.380 --> 00:40:34.860
invasion.

922
00:40:34.920 --> 00:40:35.639
Yeah.

923
00:40:35.699 --> 00:40:38.519
But unlike something like the web of fear, and perhaps more like

924
00:40:38.519 --> 00:40:39.000
the invasion.

925
00:40:39.059 --> 00:40:42.599
The threat he's building, like when the doctor arrives and when

926
00:40:42.599 --> 00:40:45.000
the story starts, there isn't an alien invasion underway, there

927
00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:46.860
isn't already a disturbance.

928
00:40:46.920 --> 00:40:48.119
Life is normal.

929
00:40:48.179 --> 00:40:48.840
Life is fine.

930
00:40:48.900 --> 00:40:52.380
And then gradually as they collect the nestine spheres.

931
00:40:52.440 --> 00:40:55.440
And it's that thing back, like in Power of the Darks, they're not

932
00:40:55.440 --> 00:40:58.860
ready to take over yet, they're still building up their strength.

933
00:40:58.920 --> 00:41:01.800
There's a bit of a war of the world's thing with the sort of

934
00:41:01.800 --> 00:41:05.400
bombardment and what's all this and we don't know what this is, but

935
00:41:05.400 --> 00:41:07.800
we should be, we're not as nearly concerned as we should be.

936
00:41:07.860 --> 00:41:13.019
It's funny how quick it all is too, because, you know, they arrive

937
00:41:13.079 --> 00:41:16.440
things arrive at the same time as the doctor very exciting.

938
00:41:16.500 --> 00:41:18.059
Very, very soon.

939
00:41:18.119 --> 00:41:22.139
Like, in a couple of days, they've replaced all of the most boring

940
00:41:22.139 --> 00:41:26.039
civil servants in the entire government musicians and frozen them

941
00:41:26.039 --> 00:41:27.420
somehow and put them in Madam 2.

942
00:41:27.719 --> 00:41:30.239
But that's already the second, that's already the 2nd bombardment

943
00:41:30.239 --> 00:41:30.420
though.

944
00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:33.239
Because remember, it was another fleet of meteorites.

945
00:41:33.239 --> 00:41:35.460
Swarm leaders in the 2nd lead.

946
00:41:35.460 --> 00:41:37.559
Yes, and they haven't frozen them and put them in Madame 2

947
00:41:37.559 --> 00:41:37.980
swords.

948
00:41:38.039 --> 00:41:40.619
They don't actually replace them until they come to life until

949
00:41:40.619 --> 00:41:41.219
they come to life.

950
00:41:41.280 --> 00:41:43.500
And there were probably a couple because I assume Channing comes

951
00:41:43.500 --> 00:41:46.800
down, the Channing one comes down and I assume there was there was

952
00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:48.539
a real Channing that he's replaced or something.

953
00:41:48.599 --> 00:41:49.019
Maybe.

954
00:41:49.079 --> 00:41:53.280
That's what I was going to say, like Channing is his own special

955
00:41:53.280 --> 00:41:58.800
entity that has to be the 1st one there as a whole creature.

956
00:41:58.800 --> 00:42:00.659
Yeah, in a whole body.

957
00:42:00.719 --> 00:42:03.780
Yeah, they make extinction, don't they, between the facsimiles

958
00:42:03.780 --> 00:42:06.360
which are Channing and the facsimile of Scobi.

959
00:42:06.420 --> 00:42:09.360
And the regular autons, which kind of don't pass as people.

960
00:42:09.420 --> 00:42:10.320
Yeah.

961
00:42:10.320 --> 00:42:13.199
I think it's interesting how they talk about nestines and autons

962
00:42:13.199 --> 00:42:17.099
just as, you know, different terms and that the autons just appear

963
00:42:17.099 --> 00:42:20.340
to be the faceless gun shooting.

964
00:42:21.059 --> 00:42:22.260
Yeah, like the mannequins.

965
00:42:22.260 --> 00:42:24.059
The mannequins, the facsimiles of people.

966
00:42:24.119 --> 00:42:24.960
Yeah.

967
00:42:24.960 --> 00:42:27.539
Are they autons because it's the factory's autoplastics?

968
00:42:27.599 --> 00:42:29.820
So it's the author.

969
00:42:29.880 --> 00:42:30.119
Yes.

970
00:42:30.179 --> 00:42:32.219
And then we certainly forget it from now and forever.

971
00:42:32.579 --> 00:42:35.699
Isn't it just a shortened version of automaton?

972
00:42:35.760 --> 00:42:36.599
Oh, yeah.

973
00:42:36.599 --> 00:42:37.500
Yes, that too.

974
00:42:37.559 --> 00:42:37.860
Yeah, yeah.

975
00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:38.280
Yeah, yeah.

976
00:42:38.340 --> 00:42:40.199
But I think they get the name from autoplastics.

977
00:42:40.260 --> 00:42:44.219
Don't forget that in Terror of the Autons, they call the Daffodils

978
00:42:44.219 --> 00:42:45.000
the AutoJet.

979
00:42:45.059 --> 00:42:46.739
Oh there you go.

980
00:42:46.800 --> 00:42:50.039
It's interesting how they're replacing all the civil servants, much

981
00:42:50.039 --> 00:42:52.860
like the Silovine do.

982
00:42:52.920 --> 00:42:55.860
Yeah, all the fattest civil servants get a place.

983
00:42:55.920 --> 00:42:59.039
It's actually really funny because it just means that the Madame

984
00:42:59.039 --> 00:43:02.639
Tussords thing is much, much more boring than you would kind of

985
00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:02.940
think.

986
00:43:03.000 --> 00:43:04.019
It's like the.

987
00:43:04.079 --> 00:43:05.760
But don't you sort of walk the cabinet secretary?

988
00:43:05.760 --> 00:43:08.280
You do walk past the Kennedy and the Nixon gun.

989
00:43:08.280 --> 00:43:09.719
And then there's the cabinet secretary.

990
00:43:10.559 --> 00:43:12.599
I keep on looking.

991
00:43:12.599 --> 00:43:15.539
Every time I watch that sequence, I'm looking at, well, what are

992
00:43:15.539 --> 00:43:16.380
the actual dummies?

993
00:43:16.380 --> 00:43:18.659
and then I'm looking at the actual real people standing still and

994
00:43:18.659 --> 00:43:19.739
saying, are they going to blink?

995
00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:20.280
Are they going to move?

996
00:43:20.340 --> 00:43:21.179
It's really great.

997
00:43:21.239 --> 00:43:22.199
It's actually really well shot.

998
00:43:22.260 --> 00:43:26.039
Like trying to, it's the one moment where Liz gets scared as

999
00:43:26.039 --> 00:43:26.219
well.

1000
00:43:26.280 --> 00:43:27.780
It's a little bit of a shame.

1001
00:43:27.840 --> 00:43:29.579
She recovers quickly.

1002
00:43:29.639 --> 00:43:30.900
And I think it's really good.

1003
00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:31.800
She. see the doctor.

1004
00:43:31.860 --> 00:43:32.699
She goes, oh, doctor.

1005
00:43:32.760 --> 00:43:35.579
But it's just a little bit of a rare moment for Liz to kind of be

1006
00:43:35.579 --> 00:43:36.539
discombobulated.

1007
00:43:36.599 --> 00:43:39.659
And particularly if we're doing the Avengers where Mrs. Peel

1008
00:43:39.659 --> 00:43:43.800
doesn't even react to, you know, slowly advancing towards a

1009
00:43:43.800 --> 00:43:47.760
circular saw on a conveyor belt, she can't even kind of raise a

1010
00:43:47.760 --> 00:43:48.539
flicker of interest.

1011
00:43:48.599 --> 00:43:52.980
I just thought that was just a little bit of a shame.

1012
00:43:53.099 --> 00:43:56.820
I have to say, when I was watching Spearhead years ago on a, you

1013
00:43:56.820 --> 00:43:59.519
know, 43 centimetre colour television, it looked like all the

1014
00:43:59.519 --> 00:44:02.579
actors were completely still, but watching the restored Blu-ray on

1015
00:44:02.579 --> 00:44:10.019
a 55 inch OLED screen, they're all swaying side to side.

1016
00:44:10.079 --> 00:44:13.139
So, I mean, you would think that on 16 millimetre film, they would

1017
00:44:13.139 --> 00:44:15.599
be slightly swaying from side to side with the image anyway.

1018
00:44:15.659 --> 00:44:17.519
Yes, exactly, yes. yes.

1019
00:44:23.579 --> 00:44:29.340
So this, I think, has such an effect on the show that it is

1020
00:44:29.340 --> 00:44:35.519
repeatedly referenced when we're relaunching the show again, and

1021
00:44:35.519 --> 00:44:39.900
that will happen next season, when we relaunch the show for series

1022
00:44:39.900 --> 00:44:44.940
8, we go straight back here and do the autons again, but it

1023
00:44:44.940 --> 00:44:51.900
obviously also happens in the TV movie and in the 11th hour.

1024
00:44:51.960 --> 00:44:53.340
Have I missed any more?

1025
00:44:53.400 --> 00:44:54.840
Maybe Rose?

1026
00:44:54.900 --> 00:44:56.099
Yeah, yes.

1027
00:44:56.099 --> 00:44:57.360
Stro's sake.

1028
00:44:57.420 --> 00:44:58.139
Maybe.

1029
00:44:58.500 --> 00:45:04.139
But what specifically, what aspect specifically, what aspect

1030
00:45:04.139 --> 00:45:05.820
specifically are you referring to there?

1031
00:45:05.880 --> 00:45:08.219
I think, you know, doctor being in hospital.

1032
00:45:08.280 --> 00:45:11.219
The doctor being in hospital, but also the doctor gets his costume

1033
00:45:11.219 --> 00:45:12.360
while he's in hospital.

1034
00:45:12.360 --> 00:45:16.019
And in fact, you know, the cottage hospital, I think, in the 11th

1035
00:45:16.019 --> 00:45:20.099
hour is just so definitely a reference to it, even in the look, the

1036
00:45:20.099 --> 00:45:23.099
look of it from the outside, the fact that it has a very kind of

1037
00:45:23.099 --> 00:45:27.539
mid-20th century vibe, sort of generally, and it is very much

1038
00:45:27.539 --> 00:45:29.460
going back to what works.

1039
00:45:29.519 --> 00:45:33.360
And what Moffat does is he takes that scene where the doctor gets

1040
00:45:33.360 --> 00:45:38.039
his costume and turns it into the kind of Aristaea for the doctor

1041
00:45:38.039 --> 00:45:42.539
the big giant hero moment, is where he rejects the tie and puts

1042
00:45:42.539 --> 00:45:45.780
the bow tie on and that suddenly he's the doctor.

1043
00:45:45.840 --> 00:45:49.739
Yeah, I think certainly the aspect of it sort of touched on before

1044
00:45:49.739 --> 00:45:51.719
about, you know, things like Castra Valve is that it certainly

1045
00:45:51.719 --> 00:45:54.719
becomes a template for how you introduce a U doctor, where they

1046
00:45:54.719 --> 00:46:00.119
are unconscious, incapacitated, deranged, whatever it is, for at

1047
00:46:00.119 --> 00:46:01.739
least a good part of the story.

1048
00:46:01.800 --> 00:46:04.860
The only one that's not like that really is robot, like after the

1049
00:46:04.860 --> 00:46:07.019
after he's changed all his outfits and never said one, he's

1050
00:46:07.019 --> 00:46:09.059
basically the doctor from then on in robot.

1051
00:46:09.119 --> 00:46:12.420
Whereas in cash revolver in twin dilemma in Time the Rani, even in

1052
00:46:12.420 --> 00:46:14.699
the telly movie and so on like that, and certainly in the 11th

1053
00:46:14.699 --> 00:46:18.239
hour, he's still discombobulated through at least sort of 60 or 70

1054
00:46:18.239 --> 00:46:19.679
of it, certainly in the Christmas invasion.

1055
00:46:19.739 --> 00:46:22.920
Well, I mean, I think I think what we do with the doctor in the

1056
00:46:22.920 --> 00:46:25.860
11th hour is that he's actually always with it, but he doesn't

1057
00:46:25.860 --> 00:46:27.480
have the TARDIS or the Sonic screwdriver.

1058
00:46:27.539 --> 00:46:31.260
He doesn't have a bit of sort of weird post-regeneration thing.

1059
00:46:31.320 --> 00:46:33.599
Because it actually turns out that's a bad idea.

1060
00:46:33.659 --> 00:46:36.840
And Russell abandoned it for Shooty, didn't he?

1061
00:46:36.900 --> 00:46:38.340
He just went, actually, we're not doing that.

1062
00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:40.800
And he abandoned it for David Tennant.

1063
00:46:40.920 --> 00:46:43.440
Yeah, as he should, it should have been abandoned a long time

1064
00:46:43.440 --> 00:46:43.679
ago.

1065
00:46:43.739 --> 00:46:44.219
Yeah, really.

1066
00:46:44.280 --> 00:46:46.199
You had maybe 5 minutes, but then...

1067
00:46:46.199 --> 00:46:48.599
I mean, I think you could do that when the doctor was changing

1068
00:46:48.599 --> 00:46:50.460
every 7 years, but not every 3 seasons.

1069
00:46:50.579 --> 00:46:51.960
Exactly, exactly.

1070
00:46:52.019 --> 00:46:52.980
It becomes tiresome.

1071
00:46:53.039 --> 00:46:55.199
Well, and it's just sort of slightly dumb.

1072
00:46:55.260 --> 00:46:56.880
I mean, you want to see the new doctor.

1073
00:46:56.940 --> 00:46:59.699
And so what exactly is the purpose of this?

1074
00:46:59.760 --> 00:47:03.539
And the 1st time they do it, they don't do it with Troughton at

1075
00:47:03.539 --> 00:47:03.780
all.

1076
00:47:03.840 --> 00:47:08.760
He gets up and he's obnoxious and kind of off putting and things

1077
00:47:08.760 --> 00:47:11.219
but he's not deranged in any way.

1078
00:47:11.280 --> 00:47:14.579
I think it's a difference when you build a regeneration story or

1079
00:47:14.579 --> 00:47:18.239
the 1st story of a new doctor around the fact that the doctor has

1080
00:47:18.239 --> 00:47:21.300
changed or else just change him and parachute him into a story.

1081
00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:22.920
That's your 2 viable models.

1082
00:47:22.980 --> 00:47:25.679
Power of the Daleks, they change him and parachutes him in, robot

1083
00:47:25.679 --> 00:47:26.579
the same thing.

1084
00:47:26.639 --> 00:47:31.860
Whereas Castravalva, Spearhead, I think the Christmas invasion

1085
00:47:31.860 --> 00:47:35.159
deep breath, certainly is built around the changing doctor.

1086
00:47:35.219 --> 00:47:40.860
I have to say, though, that we kind of decided last week that this

1087
00:47:40.860 --> 00:47:44.460
is a very definite relaunch for the doctor in Power of the Daleks

1088
00:47:44.460 --> 00:47:47.639
and a relaunch for the Daleks, that there's a real sense in which

1089
00:47:47.639 --> 00:47:51.599
we're now doing a new show and we're self-consciously doing that.

1090
00:47:51.599 --> 00:47:55.500
And the way that the doctor talks about Hartnell's doctor in the

1091
00:47:55.500 --> 00:47:59.639
3rd person, the way that he becomes a collection of artefacts in

1092
00:47:59.639 --> 00:48:04.019
the chest, the 500-year diary, all of those things serve to

1093
00:48:04.019 --> 00:48:05.880
distance us from the previous doctor.

1094
00:48:05.940 --> 00:48:09.119
Absolutely, but all of that happens in basically 2 scenes.

1095
00:48:09.179 --> 00:48:10.860
And then you're on with the story.

1096
00:48:11.340 --> 00:48:13.860
The other aspect of the relaunch, though.

1097
00:48:13.920 --> 00:48:16.320
I mean, it's easy to sort of just pick up on the launches of new

1098
00:48:16.320 --> 00:48:16.739
doctors.

1099
00:48:16.800 --> 00:48:20.460
But other relaunches, things like leisure hive, even though script

1100
00:48:20.460 --> 00:48:23.219
wise, it is still a kind of a 7 season 17 script.

1101
00:48:23.280 --> 00:48:25.199
There are other aspects of it that after you get that long

1102
00:48:25.199 --> 00:48:28.079
Brighton Beach scene where the doctor reminded it really get

1103
00:48:28.079 --> 00:48:30.300
involved in the story for a while that you get and you get that in

1104
00:48:30.300 --> 00:48:31.679
spearhead and rose as well.

1105
00:48:31.739 --> 00:48:34.079
You know, all this stuff is happening before the doctor arrives.

1106
00:48:34.139 --> 00:48:37.139
Church on Ruby Row, all this stuff is happening before the doctor

1107
00:48:37.139 --> 00:48:37.920
actually arrives.

1108
00:48:37.980 --> 00:48:41.940
So the relaunches, in some respects, make the doctor absent, or at

1109
00:48:41.940 --> 00:48:44.940
least not as engaged in the story for a bit longer, like you're

1110
00:48:44.940 --> 00:48:47.280
introduced to all these other people, and then, I suppose, through

1111
00:48:47.280 --> 00:48:49.380
their eyes that you're introduced to the doctor.

1112
00:48:49.440 --> 00:48:54.360
And that tried and true method of making the show reassuringly

1113
00:48:54.360 --> 00:48:55.860
familiar when the doctor changes.

1114
00:48:55.920 --> 00:48:58.619
People always talk about it in reference to robot, and it happens

1115
00:48:58.619 --> 00:48:59.699
in deep breath as well.

1116
00:48:59.760 --> 00:49:03.539
I think this is the most potent example of it.

1117
00:49:03.599 --> 00:49:06.659
Like you are reassured that this is the same program, even though

1118
00:49:06.659 --> 00:49:09.420
it's gone to colour, even though it's a shorter season, even

1119
00:49:09.420 --> 00:49:12.719
though there's a new companion, even though many other things.

1120
00:49:12.780 --> 00:49:16.019
Even though it's now made on film for some reason, rather than on

1121
00:49:16.019 --> 00:49:19.380
videotape, you're reassured by the fact that the brigadier is

1122
00:49:19.380 --> 00:49:19.619
there.

1123
00:49:19.679 --> 00:49:21.659
And that is a key thing about it.

1124
00:49:21.719 --> 00:49:25.380
And the thing that's really interesting is how close we might have

1125
00:49:25.380 --> 00:49:28.019
come to not even having the brigadier, which would have made this

1126
00:49:28.019 --> 00:49:30.719
a vastly different relaunch for the show.

1127
00:49:30.780 --> 00:49:34.800
That's interesting because like if he hadn't been there.

1128
00:49:34.860 --> 00:49:38.699
This would have been like Rose, everybody's new.

1129
00:49:38.760 --> 00:49:43.800
And in this season, it's the only season, in terms of enemies

1130
00:49:43.800 --> 00:49:47.039
there's no recurring villains, right?

1131
00:49:47.099 --> 00:49:49.139
Series one, series seven.

1132
00:49:49.199 --> 00:49:52.440
Series 13 has it as well, but you still got the same leads and you

1133
00:49:52.440 --> 00:49:55.139
still got unit in the background and all that sort of thing.

1134
00:49:55.320 --> 00:49:56.760
The key to time has it.

1135
00:49:56.820 --> 00:49:59.880
But again, you've still got Tom Baker and you've got canine.

1136
00:49:59.940 --> 00:50:04.920
So this is as close as it gets to being like Rose or even like the

1137
00:50:04.920 --> 00:50:06.960
11th hour where everybody's new.

1138
00:50:07.079 --> 00:50:10.679
It's also, as you said before, I think Nathan, it was you.

1139
00:50:10.739 --> 00:50:12.059
It's an ensemble show now.

1140
00:50:12.119 --> 00:50:14.460
There are more characters and I think it becomes even more an

1141
00:50:14.460 --> 00:50:15.900
ensemble in season eight.

1142
00:50:15.960 --> 00:50:18.000
The other thing that makes it better and it's one of the reasons

1143
00:50:18.000 --> 00:50:20.219
why I love the classic series, but I think you particularly start

1144
00:50:20.219 --> 00:50:24.719
to get from the per we era onwards is interesting and meaningful

1145
00:50:24.719 --> 00:50:28.019
scenes that don't involve the doctor or any of his immediate

1146
00:50:28.019 --> 00:50:28.619
friends.

1147
00:50:28.679 --> 00:50:31.500
Yes, I'm thinking of Saudi rians and things like that, but there's

1148
00:50:31.500 --> 00:50:32.760
loads of scenes in this.

1149
00:50:32.820 --> 00:50:36.599
And not just not just with Channing and Hibbet and so on.

1150
00:50:36.659 --> 00:50:38.820
But, you know, with the doctor in the hospital and so on.

1151
00:50:38.880 --> 00:50:42.059
And the media pack in the lobby talking about what's going on.

1152
00:50:42.119 --> 00:50:44.280
Ransom going to visit.

1153
00:50:44.280 --> 00:50:45.480
Ransom going to visit.

1154
00:50:45.539 --> 00:50:46.079
Yeah, exactly.

1155
00:50:46.139 --> 00:50:47.519
You don't get that.

1156
00:50:47.579 --> 00:50:49.559
You don't get the model format.

1157
00:50:49.619 --> 00:50:49.980
Yeah, exactly.

1158
00:50:50.039 --> 00:50:50.639
The Celies.

1159
00:50:50.699 --> 00:50:52.980
There's no allowance for that in the modern form of the show, very

1160
00:50:52.980 --> 00:50:53.760
little allowance for that.

1161
00:50:53.820 --> 00:50:56.460
And there's not really that much of that happening up to this

1162
00:50:56.460 --> 00:50:57.719
point either, really.

1163
00:50:57.780 --> 00:51:00.900
It's also the way that the show usually starts in the black and

1164
00:51:00.900 --> 00:51:03.780
white years, you will invariably open with the TARDIS

1165
00:51:03.780 --> 00:51:06.960
materialising or the doctor and his companions inside the TARDIS

1166
00:51:06.960 --> 00:51:10.139
whereas what Bob Holmes does is he starts off in the world in the

1167
00:51:10.139 --> 00:51:13.139
crotons, and then he advances that in the space pirates, you go

1168
00:51:13.139 --> 00:51:16.440
for 9 minutes without the doctor in the show.

1169
00:51:16.440 --> 00:51:18.239
And he does the same thing here.

1170
00:51:18.300 --> 00:51:21.840
And I think it's taking it away from children's drama where you're

1171
00:51:21.840 --> 00:51:25.199
focussing on the protagonist and taking it towards adult drama

1172
00:51:25.199 --> 00:51:27.719
where you're focussing on the world that the protagonists are in.

1173
00:51:27.780 --> 00:51:30.300
And in fact, if I can expand on that.

1174
00:51:30.360 --> 00:51:33.780
That is the language, the dramatic language that I was learning

1175
00:51:33.780 --> 00:51:36.059
from the show when I was watching it because all the stuff we were

1176
00:51:36.059 --> 00:51:37.559
watching started in that way.

1177
00:51:37.619 --> 00:51:40.860
The 1st scene would almost always, not always, would almost always

1178
00:51:40.860 --> 00:51:43.019
be where the story is going to be set.

1179
00:51:43.139 --> 00:51:46.619
And I was, that's one of the reasons why I love the unquiet dead

1180
00:51:46.619 --> 00:51:50.460
because suddenly in the new season, this new version of the show

1181
00:51:50.460 --> 00:51:53.699
an episode was starting, the way I felt it should start, which is

1182
00:51:53.699 --> 00:51:57.599
here we are in 18, whatever it is, Cardiff, rather than, you know

1183
00:51:57.599 --> 00:51:59.039
the doctor and Rose in the Tartars.

1184
00:52:12.239 --> 00:52:14.880
Well, that's all the time we have for this week.

1185
00:52:14.940 --> 00:52:18.900
We'll be back again next week, or in just short of a year's time

1186
00:52:18.900 --> 00:52:23.159
to watch everyone scramble to relaunch the show again in Terror of

1187
00:52:23.159 --> 00:52:23.940
the Autons?

1188
00:52:24.059 --> 00:52:28.019
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

1189
00:52:28.019 --> 00:52:31.860
and you can keep up with us on our website, 500yearDiary.com, where

1190
00:52:31.860 --> 00:52:35.039
you'll find our social media links as well as links to all of our

1191
00:52:35.039 --> 00:52:39.360
other podcasts, including our other Doctor Who podcasts, flights

1192
00:52:39.360 --> 00:52:42.539
through entirety, and the 2nd great and bountiful Human Empire.

1193
00:52:43.320 --> 00:52:47.699
Until next time, remember that it's not an effective guard dog, if

1194
00:52:47.699 --> 00:52:51.239
it's just a guy in the next room saying arf a bunch of times.

1195
00:52:51.360 --> 00:52:53.820
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1196
00:52:53.880 --> 00:52:55.139
See you soon.

1197
00:52:55.199 --> 00:52:55.800
Good night.

1198
00:52:55.860 --> 00:52:56.579
Bye for now.

1199
00:53:07.019 --> 00:53:11.880
That was 500 Year Diary, starring Todd Bealby, Nathan Bottomley

1200
00:53:11.880 --> 00:53:13.320
Peter Griffith, and Simon Moore.

1201
00:53:13.380 --> 00:53:15.900
The theme was composed by Cameron Lamb.

1202
00:53:15.960 --> 00:53:19.619
This episode, The Pertwee I have in my head, was recorded on the

1203
00:53:19.619 --> 00:53:23.340
17th of March 2024 and released on the 21st of April.

1204
00:53:23.400 --> 00:53:27.300
Listeners will be pleased to learn that about a week after this

1205
00:53:27.300 --> 00:53:31.139
recording, Todd Bealby and Ash Urquhart were successfully married

1206
00:53:31.139 --> 00:53:35.579
and more than a month later, Todd has, as far as we know, not

1207
00:53:35.579 --> 00:53:38.940
attempted to bring any mysterious alien artefacts into the house.

1208
00:53:51.960 --> 00:53:53.699
I think that's good.

1209
00:53:53.699 --> 00:53:54.179
I think that's good.

1210
00:53:54.599 --> 00:53:55.559
What do you think?

1211
00:53:55.679 --> 00:53:56.219
Yep.

1212
00:53:56.699 --> 00:54:01.860
All right, tune in next week for us to throw all of this away and

1213
00:54:01.860 --> 00:54:02.940
become terribly silly.

1214
00:54:03.000 --> 00:54:04.500
That's not terribly serious.

1215
00:54:04.500 --> 00:54:06.539
I love Terra Vior.

1216
00:54:06.599 --> 00:54:08.400
I think it's good, but I love what it does to the show.

1217
00:54:08.460 --> 00:54:11.699
But also, I think I think I don't think season 7 is as serious as

1218
00:54:11.699 --> 00:54:12.000
all that.

1219
00:54:12.059 --> 00:54:15.179
I just think of the fact that the concepts which underline all the

1220
00:54:15.179 --> 00:54:17.519
stories are more are a bit more hardcore.

1221
00:54:17.579 --> 00:54:20.460
Well, I think we'll talk about that.

1222
00:54:20.519 --> 00:54:22.920
Peter, why don't you hang up and stop your recording?

1223
00:54:22.980 --> 00:54:26.340
We'll go and do a prisoner exchange.

1224
00:54:26.340 --> 00:54:30.420
And a quick wee, a patented quick wee.

1225
00:54:30.480 --> 00:54:32.340
And I'll see you all.

1226
00:54:32.340 --> 00:54:34.860
On Saturday. on Saturday.

1227
00:54:38.280 --> 00:54:39.900
All right, okay.

1228
00:54:39.960 --> 00:54:40.559
We'll hang up.

1229
00:54:40.619 --> 00:54:41.400
We'll call you in a sec.

1230
00:54:41.519 --> 00:54:43.079
Press stop.